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Pumpkin_King
May 11th, 2020, 05:58 PM
The Book of Vlad III

Arena of the Valkyrie Master Set

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567019875004842004/image0.jpg?width=226&height=301

Printer-Friendly PDF


Species = Human
Unique Hero
Class = Warlord
Personality = Ruthless
SIZE HEIGHT

LIFE = 5
MOVE 5 / BASIC
RANGE 1 / BASIC
ATTACK 4 / BASIC
DEFENSE 4 / BASIC

90 POINTS


BRUTALITY
When Vlad or an adjacent figure with a Range of 1 attacks, if Vlad has destroyed at least 1 figure this round, the attacking figure adds 1 to their attack.

CRUELTY 13
After moving and before attacking, choose any small or medium figure adjacent to Vlad III. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, the defending figure cannot roll defense dice if attacked by Vlad III this turn.

The figure used for this unit is


Character Bio:


-Rulings and Clarifications-
TBA

-Combinations and Synergies-

Synergy Benefits Received
TBA

Synergy Benefits Offered
TBA

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
TBA


https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567019875004842004/image0.jpg?width=226&height=301[/QUOTE]

Owlman
May 11th, 2020, 09:12 PM
https://i.postimg.cc/PxStkNwN/Sorin-Esenwein.jpg

Here's a card I made a way back. I personally love his current name "Sorin" (Not really big on the eternal thirst part), and I'm all for him to being an Esenwein!

(Or perhaps he could be a rival Vampire, mebbe one who fights for Vydar, since Vydar's had a little Undead too!)

Let's bounce idea's around, guys! :D

Astroking112
May 11th, 2020, 10:45 PM
Just popping in to offer some thoughts on Sorin!

I get that the sculpt looks like a vampire, but he's one of the few historical opportunities that we have in this box, so I wanted to bring up my idea of turning him into Vlad the Impaler again. This was the rough draft that I posted in the Pre-Brainstorming Thread about a year ago, for reference:

Vlad III

Human
Unique Hero
Count
Cruel

4 Life
5 Move
1 Range
3 Attack
4 Defense
70-90 Points

Paralyzing Stare 13
After moving and before attacking, choose any small or medium figure adjacent to Vlad III. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, the defending figure cannot roll defense dice if attacked by Vlad III this turn.

Gore
If Vlad III inflicts one or more wounds on a Unique Hero with a normal attack, you must place 1 additional wound marker on the defending figure's Army Card.

The idea is that Gore symbolizes the torture and cruelty that Vlad was known for without fiddling with an aura of fear or other complex mechanics, and Paralyzing Stare is just downright nasty to heroes with that combo. Lower stats allow for a lower point total, too, since the majority of our units are hovering around 100 points right now.

Anyway, I just wanted to bring up the possibility of a take on Vlad again in case the idea was buried by the passage of time. Given that Vlad III inspired the tale of Dracula, I think that the pale-skinned Sorin looks like a great opportunity for a loose take on the character.

Feel free to pick anything out of that draft if it sticks. I look forward to seeing what y'all come up with in any case. :)

Owlman
May 11th, 2020, 11:08 PM
Nice idea! Tbh, I really feel he should be a vampire, and at the bery least have the Lifedrain ability, especially since his face is super pale, too. Unless we did a historical/fiction version, call him "Vladmir Dracula" perhaps...? Like he's back from the grave hundreds of yrs later!

EDIT: I really like that Paralyzing power. Vampire 101.

Owlman
May 11th, 2020, 11:16 PM
What about something like this?

https://i.postimg.cc/44DBvGyh/Vladmir-Dracula.jpg


OORrrr....Instead of "Whirlwind assault", if we really wanna go full out Dracula, how about something like this:

Superhuman Assault: After moving, when Vladmir Dracula makes an attack, he may continue to use the rest of his movement, if any, after the attack resolves. (Vladmir Dracula must legally be able to end his movement.) Or something like that...that would jack up the price though.


:evilgrin:

flameslayer93
May 12th, 2020, 01:48 AM
Sorin doesn’t need to be a vampire. We still have a very good vampire oppurtunity in Lily.

Zetsubo
May 12th, 2020, 02:56 AM
My initial thoughts were a Vydar Vampire, but that's more of a Sorin conversion. I think we should stay away from making him a vampire (not a fan of Lily as a vampire either, but that's not up to me) to make him something unique.

I like the idea of basing him off of Vladimir "Dracula" Tepes, but maybe not directly turning him into the historical figure. A brutal but effective warlord that demoralizes his enemy.

Heroscaper Guy
May 12th, 2020, 03:07 AM
I mean honestly after trying to think on theme all day, the best way to represent stakes outside of markers (which I dont think is the way to go), is just have the enemy team be horrified and take a bit to go through. Just change the name of the air elys Vortex power. Then maybe do like a brutal leader or something like that and have where once a round you can sacrifice a figure to give a boost to all figures on that army card (for the turn maybe).

flameslayer93
May 12th, 2020, 10:10 AM
I can see him being a particularly brutal warlord. Nothing wrong with that.

Gore + Attack Aura 1 (from Finn/Gilbert) makes sense for a Master Set, since it's simple and effectively portrays a jerk of a man. It also shouldn't tread too much on MDG/Finn/Gilbert's turf because they all have secondary purposes that really make them distinct.

One special note about him being a vampire though, as Astroking112 over in the discord pointed out*, he will need to sufficiently different from existing vampires in scape. Otherwise it will just end up feeling like a Cyprien clone, which nobody really wants.

Of the 'Scape Vamps, we have these themes:
Full Aggro: Cyprien
Cheerleader: Sonya
Abomination/Filler: Marcu
Summoner: Iskra
Necromancer: Nicholas

Nicholas ties a bit into Cyprien's aggro territory with overextend, but doesn't get 2 "attacks" per turn like Cyp does. When I originally drafted a design for the mini, I designed him with undead supremacy (+1 to all undead d20 rolls) and a ranged special attack (hellfire). Since that scheme probably isn't needed in this MS, I won't propose it should be an option. We're already going to have ranged heroes, and probably at least 1 more special attacking unique hero.

*I accept no liability for mistaking who said this. :p

Owlman
May 12th, 2020, 11:48 AM
Ok, lemme take another stab at a vampire and also warlord human type figure here...be back soon! :)

Owlman
May 12th, 2020, 07:13 PM
Here's what I got:

https://i.postimg.cc/DyVnFvkB/Vlad-Tepes-Dracula.jpg

Ruthless Warlord
Once per Round, when a Squad figure you control who follows Utgar misses a normal attack roll within 8 clear sight spaces of Vlad Tepes Dracula, you may choose to immediately destroy that Squad figure. If you do, all other figures you control who follow Utgar may add +1 to their attack dice for the remainder of the Round.

Terrifying Presence
All Squad figures you control within 4 spaces and clear sight of Vlad Tepes Dracula subtract 1 from their defense dice.

My thinking was make him a good bargain for his points, but at the same time there's a drawback if you keep Squad figures behind to guard him.

Should we perhaps make it so any Squad figure can be destroyed, or just Utgar figures? Also not sure of his point cost either for what he does right now. 110 is just a guess. He's a warlord so the romans will have a filed day with him lol

Owlman
May 12th, 2020, 07:19 PM
And here's an undead version of him too, which I like a little better, tbh:

https://i.postimg.cc/rFtsCZcY/Vlad-Tepes-Dracula-1.jpg

(We could make this a warlord too, either way instead of vampire)

NecroBlade
May 12th, 2020, 09:36 PM
I'm behind the historical Vlad angle here. Paralyzing Stare, Gore (Cruelty), and Ruthless Warlord are all soli ideas.

Owlman
May 12th, 2020, 11:35 PM
I'm behind the historical Vlad angle here. Paralyzing Stare, Gore (Cruelty), and Ruthless Warlord are all soli ideas.

What about this for a Gore type power:

"If an opposing figure wounded/destroyed a figure you control during their previous turn, you may roll the 20 sided die. On a 1-12, nothing happens, on a 13 or higher choose a different opposing figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Vlad, and give them 1 wound."

Something to reflect he was utterly ruthless, attacking another figure innocent instead of the figure who wounded/destroyed someone?

flameslayer93
May 13th, 2020, 07:45 AM
A ranged Gore would be cool if he had some way to facilitate range. I think we just need to temper the ideas with some simplicity and we'll be right where we need him to be.

Owlman
May 13th, 2020, 11:08 AM
A ranged Gore would be cool if he had some way to facilitate range. I think we just need to temper the ideas with some simplicity and we'll be right where we need him to be.


Define facilitate range? He's wielding a sword, I don't think he should any ranged attack, if that's what you're implying. Little confused, lol! (Or mebbe my power just needs better wording?)

Confred
May 13th, 2020, 11:09 AM
Posture reminds me of Izumi Samurai

flameslayer93
May 13th, 2020, 11:18 AM
A ranged Gore would be cool if he had some way to facilitate range. I think we just need to temper the ideas with some simplicity and we'll be right where we need him to be.


Define facilitate range? He's wielding a sword, I don't think he should any ranged attack, if that's what you're implying. Little confused, lol! (Or mebbe my power just needs better wording?)


Ah, I misread something. Carry on.

Owlman
May 13th, 2020, 12:00 PM
A ranged Gore would be cool if he had some way to facilitate range. I think we just need to temper the ideas with some simplicity and we'll be right where we need him to be.


Define facilitate range? He's wielding a sword, I don't think he should any ranged attack, if that's what you're implying. Little confused, lol! (Or mebbe my power just needs better wording?)


Ah, I misread something. Carry on.

Aight, I was gonna keep crankin out cards, but its a lotta' work, lol! :P

another rough draft:

Vlad Tepes Dracula

Life: 5
move: 5
range: 1
attack: 4
defense: 3

Ruthless Warlord:

Once per Round, when a Squad figure you control who Follows Utgar misses a normal attack roll within 8 clear sight spaces of Vlad, you may immediately destroy that Squad figure. If you do, all other figures you control who follow Utgar may roll 1 additional attack die for the remainder of the Round.

Terrifying Presence:

All Squad figures you control within 2 clear sight spaces of Vlad roll -1 less defense die.

Legendary Cruelty/Gore:

Once per Round(?), if an opposing figure destroys a figure you control, and is within (6-8?) clear sight spaces of Vlad, you may give 1 wound to a different opposing figure adjacent to it. Both opposing figures must be within line of sight of Vlad.

Zetsubo
May 13th, 2020, 04:16 PM
Reducing defense seems to be pretty common in this set with On Nixilis and possibly Nahiri. I don't want to overuse a neat gimmick. Instead of showing fear by lowering defense, what about having enemies run away?

WAVE OF FEAR
You may roll the d20. On a roll of ~9 or higher, you may move all opponents adjacent squad figures 2 spaces each and must end farther away from Sorin. Figures moved won't take LEA.


Basically the anti gravity pull only for opponents cowardly squads?

Owlman
May 13th, 2020, 04:27 PM
Reducing defense seems to be pretty common in this set with On Nixilis and possibly Nahiri. I don't want to overuse a neat gimmick. Instead of showing fear by lowering defense, what about having enemies run away?

WAVE OF FEAR
You may roll the d20. On a roll of ~9 or higher, you may move all opponents adjacent squad figures 2 spaces each and must end farther away from Sorin. Figures moved won't take LEA.


Basically the anti gravity pull only for opponents cowardly squads?

I can get behind the running away part! Although all opposing squad figures is a bit powerful I feel, and I like how if you have your own squad figures too close, there are consequences. How about something like:

Terrifying Presence: After taking a turn with Vlad, you must roll the 20 sided die. On a 1-8, nothing happens. On a 9 or higher, you must choose up to 2 Squad figures within 2 clear sight spaces. Move the chosen figures up to 2 spaces each. Figures moved in this way never take a leaving engagement attack.

Owlman
May 13th, 2020, 04:33 PM
Example:

https://i.postimg.cc/VNG8M0s1/Vlad.jpg

NecroBlade
May 13th, 2020, 10:14 PM
There's also a lot of outside-the-norm movement already happening.

Paralyzing Stare 13
After moving and before attacking, choose any small or medium figure adjacent to Vlad III. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, the defending figure cannot roll defense dice if attacked by Vlad III this turn.

Gore
If Vlad III inflicts one or more wounds on a Unique Hero with a normal attack, you must place 1 additional wound marker on the defending figure's Army Card.

Ruthless Warlord
Once per Round, when a Squad figure you control who follows Utgar misses a normal attack roll within 8 clear sight spaces of Vlad Tepes Dracula, you may choose to immediately destroy that Squad figure. If you do, all other figures you control who follow Utgar may add +1 to their attack dice for the remainder of the Round.

My favorite ideas so far. And something like a 5L, 5M, 1R, 3/4A, 3/4D stat line. PS is a nice reusable power to give him some punch. Same with Gore, which I may be in favor of renaming Cruelty for the theme. RW is a nice thematic cheerleader power, and if the Phoenixes ended up in Utgar with some kind of rebirth power, that could be fun synergy (alternatively drop the general restriction.

Heroscaper Guy
May 13th, 2020, 10:19 PM
I think not doing any complicated things, such as out of turn movements (think omegacron, scatter, etc), is the best way to go if we want integration with regular scape. It causes all kinds of problems if figures die or timing issues.

Owlman
May 13th, 2020, 10:27 PM
There's also a lot of outside-the-norm movement already happening.

Paralyzing Stare 13
After moving and before attacking, choose any small or medium figure adjacent to Vlad III. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, the defending figure cannot roll defense dice if attacked by Vlad III this turn.

Gore
If Vlad III inflicts one or more wounds on a Unique Hero with a normal attack, you must place 1 additional wound marker on the defending figure's Army Card.

Ruthless Warlord
Once per Round, when a Squad figure you control who follows Utgar misses a normal attack roll within 8 clear sight spaces of Vlad Tepes Dracula, you may choose to immediately destroy that Squad figure. If you do, all other figures you control who follow Utgar may add +1 to their attack dice for the remainder of the Round.

My favorite ideas so far. And something like a 5L, 5M, 1R, 3/4A, 3/4D stat line. PS is a nice reusable power to give him some punch. Same with Gore, which I may be in favor of renaming Cruelty for the theme. RW is a nice thematic cheerleader power, and if the Phoenixes ended up in Utgar with some kind of rebirth power, that could be fun synergy (alternatively drop the general restriction.

If we're not making him supernatural, i'm not sure how paralyzing stare can be explained...? Since Vlad isn't using any mental/hypnotic powers, I don't feel it's thematic to a historical figure. (Unless we're going in the vampire direction, which I don't think the majority are in favor of)

While Gore feels a little more thematic, with only a 5 movement and 3/4 attack, I don't see it being utilized all too often. Mebbe 2-3 times a game, tops...?

Whereas "Ruthless Warlord" and/or Terrifying Presence/Cruelty make more sense to me. (I kinda like the Terrifying Presence latest version, where Squad figures move away from him. Seems accurate for such a cruel historical human)

Heroscaper Guy
May 13th, 2020, 10:31 PM
There's also a lot of outside-the-norm movement already happening.

Paralyzing Stare 13
After moving and before attacking, choose any small or medium figure adjacent to Vlad III. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, the defending figure cannot roll defense dice if attacked by Vlad III this turn.

Gore
If Vlad III inflicts one or more wounds on a Unique Hero with a normal attack, you must place 1 additional wound marker on the defending figure's Army Card.

Ruthless Warlord
Once per Round, when a Squad figure you control who follows Utgar misses a normal attack roll within 8 clear sight spaces of Vlad Tepes Dracula, you may choose to immediately destroy that Squad figure. If you do, all other figures you control who follow Utgar may add +1 to their attack dice for the remainder of the Round.

My favorite ideas so far. And something like a 5L, 5M, 1R, 3/4A, 3/4D stat line. PS is a nice reusable power to give him some punch. Same with Gore, which I may be in favor of renaming Cruelty for the theme. RW is a nice thematic cheerleader power, and if the Phoenixes ended up in Utgar with some kind of rebirth power, that could be fun synergy (alternatively drop the general restriction.

If we're not making him supernatural, i'm not sure how paralyzing stare can be explained...? Since Vlad isn't using any mental/hypnotic powers, I don't feel it's thematic to a historical figure. (Unless we're going in the vampire direction, which I don't think the majority are in favor of)

While Gore feels a little more thematic, with only a 5 movement and 3/4 attack, I don't see it being utilized all too often. Mebbe 2-3 times a game, tops...?

Whereas "Ruthless Warlord" and/or Terrifying Presence/Cruelty make more sense to me. (I kinda like the Terrifying Presence latest version, where Squad figures move away from him. Seems accurate for such a cruel historical human)

Think the paralyzing stare there is to represent the fear that enemies felt (especially in his impalement fields).

NecroBlade
May 13th, 2020, 10:49 PM
Right. It could probably also use a rename, and it works just fine.

flameslayer93
May 14th, 2020, 12:24 AM
Probably gonna be a hard :down: from me on the current version of Ruthless Warlord. Stingers, Rats, etc don’t need a cheap Taelord.

Maybe if the power was only a 1-turn buff I can see it being less of a problem.

Heroscaper Guy
May 14th, 2020, 12:43 AM
Probably gonna be a hard :down: from me on the current version of Ruthless Warlord. Stingers, Rats, etc don’t need a cheap Taelord.

Maybe if the power was only a 1-turn buff I can see it being less of a problem.

Yeah, its why I said once per round with my version. Makes it easier to track too.

Astroking112
May 14th, 2020, 02:24 PM
If we're not making him supernatural, i'm not sure how paralyzing stare can be explained...? Since Vlad isn't using any mental/hypnotic powers, I don't feel it's thematic to a historical figure. (Unless we're going in the vampire direction, which I don't think the majority are in favor of)

While Gore feels a little more thematic, with only a 5 movement and 3/4 attack, I don't see it being utilized all too often. Mebbe 2-3 times a game, tops...?

Whereas "Ruthless Warlord" and/or Terrifying Presence/Cruelty make more sense to me. (I kinda like the Terrifying Presence latest version, where Squad figures move away from him. Seems accurate for such a cruel historical human)

Paralyzing Stare is from Me-Burq-Sa (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8279) (simply adjusted to match Vlad's range). Here's an excerpt from the official bio:
...Me-Burq-Sa carries a powerful plasma blaster at his side, although with his presence and daunting stare, he almost has no need for it. His stare is so powerful that sometimes his enemies cannot even muster the strength to defend themselves against his relentless attack.
Thematically, I think that it's a great fit for a historical take on Vlad, who inspired such fear in his opponents that some turned tail and ran. No supernatural explanation is needed if you guys want to go that route.

As for Gore, I think that it'll actually come up almost alarmingly often with Paralyzing Stare. Depending on the roll cutoff, approximately 50% of Vlad's rolls would ignore defense dice outright, and with 3 attack, you only have a 12.5% chance of not dealing at least 2 wounds. It can be absolutely devastating to heroes. Being limited to 5 move and a single attack helps keep him in check a bit, though you could always push for a more expensive design above 100 points if it feels too underwhelming.

Ruthless Warlord
Once per Round, when a Squad figure you control who follows Utgar misses a normal attack roll within 8 clear sight spaces of Vlad Tepes Dracula, you may choose to immediately destroy that Squad figure. If you do, all other figures you control who follow Utgar may add +1 to their attack dice for the remainder of the Round.

This power concerns me greatly. Utgar has a huge number of units, and letting any of them trigger an unlimited attack boost for the round is crazy. Say, for example, that you have a squad of rats. After spending OM1 on them (used mostly for positioning the screen, but 4 attacks of 1 die each leaves very good odds for at least one missing), the rest of your army gets a huge attack boost. Sacrificing a 10 point rat to achieve this is an easy choice.

Owlman
May 14th, 2020, 04:38 PM
If we're not making him supernatural, i'm not sure how paralyzing stare can be explained...? Since Vlad isn't using any mental/hypnotic powers, I don't feel it's thematic to a historical figure. (Unless we're going in the vampire direction, which I don't think the majority are in favor of)

While Gore feels a little more thematic, with only a 5 movement and 3/4 attack, I don't see it being utilized all too often. Mebbe 2-3 times a game, tops...?

Whereas "Ruthless Warlord" and/or Terrifying Presence/Cruelty make more sense to me. (I kinda like the Terrifying Presence latest version, where Squad figures move away from him. Seems accurate for such a cruel historical human)

Paralyzing Stare is from Me-Burq-Sa (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8279) (simply adjusted to match Vlad's range). Here's an excerpt from the official bio:
...Me-Burq-Sa carries a powerful plasma blaster at his side, although with his presence and daunting stare, he almost has no need for it. His stare is so powerful that sometimes his enemies cannot even muster the strength to defend themselves against his relentless attack.
Thematically, I think that it's a great fit for a historical take on Vlad, who inspired such fear in his opponents that some turned tail and ran. No supernatural explanation is needed if you guys want to go that route.

As for Gore, I think that it'll actually come up almost alarmingly often with Paralyzing Stare. Depending on the roll cutoff, approximately 50% of Vlad's rolls would ignore defense dice outright, and with 3 attack, you only have a 12.5% chance of not dealing at least 2 wounds. It can be absolutely devastating to heroes. Being limited to 5 move and a single attack helps keep him in check a bit, though you could always push for a more expensive design above 100 points if it feels too underwhelming.

Ruthless Warlord
Once per Round, when a Squad figure you control who follows Utgar misses a normal attack roll within 8 clear sight spaces of Vlad Tepes Dracula, you may choose to immediately destroy that Squad figure. If you do, all other figures you control who follow Utgar may add +1 to their attack dice for the remainder of the Round.

This power concerns me greatly. Utgar has a huge number of units, and letting any of them trigger an unlimited attack boost for the round is crazy. Say, for example, that you have a squad of rats. After spending OM1 on them (used mostly for positioning the screen, but 4 attacks of 1 die each leaves very good odds for at least one missing), the rest of your army gets a huge attack boost. Sacrificing a 10 point rat to achieve this is an easy choice.

Ehhh....I feel like we are recycling MBS's special, and I'd personally rather try to get as many new and unique powers as possible for this guy.


:down: for me regarding the Stare power.


Also I think we should all agree on if Vlad's gonna be a frontline attacker, or a sit in the back and direct kind of leader (like Katsuro) I personally like more of the sit back and lead Utgar's troops type, who scares the beejebus out of figures, but it seems others want the charge into battle type.

Regarding the Warlord thing, I can see how that can get nuts, although I think we all know Rats are one of the most broken units in Scape. (They really ought to be edit'd to be 60-65 pts by the fabase, IMO but that's for a different thread)

What if we gave him the ability to only activate it up to 3 times per game, like "Vlad stats the game with 3 Warlord markers, remove a marker to destroy a Squad figure, yaddayadda..."

(Also don't forget Vlad needs to be close to the action to activate the Warlord power, so he's putting himself in danger to do so. If 8 range is too much, what about 5-6 spaces? 5 life and 3 defense figures can be killed pretty quick if you're not careful)

Heroscaper Guy
May 14th, 2020, 05:18 PM
If we're not making him supernatural, i'm not sure how paralyzing stare can be explained...? Since Vlad isn't using any mental/hypnotic powers, I don't feel it's thematic to a historical figure. (Unless we're going in the vampire direction, which I don't think the majority are in favor of)

While Gore feels a little more thematic, with only a 5 movement and 3/4 attack, I don't see it being utilized all too often. Mebbe 2-3 times a game, tops...?

Whereas "Ruthless Warlord" and/or Terrifying Presence/Cruelty make more sense to me. (I kinda like the Terrifying Presence latest version, where Squad figures move away from him. Seems accurate for such a cruel historical human)

Paralyzing Stare is from Me-Burq-Sa (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8279) (simply adjusted to match Vlad's range). Here's an excerpt from the official bio:
...Me-Burq-Sa carries a powerful plasma blaster at his side, although with his presence and daunting stare, he almost has no need for it. His stare is so powerful that sometimes his enemies cannot even muster the strength to defend themselves against his relentless attack.
Thematically, I think that it's a great fit for a historical take on Vlad, who inspired such fear in his opponents that some turned tail and ran. No supernatural explanation is needed if you guys want to go that route.

As for Gore, I think that it'll actually come up almost alarmingly often with Paralyzing Stare. Depending on the roll cutoff, approximately 50% of Vlad's rolls would ignore defense dice outright, and with 3 attack, you only have a 12.5% chance of not dealing at least 2 wounds. It can be absolutely devastating to heroes. Being limited to 5 move and a single attack helps keep him in check a bit, though you could always push for a more expensive design above 100 points if it feels too underwhelming.

Ruthless Warlord
Once per Round, when a Squad figure you control who follows Utgar misses a normal attack roll within 8 clear sight spaces of Vlad Tepes Dracula, you may choose to immediately destroy that Squad figure. If you do, all other figures you control who follow Utgar may add +1 to their attack dice for the remainder of the Round.

This power concerns me greatly. Utgar has a huge number of units, and letting any of them trigger an unlimited attack boost for the round is crazy. Say, for example, that you have a squad of rats. After spending OM1 on them (used mostly for positioning the screen, but 4 attacks of 1 die each leaves very good odds for at least one missing), the rest of your army gets a huge attack boost. Sacrificing a 10 point rat to achieve this is an easy choice.

Ehhh....I feel like we are recycling MBS's special, and I'd personally rather try to get as many new and unique powers as possible for this guy.


:down: for me regarding the Stare power.


Also I think we should all agree on if Vlad's gonna be a frontline attacker, or a sit in the back and direct kind of leader (like Katsuro) I personally like more of the sit back and lead Utgar's troops type, who scares the beejebus out of figures, but it seems others want the charge into battle type.

Regarding the Warlord thing, I can see how that can get nuts, although I think we all know Rats are one of the most broken units in Scape. (They really ought to be edit'd to be 60-65 pts by the fabase, IMO but that's for a different thread)

What if we gave him the ability to only activate it up to 3 times per game, like "Vlad stats the game with 3 Warlord markers, remove a marker to destroy a Squad figure, yaddayadda..."

(Also don't forget Vlad needs to be close to the action to activate the Warlord power, so he's putting himself in danger to do so. If 8 range is too much, what about 5-6 spaces? 5 life and 3 defense figures can be killed pretty quick if you're not careful)

Or just do "Once per round, when an OM is revealed on Vlad, you may destroy a friendly adjacent figure..." Clean language, prevents him doing it with bonding and has a restriction of him having to have an om on him along with counterplay of he has to be adjacent when an om is revealed (so opponents can play against it).

Owlman
May 14th, 2020, 05:43 PM
[QUOTE]Or just do "Once per round, when an OM is revealed on Vlad, you may destroy a friendly adjacent figure..." Clean language, prevents him doing it with bonding and has a restriction of him having to have an om on him along with counterplay of he has to be adjacent when an om is revealed (so opponents can play against it).

Good idea, any one else?

Pumpkin_King
May 14th, 2020, 06:42 PM
We need to be mindful of our goals of making AOTV a master set - there's no swarm figures in the box, so to speak. It doesn't quite feel right.

I'd rather him get some bonus for destroying a figure. Maybe not a Tagawa marker level bonus - something about destroying a figure gives him Deadly Strike for the rest of the round? You could then leave it open to destroying your own figures.

Captain Stupendous
May 14th, 2020, 08:18 PM
Lots of ideas being thrown out here which is great! Personally I'd be happy to see this guy as either a vampire or historical Vlad. I might have a slight preference for the Vlad angle, if only because historically themed units are much less common, both within this set and VC as a whole, so it would be nice to have a little more diversity there. Also, as others have said, we'd want to make sure that a vampire hero was sufficiently distinct from the other vampires.

If we do go with the Vlad direction, I agree that another movement power in the set might be a little too much when we already have Ozuul and Deinekes. I like PK's idea of representing his cruelty by giving him some sort of bonus for destroying figures. Probably the best way to do that mechanically would be to require the player to reveal the X order marker after destroying a figure to trigger the bonus. While giving him Deadly Strike would be thematic, it might be simpler to just give him a straight attack bonus?

I also think that some form of Ruthless Warlord could work as well, although I think that most of the suggestions so far would need to be reined in a decent bit.

Tornado
May 15th, 2020, 07:18 AM
If you go Vlad, an Impaler power would be cool.
Where he leaves the bodies of destroyed figures on the battlefield as trophies and to breed fear.

Owlman
May 15th, 2020, 10:38 AM
If you go Vlad, an Impaler power would be cool.
Where he leaves the bodies of destroyed figures on the battlefield as trophies and to breed fear.

I had a power called "Impale" but no ones going for it apparently, haha :P

Tornado
May 15th, 2020, 11:05 AM
Right on. The image of the fallen left on display felt cool and theme-y.
I thought there was hesitation to card actual people.?

flameslayer93
May 15th, 2020, 02:13 PM
Right on. The image of the fallen left on display felt cool and theme-y.
I thought there was hesitation to card actual people.?

I believe only 1 person has said they were hesitant to card real people. I get that.

Ketchupgeek
May 15th, 2020, 02:21 PM
Right on. The image of the fallen left on display felt cool and theme-y.
I thought there was hesitation to card actual people.?

I believe only 1 person has said they were hesitant to card real people. I get that.

You can always work around it in this case that the card is based on the "legend" of Vlad the Impaler and the rumors of things he did and less about the actual guy. Did he actually paralyze people with his stare? No. But is it believable for the legend? You betcha.

Heroscaper Guy
May 15th, 2020, 02:44 PM
Right on. The image of the fallen left on display felt cool and theme-y.
I thought there was hesitation to card actual people.?

I believe only 1 person has said they were hesitant to card real people. I get that.

And if its an issue we can just call him dalv.

flameslayer93
May 16th, 2020, 07:49 AM
Right on. The image of the fallen left on display felt cool and theme-y.
I thought there was hesitation to card actual people.?

I believe only 1 person has said they were hesitant to card real people. I get that.

And if its an issue we can just call him dalv.


That's ok, I was jokingly calling him Chadmir in the discord lol.


Back to serious mode:
Since an attack aura has been discussed (and certainly needs to be toned down both for the Master Set and for the actual metagame...), I'll toss out the simplicity of Attack Aura 1 again. As long as he has a power that is good in battle (such as Paralyzing Stare, Gore or a rename of it), the theme of him scaring his own troops so much that they'll fight harder will come through nicely. Plus, since powers are effectively reuses, we make Scytale's life easier. ;)



Vlad Dracula :utgar:
Human/Warlord/Terrifying/Medium 5
5 Life/5 Move/1 Range/3 Attack/4 Defense


Attack Aura 1: Adjacent melee dudes get +1 attack.
Paralyzing Stare 16: On a 16+, dudes Vlad attacks can't roll defense.
Gore: +1 wound to heroes that Vlad damages.
90 points

Owlman
May 16th, 2020, 01:30 PM
So I was thinking, what if we make Vlad a throwback to Ornak in some respects?

Also, would anyone be open to the idea of instead recycling MBS's shtick, instead it becomes sort of a reversal when a Hero decides to attack Vlad?

(My wording may be too complicated here, just a rough draft)

Like this:


Vlad Tepes Dracula
Human/Warlord/Terrifying/Medium 5
5 Life/5 Move/1 Range/4 Attack/3 Defense
120-140 pts??)


Ruthless Warlord
If Order Marker 1 is placed on Vlad, then instead of taking a turn with Vlad, you may destroy an adjacent Squad figure you control, then immediately take a turn with 1 Squad you control who follows Utgar. Each figure in the Squad moved in this way may add 1 to their Movement and Attack dice for this turn. (All Squad figures used in this way must be within 8 clear sight spaces of Vlad before moving.)

Paralyzed with Fear
When an adjacent Unique Hero would choose to attack Vlad, you must roll the 20 sided die. On a 16 or higher, that figure may not attack Vlad, and immediately ends its turn.

Gore
When Vlad successfully wounds a Unique Hero, you may choose an adjacent Squad figure, and destroy it.

(Granted that version of Gore may be a little powerful...)

Pumpkin_King
May 16th, 2020, 02:46 PM
We need to keep in mind complexity levels. 3 powers is a lot, especially when they do everything that they do.

Also, yeah, we should probably find another Romanian name that still brings to mind Vlad.

Making him a warlord is a great idea.

What about combining the “bonus for killing” with an aura - if he destroys a figure, the rest of the round he adds 1 to all figures adjacent and himself?

Owlman
May 16th, 2020, 03:41 PM
We need to keep in mind complexity levels. 3 powers is a lot, especially when they do everything that they do.

Also, yeah, we should probably find another Romanian name that still brings to mind Vlad.

Making him a warlord is a great idea.

What about combining the “bonus for killing” with an aura - if he destroys a figure, the rest of the round he adds 1 to all figures adjacent and himself?

I personally love the Gore ability moreso than any Stare ability, although the way I worded it is more like Cleave tho, I realized...*face palm*

I'm a big fan of the full "Vlad Tepes Dracula" as a full name.

Pumpkin_King
May 16th, 2020, 05:39 PM
I suppose we do have Spartacus in classic.

Heroscaper Guy
May 16th, 2020, 06:19 PM
I suppose we do have Spartacus in classic.

Crixus and Parmenio say hi.

flameslayer93
May 16th, 2020, 06:20 PM
I suppose we do have Spartacus in classic.

And isnt there the einar sniper from C3V who was a real guy?

NecroBlade
May 17th, 2020, 06:14 PM
Probably gonna be a hard :down: from me on the current version of Ruthless Warlord. Stingers, Rats, etc donít need a cheap Taelord.

Maybe if the power was only a 1-turn buff I can see it being less of a problem.
In my defense, I always read it as turn not round. :lol:

I thought there was hesitation to card actual people.?
I don't see why there should be. As noted, Spartacus and friends exist.

We need to keep in mind complexity levels. 3 powers is a lot, especially when they do everything that they do.

Also, yeah, we should probably find another Romanian name that still brings to mind Vlad.

Making him a warlord is a great idea.

What about combining the ďbonus for killingĒ with an aura - if he destroys a figure, the rest of the round he adds 1 to all figures adjacent and himself?
Absolutely agree we don't want many, if any, 3-power cards in this set.
His name should be Vlad Tepes or Vlad Dracul, though.
I could get behind Warlord, but it depends on whether or not he has some kind of attack buff that competes with Marcus'.


I personally love the Gore ability moreso than any Stare ability, although the way I worded it is more like Cleave tho, I realized...*face palm*
Cleave would also be a reasonable power for him.

I like the idea of a front-line cheerleader. One power that helps his own offense, be it Stare, Gore, Cleave, or something else. One power that helps allies, like Ruthless Warlord (limiting it to a turn ;) ), Attack Aura, etc.

Pumpkin_King
May 17th, 2020, 07:55 PM
Maybe he has attack aura, but only under certain conditions - Tagawa-like markers, or having a certain number of wounds activates his aura.

Owlman
May 18th, 2020, 09:52 AM
Vlad Dracula (Per wikipedia, Vlad Dracul was his father)

Human/Warlord/Terrifying/Medium 5
5 Life/5 Move/1 Range/4 Attack/3 Defense (or 3 attack/4 def.)



Ruthless Warlord
If Order Marker 1 is placed on Vlad, then instead of taking a turn with Vlad, you may destroy an adjacent Squad figure you control, then immediately take a turn with up to 2 (same figure?) Squads you control who follows Utgar. Each figure in the Squad moved in this way may add 1 to their Movement and Attack dice for this turn. (All Squad figures used in this way must be within 8 clear sight spaces of Vlad before moving.)

Gore
Version 1: When Vlad successfully wounds a figure, you must place an additional wound on that figures Army Card.

Version 2: When Vlad successfully wounds a Unique Hero, you may choose an adjacent Squad figure, and destroy it. (Cleave 2.0?)


So my reasoning for letting him use 2 squads for a turn is since this is gonna be a once per round/turn thing, I don't think in many cases players would be inclined to sacrifice a squaddie for using just 3-4 figures, who may not all be able to even attack this turn. At least when you're moving 6-8 figures you have more of a shot at dealing some damage.

I'm all for giving him 3 powers, but some folks want more simplicity.

Also, what if we made him Relentless instead of terrifying? I can totally picture Vlad and 3x Squads of Blaackguard knights rushing across the map, lol! (Although Terrifying makes sense too, just a thought)

Pumpkin_King
May 18th, 2020, 04:47 PM
"Partial squad turns" are a no-go.

capsocrates
May 18th, 2020, 07:20 PM
PARALYZING STARE

GRUESOME INSPIRATION
When Vlad destroys a small or medium figure, you may place the destroyed figure on this card. If there is at least one revealed order marker on this army card, adjacent figures add 1 to their attack for each destroyed figure on this card. Remove all destroyed figures from this card at the end of the round.

No need to cap the amount of the bonus or limit it to adjacent attacks--you're spending order markers on Vlad to get the bonus. If players want to spend two OMs to get a +2 attack for their third OM (but only for figures standing next to Vlad, a melee figure) let 'em do it.

Tornado
May 18th, 2020, 07:27 PM
Love that caps. Pretty close to what I imagined but much cleaner. Nice.

capsocrates
May 18th, 2020, 07:29 PM
It might be better to use markers (why not the sword markers or the star markers or something?) to not step on cards with spirit powers.

NecroBlade
May 18th, 2020, 09:39 PM
Right, so far placing dead figures somewhere other than their own card only happens for whoever controls the card. Allowing displacement of enemy figures causes a lot of conflict there. Vlad very well could be a good place for sword/shield/sunburst markers.

Pumpkin_King
May 18th, 2020, 11:34 PM
I like that. Ruthless Warlord was a good idea but this is a good refinement. Definitely gives him a different role than Marcus - a wider effect but harder to activate.

It would rarely ever get to 2 attack as a bonus because he’d need to kill two figures in a round. Could we make it effect himself as well, or is that a bridge too far?

capsocrates
May 18th, 2020, 11:55 PM
Is Paralyzing Stare not enough of an attack boost?

flameslayer93
May 19th, 2020, 09:47 AM
It's a cool power, but I'm not sure it'll really be worth triggering (making him not worth playing). As a player I'd rather get a consistent amount of attacks over a chance of his attack bonus not happening (Paralyzing Stare is still a d20 power and thus prone to failing... 3A is really only going to kill a squad figure), and STILL have to lose an important OM for it. The reason Marcus, Finn, and Gilbert are any good for their respective builds is because they don't eat good OM's.

Owlman
May 19th, 2020, 11:26 AM
It's a cool power, but I'm not sure it'll really be worth triggering (making him not worth playing). As a player I'd rather get a consistent amount of attacks over a chance of his attack bonus not happening (Paralyzing Stare is still a d20 power and thus prone to failing... 3A is really only going to kill a squad figure), and STILL have to lose an important OM for it. The reason Marcus, Finn, and Gilbert are any good for their respective builds is because they don't eat good OM's.

I agree, its a unique wording but I wouldn't see myself trying to activate it. It's gonna be a :down: for me regarding the Gruesome Display power as currently worded.

Also I'm strongly against any regular "attack aura".

We already have a Taelord like flameslayer has said, and there are a number of figures who already give a +1 attack for being adjacent. (Marcus and Brave Arrow say hey)

I'd like Vlad here to be more unique in activating any kind of attack special, especially involving the death of a fellow squad mate.

Zetsubo
May 19th, 2020, 02:49 PM
Gruesome Inspiration is a really cool power, but I agree that when played with bonding squads it isn't worth the OM. What kind of markers come in the boxes that could be used instead?

capsocrates
May 19th, 2020, 02:59 PM
It's not meant to be used with bonding squads. It is meant to be used with the other cards in the AotV "box"

flameslayer93
May 19th, 2020, 03:01 PM
It's not meant to be used with bonding squads. It is meant to be used with the other cards in the AotV "box"

I donít want to use it in the box either.

Confred
May 24th, 2020, 05:47 PM
https://i.postimg.cc/PxStkNwN/Sorin-Esenwein.jpg

Here's a card I made a way back. I personally love his current name "Sorin" (Not really big on the eternal thirst part), and I'm all for him to being an Esenwein!

(Or perhaps he could be a rival Vampire, mebbe one who fights for Vydar, since Vydar's had a little Undead too!)

Let's bounce idea's around, guys! :D

This is a solid design.

Vydar Vampire is definitely rule of cool. Color scheme supports it

Confred
May 24th, 2020, 05:49 PM
Just popping in to offer some thoughts on Sorin!

I get that the sculpt looks like a vampire, but he's one of the few historical opportunities that we have in this box, so I wanted to bring up my idea of turning him into Vlad the Impaler (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_the_Impaler) again. This was the rough draft that I posted in the Pre-Brainstorming Thread about a year ago, for reference:

Vlad III

Human
Unique Hero
Count
Cruel

4 Life
5 Move
1 Range
3 Attack
4 Defense
70-90 Points

Paralyzing Stare 13
After moving and before attacking, choose any small or medium figure adjacent to Vlad III. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, the defending figure cannot roll defense dice if attacked by Vlad III this turn.

Gore
If Vlad III inflicts one or more wounds on a Unique Hero with a normal attack, you must place 1 additional wound marker on the defending figure's Army Card.

The idea is that Gore symbolizes the torture and cruelty that Vlad was known for without fiddling with an aura of fear or other complex mechanics, and Paralyzing Stare is just downright nasty to heroes with that combo. Lower stats allow for a lower point total, too, since the majority of our units are hovering around 100 points right now.

Anyway, I just wanted to bring up the possibility of a take on Vlad again in case the idea was buried by the passage of time. Given that Vlad III inspired the tale of Dracula, I think that the pale-skinned Sorin looks like a great opportunity for a loose take on the character.

Feel free to pick anything out of that draft if it sticks. I look forward to seeing what y'all come up with in any case. :)

That sounds like a cool figure for sure, but Sorin doesn't look like Vlad.

Vlad needs a funny hat and a 'stache.

Confred
May 24th, 2020, 05:50 PM
What about something like this?

https://i.postimg.cc/44DBvGyh/Vladmir-Dracula.jpg


OORrrr....Instead of "Whirlwind assault", if we really wanna go full out Dracula, how about something like this:

Superhuman Assault: After moving, when Vladmir Dracula makes an attack, he may continue to use the rest of his movement, if any, after the attack resolves. (Vladmir Dracula must legally be able to end his movement.) Or something like that...that would jack up the price though.


:evilgrin:

I'm weary of 4x power figures. Less is more.

Confred
May 24th, 2020, 05:54 PM
And here's an undead version of him too, which I like a little better, tbh:

https://i.postimg.cc/rFtsCZcY/Vlad-Tepes-Dracula-1.jpg

(We could make this a warlord too, either way instead of vampire)

Vampire isn't a supported creature type. Warlord is good.

His stance reminds me of Izumi Samurai.

Dund Stare + Counter Attack ...
Counter Attack + Life Drain (60pts)

Confred
May 24th, 2020, 05:55 PM
A ranged Gore would be cool if he had some way to facilitate range. I think we just need to temper the ideas with some simplicity and we'll be right where we need him to be.


Define facilitate range? He's wielding a sword, I don't think he should any ranged attack, if that's what you're implying. Little confused, lol! (Or mebbe my power just needs better wording?)

I agree with this being a melee figure.
The sword is a major cue.

Captain Stupendous
May 24th, 2020, 07:33 PM
If we did end up going with the Vampire angle, this was an idea I had come up with a little while ago. I honestly don't really know what kind of stat line would work best with these abilities, but I think it could make for a fun assassin type unit.

Sorin
6? Life / 6 Move / 5? Attack / 3? Defense

LIFE DRAIN

STEALTH FLYING

BLOOD LINK
Whenever Sorin receives one or more wounds from a normal or special attack, you may roll the d20. If you roll a 12 or higher, you may deal 1 wound to a hero figure within 4 clear sight spaces.

Pumpkin_King
May 24th, 2020, 09:37 PM
I very much do not want a vampire angle. We can make the necromancer figure an Esenwein vamp. This one has real potential to be a historical figure.

capsocrates
May 24th, 2020, 10:41 PM
I'm not on this pod, but as a pod leader I'll state that I strongly prefer the Vlad angle over a vampire angle here.

Captain Stupendous
May 24th, 2020, 11:30 PM
While I'd prefer a historical design, I wouldn't be automatically opposed to a strong vampire design. The sculpt could certainly work either way, but for the sake of diversity I agree that a historical angle would be ideal as long as we can come up with a design that gets enough traction behind it.

Pumpkin_King
May 24th, 2020, 11:42 PM
I think we had something with:

- a warlord
- gives some sort of buff that differentiates him from Marcus
- is thematically brutal and ruthless

Captain Stupendous
May 24th, 2020, 11:52 PM
I think that nailing the buff ability is what we still need to have a solid historical angle. So far I haven't been completely convinced by any of the buffs proposed. Most of the drafts have seemed a little too complicated, although there's been a lot of them so there might have been something that I liked that I'm not recalling right now.

Pumpkin_King
May 26th, 2020, 10:49 PM
Letís go over some options:

- killing a figure gives himself deadly strike
- killing a figure gives himself and adjacent an extra attack in melee
- killing a figure gives a move buff to himself and those who are near him?
- killing a figure grants a Tagawa marker - getting all three/two gives him deadly strike/an autoskull
- simply just attack aura 1

These are some options that avoid over complexity (While still fulfilling the theme of a ruthless violent warlord) off the top of my head. Can anyone else think of anything?

Captain Stupendous
May 26th, 2020, 11:53 PM
Let’s go over some options:

- killing a figure gives himself deadly strike
- killing a figure gives himself and adjacent an extra attack in melee
- killing a figure gives a move buff to himself and those who are near him?
- killing a figure grants a Tagawa marker - getting all three/two gives him deadly strike/an autoskull
- simply just attack aura 1

These are some options that avoid over complexity (While still fulfilling the theme of a ruthless violent warlord) off the top of my head. Can anyone else think of anything?

Of those options, I think I like the second power the most: (killing a figure gives himself and adjacent an extra attack in melee).

Here's another option I thought of which might break my own preference for keeping things simple, but I like the way it represents his brutality and disregard for the lives of his allies:

BRUTAL LEADERSHIP
Whenever a friendly figure within 2 clear sight spaces attacks or defends against an adjacent figure, you must change one die that did not show a skull to a skull.

That wording is terrible, but assuming that it could be cleaned up and worded in a way that wasn't "custom-y" I think it could do a nice job of conveying the theme we're going for and lead to some interesting tactical decisions.

Pumpkin_King
May 27th, 2020, 01:43 AM
Oh, I like that. I'll wait to see if it's workable from rules people, but I like it.


I also like option 2

Confred
June 3rd, 2020, 12:59 AM
There's also a lot of outside-the-norm movement already happening.

Paralyzing Stare 13
After moving and before attacking, choose any small or medium figure adjacent to Vlad III. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, the defending figure cannot roll defense dice if attacked by Vlad III this turn.

Gore
If Vlad III inflicts one or more wounds on a Unique Hero with a normal attack, you must place 1 additional wound marker on the defending figure's Army Card.

Ruthless Warlord
Once per Round, when a Squad figure you control who follows Utgar misses a normal attack roll within 8 clear sight spaces of Vlad Tepes Dracula, you may choose to immediately destroy that Squad figure. If you do, all other figures you control who follow Utgar may add +1 to their attack dice for the remainder of the Round.

My favorite ideas so far. And something like a 5L, 5M, 1R, 3/4A, 3/4D stat line. PS is a nice reusable power to give him some punch. Same with Gore, which I may be in favor of renaming Cruelty for the theme. RW is a nice thematic cheerleader power, and if the Phoenixes ended up in Utgar with some kind of rebirth power, that could be fun synergy (alternatively drop the general restriction.

I like Gore

Pumpkin_King
June 9th, 2020, 09:44 PM
Bumping this now that he's had time to sit. How do we feel?

Zetsubo
June 17th, 2020, 06:02 AM
Option 2 sounds the best, but how do we give adjacent figures an extra attack if there isn't any bonding? Markers?

Owlman
June 17th, 2020, 12:58 PM
Hey, wanted to comment that I've officially sent Pumpkin King my "letter of resignation", as it were. :lol:

I'm stepping down from this pod.

Frankly it feels like all my idea's have been shot down since starting, even though I had some really creative ones, so it's just not worth the effort, IMO. I don't think it should take months and months to agree on a direction, but it is what it is. :|

I wish ya'll best of luck in designing these guys! :)

Pumpkin_King
June 17th, 2020, 04:12 PM
I did receive it - we'll continue from here. Thank you, Owlman.

Let's see if we can work up a draft for people to comment on.


=====
Vlad


Human
U. Hero
Warlord
Ruthless


5/5/1/4/3

BRUTALITY
When Vlad destroys a figure/causes a wound, for the rest of the round he and all figures with a range of 1 adjacent to him add 1 to their attack.


PARALYZING STARE/CRUELTY 13
After moving and before attacking, choose any small or medium figure adjacent to Vlad III. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, the defending figure cannot roll defense dice if attacked by Vlad III this turn.

flameslayer93
June 19th, 2020, 03:13 PM
Let’s give this a try. I prefer deal a wound, especially because of the hero heaviness of the MS. He might end up a bit underpowered with bonded Romans, but since that’s only a major thing for the MS only I’m not too worried about it.

Captain Stupendous
June 19th, 2020, 07:39 PM
Does Brutality need to use a marker as a reminder of whether he's killed/dealt a wound?

flameslayer93
June 20th, 2020, 12:57 AM
Does Brutality need to use a marker as a reminder of whether he's killed/dealt a wound?

It shouldnít *need* it, similar to how Overextend doesnít need a marker.

Captain Stupendous
June 21st, 2020, 03:27 PM
Hmmm, I guess Overextend just seems a little more memorable to me, especially if we go with the version where he would only need to deal a wound and not necessarily kill something.

Pumpkin_King
June 22nd, 2020, 03:41 PM
He might end up a bit underpowered with bonded Romans, but since thatís only a major thing for the MS only Iím not too worried about it.


As far as I'm concerned, that's a feature and not a bug. We don't need to make heavy competition for MDS.


I'm not convinced we need a marker, but if we do, are we using the sword markers yet?

flameslayer93
June 23rd, 2020, 01:54 AM
He might end up a bit underpowered without bonded Romans, but since that’s only a major thing for the MS only I’m not too worried about it.


As far as I'm concerned, that's a feature and not a bug. We don't need to make heavy competition for MDS.


I'm not convinced we need a marker, but if we do, are we using the sword markers yet?

Woops, typo. Fairly big difference there

Pumpkin_King
June 24th, 2020, 05:48 PM
Oh, yeah, hah. No worries there. I'm not too concerned on that note.

Pumpkin_King
July 6th, 2020, 06:18 PM
Bumping. How do we feel?

Captain Stupendous
July 12th, 2020, 11:51 AM
I'm assuming this is the draft we're currently talking about:

Vlad

Human
U. Hero
Warlord
Ruthless

5/5/1/4/3

BRUTALITY
When Vlad destroys a figure/causes a wound, for the rest of the round he and all figures with a range of 1 adjacent to him add 1 to their attack.

PARALYZING STARE/CRUELTY 13
After moving and before attacking, choose any small or medium figure adjacent to Vlad III. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, the defending figure cannot roll defense dice if attacked by Vlad III this turn.

I think this is a solid draft. Personally it doesn't excite me that much, but that's fine. Brutality seems like it will be pretty situational, and I'm guessing won't have as much of an impact in practice as it looks like on paper. Also, right now I'm not sure whether or not Brutality is intended to stack if Vlad deals more than one wound during the round? Going by the power as written it seems like the bonus should stack, but I'm not sure that was the intent.

I also don't love how Paralyzing Stare/Cruelty 13 is just a renamed version of James Murphy's Whip 12 with the d20 target slightly adjusted, but there's plenty of precedent for this kind of name change so I'm okay with it.

Also, just an observation that right now Velkhor, Nahiri, Vlad, and Durnipia all have 5 Life / 3 Defense. That's not necessarily something that needs to be changed, but I definitely think that the miniature's armor could easily justify a higher defense value if we wanted to go in that direction.

flameslayer93
July 12th, 2020, 01:55 PM
I personally think 4D is justifiable here. Nahiri could easily get 2D since she’s basically wearing light armor.

Pumpkin_King
July 23rd, 2020, 08:52 PM
Alright, I'm going to put that in the OP. Did we want to talk about the name? I'm putting Vlad III just for now.

flameslayer93
July 24th, 2020, 07:23 AM
Vlad III works for me. :up:

Captain Stupendous
July 25th, 2020, 06:22 PM
Vlad III would be my preference as well.

Pumpkin_King
July 28th, 2020, 07:31 PM
I'm doing a little skimming - did we want to use the actual, historical figure of Vlad Dracul, or a sort of Robin Hood-esque folkloric eastern-europe warlord heavily inspired by him? I'm for some reason hesitant to use the actual historical figure, if only because we know where he died and that would disrupt Earth's timeline, something the ODs were hesitant to do IIRC.

If the latter, we could say Vlad IV, and it's his secret, but just as brutal, son.

flameslayer93
July 29th, 2020, 02:49 AM
Something tells me Utgar doesnt care about disrupting timelines. :)

Captain Stupendous
July 29th, 2020, 09:51 AM
For me a lot depends on what name we want to go with for the figure. If we stick with the name Vlad III, it would seem weird to me if the figure wasn't the actual historical figure Vlad III. Regarding the historical continuity, a quick look at wikipedia suggests that the historical Vlad's body was never found? If so, that could actually tie in nicely to the idea that Utgar summoned Vlad, saving him from death in the middle of a losing battle.

From Wikipedia:

The place of his burial is unknown.[129] According to popular tradition (which was first recorded in the late 19th century),[130] Vlad was buried in the Monastery of Snagov.[131] However, the excavations carried out by Dinu V. Rosetti in 1933 found no tomb below the supposed "unmarked tombstone" of Vlad in the monastery church. Rosetti reported: "Under the tombstone attributed to Vlad there was no tomb. Only many bones and jaws of horses."[130] Historian Constantin Rezachevici said Vlad was most probably buried in the first church of the Comana Monastery, which had been established by Vlad and was near the battlefield where he was killed.[130]

All that being said, I'd also be okay with going the more generic route as long as the name was changed to not be TOO similar to the historical figure, although I find this direction slightly less compelling.

Pumpkin_King
July 30th, 2020, 06:03 PM
Regarding the historical continuity, a quick look at wikipedia suggests that the historical Vlad's body was never found? If so, that could actually tie in nicely to the idea that Utgar summoned Vlad, saving him from death in the middle of a losing battle.





That's actually VERY compelling and something I missed. I like that a lot, that's assuaged my concerns. Thanks, Cap S!



Are we onto editing for Vlad now?

Captain Stupendous
July 30th, 2020, 08:49 PM
Do we first need to nail down the final wording for Brutality?

BRUTALITY
When Vlad destroys a figure/causes a wound, for the rest of the round he and all figures with a range of 1 adjacent to him add 1 to their attack.


Right now its unclear whether Brutality only works when destroying a figure, or whether it would also trigger off of dealing a wound to a hero.

I would slightly prefer for the ability to work only after destroying a figure, but I'd be fine either way. I still don't love that the ability involves an (admittedly minor) memory mechanic in order to remember whether or not Vlad activated Brutality during the current round, especially given how many other attack and defense buffs there are in the master set so far, but if everyone else is okay with it I won't make a big deal about it.

It's also not clear to me whether the attack buff from Brutality is intended to stack with multiple kills/wounds dealt. Going by the power as written I believe that the buff would stack, if for example Vlad killed figures on order markers one and two, during his third turn he and adjacent figures would get +2 attack. However, I'm not sure that was how the power was intended to work when first suggested?

Pumpkin_King
July 31st, 2020, 07:17 PM
I think simplest is best - he destroys one figure, he buffs himself and all adjacent by one. Requires a destroy, and it doesn't stack.

If we need to, we can make it an experience marker mechanic, but I don't think we do need to right now.

flameslayer93
August 1st, 2020, 07:31 AM
I think simplest is best - he destroys one figure, he buffs himself and all adjacent by one. Requires a destroy, and it doesn't stack.

This is what I think works best. I'd hate for him to start jacking Romans up to high valhalla just because he managed to wound a couple minis.

BRUTALITY
When Vlad destroys at least 1 figure, for the rest of the round he and all figures with a range of 1 adjacent to him add 1 to their attack.

This should prevent stacking.

Also, for the record, I'd prefer we call his second power Paralyzing Stare to keep the number of new powers down. And we certainly can't call it Whip ;)

Pumpkin_King
August 5th, 2020, 03:33 PM
I'm good with both of those.

Captain Stupendous
August 16th, 2020, 12:37 PM
I think simplest is best - he destroys one figure, he buffs himself and all adjacent by one. Requires a destroy, and it doesn't stack.

This is what I think works best. I'd hate for him to start jacking Romans up to high valhalla just because he managed to wound a couple minis.

BRUTALITY
When Vlad destroys at least 1 figure, for the rest of the round he and all figures with a range of 1 adjacent to him add 1 to their attack.

This should prevent stacking.

Also, for the record, I'd prefer we call his second power Paralyzing Stare to keep the number of new powers down. And we certainly can't call it Whip ;)

To me, even with this wording it is still somewhat ambiguous whether Brutality would stack if he killed multiple figures over multiple turns. How would you all feel about this?

If Vlad has destroyed at least 1 figure this round, he and all friendly figures adjacent to him with a range of 1 add 1 to their attack.

As far as the naming of his second power goes, the only reason it might be best to use a name other than Paralyzing Stare is that the original power has a range of 6. If we do name it Paralyzing Stare I think it would be best to keep the range consistent, but that would also seem a little out of place for a melee character.

Pumpkin_King
August 17th, 2020, 07:02 PM
We could name the first power something like Bloodrage and second Brutality.

flameslayer93
October 10th, 2020, 11:56 AM
If Vlad has destroyed at least 1 figure this round, he and all friendly figures adjacent to him with a range of 1 add 1 to their attack. That's a fine power text. :up:


Since Vlad hasn't been touched in a bit, I think we should just go with Cruelty for the second power and call it good enough to go into public review.

Captain Stupendous
October 10th, 2020, 12:11 PM
Sounds good. If we could update the OP with my suggested text for Brutality, and change the text for Cruelty 13 to more perfectly match the precedent set by Whip 12, I think we should be good for public review.

Tornado
October 10th, 2020, 12:35 PM
Brutality affects enemy figures as well?
That is really cool.

NecroBlade
October 11th, 2020, 09:30 PM
Brutality affects enemy figures as well?
That is really cool.

I liked that version better, too.


If Vlad has destroyed at least 1 figure this round, he and all friendly figures adjacent to him with a range of 1 add 1 to their attack.


I also think 'scapey-er wording would be:

When Vlad or an adjacent figure with a Range of 1 attacks, if Vlad has destroyed at least 1 figure this round, the attacking figure adds 1 to their attack.

Pumpkin_King
October 12th, 2020, 08:58 PM
Interesting. I like it. If it ends up messing him up too much we can drop it.

Pumpkin_King
October 12th, 2020, 09:02 PM
Updated OP with Cruelty and Brutality. I used NB's wording.

There was concern in another thread about too many figures in the set having 4D - did we want to change that here?

flameslayer93
October 12th, 2020, 10:31 PM
Wearing real armor (and as way to further differ him from MDG) I'm comfortable with 4D.

Captain Stupendous
October 12th, 2020, 11:48 PM
I prefer 4D as well for this figure for the reasons flameslayer stated.

Pumpkin_King
October 13th, 2020, 09:32 PM
What point cost we thinking?

flameslayer93
October 14th, 2020, 08:52 AM
Right now I'm gonna say 90.

Pumpkin_King
October 14th, 2020, 03:02 PM
Slapped that in there.

Tornado
October 14th, 2020, 03:13 PM
Nice work all.

NecroBlade
October 18th, 2020, 01:35 PM
IMO he should fall slightly the other side of 100, but we can see what playtesting brings.

flameslayer93
October 18th, 2020, 02:27 PM
IMO he should fall slightly the other side of 100, but we can see what playtesting brings.

Hard telling. His attack bonus has a special requirement unlike Finn and MDG, and MDG's movement bonus is huge... Certainly much larger than Cruelty's ability to help him kill squaddies (when he already has 4A anyway). His attack is better than both, but thats not as good when he isn't actually backed up (or is eating turns by not using it).

In unique armies play, his benefits are even worse because destroying heroes with a single attack hero is hard. At least if Finn dies you can jack up the attack of a ranged unit.