D&D Scape.... what's the big deal?
Posted January 1st, 2010 at 03:02 AM by Melwing17
Updated January 1st, 2010 at 03:51 AM by Melwing17
Updated January 1st, 2010 at 03:51 AM by Melwing17
So, I could mean "what's the big deal?" as in "Why are people so upset with mixing D&D and Heroscape?". Because I am on the "any Heroscape is good Heroscape" side of things. So remember that when reading the rest of this. I had impressions (and so did others, based on the things I see around the forums/blogs) that Master Set 3 was really going to have a D&D flavor- a dungeon crawl! Frigging sweet!
Instead it's recycled miniatures (of course we've known that for a while), black tiles that act just like jungle pieces, and a scenario just like at the end of every other rulebook- except that if a figure dies, he doesn't move on to the next 'room' (read: the next scenario map). It's "Heroscape Master Set 3: A Series Of Gray Maps". I suppose I just got the wrong impression, but I'm baffled. People were talking about how it will change/add to the tournament landscape/structure, etc... and all I can think after reading the rulebook is... how? What is in this box that we didn't have before?
"Dungeon Adventure" - It's just the same as the other rulebooks' scenarios. Except if you lose a figure, you don't get him on the next map.
"Shadow Tiles" - Enhanced, level 0 jungle brush without the cool scenery.
"Uncommon Heroes" - Okay. Not revolutionary, but a good rules addition.
"Treasure Glyphs" - I'm glad they were added, but this is just the way glyphs should have worked from the beginning. By that I mean mobile. "Traps" are nice, but again- we already had a pit trap, etc- the concept was already in the game.
"Dungeon Tiles" - Yay, monotone.
I sincerely hope I'm missing something, because I thought we were getting a new way to play Heroscape, not just a new master set.
Oh, and one unreasonable gripe- walls. Give me walls. It wouldn't be hard. But I understand it would be costly and therefore bad for the product line. I get it. But it'd be nice.
Instead it's recycled miniatures (of course we've known that for a while), black tiles that act just like jungle pieces, and a scenario just like at the end of every other rulebook- except that if a figure dies, he doesn't move on to the next 'room' (read: the next scenario map). It's "Heroscape Master Set 3: A Series Of Gray Maps". I suppose I just got the wrong impression, but I'm baffled. People were talking about how it will change/add to the tournament landscape/structure, etc... and all I can think after reading the rulebook is... how? What is in this box that we didn't have before?
"Dungeon Adventure" - It's just the same as the other rulebooks' scenarios. Except if you lose a figure, you don't get him on the next map.
"Shadow Tiles" - Enhanced, level 0 jungle brush without the cool scenery.
"Uncommon Heroes" - Okay. Not revolutionary, but a good rules addition.
"Treasure Glyphs" - I'm glad they were added, but this is just the way glyphs should have worked from the beginning. By that I mean mobile. "Traps" are nice, but again- we already had a pit trap, etc- the concept was already in the game.
"Dungeon Tiles" - Yay, monotone.
I sincerely hope I'm missing something, because I thought we were getting a new way to play Heroscape, not just a new master set.
Oh, and one unreasonable gripe- walls. Give me walls. It wouldn't be hard. But I understand it would be costly and therefore bad for the product line. I get it. But it'd be nice.
Comments 8
Total Comments 8
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Heh. Some people complain that this set changes too much, others that it doesn't go far enough.
Shadow spaces are slightly different than Jungle, even discounting any powers related to Jungle or Shadows, because they also confer their defense bonus against adjacent attacks. You can also pass through them and they have a smaller area of effect per tile. (A lone jungle piece affects 6 hexes, while a shadow only affects itself). Uncommon heroes and Treasure glyphs are simple rules additions that don't feel that different from classic scape, but I think they have far reaching implications. Uncommon heroes give an extra avenue to explore big stuff with multiple lives in official releases and people's customs. Treasure glyphs give a cool way to spice up home scenarios and potentially affect what people bring to tournaments as well (i.e. more unique/uncommon heroes). I think any one or two of these terrain changes are similar to SotM or a small expansion, but putting them all together makes for a bigger change than usual from one box. Plus, it has some potential to draw in new players who didn't like the genre mishmash of the first 5 years of scape. It's hard to look at the D&D custom scenarios or figures sections without finding several new members brought in by the D&D name already. |
Posted January 1st, 2010 at 01:23 PM by Jexik
Updated January 1st, 2010 at 01:30 PM by Jexik |
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Oh, absolutely. I'm more meaning that it didn't go far enough as far as what I was expecting from the hype. I should have just listened to what Grungebob and them were saying all along- that it's very much still Heroscape. Good points on the shadow tiles- the jungle affecting 6 hexes is something I hadn't considered.
I'm very happy about Master Set 3. It just isn't D&D Scape, as far as I'm concerned. But the name being there doesn't bother me- like you said, it can only bring more people in. |
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Posted January 1st, 2010 at 03:36 PM by Melwing17
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Why isn't it "D&D scape"? What must it be to be D&D scape? Why does it need to be more than an incremental change from existing Heroscape in order to allow for some D&D flavor in the scenarios?
I agree that I don't anticipate this will drastically change the tournament landscape. People can make more variants for tournament play, but that's just accelerating a trend we've already seen. |
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Posted January 1st, 2010 at 07:03 PM by dok
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Well, Dok, it's because it doesn't have anything related to Dungeons and Dragons gameplay. There's no cooperative (as in not competitive) gameplay rules, no character progression... and, there's all of one 'Dungeon Adventure'.
There is certainly "some D&D flavor", indeed. But only to draw new folks in and save money by using existing sculpts, it seems (again, I stess that this is not bad- I still am very glad and supportive of it). I was just expecting a new gameplay option, and that just isn't present.  |
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Posted January 2nd, 2010 at 12:25 AM by Melwing17
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I'd argue that the treasure glyphs are an interesting innovation that does change gameplay.
Aside from that... sure, it's just a hero pack with some cool new terrain that has a thematic link to D&D. I'm fine with that. |
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Posted January 2nd, 2010 at 03:52 PM by dok
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I am fine with that too. Also, I have retained a bit of my imagination.
 I am holding off building a mega map untill my DnD sets arrive so that I may incorporate the new scape goodness into it. Thank the good lord for those ten dollar castles... |
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Posted January 3rd, 2010 at 06:22 PM by J4Jandar
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"There's no cooperative (as in not competitive) gameplay rules"
I too was hoping there would be a way to have each hero controlled by a different player, vs a Dungeon Master, as I feel DnD would work (I don't know for sure, I've never played any DnD) I think this would make for a cool variant, but would wind up feeling far less like Heroscape in a way that would cause far more people to complain |
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Posted January 3rd, 2010 at 11:33 PM by A_Train
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A duengon crawl would be nice. Hopefully there will be expansion sets so we could have a full crawl. Having more charecters means individual squads of heros!
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Posted January 6th, 2010 at 08:27 PM by miantanomo
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Recent Blog Entries by Melwing17
- D&D Heroscape rant, part 2 (January 8th, 2010)
- D&D Scape.... what's the big deal? (January 1st, 2010)
- Unlikely Tournament Winner (December 26th, 2009)
- Let's go typing! (December 9th, 2009)
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