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Astroking112
November 17th, 2019, 02:50 PM
The Book of Glyph of Healing

Arena of the Valkyrie Master Set

https://i.imgur.com/N2A4tcc.jpg

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NAME
Glyph of Healing

Temporary/Power Glyph
Figures you control may only stop on this Glyph if there is at least one wounded friendly Hero. When one of your figures ends its movement here, remove up to one wound marker from all friendly Heroes. This glyph cannot be placed symbol-side up in any scenario you may create.

The glyph used for this glyph is the Glyph of Healing from Arena of the Planeswalkers.


Editing Check (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=2347121&postcount=24)

Playtesting:
Test 1 (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=2351669&postcount=229)
Test 2 (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=2382044&postcount=143)
Test 3 (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=2396558#post2396558)
Test 4 (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=2397661#post2397661)

-Rulings and Clarifications-
TBA

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
TBA

https://i.imgur.com/N2A4tcc.jpg

Astroking112
November 17th, 2019, 02:53 PM
I figure that even if we do end up going with Kelda again, there has been enough significant discussion around this glyph to warrant a full design thread.

For the sake of getting a fuller vision of the set, here is a list of the other glyphs that we'll be using, provided by flameslayer93:

Move +2
Attack +1
Defense +1
These are all very straightforward to transfer to normal HeroScape rules, so they aren't a part of our design process right now, but I think that they're still pertinent to the discussion around creating glyphs.

In addition, our other two glyphs have taken the following form:
Recall - Revive a Squad Figure
Knowledge - Look at unrevealed Order Markers
Obviously, we should be doing something with healing here because of the glyph's name. There's been some discussion in the main Pod 0 thread about what to do with this glyph, with a couple of different avenues being discussed. The main ideas that immediately come to mind for me are:

Kelda again, with the same mechanics. This would still find use in our set through scenarios using only AotV, but it does run into the problem of being much less interesting for anyone who owns RotV. I'm not sure how often the glyph would find play in the long run if it is a complete Kelda copy.


Making it a temporary glyph like Kelda, but instead of fully healing the figure who stops on it, you remove 1 wound from all wounded heroes you control. That mostly encourages hero-heavy armies, which is nice.


The Arena of the Planeswalkers-style glyph, where it is permanent but only removes 1 wound from the figure standing on it at the end of every round or turn that figure takes. This potentially encourages podding armies too much, especially when our set is mostly going to be flat, but it does at least provide a completely different mechanic for mapmaking (such as putting the glyph in some central lowground).

NecroBlade
November 19th, 2019, 10:40 AM
While the AotP style would provide something new, I feel like it just has too many issues. If it heals the Hero every OM they get, it's far, far better with Q9, Nilf, etc. If it heals the Hero at the end of every round, it becomes a perch for cheerleaders. While these can be mitigated somewhat by map placement, that applies to literally every glyph, so IMO we're better off doing something else that doesn't rely on that crutch.








Making it a temporary glyph like Kelda, but instead of fully healing the figure who stops on it, you remove 1 wound from all wounded heroes you control. That mostly encourages hero-heavy armies, which is nice.





This I like for encouraging Heroes without being too swingy when Charos goes from 1 Life back to 9 (thanks for that experience, GenCon...).

lefton4ya
November 19th, 2019, 12:48 PM
As others have mentioned, if we made it heal the figure every order marker, it would be too strong. However if it healed only the hero on the glyph at the end of each round, I think it makes the glyph too weak. Even if you place Raelin or Taelord on it, almost all maps put glyphs on lower ground making it an easier target, and you are really hampering where the cheerleader can go. It would take 4 rounds to heal as much as Kelda when you have 4 wounds, having to spend 12 turns on the glyph versus 1 turn on Kelda is a very mitigating factor. I am not sure anyone would go for the glyph other than maybe your clean-up hero if the opponent only has melee left. The best suggestion with a permanent glyph is it can heal ANY figure at the end of the round as long as you have at least one figure on it, but that makes Rats, Warforged, and Bonding be able to maintain a glyph all the more appealing and overpowered compared to armies that cannot take a glyph easily.

Other option would be something weird like "heal up to 3 wounds" or a D20- roll to heal (same chance as Kelda figure), or the permanent glyph that somehow healed twice a round (with an X order marker mechanic maybe). None of those sound particularly appealing and "easy" as we are going for.

So for a consistent glyph the heal 1 wound from all heroes is a decent suggestion. Willing to take others though.

Astroking112
December 1st, 2019, 04:14 PM
While the AotP style would provide something new, I feel like it just has too many issues. If it heals the Hero every OM they get, it's far, far better with Q9, Nilf, etc. If it heals the Hero at the end of every round, it becomes a perch for cheerleaders. While these can be mitigated somewhat by map placement, that applies to literally every glyph, so IMO we're better off doing something else that doesn't rely on that crutch.

I agree that putting it on every OM wouldn't feel very good. Not only does it primarily boost certain figures like Q9, but it also provides very little benefit to most bonding armies of any kind if it requires an OM on that hero to activate. Given that they're one of the most common types of armies (or other, bonding-esque types of designs), I think that this version wouldn't find much use.

Removing the OM requirement does address that concern, but then you run into stuff like Gilbert sitting on the glyph and reinforcing his knights. I'm not a big fan of making another glyph that really only makes strong units stronger.



Making it a temporary glyph like Kelda, but instead of fully healing the figure who stops on it, you remove 1 wound from all wounded heroes you control. That mostly encourages hero-heavy armies, which is nice.



One of my concerns here is that it may be too niche. Outside of Elven Wizard builds, many armies only have a handful of Unique Heroes (or even none at all), so I can't see it being used as much as the once-per-round healing version in the long run. We've certainly had niche glyphs before, but this might be a step too far.

Additionally, it's structurally quite similar to Recall (temporary glyph that any figure can land on to achieve a small conditional heal for the army). Past Master Sets have generally had a good variety of glyphs that feel different, so having "small 'heal' for squads" and "small heal for heroes" might be a bit disappointing.

That all said, this kind of an all hero heal is more likely to find use in the AotV box, given the nature of the standalone units that we're making. I'm willing to move forward with this and see if it does end up feeling too similar to Recall.

flameslayer93
December 2nd, 2019, 08:35 PM
“Heal 1 from every hero” is a decent start. We can play around with that, sure.

NecroBlade
December 2nd, 2019, 10:20 PM
Possibly a mix of "heal 1 from every Hero" and "at the end of every round", but I'd rather see if we can't break the temporary version, first.

Astroking112
December 3rd, 2019, 10:06 PM
It's sounding like the "heal 1 from every Hero" temporary glyph has the most traction here, but I'd like to hold off on adding a specific direction to the OP until the rest of the pod chimes in.

Pinging capsocrates, All Your Pie, and Pumpkin_King to see if they have any thoughts on the matter.

All Your Pie
December 3rd, 2019, 10:49 PM
I think "heal 1 from every hero" on a temporary glyph is what works best for this set. I agree it's a shame that we aren't getting any weirdo glyphs like Mitonsoul or Proftaka in the set, but if we were going to do that then Recall would probably be the place rather than healing.

I would also be fine with a straight Kelda re-use. I just don't love the permanent glyph options, really.

Pumpkin_King
December 6th, 2019, 01:52 AM
1 from every hero is good!

capsocrates
December 7th, 2019, 02:27 AM
That's a good starting point. Put it in the OP

Astroking112
December 9th, 2019, 08:33 PM
Here's an attempt at hashing out the wording by copying from Recall:
Figures you control may only stop on this Glyph if there is at least one wounded hero in your army. When one of your figures stops here, remove one wound marker from all Unique Heroes you control. This glyph cannot be placed symbol-side up in any scenario you may create.

I'll go ahead and put this in the OP, but feel free to point out any flaws with this wording or improvements. I left it open to squads stopping on the glyph as well, since it applies for the entire army and is pretty limited otherwise, but we can limit it to only Unique Heroes if we'd prefer.

If there are no other suggestions, then I think that we're ready to vote on moving to Editing.

lefton4ya
December 10th, 2019, 02:06 PM
How about changing "You control" to "friendly" to make the glyph help in team games?
Figures you control may only stop on this Glyph if there is at least one wounded friendly hero. When one of your figures stops here, remove one wound marker from all wounded friendly Unique Heroes. This glyph cannot be placed symbol-side up in any scenario you may create.

It is definitely more powerful this way in team games, but is mitigated by the fact that people will be fighting for it.

Astroking112
December 10th, 2019, 08:38 PM
I like that suggestion. It's definitely more powerful in team games, but many conventional armies won't get a lot of value out of the glyph in 1v1 formats anyway.

NecroBlade
December 13th, 2019, 09:05 PM
How about changing "You control" to "friendly" to make the glyph help in team games?
Figures you control may only stop on this Glyph if there is at least one wounded friendly hero. When one of your figures stops here, remove one wound marker from all wounded friendly Unique Heroes. This glyph cannot be placed symbol-side up in any scenario you may create.

It is definitely more powerful this way in team games, but is mitigated by the fact that people will be fighting for it.

I like this as well. :up:

Astroking112
January 14th, 2020, 03:01 PM
Figures you control may only stop on this Glyph if there is at least one wounded friendly hero. When one of your figures stops here, remove one wound marker from all wounded friendly Unique Heroes. This glyph cannot be placed symbol-side up in any scenario you may create.

I went ahead and added this wording into the OP since a good amount of time has passed. Unless anyone has any problems with this current direction, then I think that we're good to vote on moving to Editing here.

I vote YEA to move the Glyph of Healing to Editing.

NecroBlade
January 31st, 2020, 07:47 PM
Yea

flameslayer93
February 1st, 2020, 02:01 PM
Yes to move to editing.

Astroking112
February 1st, 2020, 02:47 PM
Whoops, this vote has been going on for a while. Let's ping All Your Pie, capsocrates, and Pumpkin_King to give them a bit of time to vote or raise any concerns before calling it.

Pumpkin_King
February 1st, 2020, 03:03 PM
I’ve been following - no concerns that I can think of.

All Your Pie
February 1st, 2020, 06:45 PM
:up:

capsocrates
February 2nd, 2020, 02:43 AM
:up:

Astroking112
February 2nd, 2020, 12:13 PM
Great, we're ready to move to Editing, then. Pinging Scytale so he can take a look at this whenever he gets a chance.

Scytale
February 3rd, 2020, 07:42 PM
So a one-time healing to all friendly injured heroes? Kinda neat. But what's with the simplistic name? Doesn't seem fitting for a power glyph, though if simplicity is the point then it's fine.

Minor edits.
GLYPH OF HEALING
Figures you control may only stop on this Glyph if there is at least one wounded friendly Hero. When one of your figures ends its movement here, remove up to one wound marker from all friendly Heroes. This glyph cannot be placed symbol-side up in any scenario you may create.

Astroking112
February 3rd, 2020, 08:49 PM
Thanks, Scytale. I've updated the wording in the OP.

We've been following the names printed on the physical AotP glyphs to avoid confusion. This is less strange for stuff like Knowledge and Recall, but I think that it'll be better this way for new players.

Scytale
February 11th, 2020, 06:17 PM
Ok, I propose this moves on to Playtesting with the proposed wording.

NecroBlade
February 15th, 2020, 07:40 PM
Yea

flameslayer93
February 15th, 2020, 11:34 PM
You have my thumb.

And my axe.

And my bow.

Astroking112
February 17th, 2020, 06:27 PM
Sorry for letting this one sit for a bit. We technically don't need to vote after passing the Editing Checklist, so we're now in Testing!

flameslayer93
February 24th, 2020, 12:52 AM
Used this glyph over here:
https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=2351669&postcount=229

It’s impact was minimal, but it did help Nilfy terrorize my Vydar troops.

I placed the glyph in a central location that wasn’t directly bad, and I think it works well enough for that role, kinda like a treasure glyph.

flameslayer93
May 12th, 2020, 09:38 AM
Another game with AotV's Healing: https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=2382044&postcount=143


It's fun to try to wait until there's a hit on more than one hero to heal it off. I like how it adds a new measure of counter-play, similar to one found with the Vikings and Krug.


Bonding armies love it, but they generally eat glyphs anyway.

NecroBlade
May 12th, 2020, 08:49 PM
Sounds like the it doesn't have overwhelming impact, at least, which is good. I wonder if there is an army or units that would want to do something cheeky to burn the glyph before an opponent can use it? Like Kelda, Eldgrim could Overextend and run 10 spaces to it to get rid of it, and with this one he might heal an ally or two to boot!

capsocrates
June 10th, 2020, 10:19 PM
Got to test the Glyph of Healing today. It ended up helping to keep Dienekes in the game for a whole match, which was critical since he soaked up a lot of hits.



2020-06-09
Crumble, heat of battle Scraps format, featuring two treasure glyphs, the Glyph of Recall, and the Glyph of Healing

caps
125 Darth Maul (PM me for the card but I'll be putting it on 'Scapers later)
215 Dienekes
335 2x12th Caucasus Rifles
355 Marcu Esenwein

caps's 7yo
110 Minions of Utgar
290 1xTaelord the Kyrie Warrior
360 1xPhantom Knights

I set up a 12th pod on the highest ground available, surrounded by Dienekes and Maul, with Marcu on a solo height space nearby. My opponent places his Phantom Knights within reach of my pod, with the Minions of Utgar out of sight and Taelord nearby them.

My opponent won initiative and brought Taelord up to my pod with OM1. Dienekes rolled a 17 with Tether of Logos to pull Taelord next to him. Taelord rolled 2/3 and Dienekes rolled 1/4 to take a wound.
The 12th Caucasus Rifles were ineffective with my OM 2.
OM2 saw the Phantom Knights advance. I got a 11 on Tether of Logos against he first one to pull him adjacent and then kicked myself for not moving a Rifle away from Dienekes to give me another place to pull them to; he was maxed out at two pulls due to no good landing spaces. The first PK got 2/3 against Dienekes and he rolled 0/4. The next PK got 2/3 as well to kill a Rifle that had height and the last one got 3/3 to put 2 wounds on Darth Maul even though he had height; Sith Counterstrike did not trigger (got an 11). The Rifles then retaliated by killing two Phantom Knights.
OM3 saw Taelord fly to the glyph of Recall to bring back a Phantom Knight. Darth Maul force leaped over the pair of central pillars to land next to the Healing glyph and kill a Minion of Utgar.

My opponent won initiative again and activated the Minions of Utgar. The two remaining Minions swarmed Darth Maul, rolling 1/2 both times. Maul blocked the first one and got an 18 for Sith Counterstrike, but failed to block the second and took two wounds. The Rifles responded by shooting ineffectually at Phantom Knights.
My opponent's OM2 was on Phantom Knights. They both moved towards Darth Maul, but one of them landed in sight of Dienekes, who Tethered him over with a 17. The PK attacked him with 1/3 and he blocked it with 1/4. The other PK was not adjacent to any of my figures. My Rifles whiffed on their grenade for the Nth time but managed to kill a PK and then had no targets for their second normal attack.
My opponent then moved Taelord over to cover his last two squad figures by Darth Maul with his attack aura, but Dienekes Tethered him over to where he couldn't see them with a nat 20 on his Tether roll. Darth Maul took the healing glyph to heal himself and Dienekes of 1 wound each, then rolled 4/4 to kill the adjacent Minion of Utgar.

At this point it was 1 Phantom Knight and Taelord (with no wounds) against Darth maul (3 wounds), Dienekes (2 wounds), and 3 Rifles.

My opponent won initiative the third straight time.
His first OM was on the PKs, and was the only OM on them. The PK moved towards my Pod and Dienekes tethered him adjacent (with a 19) and took a wound from a 2/4 attack with a 1/4 defense roll. My Rifles were blocked on all of their attacks.
With OM2, Taelord attacked Dienekes 2/3 and was met with 1/4, giving Dienekes another wound. My Rifles finally got a grenade to go off against Taelord; although he took no wounds from it, he whiffed on a 3/4 attack and then only blocked1/2 against a 2/4 attack to get up to 4 wounds.
With his final OM, Taelord rolled 2/3 against Dienekes, who only rolled 1/4 to take yet another wound, bringing him to 5. Darth Maul stealth leaped adjacent to the Phantom Knight and rolled 3/4 against its 1/4 defense to kill it.

I finally got an initiative switch here and killed Taelord with my first OM on the Rifles.

capsocrates
June 13th, 2020, 11:53 PM
Played another game where the Glyph of Healing ended up mattering (Recall and Dienekes, for the most part, did not matter much).

2020-06-13
Rust and Ruin by Flash_19, Heat of Battle Scraps format

caps
125 Jango Fett
225 Sentinels of Grax
315 Dienekes
365 Tarn Viking Warriorsr

caps's 7yo
110 Varkaanan Greyspears
205 Arktos
365 2xVarkaanan Blade Dancers

Round1: Tarn Viking Warriors charge out and attack the Blade Dancers across the map, killing 2 of them; Greyspears advance on Jango's high ground, putting 2 wounds on him and 1 wound on Dienekes; Viking Warriors retaliate against the Greyspears, largely getting blocked, though one puts 4 wounds on Arktos; Blade Dancer dies leaving engagement with a Viking Warrior

Round2: Jango flies away from the melee and kills two Greyspears and Arktos with his Flame Thrower Special Attack; Blade Dancers kill a Tarn; Tarns kill a Greyspear; OM2 lost on Arktos; Sentinels of Grax activate Healing glyph to heal Jango and Dienekes and kill a Blade Dancer; last Greyspear dies leaving engagement with a viking (trying to get an angle on the Glyph of Recall)

Round3: Dienekes takes height to kill the penultimate Blade Dancer

Game is called

NecroBlade
June 14th, 2020, 03:00 PM
Thanks for the tests. Love seeing the glyph heal a couple different heroes, sometimes having an important impact.

flameslayer93
September 6th, 2020, 11:19 PM
Playtest: https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=2416284&postcount=49 (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=2416284#post2416284)

Glyph wasn't relevant, but I'll drop a link here for good measure.


Thoughts from the game:
Glyph of Healing: I wasn't able to pull attention away from the main firefight to grab it, and I doubt it would have helped me much.