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NecroBlade
May 11th, 2019, 11:08 PM
The Book of Ozuul

Arena of the Valkyrie Master Set

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567019947713101854/image0.jpg?width=508&height=676

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VALKRILL :valkrill:
OZUUL
Species Voidspawn
Unique Hero
Class Marauder
Personality Nihilistic
SIZE HEIGHT Huge 10

LIFE 8
MOVE 5 / BASIC 5
RANGE 1 / BASIC 1
ATTACK 6 / BASIC 7
DEFENSE 4 / BASIC 8

190 POINTS

GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, Ozuul may use Gravity Pull. One at a time, each non-adjacent small or medium figure within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul must be placed by its owner on any empty space adjacent to Ozuul, if possible. Figures moved with Gravity Pull do not take any leaving engagement attacks, but non-flying figures will take any falling damage that may apply. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must use Crushing Vortex Special Attack.

CRUSHING VORTEX SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 4.
All figures adjacent to Ozuul are affected by Crushing Vortex Special Attack. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.

The figure used for this unit is Eldrazi Ruiner from Arena of the Planeswalkers Battle for Zendikar.


Character Bio:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l82xVrGuOoQ


-Rulings and Clarifications-
Q: What happens if Ozuul Gravity Pulls a figure that is not owned by any player?
A: The player who controls Ozuul chooses an opponent who must place the Pulled figure.

Q: If both a Gladiatron and a figure affected by its Cyberclaw are two clear sight spaces away from Ozuul, what happens?
A: It depends on the order the two figures are chosen. If Ozuul's owner first chooses the Cyberclawed figure, it will not move. The Gladiatron can still be chosen and moved. After the Gladiatron moves, the Cyberclawed figure can not then be chosen again to be moved. If the Gladiatron is moved first, and is moved to a position where it no longer Cyberclaws the other figure, the other figure could then be moved by Gravity pull.

-Combinations and Synergies-

Synergy Benefits Received
TBA

Synergy Benefits Offered
TBA

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
TBA

Editing checklist (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=2404767&postcount=280)

Playtest 1 (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=2401232&postcount=276)
Playtest 2 (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=2408275&postcount=291)
Playtest 3 (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=2408889&postcount=293)
Playtests 4-6 (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=2410902&postcount=296)


https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567019947713101854/image0.jpg?width=508&height=676

Astroking112
May 12th, 2019, 02:05 AM
Personally, I like the idea of making the Eldrazi Ruiner some kind of eldritch horror the most. An alien from a black hole is a similar theme, but I find it to be a bit more of a stretch to explain why the creature is a shiny purple. That's largely just a thematic preference, though; I've always wanted to see gravity explored as a gameplay mechanic, and there's plenty of compelling space to explore there.

One idea that I had on the Discord server was this:
Gravity Crush Special Attack
Range 1. Attack Special.
When attacking with Gravity Crush Special Attack, roll X attack dice, where X is the height of the defending figure.

Preferably, this would be paired with a relatively low normal attack--say 4 or even 3--to make the effect more distinct on gameplay. Against most figures, Gravity Crush will be a strong but single hit, whereas against Jotun (or heaven forbid, the Marro Hive) and other large figures, the attack is extremely powerful. It's also just a fun twist on an existing stat that generally goes unused on most maps.

Since this guy is the biggest and most intimidating figure in AotV, I think that a high price point (probably in the 200 range) would be justified. We could certainly go lower, but one of the fantasies of HeroScape is often taking one large, super powerful figure (be it the dragons or other huge sculpts) and investing a ton of points into it. The Ruiner is the best fit for that role in my eyes, although I wouldn't be opposed to seeing something like Sgt. Drake Alexander (SotM) again, who basically falls into the same category despite being medium.

flameslayer93
May 12th, 2019, 02:35 AM
IMO, an Eldritch horror would be ok but we have plenty of reasons to use the black hole angle for this guy.

1) Rule of Cool. Black holes are awesome!
2) Gravity Crush SA is both unique and simple at the same time, and I doubt we’d have another opportunity to use the mechanics.
3) We may have another Eldritch Horror opportunity with the Scions. Two themes with one paint-scheme will help with variety in the base set.
4) With Gravity Crush and Gravity Pull, we already have two solid powers for this guy, both being fun for friendly play (17 Attack vs the Hive!!!) and competitive play (Force those Krav into engagement with GravPull, while not punishing everything).

Here’s what I had in my head for this thing’s statline:

Utgar/Black Hole Monster Race/Devourer/Terrifying
5 Life 5 Move 1 Range 3 Attack 4 Defense

Gravity Crush SA
Range 1. Attack Special.
Roll attack dice equal to the size of the targetted figure.

Gravity Pull
After moving, you may choose any figure within 3 clear sight spaces of Blackhole Monster. It’s controller must place it adjacent to Blackhole Monter. Any figure moved by Gravity Pull will not receive leaving engagement attacks or falling damage.

210 points?

Pumpkin_King
May 12th, 2019, 02:35 AM
Gravity Pull SA
Choose a figure. Up to 2 other figures within two clear sight spaces of the chosen figure are also affected. After rolling defense dice, move the two figures adjacent to the chosen figure.

Or this could be just a special power.

flameslayer93
May 12th, 2019, 02:37 AM
Gravity Pull SA
Choose a figure. Up to 2 other figures within two clear sight spaces of the chosen figure are also affected. After rolling defense dice, move the two figures adjacent to the chosen figure.

Or this could be just a special power.

Timing though! See my draft lol.

Pumpkin_King
May 12th, 2019, 02:40 AM
Harbinger of the Void, The Singularion, Starborn Watcher, Relativistic Hunter, Gravitation Lord.

Pumpkin_King
May 12th, 2019, 02:41 AM
I hit post and saw you posted before me! I like “sucking” figures together more than I like moving them adjacent to him though.

flameslayer93
May 12th, 2019, 02:51 AM
For GravPull, I was thinking he would be using his own massive gravity to pull his victim(s) in, somewhat like a regular black hole does. “Sucking” other figures into each other would be cool too, since its almost as though he’s creating black hole. I think that would deny having a second power though, unless it was something very simple. And probably not GravCrush lol.

Astroking112
May 12th, 2019, 03:03 AM
IMO, an Eldritch horror would be ok but we have plenty of reasons to use the black hole angle for this guy.

1) Rule of Cool. Black holes are awesome!
2) Gravity Crush SA is both unique and simple at the same time, and I doubt we’d have another opportunity to use the mechanics.
3) We may have another Eldritch Horror opportunity with the Scions. Two themes with one paint-scheme will help with variety in the base set.
4) With Gravity Crush and Gravity Pull, we already have two solid powers for this guy, both being fun for friendly play (17 Attack vs the Hive!!!) and competitive play (Force those Krav into engagement with GravPull, while not punishing everything).

I agree that black holes are cool, but it still feels a little weird to say that coming from a black hole made this alien purple. I'm fine with being outvoted on this, though. Whatever we go with, I think that it should match the theme of the Eldrazi Scions (although I'd prefer for the two to remain mechanically separate).

Here’s what I had in my head for this thing’s statline:

Utgar/Black Hole Monster Race/Devourer/Terrifying
5 Life 5 Move 1 Range 3 Attack 4 Defense

Gravity Crush SA
Range 1. Attack Special.
Roll attack dice equal to the size of the targetted figure.

Gravity Pull
After moving, you may choose any figure within 3 clear sight spaces of Blackhole Monster. It’s controller must place it adjacent to Blackhole Monter. Any figure moved by Gravity Pull will not receive leaving engagement attacks or falling damage.

210 points?

I think that 5 Life/4 Defense is too squishy if we're going for the 200 point range. Jotun already simply dies too quickly, and he has bonding and 2 more life, along with a much better attack. Either the Ruiner needs to be faster so that it can get into engagement before dying, or it needs to be able to take a bit more punishment.

This is mainly a wording thing on the Gravity Crush Special Attack, but I think we need to use the word "height" instead of size here. Size makes me think more of small, medium, or large, whereas the height is a specific number on the card. I'm fine if we ditch the "X dice" wording in my quick proposal, although it is straightforward and has precedent with Sir Gilbert.

For Gravity Pull, I was originally envisioning something more along the lines of pulling multiple figures, albeit perhaps only across 2 spaces instead of 3. Moving one figure across a greater distance feels more powerful to me, especially with a heavy focus on single-target attacks. I haven't really sketched out what that would look like, though: everything that I quickly type up doesn't feel quite right just yet.

Gravity Pull SA
Choose a figure. Up to 2 other figures within two clear sight spaces of the chosen figure are also affected. After rolling defense dice, move the two figures adjacent to the chosen figure.

Or this could be just a special power.

This is a very interesting idea, but I'm more fond of the Gravity Crush as a Special Attack personally, and an ability to pull two figures together would feel out of place without some sort of a ranged attack.

Perhaps we could go with a route mixing the two directions a bit:
Gravitation Vortex
After taking a turn with UNIT NAME, choose a figure within X clear sight spaces. You may place that figure on any empty space within Y clear sight spaces of its original location.
This skirts the line of becoming a "toss" power, but it could be tweaked to spice things up by changing the number of figures affected or the initial range or movement amount.

Harbinger of the Void, The Singularion, Starborn Watcher, Relativistic Hunter, Gravitation Lord.

All great names or epithets. Once everyone weighs in on the theme (so far, I think that all of these powers can work pretty well with the two main themes we've proposed), we can narrow down our name for the unit.

All Your Pie
May 12th, 2019, 04:37 PM
For an Eldritch Horror, we should definitely work on narrowing down exactly which thematic aspect of that trope we want to run with. Gravity works well as a cosmic/alien sort of power, but we could also run with a theme of madness or unknowability which would give us a wholly different power set.

For Gravity Crush, while referencing the size of the defending figure in some way is a good idea we should also keep in mind the other units in this set. Very few units from AotP will come in at any larger that height 5 or 6. As for size categories, the firecats will probably come in at large, but I don't know that anything else will. It's a cool idea more generally, but I don't know that it works in the context of the set.

Still, we could do something like

Gravity Bind
Opponent's figures that start their turn within 3 clear sight spaces of [figure name] subtract 2 from their move value and may not use the flying or stealth flying special powers.

This alone doesn't make an interesting card, but I'll mull it over. Beyond that, my only other comment is we should try to avoid forcing the figure into the 200+ point range if it doesn't naturally end up there.

flameslayer93
May 12th, 2019, 04:52 PM
Yeah, most units being size 4-6 in the set does make GravCrush not nearly as exciting as attacking dragons or such unless the power worked well against the Crypoliths which do have a size themselves of like 9. I don’t know if the Castle Door or Destructible Wall Section would have sizes based upon their own height or the fixtures they are in.

Pumpkin_King
May 12th, 2019, 05:56 PM
My Voidwalker custom reminds me of this, and I did a similar thing that disallowed flying, leaps, grapples, etc. I’m on mobile, look on my thread for it.

NecroBlade
May 12th, 2019, 08:19 PM
Gravity Crush Special Attack
Range 1. Attack Special.
When attacking with Gravity Crush Special Attack, roll X attack dice, where X is the height of the defending figure.

It was a terrible idea there and it's still terrible here. :p Nothing needs to be rolling 12+ dice, not even this guy. Hulk only goes to 11 for crying out loud! This is a much more palatable alternative:

Gravity Crush Special Attack
Range 1. Attack Special.
When attacking with Gravity Crush Special Attack, roll attack dice based on the defending figure's Size. Roll 2 attack dice against Small figures. Roll 4 attack dice against Medium figures. Roll 6 attack dice against Large figures. Roll 8 attack dice against Huge figures.

I also dig the idea for another power of gravity pulling figures toward him and/or affecting movement-based powers.

flameslayer93
May 12th, 2019, 08:35 PM
A single attack of 4 versus almost the entire MS (even with GravPull) is pretty uninspiring though, NB. Mimring/Grimnak/Torky all had some sort of high-powered smexy that led them to being particularly fun within their respective master sets. Going 3/6/9/12 might be a little better, but still breaks 11 dice quite quickly. :)

Pumpkin_King
May 12th, 2019, 09:02 PM
Now I'm on desktop. Here's my custom.


https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/296042826075209729/475450111120506899/VOIDSTRIDER.jpg

I like Gravity Well in general, but I don't know how many other figures in the MS will have Flying/movement abilities. If we're designing this to be somewhat self-contained it may feel odd to have him neuter just one or two other figures.

Do not like an SA based just on the height. It sounds good in theory, but it runs into the problem I have with Gravity Well - how many figures in the set are going to be anything other than Medium 5?

Astroking112
May 13th, 2019, 12:03 AM
For an Eldritch Horror, we should definitely work on narrowing down exactly which thematic aspect of that trope we want to run with. Gravity works well as a cosmic/alien sort of power, but we could also run with a theme of madness or unknowability which would give us a wholly different power set.

For Gravity Crush, while referencing the size of the defending figure in some way is a good idea we should also keep in mind the other units in this set. Very few units from AotP will come in at any larger that height 5 or 6. As for size categories, the firecats will probably come in at large, but I don't know that anything else will. It's a cool idea more generally, but I don't know that it works in the context of the set.

I think that both of the proposed powers could work with a madness flavor as well, be it drawing figures in as they succumb to insanity or controlling them to move in a different direction.

Gravity Crush is more problematic without a black hole/gravity theme, but you made a good point that within the confines of this set, it is unlikely to come into play very often. I'd still like to explore the design space, but if that's the big gimmick for the unit, I'd agree that it would be underwhelming with only this set.

I'm not convinced that we should abandon the idea entirely, though. There is still very likely to be some slight variation between 4-5 height, which will be noticeable, and the firecats and scions provide more variation. We also do have a precedent of some figures being set up for expansion with past Master Sets, working best with figures outside the set. It's not a huge stretch to make a figure that works well with a large set of figures outside the box, so long as it is still compelling without them.

Still, we could do something like

Gravity Bind
Opponent's figures that start their turn within 3 clear sight spaces of [figure name] subtract 2 from their move value and may not use the flying or stealth flying special powers.

This alone doesn't make an interesting card, but I'll mull it over. Beyond that, my only other comment is we should try to avoid forcing the figure into the 200+ point range if it doesn't naturally end up there.

I wouldn't be opposed to Gravity Bind (like Pumpkin_King, I made a similar power preventing flying on one of my own customs), but I would want to explore gravity further if the theme revolves around a black hole alien.

As for the points range, I think it would be more accurate to say that I feel like it's warranted to aim for a "heavier" figure points wise, given the imposing stature of the sculpt and the lack of other intimidating options in the set. It absolutely shouldn't be forced, but it's worth keeping in mind that powerful figures like Charos, Jotun, or the dragons are things that players often look for.


Gravity Crush Special Attack
Range 1. Attack Special.
When attacking with Gravity Crush Special Attack, roll X attack dice, where X is the height of the defending figure.

It was a terrible idea there and it's still terrible here. :p Nothing needs to be rolling 12+ dice, not even this guy. Hulk only goes to 11 for crying out loud! This is a much more palatable alternative:

Gravity Crush Special Attack
Range 1. Attack Special.
When attacking with Gravity Crush Special Attack, roll attack dice based on the defending figure's Size. Roll 2 attack dice against Small figures. Roll 4 attack dice against Medium figures. Roll 6 attack dice against Large figures. Roll 8 attack dice against Huge figures.

I also dig the idea for another power of gravity pulling figures toward him and/or affecting movement-based powers.

The Hulk also isn't canon. :p

Like All Your Pie mentioned, I think that the bigger problem is the lack of a lot of size variance in the Arena sets. We do have a couple of small (the smaller Eldrazi come to mind) and large figures. I'm not a fan of segmented tiers for the power, either; in my eyes, it's much more straightforward yet unique to just use the height number.

Now I'm on desktop. Here's my custom.


https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/296042826075209729/475450111120506899/VOIDSTRIDER.jpg

I like Gravity Well in general, but I don't know how many other figures in the MS will have Flying/movement abilities. If we're designing this to be somewhat self-contained it may feel odd to have him neuter just one or two other figures.

For flying, the pheonixes and stone winged statue are likely candidates, along with any potential vampires that other pods settle on. It's not a ton of targets to negate, but there are a few. I'm not overly fond of the Eldrazi Ruiner having an aura like this, though. The pose feels more intimidating and aggressive to me, although I suppose that this could be represented with the statline rather than the power set.

flameslayer93
May 13th, 2019, 12:33 PM
According to the MtG cards, most things within the set are size 4. Only 7 units are size 5+ (the Ruiner being one of them). The Crypoliths are size 9 which jumps that to 8 "units". Everything other than the Ruiner and Crypoliths are either size 4 or 5.

But, that doesn't mean we have to use MtG's sizes. Most things that are size 4 in MtG can easily pass for size 5. The Firecats are a 4 on the card, but can easily pass as 5 (like the Deathstalkers). Ob and the Werewolf could easily be 6's, and many things can pass as 5's for their 'Scape counterparts. If we wanted to, the Phoenixes could pass as size 3 because the Phoenixes themselves aren't that big, the wings and flames ejected from their behinds are.


If an upper limit is wanted, we can set the attack cap to the Ruiner's size. His own mass is only so powerful, so anything more massive would only be subject to his mass working against them. If that happens to be 10, then nothing in canon is broken. Krug can get 2 attacks of up to 9, so why wouldn't something that'll probably be ~200 points anyways be able to hit really really hard as well. He might hit harder than Jotun, but to be fair, Jotun always has 8 attack (plus throw). The Ruiner doesn't always have his massive attack.

Astroking112
May 13th, 2019, 01:27 PM
The Ruiner is only size 5 in MtG? That's very surprising, considering its sheer size. :lol:

I also figured that the Eldrazi Scions would be small, but I suppose that they might be taller than they looked in the pictures. Flameslayer has a point that there is room in variation in just the figures we have already.

One thing that I don't fully agree with is the Cryptoliths, though. It would be fantastic if we could include them in a Gravity Crush Special Attack, but that opens the door to other Destructible Objects, and the Fortress Door does not have a size or height on its card. We could make a ruling specifying the height of the door or justify it by saying that there should be an errata, but I'm not too comfortable with that idea, especially since the Door is the only canon Destructible Object.

I was meaning to suggest an upper limit as well, but forgot to. If going higher than 11 dice is a thematic break for people, it's as easy as saying "up to a maximum of 10 dice" or any other number.

flameslayer93
May 13th, 2019, 01:56 PM
The Scions are probably too big to pass them as Small 3, but Medium 3 is an option (if unexplored by official scape for some reason).

I’m not sure what we should do about the DO’s. We can definately rule them out, but that could be seen as a theme break. A big monster smashing through buildings and stuff is very Godzilla-like.

Also, good catch on the tiny Ruiner Astro ;)

Pumpkin_King
May 13th, 2019, 04:10 PM
I really think using the figure’s height is a fun idea, but I don’t know if it’s a good option here for this guy.

yamissflash
May 13th, 2019, 07:49 PM
Gravity Pull
After moving, you may choose any figure within 3 clear sight spaces of Blackhole Monster. It’s controller must place it adjacent to Blackhole Monter. Any figure moved by Gravity Pull will not receive leaving engagement attacks or falling damage.

210 points?

[Bold Added]

Lol please don't have a second water elemental. Unless it is a huge game-breaking balance issue, it seems silly to have gravity not cause falling damage.

flameslayer93
May 13th, 2019, 08:01 PM
Gravity Pull
After moving, you may choose any figure within 3 clear sight spaces of Blackhole Monster. Itís controller must place it adjacent to Blackhole Monter. Any figure moved by Gravity Pull will not receive leaving engagement attacks or falling damage.

210 points?

[Bold Added]

Lol please don't have a second water elemental. Unless it is a huge game-breaking balance issue, it seems silly to have gravity not cause falling damage.

Good point! That bit is in there because I cribbed it from similar ďmove enemyĒ powers.

Glad to have ya watch yamissflash !

All Your Pie
May 13th, 2019, 11:08 PM
Another possible version of a Gravity Crush power that does not rely on figure size/height:

Gravity Crush/Mass Implosion SA
Range Special. Attack Special.
All figures adjacent to [figure name] are affected by Gravity Crush Special Attack. Roll a number of attack dice equal to the number of figures adjacent to [figure name], up to a maximum of 5 dice. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.

Combine this with a power that allows the figure to pull units into adjacency and a decent normal attack and it could be a fun toolset.

All Your Pie
May 13th, 2019, 11:32 PM
With some consideration, my full draft would be:

Kaladbolg (or whatever)

Life 8
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 6
Defense 3
Points: 160-180ish?

Gravity Crush/Mass Implosion SA
Range Special. Attack Special.
All figures adjacent to Kaladbolg are affected by Gravity Crush Special Attack. Roll a number of attack dice equal to the number of figures adjacent to [figure name], up to a maximum of 5 dice. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.

Vortex Glare
After Kaladbolg rolls defense dice against a normal attack from an opponent's non-adjacent figure, if that figure is small or medium and Kaladbolg did not receive any wounds from the attack, you may immediately place that figure on any empty space adjacent to Kaladbolg. Figures placed with Vortex Glare will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

Having this figure's pull power as a defensive ability is probably something only I'll be a fan of, but Vortex Glare could easily be something more standard and the core of the design would still work the same.

NecroBlade
May 14th, 2019, 10:16 AM
With some consideration, my full draft would be:

Kaladbolg (or whatever)

Life 8
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 6
Defense 3
Points: 160-180ish?

Gravity Crush/Mass Implosion SA
Range Special. Attack Special.
All figures adjacent to Kaladbolg are affected by Gravity Crush Special Attack. Roll a number of attack dice equal to the number of figures adjacent to [figure name], up to a maximum of 5 dice. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.

Vortex Glare
After Kaladbolg rolls defense dice against a normal attack from an opponent's non-adjacent figure, if that figure is small or medium and Kaladbolg did not receive any wounds from the attack, you may immediately place that figure on any empty space adjacent to Kaladbolg. Figures placed with Vortex Glare will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

Having this figure's pull power as a defensive ability is probably something only I'll be a fan of, but Vortex Glare could easily be something more standard and the core of the design would still work the same.

This is actually closer to what I was going to propose, but you guys have been posting a lot! :) I would maybe even change Gravity Crush to 1+Special (i.e. counting himself toward the gravitational power) and maybe also remove the cap. Blastatrons don't have a cap, though arguably this would need one since it can affect multiple figures at once (on the other hand, Blastatrons get 4 attacks, so...)

I don't like Vortex Glare (better with a different name, but still), but I do agree another power should be able to pull figures adjacent to the Ruiner. Here's what I was going to submit before everyone beat me to the punch:

GRAVITY PULL
Before/Instead of/After moving, place each Small or Medium figure within 2 clear sight spaces adjacent to the Ruiner.

GRAVITY CRUSH
Instead of attacking, roll the d20 once for each adjacent figure. Add that figure's Height. If you roll X or higher, that figure receives 1 wound.


Pull could be paired with whatever we want its offensive power to be. Before moving would make an interesting restriction; instead of moving would really curb its power; and after moving could even be paired with a slower Move of 4. Small/Medium allows the Firecats to be a soft counter within the same set.

Crush hopefully helps satisfy the desire for referencing Size or Height, if we still wanted to go that direction. ;) One reason for going away from the Special Attack was that we seem to be planning a lot of those already just in this Pod. That's the kind of bigger picture thing we need to be keeping our eyes on as the core group. I'd be less worried about it if we're pulling away from that direction on the Leyline Phantoms, but that's still to be determined.

We'll also have to keep an eye on movement powers it seems. The quoted stats are pulled straight from the AotP unit, iirc, which works for the figure, IMO.

Pumpkin_King
May 14th, 2019, 10:41 AM
I like those two powers a lot.

flameslayer93
May 14th, 2019, 10:42 AM
Alright, I alluded to trying to come up with a culmination power of all of our ideas and hereís what Iíve got...

Gravity Crush Special Attack
Range Special. Attack Special.
You must place as many figures within 2 clear sight spaces as possible adjacent to Ruiner. Count the number of figures pulled adjacent to Ruiner and roll that many attack dice once for all figures adjacent to Ruiner. Medium figures subtract one from their defense. Large figures subtract 2 from their defense dice. Huge figures subtract 3 from their defense dice. Figures moved by Gravity Crush Special Attack will not receive leaving engagement attacks.

That would probably have to be this guyís only ability, but it allows a lot to happen. The most notable is that L/H figures can be moved, unlike most movement powers. Saylind and the Glyph of Summoning provide precedent for this. His max attack is 8, although this will be extremely rare because he gets the huge attack from pulling figures in, not the figures adjacent to him. This variant allows us to control his power and price level. Mostly because the other player is unlikely to let him pull 8 minis at a time.

Plus, unit size is still considered ;) ďBiggerĒ figures are weaker against it, but they generally have better stats anyway.

Pumpkin_King
May 14th, 2019, 10:44 AM
I think something we need to remember is that this is a master set. We want to go with simplicity wherever we can, and right now I think NB’s proposed abilities hit that better.

flameslayer93
May 14th, 2019, 10:55 AM
I’m not sold on it being much more difficult than NB’s. It combines the GravPull into Earth Slam. The biggest caveat being that the number of dice rolled is based upon number of figures actually moved. If that part was replaced with a static attack, then it would be GravPull+Earth Slam, which isn’t that difficult.

Edit: And the “first” posted version of Grav Crush was the simplest of all the powers in this thread :p

NecroBlade
May 14th, 2019, 11:01 AM
I think something we need to remember is that this is a master set. We want to go with simplicity wherever we can, and right now I think NBís proposed abilities hit that better.

To be fair, my powers were shorthand, not full legal text. :p

One more thing to think about: C3V is working on some eldritch monsters as well as Demons, so we need to make sure any synergy there is intended or avoided as necessary. I think, rather than "from a black hole", we can just call this thing "from the void".

Astroking112
May 14th, 2019, 12:38 PM
Kaladbolg (or whatever)

Life 8
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 6
Defense 3
Points: 160-180ish?

Gravity Crush/Mass Implosion SA
Range Special. Attack Special.
All figures adjacent to Kaladbolg are affected by Gravity Crush Special Attack. Roll a number of attack dice equal to the number of figures adjacent to [figure name], up to a maximum of 5 dice. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.

Vortex Glare
After Kaladbolg rolls defense dice against a normal attack from an opponent's non-adjacent figure, if that figure is small or medium and Kaladbolg did not receive any wounds from the attack, you may immediately place that figure on any empty space adjacent to Kaladbolg. Figures placed with Vortex Glare will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

Having this figure's pull power as a defensive ability is probably something only I'll be a fan of, but Vortex Glare could easily be something more standard and the core of the design would still work the same.

I'm good with this version of Gravity Crush, but while Vortex Glare is interesting, I'd prefer a more active version of the power. Like NB said, I'd even be fine with starting at 1 attack for the Crush and then adding one for every adjacent enemy.

The statline works for me, although if we need to increase the points much further because of the final power set and want to tweak some things to match, I would propose a little bit more defense.

GRAVITY PULL
Before/Instead of/After moving, place each Small or Medium figure within 2 clear sight spaces adjacent to the Ruiner.

GRAVITY CRUSH
Instead of attacking, roll the d20 once for each adjacent figure. Add that figure's Height. If you roll X or higher, that figure receives 1 wound.


Pull could be paired with whatever we want its offensive power to be. Before moving would make an interesting restriction; instead of moving would really curb its power; and after moving could even be paired with a slower Move of 4. Small/Medium allows the Firecats to be a soft counter within the same set.

Crush hopefully helps satisfy the desire for referencing Size or Height, if we still wanted to go that direction. ;) One reason for going away from the Special Attack was that we seem to be planning a lot of those already just in this Pod. That's the kind of bigger picture thing we need to be keeping our eyes on as the core group. I'd be less worried about it if we're pulling away from that direction on the Leyline Phantoms, but that's still to be determined.

We'll also have to keep an eye on movement powers it seems. The quoted stats are pulled straight from the AotP unit, iirc, which works for the figure, IMO.

This is the direction for Gravity Pull that I thought we would go in initially, so I'm glad to see it being proposed. I think that it works best as an after moving power, because the other two options will likely be as unsatisfying as trying to set up DŁnd. It's certainly a way to nerf it, but I think that it comes at a significant cost to the enjoyment of playing the figure.

Gravity Crush is interesting. I'm not especially fond of adding height here, actually, but that's because the difference between adding 4 or 5 to a D20 feels less impactful than an extra attack die. It's certainly still unique, but when combined with a pull power that can't bring the bigger figures in, I think that the Ruiner would struggle to reach the figures where it really makes a difference. If Gravity Pull worked with Large figures, I'd be much more of a fan.

The point about Special Attacks is a good one. I admittedly have been focusing more on the other units than the Leyline Phantoms, so I'll try to get caught up there within the next couple of days if I can.

Alright, I alluded to trying to come up with a culmination power of all of our ideas and hereís what Iíve got...

Gravity Crush Special Attack
Range Special. Attack Special.
You must place as many figures within 2 clear sight spaces as possible adjacent to Ruiner. Count the number of figures pulled adjacent to Ruiner and roll that many attack dice once for all figures adjacent to Ruiner. Medium figures subtract one from their defense. Large figures subtract 2 from their defense dice. Huge figures subtract 3 from their defense dice. Figures moved by Gravity Crush Special Attack will not receive leaving engagement attacks.

That would probably have to be this guyís only ability, but it allows a lot to happen. The most notable is that L/H figures can be moved, unlike most movement powers. Saylind and the Glyph of Summoning provide precedent for this. His max attack is 8, although this will be extremely rare because he gets the huge attack from pulling figures in, not the figures adjacent to him. This variant allows us to control his power and price level. Mostly because the other player is unlikely to let him pull 8 minis at a time.

Plus, unit size is still considered ;) ďBiggerĒ figures are weaker against it, but they generally have better stats anyway.

I actually think that this is a bit too complex. The act of placing figures adjacent to the Ruiner and the actual attack warrant being separated in my eyes, since they're practically two powers already. I'm not overly fond of referencing the size/height in the group attack SA, since the idea of pulling in figures and dealing more damage based on engagement already fulfills the gravity theme.

All Your Pie
May 14th, 2019, 09:58 PM
The defensive version of the pull is more of an idea I threw out than something I'm committed to, but I will still offer a bit of elaboration on it. It adds some anti-range ability to a figure that currently is best against melee, but with 3 defense isn't so oppressive that ranged figures would never risk the shot. I think it could make for an interesting dynamic in the place of ranged figures simply trying as hard as possible to keep their distance.

That said, if we aren't going with that then I could see some tweaks to the statline (I wasn't aware I had copied the AotP one, heh). I could see 4D 6L as opposed to 3D 8L. I'm not really a fan of 4D 8L, that seems like we're just arbitrarily cranking up the numbers.

Of course, stats are less important than powers/overall direction. For Vortex Pull, the ability to move around your own figures is interesting but I don't know that I want this figure to be able to cart around several squads of your own units with it. With the short range on the pull it might not be an issue, but we'd have to spend some time testing that. Overall I agree that we don't want to make it too similar to chain grab or other powers that convey a kind of particular theme, though.

For Special Attack vs. Autowound, I'll note that we're also discussing autowound/destroy powers on the Lanterns, and it wouldn't be any less weird to have an overabundance of those in the pod. I agree, though, that we don't want to get to the last few pods feeling like we have to clamp down on certain types of mechanics for the consistency of the set. Personally, I feel that SA is the most obvious implementation of Gravity Crush here, where as we could do something else with the teleportation theme, but that's an easy call for me as I don't much care for Telefrag.

NecroBlade
May 15th, 2019, 10:52 AM
The defensive version of the pull is more of an idea I threw out than something I'm committed to, but I will still offer a bit of elaboration on it. It adds some anti-range ability to a figure that currently is best against melee, but with 3 defense isn't so oppressive that ranged figures would never risk the shot. I think it could make for an interesting dynamic in the place of ranged figures simply trying as hard as possible to keep their distance.

That said, if we aren't going with that then I could see some tweaks to the statline (I wasn't aware I had copied the AotP one, heh). I could see 4D 6L as opposed to 3D 8L. I'm not really a fan of 4D 8L, that seems like we're just arbitrarily cranking up the numbers.

Of course, stats are less important than powers/overall direction. For Vortex Pull, the ability to move around your own figures is interesting but I don't know that I want this figure to be able to cart around several squads of your own units with it. With the short range on the pull it might not be an issue, but we'd have to spend some time testing that. Overall I agree that we don't want to make it too similar to chain grab or other powers that convey a kind of particular theme, though.

For Special Attack vs. Autowound, I'll note that we're also discussing autowound/destroy powers on the Lanterns, and it wouldn't be any less weird to have an overabundance of those in the pod. I agree, though, that we don't want to get to the last few pods feeling like we have to clamp down on certain types of mechanics for the consistency of the set. Personally, I feel that SA is the most obvious implementation of Gravity Crush here, where as we could do something else with the teleportation theme, but that's an easy call for me as I don't much care for Telefrag.

I'm OK with a relative weakness to range, unless we have a good thematic reason/power. Lots of large/high point figures don't have anything special in that regard. I could get behind 4D/6L, but that may come down the line in playtesting more. The intent wasn't to make him a "Carry" figure, so that's something to keep an eye on.

And you're right about autowounds being another big picture item to track (I may make note of those in a main thread somewhere). I think we can try not to do both the Ruiner and the Phantoms the same way, at least (though Phantoms seem to have gone away from either at the moment).

Astroking112
May 17th, 2019, 06:31 PM
The anti-range defensive aspect is interesting, but it ultimately feels a little too defensive for a huge figure with an aggressive statline to me. I prefer the more active Vortex Pulls that we've seen, even if they do allow for some "carrying" of your own figures. I can't imagine it being that useful in practice if it only has a range of 2 spaces, though, even if you can place them in front of the Ruiner to get some more free movement. It's a noteworthy trick, but I don't think it'll overwhelm the other aspects of the design.

NecroBlade
May 17th, 2019, 10:03 PM
If we want to discourage carrying allies, we could add "If Eldrazi uses Gravity Pull this turn, it must attack with Gravity Crush SA/use Gravity Crush this turn" somewhere. Makes sense thematically, too: it's either running around smacking things with its normal attack, or activating all of its gravity powers.

Astroking112
May 17th, 2019, 10:09 PM
I'm fine with that clause since it's thematic enough, but it won't discourage pulling a single ally too much if Gravity Crush gains strength with each engaged figure.

NecroBlade
May 17th, 2019, 10:27 PM
I'm fine with that clause since it's thematic enough, but it won't discourage pulling a single ally too much if Gravity Crush gains strength with each engaged figure.

Which is fine with me if a player wants to make a sacrifice to the void to try to hit harder. :twisted:

Astroking112
May 17th, 2019, 10:30 PM
I'm fine with that clause since it's thematic enough, but it won't discourage pulling a single ally too much if Gravity Crush gains strength with each engaged figure.

Which is fine with me if a player wants to make a sacrifice to the void to try to hit harder. :twisted:

When you put it that way, how could I refuse? :lol:

flameslayer93
May 18th, 2019, 06:27 PM
I like forcing the Ruiner to use GravCrush if it uses GravPull. It’s thematic, and helps prevent a player from using it as an extra Carry option.

I massively prefer a Special Attack version of GravCrush. This thing is likely going to be the most powerful unit, and autowounding powers don’t feel particularly powerful against Heroes. While we can certainly create another squad-killer like TKN, I’m not really into it. TKN was somewhat dissapointing in his own Master Set compared to Q10 to me, with his saving grace being the Nagrub-nuggets. The robot’s thematic boost was because of his varied armaments, something that makes you think of old Mecha cartoons. :)

NecroBlade
May 19th, 2019, 03:48 PM
I massively prefer a Special Attack version of GravCrush.

I see what you did there. I'm leaning that way as well, just wanted to get the d20 version out there since I had thought it up while earlier discussion was going on. EDIT: Added current discussion to OP for easy reference.

flameslayer93
May 23rd, 2019, 11:37 AM
Iím thinking we can start testing at 220 points for this beast.

Any ideas for left box stats?

Maybe Utgar/PurplePeopleEater/Devourer/Relentless?

He Devours everything with GravPull and GravCrush. Heís relentless is his pursuit of destruction and death. And heís purple.

Astroking112
May 23rd, 2019, 01:36 PM
Purple People Eater is the only proper choice for a species here. Anything else like Alien or some gibberish, nonsynergistic name is clearly invalid. ;)

Devourer and Relentless work for me, although I'd rather see him in Valkrill rather than Utgar if we're going for the black hole theme rather than an eldritch one. It better matches the mass consummation in my opinion, and Utgar already has plenty of units on his own (with other likely candidates like Ob Nixilus in this set).

If we do want to present this guy as some Lovecraftian horror, then I could see him in Utgar instead to match the Mindflayers thematically. The main difference to my knowledge is whether he'll be able to be used in Ornak hodgepodges or not, which although fun, typically aren't the most competitive of armies.

flameslayer93
May 23rd, 2019, 02:08 PM
I can live with him following Valkrill, although to be fair Valkrill has oppurtunities in this set already with Shadow Zombies and Lily. Giving him the Eldrazis does give him some more Sci-Fi which Id be happy with, though.

All Your Pie
May 24th, 2019, 12:54 AM
Iím not completely confident that the current version of Gravity Pull will play well in the set (it seems pretty easy to play around, even moreso for an all-uniques master set) but I could see us moving to testing here and seeing how it plays.

Pumpkin_King
May 24th, 2019, 01:03 AM
If it turns out that’s not super ideal, I feel like it’s an easy theme to re-mechanic.

Astroking112
May 24th, 2019, 02:17 AM
If it turns out thatís not super ideal, I feel like itís an easy theme to re-mechanic.

That's true. We've already tossed around a ton of gravity-based ideas in this thread. Many kinds of movement/pull abilities can work well with the AOE Gravity Crush SA, so if the "pull all figures within 2 spaces after moving" isn't fun or is too easy to avoid, we can go back to the drawing board on that.

lefton4ya
May 24th, 2019, 02:56 PM
I might get slapped for this, but how about adding adding Bonding to Eldrazi Scions to bond with the Eldrazi Ruiner? It is such a "classic" but simple power that I think should be in a master set, as the only one we had was Nagrubs Lifebonding, and we have not seen straight up bonding in an Unique Squad. We could make the species/personality/size/etc that we choose to bond on also apply to other already released figures, but should be fine with just one hero with one squad. GRAVITY CRUSH gets power for each adjacent figure and bonding allows squads can move adjacent, so if we added this we might not even need GRAVITY PULL, although I like that power anyway. We can also make the Scions somehow impervious to GRAVITY CRUSH.

Thoughts?

NecroBlade
May 24th, 2019, 03:22 PM
I responded to the Bonding idea in the Brainstorm thread (since it would be for the SPACE SHRIMP, though with obvious implications here).

I think Pull/Crush works fine even in the context of this set. Pulling in just two figures is two attacks of 3, which isn't bad. Pending potential defensive powers, you could also just want a special attack to for being special. It's also OK to have things that work better outside the set (see: Grimnak, Mimring); Rise of the Valkyrie didn't have any Commons, either.

Also, Valkrill works here for me.

capsocrates
May 26th, 2019, 07:26 PM
The Book of "Eldrazi Ruiner"

Arena of the Valkyrie Master Set

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567019947713101854/image0.jpg?width=508&height=676

Printer-Friendly PDF

VALKRILL :valkrill:
NAME
Species
Unique Hero
Class
Personality
SIZE HEIGHT Huge 10

LIFE 8
MOVE 5 / BASIC 5
RANGE 1 / BASIC 1
ATTACK 6 / BASIC 8
DEFENSE 3 / BASIC 8

POINTS

GRAVITY PULL
After moving, place each Small or Medium figure within 2 clear sight spaces adjacent to [Eldrazi Ruiner]. Figures moved with Gravity Pull will not take leaving engagement attacks. After using Gravity Pull, [Eldrazi Ruiner] must attack with Gravity Crush Special Attack this turn.

GRAVITY CRUSH SPECIAL ATTACK
Range Special. Attack 1 + Special.
All figures adjacent to [Eldrazi Ruiner] are affected by Gravity Crush Special Attack. Roll 1 attack die plus 1 additional attack die for each figure adjacent to [Eldrazi Ruiner]. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.

The figure used for this unit is Eldrazi Ruiner from Arena of the Planeswalkers Battle for Zendikar.


Character Bio:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l82xVrGuOoQ


-Rulings and Clarifications-
TBA

-Combinations and Synergies-

Synergy Benefits Received
TBA

Synergy Benefits Offered
TBA

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
TBA


https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567019947713101854/image0.jpg?width=508&height=676


This is a really cool idea. :up:

Pumpkin_King
May 27th, 2019, 12:22 AM
Maybe I missed it, but is gravity pull meant to be optional?

flameslayer93
May 27th, 2019, 02:29 PM
Maybe I missed it, but is gravity pull meant to be optional?

I thought it was, although it could be intriuging if we did a few tests where it wasnít optional.

Pumpkin_King
May 27th, 2019, 05:20 PM
Yeah, I do think it should be optional as well, because as it’s written, you would never be able to use his normal attack.

capsocrates
May 27th, 2019, 08:20 PM
I was quoting the OP but I believe the most recent drafts in the thread are "up to 2" figures.

I'm on the fence on whether either power should be mandatory... it seems thematic for them to be mandatory.

I think there needs to be some kind of wording to preclude him from moving figures that are already adjacent to him.

Astroking112
May 27th, 2019, 08:50 PM
I like Gravity Pull being mandatory. It feels thematic for this huge figure to not be able to avoid pulling things closer, and it adds some more thought to using him with a lot of squads. I'd rather have that be mandatory than using the Special Attack after a Gravity Pull, personally.

Like caps noted, specifying "each non-adjacent small or medium figure within 2 spaces" for Gravity Pull prevents him from swiveling already engaged figures around him. We'd need to add that clause to prevent him from doing weird stuff like moving all engaged figures out of Raelin's aura or onto a lower level to make fighting them easier. If we want to keep this quirk, then perhaps we should call the power Gravity Vortex instead.

All Your Pie
May 27th, 2019, 09:56 PM
I slightly prefer neither power to be mandatory or contingent on one or the other. Gravity Pull pulling in all nearby figures, including friendlies, to me already gets across the dominant and destructive nature of the power. Making anything else about it mandatory just cuts into the amount of interesting tactical decisions you can make with the unit, and having to Gravity Pull every turn might make the unit very frustrating and unwieldy to play.

NecroBlade
May 27th, 2019, 10:28 PM
I agree a mandatory Pull could be frustrating to play. I also agree with moving non-adjacent figures (so adjacent ones stay put).

Crush is mandatory after Pull to prevent him from just carrying around your own figures (though if you have, say, Izumi Samurai and think their Defense can handle it, be my guest).

All Your Pie
May 27th, 2019, 10:32 PM
Crush is mandatory after Pull to prevent him from just carrying around your own figures (though if you have, say, Izumi Samurai and think their Defense can handle it, be my guest).

Ah, right, forgot about that. Yeah, I could see moving this guy out of your SZ and pulling a horde of commons along with him being a real problem.

NecroBlade
May 27th, 2019, 10:55 PM
Hilarious to visualize, but problematic in practice (and also not really the point/theme of the figure).

capsocrates
May 28th, 2019, 03:53 PM
Is there anything in the current wording stopping you from placing a figure 2 spaces behind him on the space in front of him?

Astroking112
May 28th, 2019, 07:35 PM
Not currently. I'm not super concerned about it, since we'd need to specify only being able to move each figure up to 1 space or the like to avoid it, but I wouldn't be opposed to removing that quirk.

flameslayer93
May 28th, 2019, 10:43 PM
I donít think we *need* to add in any lines to prevent figures from being swiveled around or pulled in from behind or whatnot. Carry lets you do it, so why not offensive carry? Let that be a little benefit of thinking your turn through when you use this thing.

capsocrates
May 29th, 2019, 06:19 PM
I'm just not sure it fits the theme of him being a moving gravity well. It seems the figures should go to the nearest available space.

All Your Pie
May 29th, 2019, 07:49 PM
Another potential issue with Gravity Pull occurred to me recently--what happens if there aren't enough spaces adjacent to the Eldrazi Ruiner to fit every figure you're affecting with it? It's an extremely unlikely scenario to actually come up in play, but I figure we should probably either anticipate it as a R&C or come up with a way to word the power that makes the timing explicit.

Here's an early, far-too-wordy spitball:

Gravity Pull
After moving and before attacking, you use Gravity Pull. One at a time, you must place each non-adjacent small or medium figure within 2 clear sight spaces on any space that is both adjacent to (figure name) and within 1 space of their previous placement, if possible. Figures moved by Gravity Pull will not take leaving engagement attacks. If (figure name) uses Gravity Pull, they must use Gravity Crush Special Attack this turn.

I don't know if there's any cleaner way to address the "pulling figures to the other side of the ruiner" issue. I think we can come up with something mechanically workable, but I'd really like to make the wording a bit less tortuous if possible.

Pumpkin_King
May 30th, 2019, 01:17 AM
We should try and make an effort to prevent simple swiveling around him. That just strikes me as unfun gameplay. I get a Stinger Denial vibe off of it.

NecroBlade
May 30th, 2019, 08:39 PM
If we're moving figures to the closest adjacent space, then there's no reason to move figures that are already adjacent. I had thought of the 2-spaces-behind-to-the-front move before as well, and yeah it probably makes more thematic sense to try to prevent that. Also pretty easy to answer "what if there aren't enough spaces" in the power itself, though we can do an FAQ as well to be clear.


After moving and before attacking, place move each non-adjacent Small or Medium figure within 2 clear sight spaces adjacent to of [Eldrazi Ruiner] up to 1 space. Figures can only be moved with Gravity Pull if they can move adjacent to [Eldrazi Ruiner]. Figures moved with Gravity Pull will not take leaving engagement attacks. After using Gravity Pull, [Eldrazi Ruiner] must attack with Gravity Crush Special Attack this turn.



After moving and before attacking, move each non-adjacent Small or Medium figure within 2 clear sight spaces of [Eldrazi Ruiner] up to 1 space. Figures can only be moved with Gravity Pull if they can move adjacent to [Eldrazi Ruiner]. Figures moved with Gravity Pull will not take leaving engagement attacks. After using Gravity Pull, [Eldrazi Ruiner] must attack with Gravity Crush Special Attack this turn.

All Your Pie
May 30th, 2019, 08:45 PM
That definitely reads a lot better, although it is functionally different in that it is a move and not a place. Are we fine with Gravity Pull not being able to move figures up levels of terrain in situations where the space that they're on is lower than the spaces available adjacent to the Ruiner? I tentatively don't mind it myself, but I just want to clarify intent here.

NecroBlade
May 30th, 2019, 09:25 PM
Place and move still trigger all the same powers, so it's not really different outside the terrain levels issue. We can fix that, too, though I'm not sure the wording is as clean.


After moving and before attacking, place each non-adjacent Small or Medium figure within 2 clear sight spaces of [Eldrazi Ruiner] within 1 space of its current space. Figures can only be moved with Gravity Pull if they can be placed adjacent to [Eldrazi Ruiner]. Figures moved with Gravity Pull will not take leaving engagement attacks. After using Gravity Pull, [Eldrazi Ruiner] must attack with Gravity Crush Special Attack this turn.


Actually that's not so bad. I think the only open question then may be falling damage for figures pulled ground level adjacent from the top of a castle.

flameslayer93
May 30th, 2019, 10:49 PM
I say whatever the typical precedent for “place figures” powers is will work fine. He’s about to crush em anyway. :)

Pumpkin_King
June 20th, 2019, 08:09 PM
Bumping this. Let's go guys!

NecroBlade
June 21st, 2019, 09:49 AM
Updated the OP with the improved Gravity Pull wording.

lefton4ya
June 21st, 2019, 11:41 AM
I like the new wording - allows your friendly figures to remain 2 spaces away at your discretion and choose if you want to use them to add attack at the cost of being attacked. Deathreavers are great with them as only one is attacked and then they can scatter - the Scions should probably have Scatter/Scurry or a similar power so you can use the whole squad to get +3 attack but at most only 1 is at risk of dying, or else they can have low defense but high (or invulnerable) defense against special attacks. But that is a discussion for another thread.

flameslayer93
June 21st, 2019, 03:00 PM
Gravity Crush would ignore Scatter, lefton4ya.

Besides, Scatter only works when opponent’s figures attack them. ;)

lefton4ya
June 21st, 2019, 05:25 PM
flameslayer93 my fault. Well either way I like the changes and definitely room for Scions to have some way to avoid dying easily yet still buff the Gravity Crush.

Pumpkin_King
June 22nd, 2019, 01:38 AM
Gravity pull still reads as mandatory.

NecroBlade
June 22nd, 2019, 12:50 PM
Gravity pull still reads as mandatory.

Added the "you may" if we think we need it. Even though all powers are optional unless otherwise stated (see Grimnak's Chomp/not having to eat your own Orcs).

Pumpkin_King
June 23rd, 2019, 12:05 PM
You right, but the “You May” helps newer players. Eliminates the “wait does Grimnak have to chomp?” That some new players may have had.

NecroBlade
June 25th, 2019, 10:36 PM
Right, unless he's suddenly hurting for space on the card, there's no harm in having it.

flameslayer93
June 29th, 2019, 09:18 AM
I believe during the site shutdown someone on Discord had suggesting bumping Gravity Pull's attack to 2 + Special because the power was crappy against swarms, which is ironically who this guy is intended to work with.

Another option was to buff the range on Gravity Pull to 3 spaces, to help prevent the unintended lockdowns that screwed up the big purple people eater. Although the wording would be trickier without allowing shifting figures, we could try that if Gravity Pull doesn't do the trick.

Astroking112
June 29th, 2019, 12:38 PM
I was the one to suggest 2 + the number of adjacent figures for Gravity Crush, since if the Eldrazi can only pull 1-2 figures then he'll be pretty much just get tied down and be frustrating to play with. Boosting the minimum attack threshold is a way of making it more feasible to deal damage with him, although it does come at the cost of letting him get 6+ dice when pulling in 4 or more figures.

Buffing the Gravity Pull to 3 spaces is a more organic way of increasing the attack dice, although it still has the same problem of him being extremely easy to tie down if he can't get enough figures engaged. There's nothing inherently wrong with this weakness, but we need to make sure that it's not so easily exploitable that the unit becomes too frustrating to play. More detailed playtesting will make it more clear which one is the better option, but I'm fine with starting with either (or neither, if others feel like they're not necessary).

NecroBlade
June 30th, 2019, 12:41 PM
I'm wary of adding dice to Gravity Crush because of the exponential nature of the attack (each figure is both more dice and more targets). Likewise Gravity Pull at 3 spaces gets a little more complicated to write clearly.

The stats in the OP are just the AotP stats ported over. While they seem reasonable for the figure, they might not work with this power set. We could (and maybe should first) try rebalancing its defensive profile. 5D/6L for example would be about 25% sturdier, which may be enough to push it more toward the 200-point range which feels more appropriate for the "big bad" of the set (right now he'd be lucky to be 150, IMO).

Astroking112
June 30th, 2019, 03:12 PM
I see two main ways to change the stats to be more fitting for this power set: either increasing his single-target normal attack to pick off stragglers (6 is fine here, IMO), or buffing his durability so that when he's inevitably tied down it won't immediately become a very easy fight. I have a slight preference to 4D/8L or some other high life variant, since in the vein of Valguard it will make it easier to take some leaving engagement attacks in the heat of the battle.

flameslayer93
June 30th, 2019, 04:11 PM
8L/4D would probably work nicely if we want him to be more distinct from Torky.

I’m not opposed to 6L/5D though.

NecroBlade
July 7th, 2019, 02:44 PM
True, high Life would allow it to take LEAs to set up more devastating Pull/Crush turns. 8L/4D sounds good in that regard.

Astroking112
July 7th, 2019, 06:31 PM
Is anyone opposed to beginning testing at 8L/4D? With those stats and the current powers, I'd be fine with starting in the 180-200 point range.

Also, does anyone have any preferences for a name, species, class, or personality? There's a large variety of ones that would work for me. The species could be a different gibberish word than the Leyline Phantoms, and pretty much any non-synergistic class or personality works for me.

All Your Pie
July 16th, 2019, 02:07 AM
I worry somewhat that just cranking up survivability is more of a band-aid for the design's issues than an actual solution. I wouldn't vote against testing because of it, but if results still disappoint then that may be a sign we need a re-work here.

NecroBlade
July 18th, 2019, 03:20 PM
I worry somewhat that just cranking up survivability is more of a band-aid for the design's issues than an actual solution. I wouldn't vote against testing because of it, but if results still disappoint then that may be a sign we need a re-work here.

Absolutely agreed.

One suggestion for Class is Marauder: it was originally on the Hydra, and C3V has used it a few times at least in part because, with the Hydra part of that group, it's unlikely to ever get future synergy. (That said, we can, of course, look for another way to introduce synergy with the Scions if we so choose.)

Astroking112
July 18th, 2019, 04:26 PM
I'm definitely down for a rework if testing shows that increased stats isn't fundamentally fixing the problem.

I like Marauder for the class. It's vague enough to fit the space alien from a black hole vibe, and it's very likely a synergy-safe class. If the pod members who work on the Scions want synergy between these two units down the road, the species should be more than enough leeway to make that happen.

flameslayer93
July 18th, 2019, 06:14 PM
I don’t see anything wrong with reworking a unit if it just doesn’t work. I’d rather the unit be cooked right than a whole lot of burnt.

Marauder is good by me.

NecroBlade
July 28th, 2019, 02:48 PM
Looking good. I started it at 190. Get this thing a name and a personality and I think we're about ready to move forward.

Astroking112
July 30th, 2019, 12:17 AM
Spouting gibberish (surprisingly) isn't my specialty, but here's some ideas from the vast internet:

Khol'qal
Scrur'kuk
Thaelluns
Ozeal
Qhiegveas
Ziqas

These were intended as names, but they could also work as a species. I like the image of this guy being an inter-dimensional conquerer that was recruited by Valkrill.

For personality, I like Militaristic. Plenty of other things work, too, though. Since he's huge, we could go with Relentless without fear of Death Knight Bonding if we wanted, but it's not my favorite choice.

flameslayer93
July 30th, 2019, 02:17 PM
I kind of like Ozeal. We can even give it more of a gutteral sound with Ozuul. I’m not sure if that works better as the race or name though.

I don’t like militaritistic for the personality. A marauder or conquerer feels much more in like with Terrifying, Relentless, or anything else that makes him feel destructive. Terrifying is decent, and does reflect his gravity playing well enough.

NecroBlade
July 30th, 2019, 07:22 PM
Ozeal isn't bad. Ozuul puts the double-u of vacuum (space/black hole) in there.

I like Militaristic as something underutilized, but agree that it seems more like a destructive monster than a strategist. Other one-offs include: Menacing, Merciless, Reckless. And if we wanted to cross-pollinate from Marvel: Angry, Nihilist, Ruthless.

Astroking112
July 31st, 2019, 04:11 PM
I like Ozuul as a name well enough.

Out of the non-Militaristic personalities suggested, I lean towards Menacing or Merciless. Branching out to Nihilist could be interesting as well, although I think that it should really be Nihilistic.

I don't feel a strong conviction for any one personality, though I would like something that implies more of a story behind the figure. Militaristic and Nihilistic fit that boat to me, whereas Menacing/Terrifying and whatnot feel more purposefully vague, but I could settle for any of them.

NecroBlade
August 7th, 2019, 10:00 PM
I kind of like Nihilistic (which I agree should have been in place of Nihilist) both for having a little more personality and branching out.

Astroking112
August 8th, 2019, 08:43 PM
For the species, here's a quick alternative to gibberish:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Orbit_um_ein_rotierendes_schwarzes_Loch_%28thumbnail%29.gif

Kerr black holes rotate about a single axis. We could name the species Kerr as a reference to Ozuul being played with on a mostly flat plane (I've taken a quick look through other black hole-related options, but nothing else stood out as much to me).

Of course, if we don't like this, gibberish is always an option.

flameslayer93
August 8th, 2019, 10:42 PM
I like the idea of the species being pronounceable. Kerr sounds good to me. :)

NecroBlade
August 9th, 2019, 09:26 PM
I'm always down for a good reference. What about adding a little something to it a la Doggin, Gryphillin, or Trolticor?

Astroking112
August 9th, 2019, 09:34 PM
I'd be fine with that. Kerrin sounds a little weird to me, but there are plenty of other options.

Pumpkin_King
August 19th, 2019, 11:17 PM
Bumping!

Species:

Voidlord, Voidwalker, Betweener, Horizonist, Gravituum, Accretio.

PErsonality - Inscrutable?

Astroking112
August 21st, 2019, 01:41 PM
I like Nihilistic as the personality still. Inscrutable is interesting, but it feels more like an Eldritch theme than something out of a black hole to me.

If we don't like some variation of Kerr for the species, Accretio also sounds good.

Pumpkin_King
August 21st, 2019, 11:40 PM
I actually like Gravituum as a species name.

Astroking112
August 22nd, 2019, 12:12 AM
Gravituum doesn't sound quite right to me because it's so close to gravity. It feels a little too on the nose.

Pumpkin_King
August 22nd, 2019, 01:13 AM
That's fair. Accretio is named for the accretion disc around a black hole.

flameslayer93
August 22nd, 2019, 03:52 PM
Ran a HoB game with Ozuul and Pyria in what would seem to be his best kind of brawl. Heís a bit disappointing vs heroes, but mainly because heís envisioned to be so expensive. Maybe weíll need to make sure some heroes have low attack and defense to actively help him in this setting.

We can do it!

Astroking112
August 22nd, 2019, 04:31 PM
Both Pyria and Tetsuo Tyrell have a low defense already. I'm fine with heroes being the counter to Ozuul in general; in theory, he can tie down a lot of commons and deal damage before falling. I'd imagine that he'll perform better when AotV is mixed with normal HeroScape sets as a result, but I'm content so long as he feels fun to play with what we have as well.

Astroking112
August 29th, 2019, 01:37 PM
Kerr is still my favorite species name. Does anyone else have any thoughts they'd like to share on it?

I don't believe that capsocrates or All Your Pie have weighed in on this yet, so I'm curious if either of you have any preferences as well.

capsocrates
August 29th, 2019, 07:04 PM
I've been itching to get back into the AotV threads for a little while now. Unfortunately I have quite a few plans for the long weekend so I'm not sure how soon I'll get to it.

Maklar the Silver Prince
August 30th, 2019, 12:10 AM
Kerr is still my favorite species name. Does anyone else have any thoughts they'd like to share on it?

I don't believe that capsocrates or All Your Pie have weighed in on this yet, so I'm curious if either of you have any preferences as well.
Kerr sounds (just like) the word cur. Which kinda works if Ozuul is a space marauder, but it conjures up images of a space rascal as opposed to a big bad guy, to me at least. I think Kerr is a little wierd for the species.

I think some alien sounding gibberish is the way to go personally, although we might get there by building off a real name. Beelzebub has plenty of syllables and plenty of ways it could be modified. We could also play with prefix type thingies like Mort- or Grav- or something. Basically, I have no suggestion, other than I think Kerr sounds off.

flameslayer93
August 30th, 2019, 10:02 AM
Well, Ozuul’s class is Marauder MKSP. :p

Astroking112
August 30th, 2019, 01:00 PM
Kerr sounds (just like) the word cur. Which kinda works if Ozuul is a space marauder, but it conjures up images of a space rascal as opposed to a big bad guy, to me at least. I think Kerr is a little wierd for the species.

I think some alien sounding gibberish is the way to go personally, although we might get there by building off a real name. Beelzebub has plenty of syllables and plenty of ways it could be modified. We could also play with prefix type thingies like Mort- or Grav- or something. Basically, I have no suggestion, other than I think Kerr sounds off.

I can't say that I feel the same about Kerr, but I don't mind changing it if other people are bothered. I like how it's short and easily pronounceable, though, as opposed to most gibberish.

Pumpkin_King
August 31st, 2019, 02:13 AM
Gravoid might also be a good option.

NecroBlade
September 1st, 2019, 01:53 PM
"Kerr" is just too short to me. It doesn't really feel like it conveys anything.

Pumpkin_King
September 1st, 2019, 08:47 PM
We could put up a straw poll.

Astroking112
September 2nd, 2019, 02:17 PM
I don't really feel the need for a straw poll. There are only six of us, so it should hopefully be pretty easy to track support. ;)

NecroBlade The shortness doesn't bother me, but I know that earlier you expressed support for adding something to the end of Kerr like Doggin or Trolticor. If you have any suggestions for that, I'd be happy to hear them.

Gravoid is decent, although it still sounds a little too on the nose to me. Accretio is still my second pick, albeit the species doesn't matter very much to me anyway.

flameslayer93
September 8th, 2019, 02:51 PM
If Kerr is too short, I personally vote for Accretio.

Astroking112
September 8th, 2019, 03:11 PM
Accretio is my second pick as well.

Pumpkin_King
September 10th, 2019, 07:40 PM
My first pick is actually Gravituum but Accretio is a good second one.

NecroBlade
September 11th, 2019, 07:57 PM
I agree something like "Gravoid" is too on-the-nose. I don't have any specific objections to "Accretio", so I'll put that in the OP for now.

Astroking112
September 11th, 2019, 08:15 PM
Unless I'm missing anything major, I think that we're ready to go to Editing now. I vote YEA to move forward with the current OP.

Pumpkin_King
September 15th, 2019, 03:12 AM
:up: let’s go.

NecroBlade
September 15th, 2019, 09:21 AM
Yea.

flameslayer93
September 15th, 2019, 11:36 AM
:up: from me.

capsocrates
September 24th, 2019, 12:39 AM
Really really glad y'all didn't decide to name him after this guy
https://www.chicagotribune.com/resizer/aVvBUCtljGagDZEenWhilinkyXw=/800x1282/top/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tronc.s3.amazonaws.com/public/XYBNUOFQJZDXPESIKQLCLCTXU4.jpg
That would have been really strange.


--



:up: to move to Editing. This card is promising; I'm curious what the checklist will reveal.

NecroBlade
September 25th, 2019, 07:02 PM
That's 5/6 yea's and two weeks on the vote. Time to call it and move to Editing.

Astroking112
September 25th, 2019, 07:08 PM
It's time to page Scytale for running the checklist once he gets a chance, then.

capsocrates I don't follow basketball, but I'd imagine there are plenty of units that coincide with popular names. It could've been an excellent chance to throw a jersey on Ozuul and pioneer BasketScape, though. ;)

Scytale
September 25th, 2019, 07:17 PM
GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, you may place each non-adjacent Small or Medium figure within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul within 1 space of its current space. Figures can only be moved with Gravity Pull if they can be placed adjacent to Ozuul. Figures moved with Gravity Pull will not take leaving engagement attacks. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must attack with Gravity Crush Special Attack this turn.
Is there some reason for the wordiness? I fear I'm missing something. Why not do this?
GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, you may place any or all non-adjacent small or medium figures within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul adjacent to Ozuul. Figures moved with Gravity Pull will not take leaving engagement attacks. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must attack with Gravity Crush Special Attack this turn.

Astroking112
September 25th, 2019, 07:23 PM
The intent is to stop players from picking up a figure 2 spaces away from Ozuul and placing them on the opposite side, essentially moving them over him instead of directly towards him.

I'm not personally bothered by that quirk of him being able to swivel figures around him (in fact I like it more that way because it allows a bit more creativity and is much simpler), though I was in the minority when we discussed this.

NecroBlade
September 25th, 2019, 07:48 PM
Yep. We were trying to accomplish the thematic intent behind the power - pulling figures directly to Ozuul - without letting it move them up to 4 spaces plus elevation changes.

Scytale
September 25th, 2019, 07:56 PM
Ah, I misread it. I read the "its" in "within 1 space of its current space" as Ozuul. It's meant to be "that figure's."

Pumpkin_King
September 26th, 2019, 03:09 AM
Though the idea of sling-shotting friendly figures around has a certain goofy charm.

Scytale
September 26th, 2019, 12:52 PM
Though the idea of sling-shotting friendly figures around has a certain goofy charm.
And thematic for a gravity well. But it's also dangerously powerful as a repositioning trick for your own units.

Pumpkin_King
September 26th, 2019, 02:12 PM
Oh yeah, and that's why we ultimately excluded it.

Astroking112
September 26th, 2019, 02:14 PM
I think that it feels more classic to allow the slingshot for simplicity's sake. Major X17 can hop on Theracus from behind and jump off over the head to get extra movement that way, which reminds me of this. I also like the idea of Ozuul being able to control gravity more directly, since it makes him feel more powerful.

As it stands, this reminds me more of some of the more complicated D&D designs rather than the simple powers of Rise of the Valkyrie. That feels more like an expansion to me than something that should be in a brand-new introductory set.

As to the utility of repositioning your own figures, I feel that mandating that the player uses Gravity Crush Special Attack after a Pull already does a good job of mitigating that. Combined with the fact that it only has a range of 2 spaces, I don't think it's very appealing to either move a bunch or your own commons forward and attack all of them or to move Ozuul only one space to move a single figure three spaces.

flameslayer93
September 30th, 2019, 07:36 PM
Something much simpler could be...

Gravity Crush Special Attack
Range 1. Attack 4.
All figures adjacent to Ozuul are affected. Blah blah blah.

Gravity Well
Opponent’s figures that are adjacent to Ozuul may not move.

Pumpkin_King
September 30th, 2019, 11:26 PM
Or simply moving one figure adjacent to him after moving & before attacking. Think Grimnak.

flameslayer93
October 1st, 2019, 02:56 PM
Or simply moving one figure adjacent to him after moving & before attacking. Think Grimnak.

I donít really have a problem with this, especially since it was a talking point at the start of the thread. ;)

Astroking112
October 1st, 2019, 03:01 PM
If we remove the "within 1 space" limitations, I don't think that there is a big difference in functional complexity between pulling one figure and pulling multiple.

The simplification to Gravity Crush is more interesting. A static number of 4-5 also helps Ozuul be more effective when only engaged to a handful of figures, which was one of the issues in our preliminary testing. I'm not sure that it's unreasonably complex to count the number of engaged figures, but this does feel like a justified simplification to me.

lefton4ya
October 1st, 2019, 04:08 PM
How about
GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, you may place each non-adjacent Small or Medium figure within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul to another empty space within 2 spaces of Ozuul. Figures moved with Gravity Pull will not take leaving engagement attacks. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must attack with Gravity Crush Special Attack this turn.

Simplifies rules a bit but keeps with themed. Yes you can slingshot a friendly figure to the other side (so up to 5 spaces if you count 2-spaces of Ozuul) but I think it makes it more fun. Also, Gravity Crush would be more deadly if there was some kind of Cyberclaw that let people move around Ozuul but not disengage, or maybe steal from C3G Wonder Woman (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29567):
GRAVITY ENGAGEMENT
If Ozuul rolls a skull against a figure leaving an engagement with it, that figure may not leave the engagement with Ozuul this turn.

Pumpkin_King
October 1st, 2019, 08:32 PM
I do like the idea of a Cyberclaw.

All Your Pie
October 1st, 2019, 09:09 PM
Been thinking up other movement reducing or restricting powers. Nothing super solid yet, but how about:

WEIGHT OF ETERNITIES
(Opponentís) figures within 4 spaces of Ozuul may not move onto a space that is not within 4 spaces of Ozuul.

NecroBlade
October 1st, 2019, 09:47 PM
Been thinking up other movement reducing or restricting powers. Nothing super solid yet, but how about:

WEIGHT OF ETERNITIES
(Opponentís) figures within 4 spaces of Ozuul may not move onto a space that is not within 4 spaces of Ozuul.

Now that's something that hasn't been done. I like the theme and mechanics of the OP, but this makes sense, too. Maybe paired with a simplified SA?

GRAVITY REND SPECIAL ATTACK
Range Special. Attack 3/4.
All figures within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul are affected by Gravity Rend. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.

Although we lose out on the potential to buff Gravity Crush with Space Shrimpô by them being extra tough against SA's (though this would still have an even softer synergy).

Ericth74
October 1st, 2019, 10:09 PM
How about
GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, you may place each non-adjacent Small or Medium figure within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul to another empty space within 2 spaces of Ozuul. Figures moved with Gravity Pull will not take leaving engagement attacks. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must attack with Gravity Crush Special Attack this turn.

Simplifies rules a bit but keeps with themed. Yes you can slingshot a friendly figure to the other side (so up to 5 spaces if you count 2-spaces of Ozuul) but I think it makes it more fun. Also, Gravity Crush would be more deadly if there was some kind of Cyberclaw that let people move around Ozuul but not disengage, or maybe steal from C3G Wonder Woman (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29567):
GRAVITY ENGAGEMENT
If Ozuul rolls a skull against a figure leaving an engagement with it, that figure may not leave the engagement with Ozuul this turn.

Iíve always thought that this figure missed the boat with the gravity angle. It seems a little off. Stealing these powers from C3G Giant Man fits better in my opinion.

GIGANTIC REACH
Giant-Man may add 1 to his range when attacking a figure whose base is no more than 6 levels higher than his height or 6 levels lower than his base.

GIANT SWAT
If an opponent's small or medium figure moves adjacent to Giant-Man, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 15 or higher, the opponent's figure receives one wound, and you may place the figure on any unoccupied space within 2 clear sight spaces of Giant-Man. Figures can be affected by Giant Swat only as they move into engagement with Giant-Man. Figures moved by Giant Swat never take any leaving engagement attacks. A non-flying figure will receive any falling damage that may apply.

Astroking112
October 2nd, 2019, 12:30 PM
I'm not a big fan of abandoning the gravity theme for a more generic big monster feel. It's an intimidating alien-like sculpt, and I think that gravity is a much more interesting design field for the "big bad" of the set.

How do we feel about taking this back to Design for the time being? It seems like we're thinking about more substantial changes than simplifications to Gravity Pull and Gravity Crush.

Ericth74
October 2nd, 2019, 12:52 PM
I hear what you are saying but at the same time it's a big monster with 4 arms. The gravity theme kind of ignores that.


I'm not a big fan of abandoning the gravity theme for a more generic big monster feel. It's an intimidating alien-like sculpt, and I think that gravity is a much more interesting design field for the "big bad" of the set.

How do we feel about taking this back to Design for the time being? It seems like we're thinking about more substantial changes than simplifications to Gravity Pull and Gravity Crush.

Pumpkin_King
October 3rd, 2019, 07:47 PM
Yeah, we can definitely focus on the gravity theme with some simplifying it a bit.

capsocrates
October 7th, 2019, 02:19 AM
I feel like we're jumping the gun on all this simplification, but I won't object to going back to design in this case.

Pumpkin_King
October 9th, 2019, 01:08 AM
I think it's something to keep in mind - I doubt very many of the remaining figures are going to be too simple.

Astroking112
October 9th, 2019, 02:04 AM
True, but let's keep in mind that Ozuul is essentially the big bad of the set. We don't want to sacrifice him to the point that he isn't fun or interesting to play with/against. I think that our current direction is acceptable with some tweaks like this:

GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, you may place each non-adjacent small or medium figure within 2 spaces of Ozuul adjacent to him. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must use his Gravity Crush Special Attack and may not attack normally this turn.

GRAVITY CRUSH SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 4.
All figures adjacent to Ozuul are affected by Gravity Crush Special Attack.

That maintains the core of what we were going for (pull in figures and then wipe out as many as possible) while removing some of the excess complexity such as only being able to move them one space or relying heavily on the number of adjacent figures.

That said, AYP's Weight of Eternities also looks like a fun power to me, along with being intuitive and easy to understand. I wouldn't be opposed to a redesign to incorporate that.

Of course, we could always think of this classic power again as well. :p
GRAVITY CRUSH SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack Special.
When attacking with Gravity Crush Special Attack, roll X attack dice, where X is the height of the defending figure.

Pumpkin_King
October 9th, 2019, 02:17 AM
Would it be possible to give Weight to the squad?

All Your Pie
October 9th, 2019, 03:45 AM
I have a suspicion that Weight of Eternities would not be as mechanically clean as it read when I first wrote it out. Itís also more of a cheerleader ability than the shark or menacer that we probably want this guy to be. As for the squad, it sounds like kind of a flashy power for a unit that weíre probably hoping to come in at a lower point bracket. But itís something Iíll keep in mind going forward.

I like the simplified Pull+Crush. Iím happy to take that into some testing rather than going back to design without even giving it a try.

Pumpkin_King
October 9th, 2019, 04:40 AM
I do think we may have issues slingshotting people around but we’ll see.

All Your Pie
October 9th, 2019, 05:31 AM
If a chainfighter can do it, no reason this guy shouldnít be able to. Something the chainfighter canít do is lava dunk on most maps, though. With Gravity Pull being guaranteed, that could be a significant worry.

Should we make it so that the controller of each figure decides where it ends up next to Ozuul, rather than Ozuulís controller deciding for all of them? I would prefer that to a same level restriction which would severely limit the powerís ability to pull large numbers of units.

capsocrates
October 9th, 2019, 11:28 AM
It makes him more like a black hole than just a gravity well, which is interesting. I like it.

Pumpkin_King
October 9th, 2019, 04:25 PM
Depends on what would a shorter/simpler addition to the power, only moving one space or specifying the controller moves it.

All Your Pie
October 9th, 2019, 04:30 PM
GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, you may place each non-adjacent Small or Medium figure within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul within 1 space of its current space. Figures can only be moved with Gravity Pull if they can be placed adjacent to Ozuul. Figures moved with Gravity Pull will not take leaving engagement attacks. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must attack with Gravity Crush Special Attack this turn.

Vs.

GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, you may use Gravity Pull. Each player must place all non-adjacent figures they control within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul on any space adjacent to Ozuul, if possible. Figures moved with Gravity Pull will not take leaving engagement attacks. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must attack with Gravity Crush Special Attack this turn.

Marginally simpler, though I'm not sure the second wording is workable. If multiple players control figures within 2 spaces of Ozuul, do we need to specify in which order those players chose to place their figures? Can we simplify it further by specifying that only opponent's figures are affected and removing the must use gravity crush requirement?

I'll also note that the "within 1 space of its current space, must be placed adjacent to Ozuul" wording in the first power is always going to be tortured no matter how we simplify the rest of it. Anyone reading that power for the first time is likely to be a little confused as to how it works.

Astroking112
October 9th, 2019, 04:35 PM
Lava dunking is a great point that would likely lead to a lot of unfun interactions with Ozuul on certain maps. Lets take a stab at preventing it:


GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, you may use Gravity Pull. Each non-adjacent small or medium figure within 2 spaces of Ozuul must be placed on an empty space adjacent to him by the player that controls that figure. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must use his Gravity Crush Special Attack and may not attack normally this turn.

We could probably clean this up more still, but my impression is that this is significantly more approachable than the within 1 space restriction.

Edit: :ninja:'d.

Pumpkin_King
October 11th, 2019, 09:46 PM
AYP’s wording seems okay, but I don’t have an editor’s eye.

Astroking112
October 15th, 2019, 10:26 PM
GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, you may use Gravity Pull. Each player must place all non-adjacent figures they control within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul on any space adjacent to Ozuul, if possible. Figures moved with Gravity Pull will not take leaving engagement attacks. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must attack with Gravity Crush Special Attack this turn.

Marginally simpler, though I'm not sure the second wording is workable. If multiple players control figures within 2 spaces of Ozuul, do we need to specify in which order those players chose to place their figures? Can we simplify it further by specifying that only opponent's figures are affected and removing the must use gravity crush requirement?

That wording seems fine to me (and I greatly prefer it to the "within 1 space" wording).

My general rule for choosing the order of this sort of power has always been that the controlling player gets to choose what order the figures are affected (unless it's Mimring, because Fire Line is weird), which generally avoids problems.

That certainly works well for powers such as Explosions and whatnot, though choosing players instead of figures does muddy the waters a little bit. I don't think that it's unreasonable to say that the same can apply, though if we need to change it to choosing figures instead of players, it's still relatively simple:

GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, you may use Gravity Pull. Each non-adjacent small or medium figure within 2 spaces of Ozuul must be placed on an empty space adjacent to him by the player that controls that figure. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must use his Gravity Crush Special Attack and may not attack normally this turn.

Pumpkin_King
October 17th, 2019, 05:21 AM
I think that’s about as simple as we’re gonna get it.

Scytale
October 17th, 2019, 12:43 PM
GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, you may use Gravity Pull. Each player must place all non-adjacent figures they control within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul on any space adjacent to Ozuul, if possible. Figures moved with Gravity Pull will not take leaving engagement attacks. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must attack with Gravity Crush Special Attack this turn.

Marginally simpler, though I'm not sure the second wording is workable. If multiple players control figures within 2 spaces of Ozuul, do we need to specify in which order those players chose to place their figures? Can we simplify it further by specifying that only opponent's figures are affected and removing the must use gravity crush requirement?

That wording seems fine to me (and I greatly prefer it to the "within 1 space" wording).

My general rule for choosing the order of this sort of power has always been that the controlling player gets to choose what order the figures are affected (unless it's Mimring, because Fire Line is weird), which generally avoids problems.

That certainly works well for powers such as Explosions and whatnot, though choosing players instead of figures does muddy the waters a little bit. I don't think that it's unreasonable to say that the same can apply, though if we need to change it to choosing figures instead of players, it's still relatively simple:

GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, you may use Gravity Pull. Each non-adjacent small or medium figure within 2 spaces of Ozuul must be placed on an empty space adjacent to him by the player that controls that figure. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must use his Gravity Crush Special Attack and may not attack normally this turn.
Who chooses the order they are placed?

Astroking112
October 17th, 2019, 02:09 PM
For my "each non-adjacent figure must be placed by the player that controls that figure" wording, I think that it would be decided by the player controlling Ozuul. It seems logical to me to follow the precedent set by Deathwalker 9000 and other powers that affect multiple figures.

For the "each player must place all non-adjacent figures" wording, I'm not quite sure. No precedent to rely on comes to mind there. I'd like for the Ozuul player to get to choose the order of the players still, though. Either way, we'll probably want an R&C like for Deathwalker 9000 to make sure that it's clear.

Scytale
October 17th, 2019, 02:18 PM
For the "each player must place all non-adjacent figures" wording, I'm not quite sure. No precedent to rely on comes to mind there. I'd like for the Ozuul player to get to choose the order of the players still, though. Either way, we'll probably want an R&C like for Deathwalker 9000 to make sure that it's clear.
I don't think we can simply R&C this one. The order that figures are placed is pretty crucial, not something we should bury in an R&C.

Astroking112
October 17th, 2019, 02:59 PM
For the "each player must place all non-adjacent figures" wording, I'm not quite sure. No precedent to rely on comes to mind there. I'd like for the Ozuul player to get to choose the order of the players still, though. Either way, we'll probably want an R&C like for Deathwalker 9000 to make sure that it's clear.
I don't think we can simply R&C this one. The order that figures are placed is pretty crucial, not something we should bury in an R&C.

I do prefer the other option because it isn't really breaking new ground. It does run into the Deathwalker 9000 problem of not clearly specifying the order, but I've always thought that was an intuitive ruling.

I don't mean that we can rely on a R&C here; I just mean that I'd like a R&C for this, regardless of what we decide on, to make sure that everything is crystal clear.

Scytale
October 17th, 2019, 03:04 PM
I do prefer the other option because it isn't really breaking new ground. It does run into the Deathwalker 9000 problem of not clearly specifying the order, but I've always thought that was an intuitive ruling.
I've never thought it was intuitive, and this is not only different but worse. The rulebook only talks about this ordering in the context of an attack, not a special power like this. Additionally, that doesn't usually matter (for example, when hitting a near-death Raelin along with others). For Gravity Pull it really matters. Who gets the high ground spot? Who is forced to the low position? It will matter often.

Is this power intended to be a sort of super-Carry? Because it is.

Astroking112
October 17th, 2019, 03:27 PM
I've never thought it was intuitive, and this is not only different but worse. The rulebook only talks about this ordering in the context of an attack, not a special power like this. Additionally, that doesn't usually matter (for example, when hitting a near-death Raelin along with others). For Gravity Pull it really matters. Who gets the high ground spot? Who is forced to the low position? It will matter often.

I always played Deathwalker 9000 that way even before finding Heroscapers and the official ruling. :shrug:

I do agree with you that this will matter more often. If I'm alone in thinking that it's the intuitive way to play these kinds of powers, then we can iron out some wording to clearly state the order.

If we wanted to go with AYP's wording, here's a quick draft:

GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, Ozuul may use Gravity Pull. One at a time, choose a player with at least one figure within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul. That player must place all non-adjacent figures that they control within 2 clear sight spaces on any empty space adjacent to Ozuul, if possible. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must use Gravity Crush Special Attack and cannot attack normally this turn.

This does let each player choose the order that they place their own figures in.

For choosing figures instead of players:

GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, Ozuul may use Gravity Pull. One at a time, choose a non-adjacent figure within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul. The player that controls that figure must place it on any empty space adjacent to Ozuul, if possible. Continue choosing figures until there are no non-adjacent figures within 2 clear sight spaces or there are no empty spaces adjacent to Ozuul. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must use his Gravity Crush Special Attack and may not attack normally this turn.

I'm not particularly fond of either wording, to be honest, though I hope that they adequately address the order problem with relatively little additional text.

Is this power intended to be a sort of super-Carry? Because it is.

It does have the potential to carry your teammates, though it requires you to attack them immediately afterwards. The idea of limiting it to opposing figures and dropping the requirement to use Gravity Crush Special Attack afterward was tossed around recently, though I don't find such selective gravity to be thematic.

Scytale
October 17th, 2019, 03:41 PM
I've never thought it was intuitive, and this is not only different but worse. The rulebook only talks about this ordering in the context of an attack, not a special power like this. Additionally, that doesn't usually matter (for example, when hitting a near-death Raelin along with others). For Gravity Pull it really matters. Who gets the high ground spot? Who is forced to the low position? It will matter often.

I always played Deathwalker 9000 that way even before finding Heroscapers and the official ruling. :shrug:

I do agree with you that this will matter more often. If I'm alone in thinking that it's the intuitive way to play these kinds of powers, then we can iron out some wording to clearly state the order.

If we wanted to go with AYP's wording, here's a quick draft:

GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, Ozuul may use Gravity Pull. One at a time, choose a player with at least one figure within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul. That player must place all non-adjacent figures that they control within 2 clear sight spaces on any empty space adjacent to Ozuul, if possible. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must use Gravity Crush Special Attack and cannot attack normally this turn.This does let each player choose the order that they place their own figures in.

For choosing figures instead of players:

GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, Ozuul may use Gravity Pull. One at a time, choose a non-adjacent figure within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul. The player that controls that figure must place it on any empty space adjacent to Ozuul, if possible. Continue choosing figures until there are no non-adjacent figures within 2 clear sight spaces or there are no empty spaces adjacent to Ozuul. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must use his Gravity Crush Special Attack and may not attack normally this turn.I'm not particularly fond of either wording, to be honest, though I hope that they adequately address the order problem with relatively little additional text.
Either way is good. It also needs leaving engagement wording (either way).


Is this power intended to be a sort of super-Carry? Because it is.

It does have the potential to carry your teammates, though it requires you to attack them immediately afterwards. The idea of limiting it to opposing figures and dropping the requirement to use Gravity Crush Special Attack afterward was tossed around recently, though I don't find such selective gravity to be thematic.
Depends on how much you are concerned about damaging your own figures. In the middle of a fight, this will be a safe and potentially potent repositioning of your own figures.

All Your Pie
October 17th, 2019, 04:50 PM
Personally, I don’t mind this being an ability that allows for some repositioning if you’re willing to take the risk. That’s an interesting tactical choice that doesn’t require us to further complicate the power in any way. Gives sort of a “simple at a glance, but with some hidden depths and tricks” feel to the power’s tactical use.

NecroBlade
October 19th, 2019, 03:42 PM
Definitely always preferred only moving your own figures if there was a risk. This wording seems good to me:

GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, Ozuul may use Gravity Pull. One at a time, choose a non-adjacent figure within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul. The player that controls that figure must place it on any empty space adjacent to Ozuul, if possible. Continue choosing figures until there are no non-adjacent figures within 2 clear sight spaces or there are no empty spaces adjacent to Ozuul. Figures moved with Gravity Pull do not take leaving engagement attacks. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must use his Gravity Crush Special Attack and may not attack normally this turn.

Pumpkin_King
October 19th, 2019, 06:30 PM
I like that wording, NB. It is more powerful though, letting you choose what order.

Astroking112
October 20th, 2019, 12:32 AM
GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, Ozuul may use Gravity Pull. One at a time, choose a non-adjacent figure within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul. The player that controls that figure must place it on any empty space adjacent to Ozuul, if possible. Continue choosing figures until there are no non-adjacent figures within 2 clear sight spaces or there are no empty spaces adjacent to Ozuul. Figures moved with Gravity Pull do not take leaving engagement attacks. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must use his Gravity Crush Special Attack and may not attack normally this turn.

Looks good to me. It's a bit wordy, but hopefully it's easier on the eyes than powers such as Jotun's throw and similarly easy to understand once you see it.

NecroBlade
October 27th, 2019, 09:52 AM
Before it goes in the OP, do we want to keep it limited to Small or Medium figures? That caveat seems to have gotten lost.

Pumpkin_King
October 29th, 2019, 04:17 AM
I mean, probably. Moving a double-spaced figure seems like a headache.

Astroking112
October 29th, 2019, 09:49 PM
I have a preference towards leaving it off to keep the wording ever so slightly simpler, but adding it back in wouldn't significantly bother me.

Pumpkin_King
October 31st, 2019, 09:52 PM
Let’s include it for now. I don’t think it makes everything too complex.

NecroBlade
November 8th, 2019, 09:53 AM
New Pull in the OP.

lefton4ya
November 8th, 2019, 11:07 AM
I feel like it should be hard to get away from him. Maybe a 3rd power or add text to previous power that is a weaker version of Cyberclaw:

All small or medium opponent's figures that occupy a space adjacent to Ozuul must count 2 extra spaces when leaving that space.
OR easier
All small or medium figures engaged to Ozuul must count 2 extra spaces when leaving engagement.

This makes it so Knights and other 4 move figures cannot get away from Ozuul, and even 5 move figures might have a tough time, depending if there is an elevation change. Also makes it so optimal placement is actually on low ground by hills, which is an interesting mechanic.

Pumpkin_King
November 8th, 2019, 02:05 PM
I'd caution against a third power. That may be something we can add to the void shrimps.

Astroking112
November 8th, 2019, 02:29 PM
I largely agree with Pumpkin_King here. While we are simplifying each power quite a bit, Gravity Pull is still wordy and has some complex interactions. Considering that it'll already be hard to escape from him since he can pull you back the next turn, I'm hesitant to add a third power unless it really adds a lot to the playstyle.

NecroBlade
November 17th, 2019, 02:04 PM
Agreed. Repeated Gravity Pulls is likely to already be enough "you can't escape" (plus we should have few if any 3-power cards in this set), though I do appreciate the creativity of the extended Cyberclaw idea.

Astroking112
December 3rd, 2019, 10:12 PM
New Pull in the OP.

I believe that we were also talking about this update to Gravity Crush:
GRAVITY CRUSH SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 4.
All figures adjacent to Ozuul are affected by Gravity Crush Special Attack.

The new Gravity Pull seems like it will be very daunting for a new player to me.

Pumpkin_King
December 5th, 2019, 05:21 PM
Is there a way we can simplify it?

lefton4ya
December 5th, 2019, 06:23 PM
GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, Ozuul may use Gravity Pull. One at a time, choose a each non-adjacent figure within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul. The player that controls that figure must place it on any empty space adjacent to Ozuul, if possible. Continue choosing figures until there are no non-adjacent figures within 2 clear sight spaces or there are no empty spaces adjacent to Ozuul. Figures moved with Gravity Pull do not take leaving engagement attacks. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must use his Gravity Crush Special Attack and may not attack normally this turn.

Removed superfluous words

Pumpkin_King
December 5th, 2019, 09:22 PM
That could work.

All Your Pie
December 6th, 2019, 05:31 PM
I showed the current stage of our designs to a less experienced 'scape player looking specifically for feedback on complexity/comprehension.

The response to Ozuul was actually quite positive. While they noted that Gravity Pull is a little wordy, they felt that the power's name communicated its intent clearly enough that it's usage would be clear. My impression of this is that Gravity Pull as-written is a power that they would be able to grasp how and when to use fairly intuitively while referring back to the card in order to settle the actual mechanics of it. In other words, complexity wouldn't stand in the way of the power actually being used, it would just slow down the process of using it somewhat.

I also got the sense that Ozuul has a certain attention-grabbing 'cool' factor to his design in the current stage that might not be as strong if we take a simplified direction.

This is only one perspective, though, and it's from a former MtG judge. More fresh eyes would still be useful to us here.

NecroBlade
December 8th, 2019, 02:31 PM
As long as not-currently-Heroscapers can get the gist of what it does, we might be OK. Though to be fair a Magic judge does have to be able to parse dense rules.

If we did want to go a simpler route, we could try this:

GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, choose a[n enemy] [small or medium] figure within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul. Place the chosen figure adjacent to Ozuul. Figures moved with Gravity Pull will not take leaving engagement attacks.

GRAVITY CRUSH SPECIAL ATTACK
Range Special. Attack 1 + Special.
All figures adjacent to Ozuul are affected by Gravity Crush Special Attack. Roll 1 attack die plus 1 additional attack die for each figure adjacent to Ozuul. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.


A lot fewer words on the card, and still allows the choice between one big normal attack (for when he's just sucked in that one figure) and GCSA (for when he pulls in a critical mass). We could also even drop the "enemy figure" bit from this version, to allow him to "carry" allies around, although bonus movement is already something we have plenty of in this set.

Astroking112
December 8th, 2019, 05:07 PM
Hmm. I think that Ozuul grabbing just one figure doesn't have the same oomph for the big bad of the set, especially if he still has the Special Attack that relies on him engaging multiple figures.

Mechanically, I think that the current Gravity Pull (choosing all figures one at a time and placing them in a loop) is harder to comprehend than Throw, which is already a pretty wordy power for what it does.

GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, Ozuul may use Gravity Pull. One at a time, choose a each non-adjacent figure within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul. The player that controls that figure must place it on any empty space adjacent to Ozuul, if possible. Continue choosing figures until there are no non-adjacent figures within 2 clear sight spaces or there are no empty spaces adjacent to Ozuul. Figures moved with Gravity Pull do not take leaving engagement attacks. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must use his Gravity Crush Special Attack and may not attack normally this turn.

I was going to comment that I don't think that removing the end conditions for the loop won't work, but upon further reflection I think that this could actually be okay. If there are no empty spaces adjacent to Ozuul, then it's no longer possible to keep choosing figures. Specifying one at a time already tells us that he's going to keep doing it until he can't anymore. I'm not an editor, but this seems like it could be a promising revision.

Throwing it all onto a card really quick so we can see how wordy it is:
https://i.imgur.com/lzleQBQ.jpg

Definitely wordy, but not as terrible as before. If we want to simplify it further, we could go with the straight 4 attack dice against all adjacent figures for his Gravity Crush, though I do like this iteration more.

Captain Stupendous
December 12th, 2019, 09:11 AM
Hmm. I think that Ozuul grabbing just one figure doesn't have the same oomph for the big bad of the set, especially if he still has the Special Attack that relies on him engaging multiple figures.

Mechanically, I think that the current Gravity Pull (choosing all figures one at a time and placing them in a loop) is harder to comprehend than Throw, which is already a pretty wordy power for what it does.

GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, Ozuul may use Gravity Pull. One at a time, choose a each non-adjacent figure within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul. The player that controls that figure must place it on any empty space adjacent to Ozuul, if possible. Continue choosing figures until there are no non-adjacent figures within 2 clear sight spaces or there are no empty spaces adjacent to Ozuul. Figures moved with Gravity Pull do not take leaving engagement attacks. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must use his Gravity Crush Special Attack and may not attack normally this turn.

I was going to comment that I don't think that removing the end conditions for the loop won't work, but upon further reflection I think that this could actually be okay. If there are no empty spaces adjacent to Ozuul, then it's no longer possible to keep choosing figures. Specifying one at a time already tells us that he's going to keep doing it until he can't anymore. I'm not an editor, but this seems like it could be a promising revision.

Throwing it all onto a card really quick so we can see how wordy it is:
https://i.imgur.com/lzleQBQ.jpg

Definitely wordy, but not as terrible as before. If we want to simplify it further, we could go with the straight 4 attack dice against all adjacent figures for his Gravity Crush, though I do like this iteration more.

Just wanted to say I like the overall direction this guy is going in, and offer a quick suggestion. What would you all think of changing Ozuul's species to Outsider? The miniature certainly shares several characteristics of the revealed Outsider faction miniatures from the upcoming c3v faction. Even the "two arms branching out into two more arms" thing he's got going on is seen in another unreleased unit of this faction. Of the units revealed, he'd have some synergy with the Children of the Dark Star, but without access behind the c3v curtain its hard to say in what other ways he'd tie in to the faction's synergy. I think it is just a possible way to tie Ozuul and the Scions into the greater heroscape canon thematically.

Scytale
December 12th, 2019, 01:22 PM
https://i.imgur.com/lzleQBQ.jpg


While the concept isn't too complicated, that does not look like a starter set card.

flameslayer93
December 12th, 2019, 04:05 PM
What do you think would make it more fitting? An overhaul? Do you feel its worse than Hulk or Torky?

Scytale
December 12th, 2019, 05:08 PM
What do you think would make it more fitting? An overhaul? Do you feel its worse than Hulk or Torky?
I do think it's more complicated than Hulk or Tor-Kul-Na. (Moving other player's units always will be.) I definitely do not think it would have fit in Rise of the Valkyrie. That doesn't make it wrong for this project, necessarily.

Captain Stupendous
December 12th, 2019, 08:23 PM
What do you think would make it more fitting? An overhaul? Do you feel its worse than Hulk or Torky?
I do think it's more complicated than Hulk or Tor-Kul-Na. (Moving other player's units always will be.) I definitely do not think it would have fit in Rise of the Valkyrie. That doesn't make it wrong for this project, necessarily.

What if we combined the two powers into a single special attack?

GRAVITY CRUSH SPECIAL ATTACK
Range Special. Attack 1 + Special.
All figures within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul are affected by Gravity Crush Special Attack. Roll 1 attack die plus 1 additional attack die for each figure within 2 clear sight spaces. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. After attacking with Gravity Crush Special Attack, choose a non-adjacent Small or Medium figure within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul and move it 1 space. This figure must end this move on a space adjacent to Ozuul, if possible. Continue choosing figures until there are no non-adjacent figures within 2 clear sight spaces or there are no empty spaces adjacent to Ozuul. Figures moved with Gravity Crush Special Attack do not take leaving engagement attacks.

I also changed the wording on the pull part of the power from a placement to a single space move. This would mean that Ozuul could no longer pull enemies or allies onto height (which is actually kind of thematic, since it is a gravity based power), eliminates the ability to swivel figures around him, and also makes it much harder for him to lava-dunk enemies. Unfortunately, it does rely on the "must end this move adjacent if possible" wording from the Kozuke to prevent the Ozuul player from moving a figure away from Ozuul if there is no space adjacent to him.

Here's another alternate wording that might be even better? It's certainly more concise.

GRAVITY CRUSH SPECIAL ATTACK
Range Special. Attack 1 + Special.
All figures within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul are affected by Gravity Crush Special Attack. Roll 1 attack die plus 1 additional attack die for each figure within 2 clear sight spaces. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. After a small or medium figure rolls defense dice against this attack, move that figure 1 space closer to Ozuul, if possible. Figures moved with Gravity Crush Special Attack do not take leaving engagement attacks.

The Long eared bat
December 13th, 2019, 01:49 PM
This removes to problem of moving other player's units, but keeps the original direction and theme.

GRAVITY PULL
If there is an unrevealed order marker on Ozuul's army card, all small and medium figures within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul can not move further away from Ozuul, normally or with any special power on any Army Card or glyph.

GRAVITY CRUSH SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 2. Attack 1+ Special.
All figures within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul are affected by Gravity Crush Special Attack. Roll 1 attack die plus 1 additional attack die for each figure within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.

flameslayer93
December 13th, 2019, 03:17 PM
If we have to refrain from moving figures I like a range 2 cyberclaw effect. Maybe even let him tie down Large minis like the Pride.

If we want to go with a range 2 Gravity Crush, I think we are better off setting the # of dice to 3 or 4 max. “Aura attacks” are usually very strong and devastating and we don’t want a unit who can solo melee skirmishes on an easily gotten 3 skull roll.

So:
Gravity Pull: Small, Medium, and Large figures within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul cannot move normally or be moved by any special power.

Gravity Crush Special Attack: R2. A3. All figures within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul are affected by Gravity Crush. Roll attack dice once for all figures.

Scytale
December 13th, 2019, 05:56 PM
What if we combined the two powers into a single special attack?
That makes it harder to understand, not easier.

GRAVITY PULL
If there is an unrevealed order marker on Ozuul's army card, all small and medium figures within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul can not move further away from Ozuul, normally or with any special power on any Army Card or glyph.
"Cannot move farther away" will not work. Heroscape doesn't exist on a simple 2-dimensional grid; there are actually multiple ways to count distance. For example, if the figure jumps one space off a cliff, it is suddenly far away from Ozuul, even though it's only 2 clear sight spaces.

NecroBlade
December 13th, 2019, 09:21 PM
Yeah, closer/farther away would simplify wording, but unfortunately don't actually exist in 'scape. Arguably they could, but even if we were C3V I don't know if it would pass.

Anyway, I honestly see Gravity Pull on the same level as Jotun's Throw and Tor-Kul-Na's Trample Stomp: wordy, yes, but the concept is intuitive enough that you just occasionally have to dig in for the specifics. And one of those was in a Master Set (with the other early in the game's lifespan).

All Your Pie
December 13th, 2019, 10:33 PM
Iím happy with Gravity Pull as-is as long as we simplify Gravity Crush to use a static attack value of 3 or 4.

The Long eared bat
December 14th, 2019, 09:13 AM
GRAVITY PULL
If there is an unrevealed order marker on Ozuul's army card, all small and medium figures within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul can not move further away from Ozuul, normally or with any special power on any Army Card or glyph.

That is easily changed to:
If there is an unrevealed order marker on Ozuul's army card, all small and medium figures within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul can not move further than 2 clear sight spaces away from Ozuul, normally or with any special power on any Army Card or glyph.

NecroBlade
December 22nd, 2019, 10:13 PM
Iím happy with Gravity Pull as-is as long as we simplify Gravity Crush to use a static attack value of 3 or 4.
Why do you feel Gravity Crush needs to be a static number?


GRAVITY PULL
If there is an unrevealed order marker on Ozuul's army card, all small and medium figures within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul can not move further away from Ozuul, normally or with any special power on any Army Card or glyph.

That is easily changed to:
If there is an unrevealed order marker on Ozuul's army card, all small and medium figures within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul can not move further than 2 clear sight spaces away from Ozuul, normally or with any special power on any Army Card or glyph.

As I said last time this power was brought up, I appreciate the outside the box thinking, but it's not my favorite direction. Worth exploring if the current direction doesn't work out maybe, but would probably need another, different complimentary power as well.

All Your Pie
December 22nd, 2019, 11:34 PM
Maybe I'm misremembering, but I thought we ran some tests with Gravity Crush as "attack equal to number of engaged figures" and it proved pretty disappointing in practice. I would be tentatively fine with it if it was a mechanic that felt very cool and fun to use, but the variable attack value wasn't making the design any stronger or more fun to play than it would be with a static value.

Pumpkin_King
December 23rd, 2019, 12:36 AM
Gravity crush having a static number feels like an obvious place to trim fat.

NecroBlade
January 5th, 2020, 05:26 PM
Maybe I'm misremembering, but I thought we ran some tests with Gravity Crush as "attack equal to number of engaged figures" and it proved pretty disappointing in practice. I would be tentatively fine with it if it was a mechanic that felt very cool and fun to use, but the variable attack value wasn't making the design any stronger or more fun to play than it would be with a static value.

Gravity crush having a static number feels like an obvious place to trim fat.

I'm not entirely opposed to it, but all we did so far was make it "1 + Special" because just "Special" was what had too few dice to feel effective. The current version allows Ozuul to be the devastating Big Badô of the set, while also leaving open potential synergy from the Space Shrimpô (for example Hardened by the Void: double shields vs. Special Attacks). Of course, if it still doesn't playtest well, then it is a reasonable place to make a change.

Pumpkin_King
January 6th, 2020, 03:51 AM
I don’t think 1+ will be devastating to anything but rats.

NecroBlade
January 11th, 2020, 06:45 PM
I donít think 1+ will be devastating to anything but rats.

I don't see how something can be devastating to Rats and not anything else. Being a SA gets around Scatter, sure, but they still have 4 Defense which is more than a lot of things. In any case, another Rat counter would be a net gain, lol.

Astroking112
January 14th, 2020, 02:48 PM
My understanding was that even the "1 + Special" Attack on Gravity Crush led to a lot of frustration when playing Ozuul. If he only gets engaged to one or two figures at a time, then the 3 dice is underwhelming and by the time that he freed himself, his targets had split and the damage was done.

Changing Gravity Crush to a static number reduces this frustration while also significantly cutting down on the complexity to play Ozuul. Even if players can only engage two figures with Gravity Pull, a static 4 dice against both can be pretty enticing, so he still has interesting decisions to make. In his best scenarios, it's still effective against 4+ opponents (the likelihood of him getting 6 dice or more is pretty low in normal play), so it mostly just evens out his scaling and makes him more consistent and approachable in my understanding.

Considering how rules-heavy and wordy Gravity Pull has to be, I think that it would be a good idea to simplify Gravity Crush to the static 4 dice. Ozuul's the big bad of the set, but if the "1 + Special" is still disappointing in practice, then it makes sense to make him more approachable while maintaining the same anti-swarm playstyle.

Pumpkin_King
January 21st, 2020, 04:37 AM
Bump. I agree with Astro. Letís have the static number and keep a more complex Crush in mind. If we feel as though heís missing something in PT we bring him back.

NecroBlade
January 22nd, 2020, 05:15 PM
So we're talking about replacing this:

GRAVITY CRUSH SPECIAL ATTACK
Range Special. Attack 1 + Special.
All figures adjacent to Ozuul are affected by Gravity Crush Special Attack. Roll 1 attack die plus 1 additional attack die for each figure adjacent to Ozuul. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.

with this:

GRAVITY CRUSH SPECIAL ATTACK
Range Special. Attack 3/4.
All figures adjacent to Ozuul are affected by Gravity Crush Special Attack. Roll 3/4 attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.

If we start it at 3, that's already what the current version gets vs 2 figures, so it's only stronger vs 1 figure and weaker vs 3+. If we start it at 4, it's better vs 1 or 2, the same at 3, and weaker vs 4+. It does cut out 14 words, but only a tiny bit in terms of complexity (x + y). Personally, I think that's OK on the "big bad" and only Huge figure of the set.

Pumpkin_King
January 23rd, 2020, 03:52 PM
Yes, I legitimately think that the second power would be better for him, set at 4.

NecroBlade
January 31st, 2020, 07:45 PM
I'll update the OP with a static 4 if that's the way we want to go. What do we think about changing the power names a little as well? Without being dependant on adjacent figures, Crush doesn't have as much of a "Gravity" feel any more. Maybe we can go a little more generic to match. Vortex Pull/Crushing Vortex?

Pumpkin_King
February 1st, 2020, 03:35 AM
Singularity Strike
Vortex Strike
Vortex Smash
Graviton Flux
Rend Reality
Gravity Lapse
Momentary Lapse
Density Flux

I'm still imagining him briefly lifting and then slamming down the enemies around him (https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/heroes/sigma/) as the flavor for it.

Astroking112
February 1st, 2020, 02:44 PM
I don't have any real qualms with re-theming him around a Vortex rather than Gravity, although it does sound a little vague on its own. My preference would probably be Gravity Pull and Crushing Vortex Special Attack, just to keep the theme behind his origin from a black hole.

NecroBlade
February 15th, 2020, 07:17 PM
I don't have any real qualms with re-theming him around a Vortex rather than Gravity, although it does sound a little vague on its own. My preference would probably be Gravity Pull and Crushing Vortex Special Attack, just to keep the theme behind his origin from a black hole.

I like that, actually.

Astroking112
February 17th, 2020, 06:40 PM
VALKRILL :valkrill:
OZUUL
Species Accretio
Unique Hero
Class Marauder
Personality Nihilistic
SIZE HEIGHT Huge 10

LIFE 8
MOVE 5 / BASIC 5
RANGE 1 / BASIC 1
ATTACK 6 / BASIC 8
DEFENSE 4 / BASIC 8

190 POINTS

GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, Ozuul may use Gravity Pull. One at a time, choose a non-adjacent Small or Medium figure within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul. The player that controls that figure must place it on any empty space adjacent to Ozuul, if possible. Continue choosing figures until there are no non-adjacent figures within 2 clear sight spaces or there are no empty spaces adjacent to Ozuul. Figures moved with Gravity Pull do not take leaving engagement attacks. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must use his Crushing Vortex Special Attack and may not attack normally this turn.

CRUSHING VORTEX SPECIAL ATTACK
Range Special. Attack 4.
All figures adjacent to Ozuul are affected by Crushing Vortex Special Attack. Roll 4 attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.

Great. I think that we're ready to vote on sending this one back to Editing. YEA from me.

Pumpkin_King
February 17th, 2020, 11:34 PM
YEA from me too. Looks good.

flameslayer93
February 18th, 2020, 03:16 PM
Give it a shot. Yes to editing.

NecroBlade
February 22nd, 2020, 10:00 AM
Yea

Pumpkin_King
February 22nd, 2020, 11:01 PM
Real quick - are we sold on "Accretio"? Over time it's rubbed me the wrong way. It sounds like a musical term.

Captain Stupendous
February 23rd, 2020, 06:55 PM
Real quick - are we sold on "Accretio"? Over time it's rubbed me the wrong way. It sounds like a musical term.

I'd mentioned this idea earlier in the thread, but I don't think anyone responded at the time.

What would you all think of changing Ozuul's species to Outsider? The miniature certainly shares several characteristics of the previewed Outsider faction miniatures from the upcoming c3v faction. Even the "two arms branching out into two more arms" thing he's got going on is seen in another unreleased unit of this faction. Of the units revealed, he'd have some synergy with the Children of the Dark Star, but without access behind the c3v curtain its hard to say in what other ways he'd tie in to the faction's synergy. I think it is just a possible way to tie Ozuul and the Scions (and this master set, by extension) into the greater heroscape canon thematically. You could even make his class "Herald" or "Harbinger" and then develop the story of the set so that he is the first of the Outsiders to arrive on Valhalla.


For reference, here's the links to some of the other outsider miniatures that have been announced in the c3v Public Miniature Information thread:

https://i.imgur.com/8Xv38Yq.jpg

https://cdn.paizo.com/image/product/catalog/WZK/WZK71244-8-24.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/HzSh6aW.jpg

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/272880084573093891/501770155962007552/image0.jpg

Pumpkin_King
February 23rd, 2020, 07:22 PM
I'm not sure I'm sold on making him an Outsider - completely understand the thematic similarity between them, and the argument of tying him into the fan-canon is compelling.

However I would be concerned about limiting/stepping on the toes of an in-development faction. It might be something I'd bring to them if enough people on this end wanted it.

All Your Pie
February 23rd, 2020, 07:58 PM
I'm agreed with PK on not liking Accretio, and I apologize for not voicing that earlier.

The only thing I dislike about making this unit an Outsider is that it lacks a d20 ability to be boosted by the Children's Spirits of the Void. The more I think on it, though, that may not be a dealbreaker. It actually benefits us if Ozuul doesn't mesh with the children quite so well, considering they aren't being designed with him in mind anyway.

I think, however, that testing would become tricky. We would need to keep Ozuul on hold within testing until the Children are finalized, at which point we could still only have the C3V sanctum members among us actually run tests on the Children/Ozuul army. That is something perfectly within reason for us to do, it's just a little complex and uncertain.

flameslayer93
February 23rd, 2020, 08:59 PM
Not being within the C3V means I donít know the intents behind the Outsider faction, such as their roots or general intended playstyle. If the Outsiders are intended to be played together and with heavy synergy webs, it might seem off putting here when Ozuul doesnít match. If the Outsiders are supposed to feel Lovecraftian, I suppose we can put a Lovecraftian spin on him, but we canít do that without trade secrets. And obviously we have to factor in the Children of the Abyss who arenít released yet.

Iím not saying we shouldnít go with Outsider, just that we need to really have to know what weíre doing before we do it. Calling Ozzy a generic made up alien race ignores that, and still lets us drive his backstory into whatever flavor we want/need it to be.

But, Accretio is fine by me. Outsider can be fine too, with a more sufficient argument than ďc3v made it upĒ.

Pumpkin_King
February 23rd, 2020, 09:06 PM
The Lovecraft universe is wide enough that we really don't have to do anything to spin him. Coming from a black hole is enough.

flameslayer93
February 23rd, 2020, 09:56 PM
I guess I should point out that I know next to nothing about Lovecraftian-ness so that’s the main reason I’m not directly opposed to it. :lol:

All Your Pie
February 23rd, 2020, 10:29 PM
To be clear, the Eldrazi are themselves fairly lovecraftian in design and inspiration. We obviously don't have to stick to that completely, but that through line will always be present in the design of the miniature.

Pumpkin_King
February 23rd, 2020, 10:46 PM
We've gotten a tenative go-ahead on making him an Outsider. What's our general feeling on Outsider Harbinger/Herald?

Astroking112
February 27th, 2020, 04:52 PM
Accretio was never my favorite species, but it doesn't particularly bother me. There were several suggestions back around that time that we could fall back on if needed.

What does Ozuul being an Outsider bring to the design? We can certainly tie it into the story of the set and market it as him being a Harbinger of the upcoming Outsider faction, but I don't really see much other benefit here. Ironically, he is unlikely to be released before any of the Outsiders (given that we're going for a mass release of the set), his unpainted nature conflicts with them visually, and he doesn't play particularly nicely with them.

Without spoiling anything about the upcoming C3V faction, the main potential for synergy would be in the Children of the Dark Star currently in Public Playtesting (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=166). There's some potential for the Order Marker Sign of the Outer Gods mechanic for sure, but Ozuul has no D20 ability and a relatively low threat range but high collateral damage makes juggling turns between the two of them less appealing.

I'm not particularly opposed to making him an Outsider here, but these are all things that we should keep in mind.

Pumpkin_King
February 27th, 2020, 08:21 PM
Species:

Voidlord, Voidwalker, Betweener, Horizonist, Gravituum, Accretio.



Let's go back to this list I posted. If not Outsider, I still like Gravituum.


Some others:
Neutronian
Voidspawn
Quasaran
Singularion

NecroBlade
March 1st, 2020, 11:35 AM
If Outsider, I actually kind of like that Ozuul doesn't maximize synergy. In the fan era, there is a tendency to button everything up neatly, and it's OK not to do that 100% of the time. That said, despite the Lovecraftian influences, I think I agree that his unpainted-ness sets him apart (makes him an Outsider even among the Outsiders). I'm fine with Outsider with C3V's blessing and if that's the way we want to go. But for right now I think I lean Voidspawn (thinking on it, I actually don't think we're doing ourselves any favors by coming up with a wtf species name here for its own sake).

Pumpkin_King
March 1st, 2020, 03:47 PM
Voidspawn is a good one, leaves open design space.

Astroking112
March 4th, 2020, 12:37 AM
Bringing up an old post from this thread as another idea for the species name. I'm not very attached to the species, though, so I'd be fine with going with whatever the majority wants. I do feel a little better about not going with Outsider, of course, just because the sheer purple aesthetic of Ozuul really clashes with the detailed designs of the other minis over there.

For the species, here's a quick alternative to gibberish:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Orbit_um_ein_rotierendes_schwarzes_Loch_%28thumbnail%29.gif

Kerr black holes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotating_black_hole) rotate about a single axis. We could name the species Kerr as a reference to Ozuul being played with on a mostly flat plane (I've taken a quick look through other black hole-related options, but nothing else stood out as much to me).

Of course, if we don't like this, gibberish is always an option.

Pumpkin_King
March 4th, 2020, 01:21 AM
I think I’m still leaning to Voidspawn.

NecroBlade
March 13th, 2020, 10:10 PM
Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and put Voidspawn in the OP. IMO, being more generic makes him stand out more like some rare, epic destructive force, rather than just being part of some species of things that may or may not populate the universe.

Pumpkin_King
March 15th, 2020, 03:28 AM
I'm good with that! Where are we at with him, now?

Pumpkin_King
March 30th, 2020, 09:35 PM
Bumping! Can we get him to PT soon?

Scytale
March 31st, 2020, 11:59 AM
Is this back to the Editing phase?

Astroking112
March 31st, 2020, 12:16 PM
Is this back to the Editing phase?

It looks like our vote was a bit derailed, but we have the majority and a good amount of time has passed. I think that we're ready to move back to Editing here.

NecroBlade
March 31st, 2020, 04:20 PM
Is this back to the Editing phase?

It looks like our vote was a bit derailed, but we have the majority and a good amount of time has passed. I think that we're ready to move back to Editing here.

:up:

As much as I liked Crushing Vortex basing dice off number of adjacent figures, I do think static 4 is the right call here given the complexity of Gravity Pull.

I'm curious if, while we're Editing, anyone thinks this might be better? Cuts out a few words overall, and cuts down on GP's wall of text.

GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, Ozuul may use Gravity Pull. One at a time, choose a non-adjacent Small or Medium figure within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul. The player that controls that figure must place it on any empty space adjacent to Ozuul, if possible. Continue choosing figures until there are no non-adjacent figures within 2 clear sight spaces or there are no empty spaces adjacent to Ozuul. Figures moved with Gravity Pull do not take leaving engagement attacks. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must use his Crushing Vortex Special Attack and may not attack normally this turn.

CRUSHING VORTEX SPECIAL ATTACK
Range Special. Attack 4.
Ozuul must use his Crushing Vortex Special Attack if he used Gravity Pull this turn. All figures adjacent to Ozuul are affected by Crushing Vortex Special Attack. Roll 4 attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.

Pumpkin_King
March 31st, 2020, 04:33 PM
Looks fine to me.

NecroBlade
March 31st, 2020, 05:02 PM
There you go, Pumpkin_King, Floyd wrote the bio for you on this one. :rofl:

japes
March 31st, 2020, 05:15 PM
Thanks guys. Bug squashed.

Pumpkin_King
March 31st, 2020, 06:14 PM
Oh no did I miss bot spam?

Astroking112
May 7th, 2020, 02:31 AM
GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, Ozuul may use Gravity Pull. One at a time, choose a non-adjacent Small or Medium figure within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul. The player that controls that figure must place it on any empty space adjacent to Ozuul, if possible. Continue choosing figures until there are no non-adjacent figures within 2 clear sight spaces or there are no empty spaces adjacent to Ozuul. Figures moved with Gravity Pull do not take leaving engagement attacks. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must use his Crushing Vortex Special Attack and may not attack normally this turn.

CRUSHING VORTEX SPECIAL ATTACK
Range Special. Attack 4.
Ozuul must use his Crushing Vortex Special Attack if he used Gravity Pull this turn. All figures adjacent to Ozuul are affected by Crushing Vortex Special Attack. Roll 4 attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.

While this splits up the text a bit better between the powers, I'm not sure if it's easier to read or not for a newer player (and I'd be a little concerned about people missing the clause that they have to use the Special Attack if it's outside of the power, even though it reasonably should still be seen).

If this change doesn't cause any Editing headaches, then I don't really have a strong preference either way.

Scytale
May 7th, 2020, 06:35 PM
Is this back to the Editing phase?

It looks like our vote was a bit derailed, but we have the majority and a good amount of time has passed. I think that we're ready to move back to Editing here.

:up:

As much as I liked Crushing Vortex basing dice off number of adjacent figures, I do think static 4 is the right call here given the complexity of Gravity Pull.

I'm curious if, while we're Editing, anyone thinks this might be better? Cuts out a few words overall, and cuts down on GP's wall of text.

GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, Ozuul may use Gravity Pull. One at a time, choose a non-adjacent Small or Medium figure within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul. The player that controls that figure must place it on any empty space adjacent to Ozuul, if possible. Continue choosing figures until there are no non-adjacent figures within 2 clear sight spaces or there are no empty spaces adjacent to Ozuul. Figures moved with Gravity Pull do not take leaving engagement attacks. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must use his Crushing Vortex Special Attack and may not attack normally this turn.

CRUSHING VORTEX SPECIAL ATTACK
Range Special. Attack 4.
Ozuul must use his Crushing Vortex Special Attack if he used Gravity Pull this turn. All figures adjacent to Ozuul are affected by Crushing Vortex Special Attack. Roll 4 attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.
I think it's harder to understand and remember this way. It doesn't really save any words either--"and may not attack normally this turn" isn't needed on Gravity Pull either.

Scytale
May 7th, 2020, 06:59 PM
Here's my edits. There's one big problem, though. Ozuul has no height restrictions on Gravity Pull, so it could pull figures off of cliffs. Or ladders. Are those figures expected to take falling damage? It needs to spell it out either way.

GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, Ozuul may use Gravity Pull. One at a time, choose a non-adjacent small or medium figure within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul. The player that controls that figure must place it on any empty space adjacent to Ozuul, if possible. Continue choosing figures until there are no non-adjacent figures within 2 clear sight spaces or there are no empty spaces adjacent to Ozuul. Figures moved with Gravity Pull do not take any leaving engagement attacks. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must use Crushing Vortex Special Attack.

CRUSHING VORTEX SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 4.
All figures adjacent to Ozuul are affected by Crushing Vortex Special Attack. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.

Pumpkin_King
May 7th, 2020, 09:37 PM
I'd say yes it would.

NecroBlade
May 9th, 2020, 04:38 PM
Works for me with the addition that falling damage may apply.

EDIT: Added to the OP:

GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, Ozuul may use Gravity Pull. One at a time, choose a non-adjacent small or medium figure within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul. The player that controls that figure must place it on any empty space adjacent to Ozuul, if possible. Continue choosing figures until there are no non-adjacent figures within 2 clear sight spaces or there are no empty spaces adjacent to Ozuul. Figures moved with Gravity Pull do not take any leaving engagement attacks, but will take any falling damage that may apply. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must use Crushing Vortex Special Attack.

CRUSHING VORTEX SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 4.
All figures adjacent to Ozuul are affected by Crushing Vortex Special Attack. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.

Pumpkin_King
May 11th, 2020, 05:37 PM
Looks good to me!

Scytale
May 11th, 2020, 05:51 PM
As written, the Ozuul player could keep picking the same adjacent figure repeatedly (as long as there is another 2 spaces away). Not that doing so would be advantageous.

Astroking112
May 11th, 2020, 06:54 PM
As written, the Ozuul player could keep picking the same adjacent figure repeatedly (as long as there is another 2 spaces away). Not that doing so would be advantageous.

Shouldn't the non-adjacent clause for picking figures handle this case? Ozuul can't choose figures that are adjacent to him already.

Scytale
May 11th, 2020, 07:04 PM
As written, the Ozuul player could keep picking the same adjacent figure repeatedly (as long as there is another 2 spaces away). Not that doing so would be advantageous.

Shouldn't the non-adjacent clause for picking figures handle this case? Ozuul can't choose figures that are adjacent to him already.
Oh yeah, right.

capsocrates
May 13th, 2020, 05:22 PM
Sorry to butt in during editing, but what if Gravity Pull only moved a static number of figures? Like, three? Would that simplify the power?