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flameslayer93
May 7th, 2019, 07:24 PM
The AotV project includes many units, and it can be exciting to start thinking of them right away. This thread is for that purpose; brainstorm to your heartís content about the many different units. Please donít brainstorm units who are already in a pod, or who have been designed. Thanks!

flameslayer93
May 8th, 2019, 03:07 PM
This is the full list of figures we are using for the Arena of the Valkyrie Project. These figures will have designs that won’t require painting them to make sense; for example the figure for Acacyn would be an angel statue. Simple paint-jobs and cards to suit will be released later, as the designs get finalized. :)

On to the list!
>Arlinn Kord, Goldnight Outcast :!: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567019486931058847/image0.jpg?width=226&height=301)
>Arlinn Kord, Moon-Blessed :!: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567021389119225857/image0.jpg?width=226&height=301)
>Avacyn, on Bloodied Wings :!: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567020176843866252/image0.jpg?width=226&height=301)
>Blazing Firecats (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=2289540#post2289540) (squad of 3) :skull: :!: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567020053908815922/image0.jpg?width=400&height=300)
>Blighted Reavers (squad of 3) :!: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567023872801636365/image0.jpg?width=400&height=300)
>Chandra Nalaar, Pyromancer (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=55874) :skull: :!: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567019625385033729/image0.jpg?width=226&height=301)
>Crypolith (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=55800) x3 (Destructible Object) :skull: :!: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/577338124737183764/image0.jpg?width=401&height=281)
>Eldrazi Ruiner (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=55794) :skull: :!: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567019947713101854/image0.jpg?width=226&height=301)
>Eldrazi Scions (squad of 3) :!: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567021614206812160/image0.jpg?width=226&height=301)
>Flamewing Phoenixes (squad of 3) :!: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567020457837068410/image0.jpg?width=226&height=301)
>Ghoul Vanguard (squad of 4, combined with Restless Zombies) :!: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567020717841842226/image0.jpg?width=400&height=300)
>Gideon Jura, Combat Mage (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=55873) :skull: :!: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567019089982259239/image0.jpg?width=226&height=301)
>Glyph of Healing (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=56367) :skull: :!: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/648145008972660776/image2.jpg?width=458&height=610)
>Glyph of Knowledge (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=2280454#post2280454) :skull: :!: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/577338123965562890/image1.jpg?width=226&height=301)
>Glyph of Recall (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=2280455#post2280455) :skull: :!: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/577338125211402241/image2.jpg?width=226&height=301)
>Illusionary Projections (squad of 3) :!: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567021058926837772/image0.jpg?width=400&height=300)
>Jace, Investigator (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=55796) :skull: :!: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567019386330939398/image0.jpg?width=226&height=301)
>Jace Beleren, Mindmage :!: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567020906090725387/image0.jpg?width=226&height=301)
>Kiora, the Rising Tide (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=57233) :!: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567019169485422592/image0.jpg?width=226&height=301)
>Lantern Geists (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=55797) (squad of 2) :skull: :!: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567021470937645066/image0.jpg?width=400&height=300)
>Leyline Phantoms (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=55798) (squad of 3) :skull: :!: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567021153571569664/image0.jpg?width=226&height=301)
>Liliana Vess, Necromancer :!: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567021858952839184/image0.jpg?width=226&height=301)
>Merfolk Roilmage :!: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567021268763672606/image0.jpg?width=226&height=301)
>Nahiri, Fury in Stone (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=57226) :!: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567019268869324833/image0.jpg?width=226&height=301)
>Nissa Revane, Animist :!: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567019704217239578/image0.jpg?width=226&height=301)
>Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=55872) :skull: :!: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567020547544711179/image0.jpg?width=226&height=301)
>Restless Zombies (squad of 4, combined with Ghoul Vanguard) :!: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567020717841842226/image0.jpg?width=400&height=300)
>Rhox Veterans (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=57232) (squad of 3) :!: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567020339977257010/image0.jpg?width=400&height=300)
>Sorin of the Eternal Thirst (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=57225) :!: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567019875004842004/image0.jpg?width=226&height=301)

:skull: - Claimed by a Pod
:shield: - Completed
:!: - Link to an Image

Skyver
May 8th, 2019, 03:19 PM
The AotV project includes many units, and it can be exciting to start thinking of them right away. This thread is for that purpose; brainstorm to your heartís content about the many different units. Please donít brainstorm units who are already in a pod, or who have been designed. Thanks!Is there a list somewhere of what units have already been designed, or which ones have been assigned to pods?

flameslayer93
May 8th, 2019, 03:39 PM
The AotV project includes many units, and it can be exciting to start thinking of them right away. This thread is for that purpose; brainstorm to your heartís content about the many different units. Please donít brainstorm units who are already in a pod, or who have been designed. Thanks!Is there a list somewhere of what units have already been designed, or which ones have been assigned to pods?

Not yet, because we havenít started forming pods yet. The ďSpecial PodĒ led by the Project Leads thatís being worked on with the 2 Glyphs that need ĎScape-able powers and Crypoliths will be taking 4 of the units above, though we still appreciate any inputs regarding them. Currently we are thinking of using the Eldrazi Ruiner, Leyline Phantoms, Lantern Geists, and Jace Investigator as our 4 units. The first Pod will be able to choose any 4 of the remaining units. :D

Thanks for your interest Skyver!

Astroking112
May 8th, 2019, 05:25 PM
It might be useful to mark the units that are already in a pod, that way it's easy for everyone to see what has already been claimed and what hasn't.

In the interest of bringing the pre-launch discussion around the project to these forums, I've gone through the list and added some brief synopses of the conversations we had before. I'm sure that I have missed many things, so I'd encourage everyone who was able to talk on the Discord to bring up whatever else they find pertinent.

Arlinn Kord, Goldnight Outcast
Arlinn Kord, Moon-Blessed
Avacyn, on Bloodied Wings
Blazing Firecats (squad of 3)
Blighted Reavers (squad of 3)
Chandra Nalaar, Pyromancer
One idea that I've seen thrown out on the forums throughout the years before this project started was to have Chandra Nalaar place lava tiles or help the Obsidian Guards in some way. Given that the Arena sets contain no lava tiles (or suitable proxies, even), I don't think that this direction is possible.
On the other hand, Rise of the Valkyrie included many units like Syvarris and Deathwalker 9000 that were simple, offense-oriented, and relatively unsynergistic. Going with a straightforward offensive design here could be a welcome opportunity for some more simplicity like that.
Eldrazi Ruiner
This is one of the units that was chosen for the first pod. flameslayer93 has suggested that it is an alien originating from within a black hole, and another explanation for the purple color could be that it's an eldritch Lovecraftian horror. The purple color is slightly disappointing, but the sheer size of this miniature makes us want to use it.
One suggestion for a gameplay mechanic for the Eldrazi Ruiner that I made (assuming we go with a black hole-oriented approach) was a "Gravity Crush Special Attack," with 1 range and an attack equal to the height of the defending figure.
Eldrazi Scions (squad of 3)
Notably, these guys aren't in our pod, despite the fact that the Eldrazi Ruiner is. I'd encourage whoever's interested in these guys to come up with a design unconstrained by a need to tie them to the big Eldrazi.
Flamewing Phoenixes (squad of 3)
These guys would make great pheonixes, and they even aesthetically match an upcoming C3V design (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=2241554&postcount=99). There's no need to tie the two together mechanically, though, and pheonixes basically beg some kind of a revival mechanic.
This does have implications for the rest of the set that are important to note, though. It might be tempting for many of these Unique Squads to include some kind of way to bring back units, but classic HeroScape didn't have a huge number of units that can revive themselves. It makes sense for the pheonixes, but we don't want to overload the set with units that can revive when it was so uncommon before.
Gideon Jura, Combat Mage
Illusionary Projections (squad of 3)
These are the Jace Beleren, Mindmage lookalikes. They make a lot of sense as illusions tied to the Mindmage version of Jace, but NecroBlade had the idea of making him an Archmage and then allowing for these guys to work with any Archmage that you control (but being forced to choose one at the start of the game, like the Greenscales (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=29572) or MacDirks (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8423)). I believe that outside of potentially this set, that would only add Sonlen (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=11080) as a potential choice for the illusions.
Jace, Investigator
This is one of the units that we've chosen. The current plan is to give him a cyberpunk theme, something that classic HeroScape never truly delved into, but that has a lot of potential for fun powers.
Jace Beleren, Mindmage
Kiora, the Rising Tide
Lantern Geists (squad of 2)
This is another unit that was chosen for the first pod. Most of the discussion has been around making them an Undead squad (potentially following Jandar or another nonconventional general). flameslayer93 also had an idea for giving them a curse ability, where you can place the figure on an opposing figure's card when they're destroyed. Every time the other player takes a turn with that unit, there will be a small chance that it takes damage or is destroyed.
Leyline Phantoms (squad of 3)
There's lots of discussion around these guys, since they're one of the units that were chosen for the initial pod that we're leading. The general consensus is that they should be aliens rather than another illusion squad, to add some more sci-fi into the set and broaden the design possibilities for them.
Liliana Vess, Necromancer
Liliana is in a bit of an interesting spot. She works well as a Necromancer, but the set is unlikely to include any true undead squads to pair her with. A general purpose Necromancer is fine, but for it to focus on reviving undead, we'd preferably need some undead in the box for her to take advantage of.
One suggestion to address this was to make her mostly standalone in her power set, but give her the Lady class so that she can revive Skeletons of Annellintia (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=41695).
Merfolk Roilmage
Nahiri, Fury in Stone
She and Sorin have a very pale skin color, which could imply that they're vampires. She could also pass as a gladiator, however, and there are other ways to explain her pale skin if people want to avoid the vampire route. Examples thrown around on the Discord server included making her from a subterranean species or being covered in ashes, much like Kratos from the God of War games.
Nissa Revane, Animist
Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite
It was tossed around that Ob could be some kind of a related race to the Kyrie, perhaps altered from some experimentation like Valkrill did with Azazel the Kyrie Warrior. The tail is a little disconcerting, though.
Alternatively, Ob could be a demon. It's not clear what synergies this could entail in the future, though, since the only current demon synergy that we know of is Morgoloth (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=47017)'s Demon Leadership.
Restless Zombies (squad of 4, combined with Ghoul Vanguard)
The current idea behind these guys is that they're living shadows. All Your Pie had an excellent idea for them that involves bringing back destroyed members for one turn only.
Rhox Veterans (squad of 3)
There hasn't been too much discussion over the powers here, but NecroBlade had an excellent idea for them as porcelain rhinos. They could easily be animata.
Sorin of the Eternal Thirst
The pale skin of Sorin makes him an easy choice for becoming a vampire, although we discussed the potential of him being a loose interpretation of Vlad the Impaler to add some historical flavor to the set.

vvildeyedjoker
May 8th, 2019, 05:32 PM
I wanted to chime in briefly on this as I’m very interested in seeing this project happening. Something I did for a few of my customs from this set is turn a squad into common heroes. That way I only need one set to have multiples of the common. If I get the chance to later I will add my custom cards that I’ve made from AOTP figures.

flameslayer93
May 8th, 2019, 06:17 PM
I wanted to chime in briefly on this as I’m very interested in seeing this project happening. Something I did for a few of my customs from this set is turn a squad into common heroes. That way I only need one set to have multiples of the common. If I get the chance to later I will add my custom cards that I’ve made from AOTP figures.

We’ll be looking forward to them! Although we are going with a Uniques-Only schtick here, to maximize the number of ‘scapers both new and old we can reach, any ideas are welcomed here. :)

And of course, if you’d like to help out with testing and design, it would be very much appreciated!

vvildeyedjoker
May 8th, 2019, 06:39 PM
https://drive.google.com/open?id=11lozNeyWa2P3jryTczQ_N6ggJWQk6Ujp

Thats a link to my Drive folder with my customs in it.

Its been a while since ive been on the forums and cant remember how to get individual images to come up.

Pumpkin_King
May 8th, 2019, 08:16 PM
I’m posting here to remind myself to come back and look at this later.

Pumpkin_King
May 8th, 2019, 09:38 PM
Now that I'm not on mobile

I feel strongly about a few of these - the Leyline Phantoms I'm very excited for. There was also a draft of Chandra with her having two SAs like Q10. I think that's a very viable option.

NecroBlade
May 8th, 2019, 10:18 PM
I wanted to chime in briefly on this as Iím very interested in seeing this project happening. Something I did for a few of my customs from this set is turn a squad into common heroes. That way I only need one set to have multiples of the common.
Always glad to see someone else excited about the project! We won't be doing Commons (either Heroes or Squads) as we don't want anyone to feel the need to go beyond one set. That's part of Heroscape players will get to discover through other packs. :)


Its been a while since ive been on the forums and cant remember how to get individual images to come up.
You could upload them to the gallery here if you have the capability. Feel free to share any ideas you have in text form as well.

There was also a draft of Chandra with her having two SAs like Q10. I think that's a very viable option.
I've always liked that idea for her as well, for some reason. We'll see what happens once she gets into a Pod.


Here are a few quick design ideas for some of the units Astroking112 hasn't already filled in:

Arlinn Kord, Moon-Blessed - Sadly she didn't quite make the cut into our Pod, but I've got a really cool idea for her with a backstory as well, that hopefully the public will like, too. It includes Unleashed Fury!

Avacyn, on Bloodied Wings - Along with the Rhox, I had the idea for animated statues. Some kind of ability that gives them lots of extra defense (stone mode) in a tradeoff with something else. Preferably constructed in such a way that the two units could play well together in the same army. There are a few different drafts floating around for when the time comes.

Blazing Firecats (squad of 3) - I hadn't shared this one yet, but part of the design was borrowing First Strike from C3V's Varkaanan Swiftfangs. Reusing a cool power and paying homage to their MtG card as well!

Jace Beleren, Mindmage - As noted, a pairing with the Illusions would be neat here. And if the synergy casts a wider net with Archmages, he could have something like Illusion Supremacy (see Su-Bak-Na) to strengthen his bond.

Astroking112
May 8th, 2019, 10:20 PM
Now that I'm not on mobile

I feel strongly about a few of these - the Leyline Phantoms I'm very excited for. There was also a draft of Chandra with her having two SAs like Q10. I think that's a very viable option.

To be specific, that idea for Chandra was using a version of Mimring's Fire Line Special Attack and a normal Explosion Special Attack, providing two different multi-target options that introduce some existing mechanics to newer players for the set.

There was also another idea that used Mimring's Fire Line, but let her choose two lines leading away from her instead of one.

Pumpkin_King
May 9th, 2019, 12:03 AM
Definitely preferred the two shorter lines for Fire Line.

flameslayer93
May 9th, 2019, 10:08 AM
For the Shadow Zombies, how about using the 7 deadly sins for theme?

PK suggested Reflections of Hate, so I figure why not Reflections of War and Gluttony?

Also, I think I also suggested turning Chandra’s potential Explosion attack into a lobbed fireball, so that that little rule actually gets used again. :lol:

Astroking112
May 9th, 2019, 01:18 PM
If Chandra were to receive a Fire Line that can choose two shorter lines instead of one, I would prefer for that to be her only ability. One of the strengths of going with a dual Special Attack approach instead of something else is the simplicity, in my opinion, so if we're putting a twist on a power that already isn't too simple, I'd prefer that to be the highlight of the design.

On the other hand, I'm not a big fan of adding a Lob requirement to an explosion attack for her. It doesn't exactly hurt, but outside of the cardboard ruins, I can't imagine that there will be any instances where it would apply in the base set. The Lob rules are already rarely used for the Airborne Elite and Jarek Guy, so I don't see a strong argument for including it other than just having more figures use the Lob rules, which I'm not particularly convinced by.


Blazing Firecats (squad of 3) - I hadn't shared this one yet, but part of the design was borrowing First Strike from C3V's Varkaanan Swiftfangs. Reusing a cool power and paying homage to their MtG card as well!

Jace Beleren, Mindmage - As noted, a pairing with the Illusions would be neat here. And if the synergy casts a wider net with Archmages, he could have something like Illusion Supremacy (see Su-Bak-Na) to strengthen his bond.

I like First Strike as a power, and I'm generally a fan of doing more mechanically with Order Markers, so I wouldn't have any complaints about the Firecats using it depending on the draft. As you noted, it does pay homage to Haste on the original Arena of the Planeswalkers card.

I agree that if the illusions can work with a larger subset of figures, Jace should have some kind of power in the vein of Illusion Supremacy to encourage taking the two together. What power he gets would of course be reliant on how the illusions are designed.

flameslayer93
May 9th, 2019, 03:07 PM
Iím not opposed to a single or double fireline power, and certainly not opposed to a simple lob-less explosion power either. I can understand not going dual firelines + explosion, but single fireline + explosion is quite accomodating.

First Strike would be cool for the Firecats, although Iíd suggest at least 1 other power to help differentiate them from the Swiftfangs. Even plain Water Weakness would help here, helping to lower the cost.

Iím not sure Illusion Supremecy is a good enough sealer, but I canít think of anything better.

Returning to the zombies, Iím really liking AYPís idea to bring them back for one turn. It could function similar to the Revenant Tome, even!

flameslayer93
May 11th, 2019, 04:40 PM
:spam:

For the Crypoliths, if we went for a scifi theme for Ďem I was considering they could make a force field of some sort. Maybe all figures inside a 2 space radius of a Crypolith cannot be attacked by normal ranged attacks by figures outside of the force field and cannot attack figures with normal ranged attacks who are outside of the force field. Iím not sure if they should be climbable at that point, but pillars are already dangerous territory for ĎScape anyway.

Dad_Scaper
May 11th, 2019, 06:25 PM
:spam:

For the Crypoliths, if we went for a scifi theme for Ďem I was considering they could make a force field of some sort. Maybe all figures inside a 2 space radius of a Crypolith cannot be attacked by normal ranged attacks by figures outside of the force field and cannot attack figures with normal ranged attacks who are outside of the force field. Iím not sure if they should be climbable at that point, but pillars are already dangerous territory for ĎScape anyway.
I like the idea in scenario play but in competitive play you would have to balance this concept around Raelin, which might make it challenging.

flameslayer93
May 11th, 2019, 06:53 PM
:spam:

For the Crypoliths, if we went for a scifi theme for Ďem I was considering they could make a force field of some sort. Maybe all figures inside a 2 space radius of a Crypolith cannot be attacked by normal ranged attacks by figures outside of the force field and cannot attack figures with normal ranged attacks who are outside of the force field. Iím not sure if they should be climbable at that point, but pillars are already dangerous territory for ĎScape anyway.
I like the idea in scenario play but in competitive play you would have to balance this concept around Raelin, which might make it challenging.

Youíre not wrong, but climbable pillars (with Raelin on them) are worse than a Raelin you canít shoot at Iíd think. Competitive mapmakers, like anyone besides me :p, would have a new tool to work with as well. Perhaps in even more creative ways than we could ever think of! :)

Iím certainly not married to the idea, and others are just as welcome to create even better ideas.

~~flameslayer, whoís dipped his hands in a bunch of the brainstorming already

Dad_Scaper
May 11th, 2019, 09:36 PM
Oh, I'm not trying to shoot it down. Believe me, I understand the value of a safe space for brainstorming. I'm just thinking out loud, in response.

NecroBlade
May 11th, 2019, 11:12 PM
Interesting idea on the cryptoliths. Personally I haven't thought of much else than basically porting them straight over. I look forward to discussing them in their thread, soon. :)

Here, maybe the OP could add links by each unit to posts in this thread that contain ideas for said unit?

Captain Stupendous
May 12th, 2019, 12:20 AM
First I wanted to say I'm super excited to see this project move forward! I've always hoped that C3V would use at least the painted figures from the Arena sets, and this project is the next best thing; in some ways even more exciting as it lets us all see and maybe even contribute to the development of these figures!

I've had some ideas for the Jace figure and his illusions that I figured I'd share. These are just very preliminary thoughts, but I figured it couldn't hurt to throw them out there :)

I absolutely love the idea of giving the Illusions some form of Archmage synergy as Sonlen is one of my favorite units, but I've always found it difficult to get his points worth out of him. Based on that, I thought of giving the illusions the following abilities and stats:

1 Life
5 Move
6 Range
4 Attack
2 Defense

Projected Image
Either before or after taking a turn with an Archmage you control, you may exchange the space locations of that Archmage with an Illusion you control. If engaged, neither figure will take leaving engagement attacks.


Illusory Attack
When an Illusion inflicts at least one wound on a figure using a normal attack, their turn immediately ends.

I really have no idea how much these would cost, a ball park guess might be 60? Its hard to say just how powerful Illusory Attack would be in practice; they're a squad that will very consistently kill one squad figure or damage one hero, but can't do any damage beyond that. I really like the idea of Illusory Attack as it provides a thematic explanation for giving the Illusions a stronger attack stat (thematically this reflects only one of the Illusions representing the "real" Archmage). Without giving the Illusions stronger offensive capability, I wasn't sure that it would really be worth spending order markers to put them in useful positions for Archmages to use their teleporting ability, and I wanted to avoid a straightforward movement type bonding.

There's some really neat figures in these packs, and I look forward to following this project as it moves forward!

Pumpkin_King
May 12th, 2019, 01:14 AM
We'll absolutely take any suggestions - I have a feeling thye Illusions and Jace will be some of the most popular, and I'm excited to get them sorted into a pod.

Astroking112
May 12th, 2019, 03:29 AM
I'm not a fan of making the Cryptoliths climbable pillars. It works, and the Destructible Object angle does help them still feel distinct, but I think that we can do something with less overlap with an existing set (namely the castle).

A forcefield is interesting and very powerful. If we were essentially giving them Thorian Speed, I would think that it should be limited to adjacent spaces only, but that could still be very powerful to the point of dominating maps.

Other directions could be giving figures that begin their turn within 2 clear sight spaces +X move, subtracting Y from the range of figures within Z spaces, or anything else that gives melee a slight boost. We could also go the opposite direction and add a little bit of range, of course.

First I wanted to say I'm super excited to see this project move forward! I've always hoped that C3V would use at least the painted figures from the Arena sets, and this project is the next best thing; in some ways even more exciting as it lets us all see and maybe even contribute to the development of these figures!

I've had some ideas for the Jace figure and his illusions that I figured I'd share. These are just very preliminary thoughts, but I figured it couldn't hurt to throw them out there :)

Glad to have you aboard! It's always great to see some more thoughts for the various figures in the set.

I absolutely love the idea of giving the Illusions some form of Archmage synergy as Sonlen is one of my favorite units, but I've always found it difficult to get his points worth out of him. Based on that, I thought of giving the illusions the following abilities and stats:

1 Life
5 Move
6 Range
4 Attack
2 Defense

Projected Image
Either before or after taking a turn with an Archmage you control, you may exchange the space locations of that Archmage with an Illusion you control. If engaged, neither figure will take leaving engagement attacks.


Illusory Attack
When an Illusion inflicts at least one wound on a figure using a normal attack, their turn immediately ends.

Illusory Attack felt a bit weird initially to me (as did 4 attack), but it actually fits the idea of illusions really well. Getting one solid attack out of them before the illusion is shattered is a very unique idea.

Pricing them is especially difficult because of the movement boost given to Sonlen and (presumably) Jace. Initially it won't be very much, but the ability to swap your Archmage back to your starting zone after dealing some damage to heal back up sounds like it could be a slight problem, especially since you probably don't want more than one illusion in the fray at a time.

Perhaps changing Projected Image to trigger before or after taking a turn with the illusions rather than the Archmage could help.

Leo Ultra
May 12th, 2019, 04:15 AM
I gotta say, I do not care for the idea of the Cryptoliths being climbable, although I am tempted to support it by the possibility of a dangerous fall damage rule for someone who is on top of it when it is destroyed(For instance, damage being 1 unblockable die for Flying figures and 2 for non-flying, regardless of figure height, maybe an explosion theme... Hang on, how does... oh right. Grappling hook.). Otherwise, I like the idea of a force field giving a wall of Thorian, however I think it could also ONLY affect Special Attacks. Perhaps the Cryptoliths are even "Reality Normalizers" or "Antimagic Field Generators," and they prevent the use of Special Attacks and Powers (looking at you, Braxis) by figures 2 or fewer spaces away, while also preventing damage or destruction by the same to those within 2 spaces of it. (Is my favorite figure Kira Jax? Yes it is. Is this similar? ... maybe, so sue me)


Looking over at the firecats and phoenixes, I have suggestions for them both.

For the phoenixes. I have had an idea for a long time about a Unique version of the Obsidian Guards which sees them with a special version of The Drop:

Meteoric Elite

Utgar

Moltarn
Unique Squad (2)
Soldiers
Ferocious
Medium 5

LIFE --------1
MOVE -----4
RANGE ----1
ATTACK ---3
DEFENSE--4
Cost ----- 90

LAVA RESISTANT
This figure never has to stop its movement when entering Molten Lava and never rolls for lava field or molten lava damage.

METEORITIC IMPACT SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1+Special, Attack 3
The Meteoritic Elite do not start the game on the battlefield. At the beginning of each round, before placing order markers, you may roll the D20. If the result is a 13 or higher, place all of the Meteoritic Elite, one at a time, on the battlefield in empty spaces of your choice. You may not place them adjacent to any glyph or to each other. Upon entering the battlefield, you must use this special attack. The Meteoritic Impact Special Attack effects all adjacent figures, including your own.

MOLTEN METEOR BLAST SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1+Special, Attack 2
This special attack affects all figures adjacent to the attacking Meteoritic Elite figure.
If a Meteoritic Elite figure ended its normal movement in a molten lava space this turn, you may place that figure in any space within 4 clear sight spaces before using this special attack. This space may be up to 4 levels higher. If it was engaged before moving, it does not take any leaving engagement strikes.


Regrettably, the chance of finding Moltarn sculpts is... essentially zero. So it occurred to me that perhaps the phoenixes could work that way instead:



Flamesouls
Unique Squad (3)
Scouts
Relentless
Medium 4

LIFE --------1
MOVE -----7
RANGE ----1
ATTACK ---3
DEFENSE--2
Cost ----- 120

LAVA RESISTANT
This figure never has to stop its movement when entering Molten Lava and never rolls for lava field or molten lava damage.

BLAZEWING RESSURECTION SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1+Special, Attack 3
The Blazewing Phoenixes do not start the game on the battlefield. At the beginning of each round, before placing order markers, if one or more of the Blazewing Phoenixes are not on the field, having not yet been placed or being previously destroyed, you may roll the D20. If the result is a 13 or higher, place all of those* Blazewing Phoenixes, one at a time, on the battlefield in empty spaces of your choice. You may not place them adjacent to any glyph, or to each other. Immediately after placing all of the Blazewing Phoenixes on the battlefield, you must use this special attack. The Blazewing Ressurection Special Attack effects all adjacent figures, including your own.

FLYING
You guys know the gist.

*"One of those", maybe? All of them could be... Annoying.

flameslayer93
May 12th, 2019, 12:52 PM
Iím not against giving them Lava Resistance, but without Lava in the set it seems a bit of a waste here. :shrug:

As far as a special attack version of the drop goes, that could be extremely potent as an attack, especially if it can be done early on. Maybe not as devastating as the Airborne Elite, but it can be more. Bombing the enemy Startzone before they even have a chance to react is really strong. Like, really really strong. Placing one figure at a time would be less dangerous but also less appealing Iíd think.

A simpler idea I had was to just one of them ressurect adjacent to each other each turn via...

Rise from Ashes
At the beginning of their turn, you may place a previously destroyed Phoenix adjacent to another Phoenix you control.

Then just give them a statline based upon how much you want them to cost. :)

This version also allows ressurection synergy with other Phoenixes, without letting you bring them back after all 3 are dead.

Astroking112
May 12th, 2019, 01:27 PM
I gotta say, I do not care for the idea of the Cryptoliths being climbable, although I am tempted to support it by the possibility of a dangerous fall damage rule for someone who is on top of it when it is destroyed(For instance, damage being 1 unblockable die for Flying figures and 2 for non-flying, regardless of figure height, maybe an explosion theme... Hang on, how does... oh right. Grappling hook.). Otherwise, I like the idea of a force field giving a wall of Thorian, however I think it could also ONLY affect Special Attacks. Perhaps the Cryptoliths are even "Reality Normalizers" or "Antimagic Field Generators," and they prevent the use of Special Attacks and Powers (looking at you, Braxis) by figures 2 or fewer spaces away, while also preventing damage or destruction by the same to those within 2 spaces of it. (Is my favorite figure Kira Jax? Yes it is. Is this similar? ... maybe, so sue me)

Making it only affect Special Attacks (or affect them at all, honestly) could pose a rules issue. It's something that would probably never pass VC, since there are so many different effects and methods of targeting for them. Now, what I could see us doing is making it to where figures within 2 CSS are negated and can't use any of their abilities. We'd need to specify Unique Heroes to clean up potential interactions with squads that are only partially in the aura, of course.

That's kind of touching on an idea that I was hoping to see explored with one of the sculpts in the future, though. I'll bring it up again in more detail when the proper Pod comes.

Flamesouls
Unique Squad (3)
Scouts
Relentless
Medium 4

LIFE --------1
MOVE -----7
RANGE ----1
ATTACK ---3
DEFENSE--2
Cost ----- 120

LAVA RESISTANT
This figure never has to stop its movement when entering Molten Lava and never rolls for lava field or molten lava damage.

BLAZEWING RESSURECTION SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1+Special, Attack 3
The Blazewing Phoenixes do not start the game on the battlefield. At the beginning of each round, before placing order markers, if one or more of the Blazewing Phoenixes are not on the field, having not yet been placed or being previously destroyed, you may roll the D20. If the result is a 13 or higher, place all of those* Blazewing Phoenixes, one at a time, on the battlefield in empty spaces of your choice. You may not place them adjacent to any glyph, or to each other. Immediately after placing all of the Blazewing Phoenixes on the battlefield, you must use this special attack. The Blazewing Ressurection Special Attack effects all adjacent figures, including your own.

FLYING
You guys know the gist.

*"One of those", maybe? All of them could be... Annoying.

Lava Resistant doesn't bother me, but the complexity of the Special Attack does. I would suggest splitting it up into two powers, the Special Attack that targets all adjacent figures, and a revival power that requires you to use the Special Attack after they're summoned. That feels like it would be more digestible to me. Of course, then you're at four explicit powers, which isn't something that many designers are keen on doing, so something might need to give in that case.

On a minor thematic note, I do want us to use the theme of pheonixes rising from the ashes, since its such an iconic part of their myth. The Special Attack here could still work with that theme in my eyes, but it's worth noting.


Rise from Ashes
At the beginning of their turn, you may place a previously destroyed Phoenix adjacent to another Phoenix you control.

We don't know C3V's plans, but it is likely that they are making a Unique Pheonix hero from the announced list of miniatures that they'll be using. I'm not opposed to leaving room for synergy between the two, but adding a revival mechanism for it doesn't sound like a great idea. I'd propose flipping this synergy a bit:

Rise from the Ashes
Before taking a turn with a Pheonix Hero or Squad that you control, you may place one previously destroyed PHEONIX SQUAD NAME adjacent to any Pheonix that you control.

That lets the big pheonix revive our squad, but not the other way around. It's also pretty easy to add an Order Marker restriction without changing the design, in case it's necessary.

flameslayer93
May 12th, 2019, 01:35 PM
Whoops! My version was not intended to bring back the big Phoenix, just the little Phoenixes.

Astroking112
May 12th, 2019, 01:48 PM
Ah, I see! It looks like we're on the same page, then.

All Your Pie
May 12th, 2019, 03:51 PM
Regarding Cryptoliths, I still question the implementation of any sort of aura or buff that is not strongly or obviously communicated by the sculpt. Terrain and DO effects should be understated and easy to remember; I'd prefer to avoid situations where players will have to keep checking the rules to remember what kind of defensive buff they give at what range and against what attacks. This problem would be mitigated somewhat by making them DOs with their own card, but even then I would prefer a simpler, more obvious direction.

I understand the complaints about just re-using the climbing rules, though. I wouldn't mind using them if they were alongside some sort of negative power for units on or near the DO when it's destroyed. Something like C3G's Evergreen Tree (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=36992) DOs could work here, where the falling Cryptolith can hurt figures standing on or nearby it. This would put a risk/reward aspect to standing on the cryptolith and for clustering protective figures around it.

flameslayer93
May 12th, 2019, 03:55 PM
Regarding Cryptoliths, I still question the implementation of any sort of aura or buff that is not strongly or obviously communicated by the sculpt. Terrain and DO effects should be understated and easy to remember; I'd prefer to avoid situations where players will have to keep checking the rules to remember what kind of defensive buff they give at what range and against what attacks. This problem would be mitigated somewhat by making them DOs with their own card, but even then I would prefer a simpler, more obvious direction.

I understand the complaints about just re-using the climbing rules, though. I wouldn't mind using them if they were alongside some sort of negative power for units on or near the DO when it's destroyed. Something like C3G's Evergreen Tree (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=36992) DOs could work here, where the falling Cryptolith can hurt figures standing on or nearby it. This would put a risk/reward aspect to standing on the cryptolith and for clustering protective figures around it.

1-2 wounds for a perched Raelin is a huge joke though.

Captain Stupendous
May 12th, 2019, 04:10 PM
BLAZEWING RESSURECTION SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1+Special, Attack 3
The Blazewing Phoenixes do not start the game on the battlefield. At the beginning of each round, before placing order markers, if one or more of the Blazewing Phoenixes are not on the field, having not yet been placed or being previously destroyed, you may roll the D20. If the result is a 13 or higher, place all of those* Blazewing Phoenixes, one at a time, on the battlefield in empty spaces of your choice. You may not place them adjacent to any glyph, or to each other. Immediately after placing all of the Blazewing Phoenixes on the battlefield, you must use this special attack. The Blazewing Ressurection Special Attack effects all adjacent figures, including your own

I like this, it being unique and thematic. One concern that I had was with the timing of the special attack, since it happens at the beginning of each round, before placing order markers. I could be wrong, but I don't think there's any precedent for a special attack occurring outside of a units normal turn, which could pose some rules problems, especially in what is supposed to be an introductory Master Set.

Illusory Attack felt a bit weird initially to me (as did 4 attack), but it actually fits the idea of illusions really well. Getting one solid attack out of them before the illusion is shattered is a very unique idea.

Pricing them is especially difficult because of the movement boost given to Sonlen and (presumably) Jace. Initially it won't be very much, but the ability to swap your Archmage back to your starting zone after dealing some damage to heal back up sounds like it could be a slight problem, especially since you probably don't want more than one illusion in the fray at a time.

Perhaps changing Projected Image to trigger before or after taking a turn with the illusions rather than the Archmage could help.


Thanks Astroking! I really do like how the attack conveys the theme of a unit defending off multiple attacks that turn out to be just illusions, before being hit by the one "real" attack. Regarding the range and attack of 6 and 4, I chose those to mirror Sonlen's range and attack to further reinforce the idea that all but one of them are simply projections of the "real" Archmage. I also like how their attacks are more effective against enemies with high defense and low life which opens up some tactical considerations.

Regarding the possibility of making it so that the repositioning happens before or after their turn, I could definitely see that working. However, one thing that I like about letting the reposition happen before the Archmage's turn is that it would give Sonlen more opportunities to use his Dragon Healing on friendly allies that would otherwise be out of range at the start of his turn.

I'm still mulling over possible abilities for the Jace figure. I've considered allowing him to bring defeated Illusions back to life (which would be cool but also potentially problematic and overpowered), as well as a power that would let him destroy friendly Illusions to ignore wounds from normal attacks.

Pumpkin_King
May 12th, 2019, 05:59 PM
There was a version of the Illusions posted in discord that I loved. I think NB posted it. Once the tread is up Iíd like to see that draft there.

NecroBlade
May 12th, 2019, 08:14 PM
There was a version of the Illusions posted in discord that I loved. I think NB posted it. Once the tread is up Iíd like to see that draft there.

Yes, I hope to see whoever the Project Leads are for each Pod post whatever previous ideas we've had to get those units started.

The cryptoliths need to stay simple (it's a Master Set after all). I look forward to testing everything from a simple port to force fields and more.

Same for the Phoenixes. There are some interesting ideas, but we still want something easy to understand and not break something like out-of-turn attacking. Lava Resistance I don't have a problem with; no, there isn't any terrain in the set, but Grimnak was ready to boost Blade Gruts before they (publicly) existed.

Links for the second post:
Lantern Geists (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=55797)
Leyline Phantoms (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=55798)
Jace, Investigator (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=55796)

Astroking112
May 13th, 2019, 12:19 AM
Another idea for the Cryptoliths could be using them as teleportation beacons. When you end your movement adjacent to one, you can place that figure on any empty space adjacent to another Cryptolith. That's straightforward to remember, and it's easy to tie them together visually.

Regarding the possibility of making it so that the repositioning happens before or after their turn, I could definitely see that working. However, one thing that I like about letting the reposition happen before the Archmage's turn is that it would give Sonlen more opportunities to use his Dragon Healing on friendly allies that would otherwise be out of range at the start of his turn.

I'm still mulling over possible abilities for the Jace figure. I've considered allowing him to bring defeated Illusions back to life (which would be cool but also potentially problematic and overpowered), as well as a power that would let him destroy friendly Illusions to ignore wounds from normal attacks.

I'm still concerned about the movement boost that Sonlen would be getting. It feels like it would be very powerful, although perhaps it would be counterbalanced by the unreliability of Sonlen's rolls.

Jace being able to revive illusions is tempting, but it would likely be a deathknell to using them with Sonlen unless they are cheap enough to take both in the same army, and there is a good reason to do so. That's a very powerful synergy, that would warrant the figures almost always being taken together.

flameslayer93
May 13th, 2019, 11:18 AM
I've updated the list of units with links to their respective workshop threads (thanks for posting them here, NecroBlade !) as well as :!:'s containing the links to their images on discord. :mrgreen:

Thanks to LoveElemental for helping me finish the images up!

flameslayer93
May 13th, 2019, 12:12 PM
For Nahiri, I had suggested we make her into Boudicca or another female warrior from the past... While Boudicca was promptly rejected, someone did suggest turning the unit into an Amazon. The red sword could easily be justified as a magical artifact gifted to her by a Valkyrie, or forged from blood to give it the ornate red-tint during their time on Earth.


I'm cool with using the Crypoliths as teleporting beacons, that would allow mapmakers to create massive maps that can be traversed in the blink of an eye. I can also see it being useful for units who want to charge into the enemy lines quickly, before the opposition can form. Again, there usage will depend a lot on what mapmakers want.


For Liliana, I recall Pumpkin King suggesting re-using her AotP power "Snuff Out", which basically lets her murder an adjacent squad figure a la Grimnak. I tuned this power up even further an suggested that the power could also be used to bring back a destroyed undead squad figure, especially applicable if the shadow zombies end up being undead in addition to the Lantern Geists (who probably will be). Imo, this would help put her at a level of playability as a necromancer if the pod who is designing her wants a necromancer.


I think I suggested either here or somewhere else that Illusionist Jace might have Illusion Movement Bonding as a way to give direct synergy to the illusions. This gives us one example of direct, straightforward synergy. An alternative could be that he simply boosts the stats of nearby Illusions (maybe only those specific ones?), maybe because he is such a powerful illusionist?


For Gideon, someone suggest the light thing in his hand could be a lightwhip. Maybe he is a Maridien who is forced to be a gladiator in the Gladiatron/Blastatron arena?

vvildeyedjoker
May 13th, 2019, 01:59 PM
Looking over the figures the Merfolk Roilmage jumps out to me as an opportunity to give Kurrok some love with another unique elemental he can play around with while giving the Roilmage the chance to have a standalone kit as well.

Her sculpt screams out to me for a water tunnel ability. I also like the idea of giving her and ability similar to Mika where she starts the game with water tiles instead of shadow tiles to place at a short range.

Astroking112
May 13th, 2019, 02:03 PM
Looking over the figures the Merfolk Roilmage jumps out to me as an opportunity to give Kurrok some love with another unique elemental he can play around with while giving the Roilmage the chance to have a standalone kit as well.

Her sculpt screams out to me for a water tunnel ability. I also like the idea of giving her and ability similar to Mika where she starts the game with water tiles instead of shadow tiles to place at a short range.

She does seem like a Water Elemental. One problem is that Kurrok can revive any small or medium Elementals, not just Common ones, so we would need to keep in mind that she has a 50% chance of being revived whenever you take a turn with Kurrok.

Water Tunnel is thematic, and there's plenty of water in the cardboard terrain. I don't mind it.

Unfortunately, I don't think we could start her with placeable water tiles like Mika Connour, since there are none included in the box. People who only bought this set would have to fashion their own water tiles somehow, but our goal is that they theoretically only need to print out the cards to get into the game.

flameslayer93
May 13th, 2019, 02:06 PM
I love the idea of a Unique Water Elemental personally. I forgot I had that idea.

Here’s what I was thinking:
1 Life/4 Move/5 Range/3 Attack/3 Defense

Water Mastery: +1 Atk/Def while on Water.
Gift of Water Breathing 1: Friendly Small and Medium figures adjacent to Water Elemental do not have to stop their movement on water.
Water Tunnel

20 points

This prevents the Kurrok Ressurection problem (he only comes back with 1 life after all), while also giving Elemental Armies a synergetic 20-unit. Giving the MS a filler unit is also handy.

vvildeyedjoker
May 13th, 2019, 02:19 PM
Looking over the figures the Merfolk Roilmage jumps out to me as an opportunity to give Kurrok some love with another unique elemental he can play around with while giving the Roilmage the chance to have a standalone kit as well.

Her sculpt screams out to me for a water tunnel ability. I also like the idea of giving her and ability similar to Mika where she starts the game with water tiles instead of shadow tiles to place at a short range.

She does seem like a Water Elemental. One problem is that Kurrok can revive any small or medium Elementals, not just Common ones, so we would need to keep in mind that she has a 50% chance of being revived whenever you take a turn with Kurrok.

Water Tunnel is thematic, and there's plenty of water in the cardboard terrain. I don't mind it.

Unfortunately, I don't think we could start her with placeable water tiles like Mika Connour, since there are none included in the box. People who only bought this set would have to fashion their own water tiles somehow, but our goal is that they theoretically only need to print out the cards to get into the game.

That makes sense with the water tiles. It was just an idea that popped up while thinking about her kit.

As far as the revival, maybe make the base stats on the low side and get a buff from being in water. Like a ranged special attack only in water or just a simple stat boost to make her more situational tactically. That way it limits her positioning and power for Kurroks revival but opening a situation where the unit can shine. And as you said water is common on most maps so there will be situations in almost any game you can use her alone even at a lower stat point.

vvildeyedjoker
May 13th, 2019, 02:25 PM
I love the idea of a Unique Water Elemental personally. I forgot I had that idea.

Hereís what I was thinking:
1 Life/4 Move/5 Range/3 Attack/3 Defense

Water Mastery: +1 Atk/Def while on Water.
Gift of Water Breathing 1: Friendly Small and Medium figures adjacent to Water Elemental do not have to stop their movement on water.
Water Tunnel

20 points

This prevents the Kurrok Ressurection problem (he only comes back with 1 life after all), while also giving Elemental Armies a synergetic 20-unit. Giving the MS a filler unit is also handy.

I like that idea. Your water breathing ability also brought the thought of a water tunnel carry to mind.

Pumpkin_King
May 13th, 2019, 03:32 PM
Call her a water nymph or something to give her a little character.

Astroking112
May 13th, 2019, 03:48 PM
I'm not opposed to a cheap unique Water Elemental, but we would need to keep it distinct from the normal Water Elemental. If the direction is too similar, then the unique hero will likely replace the common one in most situations, unless you actually want to take multiple Water Elementals for some reason.

Perhaps removing the normal ranged attack and replacing it with a Special Attack that can only be used when she's on a water space would be good, but that also runs into the problem of providing a very cheap way to add a Special Attack to your army (although it's so heavily limited that I can't imagine it being a huge deal).

Pumpkin_King
May 13th, 2019, 09:13 PM
Honestly, she might be better as like a Fae or something.

NecroBlade
May 14th, 2019, 10:43 AM
I could maybe be convinced by a really good design for another Water Elemental, but it would have to differentiate itself from the current one, and as is the running theme for the set, outside synergy should be incidental, not core to any design. So I'd prefer a unique direction here.

flameslayer93
May 14th, 2019, 03:18 PM
I could maybe be convinced by a really good design for another Water Elemental, but it would have to differentiate itself from the current one, and as is the running theme for the set, outside synergy should be incidental, not core to any design. So I'd prefer a unique direction here.

Is Gift of Water Breathing unique enough? Iím plenty cool with dropping Water Tunnel to help keep them different.

Anyways, I recall suggesting a water elemental because it was another figure to try using. Fae might be better, of course.

NecroBlade
May 15th, 2019, 10:39 AM
I like the power (and had always planned on bringing it over from AotP), I'm just not convinced on the Water Elemental direction.

flameslayer93
May 15th, 2019, 07:09 PM
I was thinking, Kiora might make for a decent Healer option. Since classic ĎScape did have a few healers and it doesnít appear that the C3V made any, it makes sense to throw a healer in.

For an alien priestess we could go with...

Starlight Prayer
Before attacking, choose a figure within 4 clear sight spaces and roll the 20 sided die. On a 9 or higher, remove a wound from their Army Card. You may choose to heal Kiora. You may not heal a figure under an overhang.

Another way different route I thought about was making her a creature from future Marr (where the Hi-tech Marro are supposed to be from). She could have Telepathy and other Psychic powers, ďinheritedĒ from the old Marro race.

Pumpkin_King
May 16th, 2019, 02:53 PM
I like her as an alien priestess psychic type. Another sci fi angle.

Astroking112
May 16th, 2019, 03:59 PM
The problem with creating another healer is one that I think the original game ran into a little bit: there are only so many ways to make healing simple yet unique in HeroScape. We have a dedicated single-target healer in Kelda, an offensive healing hybrid in Sonlen, a relatively passive healer in Ana Karithon, and a paladin with a weak heal tacked on in Rhogar Dragonspine. Any new kind of healing design would need to be distinct from all of these.

I suppose that we could always explore the idea of a multi-target healing hero, but that sounds like it could either be slightly worrisome with armies like the Elven Wizards or completely worthless in most hero-light armies. A careful balance would need to be struck there, and the figure would be unlikely to find use outside of specific hero-heavy builds.

Of course, she could also always mimic Rhogar a bit and have some kind of defining trait with a tacked on heal, but that prospect doesn't really excite me too much.

Pumpkin_King
May 16th, 2019, 04:09 PM
Marker based healing?

Astroking112
May 16th, 2019, 04:12 PM
I believe that there was some resistance to Cyberpunk Jace using markers because the set doesn't really include any suitable ones. I don't have access to Shadows Over Innistrad right now, but we'd probably want to make sure that there is a suitable marker there that we'd be okay with using for the design first.

flameslayer93
May 16th, 2019, 05:38 PM
Thereís a marker in the SoI box, and a marker in the Base set. They are both small, but they work well enough.

Captain Stupendous
May 16th, 2019, 09:04 PM
I really like the idea of making Kiora an alien priestess. What if she gave a marker based buff? Something like:

Blessing of the Hidden Stars

After moving and before attacking, you may choose a unique hero within 6 clear sight spaces of Kiora and place a blessing token on their army card. If at the start of any turn the chosen hero is not within 6 clear sight spaces of Kiora, remove the blessing token from their card. Add 1 attack and 1 defense to any card with a blessing token on it.

(Kiora would only have one blessing marker). There's a ton of other possibilities regarding what the specific buff could be. I could also see a version that granted a healing over time at the start of every round or something.

NecroBlade
May 17th, 2019, 11:42 AM
I believe the only markers we have to work with are the double-sided Attack/Defense markers and the sunburst markers. I'd have to pull everything out again to see exactly how many there were of each.

flameslayer93
May 17th, 2019, 11:59 AM
There’s two round tracker markers, one from each of the bigger boxes. Technically we should save one of those for our own scenarios, but the other is free game.

lefton4ya
May 17th, 2019, 12:26 PM
Forgot about the counters:
https://hoardobits.com/magic/AotP-Shadows-chips.jpghttps://hoardobits.com/magic/AotP-Base-chips.jpg
Here are the all the glyphs and counters from Magic:Arena of the Planeswalkers (so far).
...
Permanent Glyphs:
P [AotP] Glyph of Power (Power +1) - All figures you control get +1 to their power.
T [AotP] Glyph of Toughness (Toughness +1) - All figures you control get +1 to their toughness.
M [AotP] Glyph of Movement (Move +2) - All figures you control get +2 to their move
H [Innistrad] Glyph of Healing - At the start of this figure's controller's turn, remove one damage marker from this figure.

Temporary Glyphs:
K [AotP] Glyph of Knowledge - Draw a spell card.
R [Innistrad] Recall - Take any spell from your graveyard and return it to your hand.

Counters:
[Innistrad] Power +1
[Innistrad] Toughness +1
[Innistrad] Charge Counter +1

lefton4ya
May 17th, 2019, 12:46 PM
As per above, what if instead of the the Power and Tough glyphs be duplicates of Attack and Defense glyphs they have the counters associated with them:
"At the end of the round if you are on the Power glyph, you may add a Power counter to the card of the figure on the glyph. Add one to the attack value for each Power counter on a figure's card. Once three Power counters have been placed, remove the Power glyph"

"At the end of the round if you are on the Toughness glyph, you may add a Toughness counter to the card of the figure on the glyph. Add one to the defense value for each Toughness counter on a figure's card. Once two Toughness counters have been placed, remove the Toughness glyph"

Otherwise we can use the counters for powers of figures, as Magic:AotP does. The Charging counter should probably be used for Necro-Alchemist or whoever in this way.

The little Sun-burst marker can also be used.

I would prefer the healing glyph form SOI retain the SOI healing power text:
At the start of this figure's controller's turn, remove one damage marker from this figure's card.

For the movement glyph, maybe we can also make it have Slither and/or Snow/Ice enhanced movement:
For or each figure you control, add 2 to the Move number, and count Heavy Snow and Slippery Ice as one space while moving. (Do not use this power when moving off of the Glyph).

NecroBlade
May 17th, 2019, 03:33 PM
All the square counters have crossed swords on one side, with, on the other, 5 shields and 3 sunburst. IMO it would be cool to use the 5 sword/shield together for one power somewhere, and the 3 sunburst for another.

Personally I don't have much interest in making the Move/Attack/Defense glyphs more complicated than they need to be (this is a Master Set) and am fine with them being copies of the official glyphs. Don't forget this may be the only set some people have. We're also not likely to reference any terrain that's not included in this set, outside of maybe Lava Resistance for the couple figures where it makes sense (not saying we won't do any others, just that we are going to have a good reason for doing so if we do).

Pumpkin_King
May 17th, 2019, 07:10 PM
The sun marker could be used as a healing mechanism, if it’s a priestess of the sun situation.

flameslayer93
May 17th, 2019, 07:17 PM
The sun marker could be used as a healing mechanism, if itís a priestess of the sun situation.

I like this. Maybe units with at least 1 Sun Marker heal by 1 wound each round.

flameslayer93
May 17th, 2019, 11:51 PM
Shrimp From Outer Space (Scions)
6 Move
1 Range
2 Attack
6 Defense

Scatter: from the Rats
Venomous Tendrils 7: After wounding with their normal attack, on a 7+ the target takes an extra wound from Poison Damage.

A weak, pesky squad. They could be *the* screening unit in the set, and would let the Lantern Geists and the Leyline Phantoms have something to actually counter.

Captain Stupendous
May 18th, 2019, 01:13 PM
Shrimp From Outer Space (Scions)
6 Move
1 Range
2 Attack
6 Defense

Scatter: from the Rats
Venomous Tendrils 7: After wounding with their normal attack, on a 7+ the target takes an extra wound from Poison Damage.

A weak, pesky squad. They could be *the* screening unit in the set, and would let the Lantern Geists and the Leyline Phantoms have something to actually counter.

I like this. One thing that's interesting is that the figures themselves for these units are actually quite large, which would be nicely reflected in the high defense stat. The only thing that seems a little off on first glance is that the design doesn't "feel" like a unique squad to me, but thats a relatively minor quibble that I could have my mind changed on.

Captain Stupendous
May 18th, 2019, 01:17 PM
The sun marker could be used as a healing mechanism, if itís a priestess of the sun situation.

I like this. Maybe units with at least 1 Sun Marker heal by 1 wound each round.

At this point, have we definitely limited ourselves to using only the markers that come in the set? Since people will need to print out the cards and order markers for themselves anyway, I don't necessarily see a huge problem with asking them to print out some special markers for units as well, although I can certainly see why we would want to avoid that if possible.

Captain Stupendous
May 18th, 2019, 01:27 PM
What do people think of these stats and abilities for Jace and his illusions?

Jace

4 Life
5 Move
6 Range
4 Attack
3 Defense

Soulfire Special Attack
Range 6, Attack 4.
If Jace inflicts at least one wound using his Soulfire Special Attack, he may attack one additional time.

Maintain the Illusion
All Illusions within 6 clear sight spaces of Jace may add 1(?) to their defense.


Arcane Illusions

1 Life
5 Move
6 Range
4 Attack
3(?) Defense

Projected Image
Before taking a turn with an Archmage you control, you may exchange the space locations of that Archmage with an Illusion you control. If engaged, neither figure will take leaving engagement attacks.

Illusory Attack
When an Illusion inflicts at least one wound on a figure using a normal attack, their turn immediately ends.


I think Illusory Attack would really help to keep the power level of the Illusions in check, and I like how Jace's Soulfire Attack is similar enough to the Illusions' attack to thematically feel like they are projections of him, but mechanically distinct enough to create interesting decisions regarding when you want to attack with Jace versus the Illusions. If at all possible, I really want to make the Illusion's movement ability work with Archmages to give Sonlen some synergy.

flameslayer93
May 18th, 2019, 03:44 PM
Shrimp From Outer Space (Scions)
6 Move
1 Range
2 Attack
6 Defense

Scatter: from the Rats
Venomous Tendrils 7: After wounding with their normal attack, on a 7+ the target takes an extra wound from Poison Damage.

A weak, pesky squad. They could be *the* screening unit in the set, and would let the Lantern Geists and the Leyline Phantoms have something to actually counter.

I like this. One thing that's interesting is that the figures themselves for these units are actually quite large, which would be nicely reflected in the high defense stat. The only thing that seems a little off on first glance is that the design doesn't "feel" like a unique squad to me, but thats a relatively minor quibble that I could have my mind changed on.

I know what ya mean, but I figured this could be a simple design direction. PK had something to do with removing OMís or something. That could also be cool.

At this point, have we definitely limited ourselves to using only the markers that come in the set? Since people will need to print out the cards and order markers for themselves anyway, I don't necessarily see a huge problem with asking them to print out some special markers for units as well, although I can certainly see why we would want to avoid that if possible.

We havenít commited to only using the markers, so creating extra (likely printable) markers can also work. Letís just be careful that any designs needing markers are done quite well. :)

I like your drafts for Jace and his illusion boys!

Astroking112
May 18th, 2019, 03:52 PM
I also want to reiterate that we are under no obligation to use the markers. Unless a design would be better by using them and has a good reason, I'm perfectly content with not using any markers at all.

NecroBlade
May 19th, 2019, 03:42 PM
I'd prefer to use the actual markers that come with the set and no more. Yes, we could add more to the PDF at the end, but we've got a handful of markers to design with already and only one thing that's truly necessary to add (Order Markers), so let's keep it simple.

Those Jace/Illusion ideas are similar to what we've been thinking. Illusionary Attack is an interesting drawback. One thing to note is Scatter on the SfOS isn't nearly as effective as it is on Rats without Disengage (not that I'm advocating for either at the moment).

flameslayer93
May 19th, 2019, 04:27 PM
Good point, I forgot about Disengage. Just dumping ideas for the minis at this point anyway.

All Your Pie
May 20th, 2019, 07:05 PM
I'm not entirely sure what theme we want for the 4-man zombie squad, but here are my ideas

Life 1
Move 4
Range 1
Attack 3
Defense 2

March of the Dead
Before rolling for initiative each round, if there are no order markers on this army card, you may move (squad name) up to 4 spaces each.

Tough

I like them as resilient, inexorable zombies that close in on their opponent with toughness and inevitability in contrast to the "horde" approach presented by the common zombies. I think Tough is the simplest defensive option for that, but I could see other possibilities.

Captain Stupendous
May 21st, 2019, 07:23 PM
I'm not entirely sure what theme we want for the 4-man zombie squad, but here are my ideas

Life 1
Move 4
Range 1
Attack 3
Defense 2

March of the Dead
Before rolling for initiative each round, if there are no order markers on this army card, you may move (squad name) up to 4 spaces each.

Tough

I like them as resilient, inexorable zombies that close in on their opponent with toughness and inevitability in contrast to the "horde" approach presented by the common zombies. I think Tough is the simplest defensive option for that, but I could see other possibilities.

I love this! Really captures the theme of a slowly advancing army of dread. March of the Dead is a really unique and thematic movement ability that should let them get into position easily, and most of the time I don't think you'll want order markers on these guys until the mid to late game anyway.

The design as a whole actually reminded me a bit of the Tarn Viking Warriors. They're both 4 man unique melee squads with four move and three attack, plus a movement power. That being said I think they'll play fairly differently, given the Tarn's burst style movement vs these guys' methodical advance.

Astroking112
May 21st, 2019, 07:35 PM
It's a very thematic design, but I'm slightly concerned that it's more evocative of an undead squad than a shadow one. March of the Dead and Tough both feel very zombie-ish to me, but it's peculiar to associate toughness with an intangible object. Renames could of course help address this, if we're open to that (March of Dread personally works for me and still makes me think of Night of the Living Dead, if that's what you were going for). Since you mentioned other defensive options, that's always open, too, but we are already looking at removing hitzones for the Leyline Phantoms, so our options might be a little limited.

betawolf36
May 22nd, 2019, 08:38 AM
Hello all!

I don't necessarily have time to playtest, but I thought I would drop in and help brainstorm!

I do really like that March of Dead power, butI think it would be really cool to pay homage to the original zombies of Heroscape with the 4-man zombie squad. I'm not talking about the Zombies of Morindan, no, I'm talking about the Zombies of the Meat Grinder! The old scenario from way back at the start of the game. These zombies are runners.
Here's what I came up with using the right side stats provided in the scenario.

NAME: Grindermeet Shadowghouls
GENERAL: Valkrill
PLANET: Valhalla

SPECIES: Undead
UNIT TYPE: Unique Squad
CLASS: Savage
PERSONALITY: Relentless
SIZE: Medium 4

LIFE: 1
MOVE: 8
RANGE: 1
ATTACK: 4
DEFENSE: 1
POINT VALUE: ???

SPECIAL POWERS:

Zombies Rise Again
(See Zombies of Morindan. Could be changed so it only works when a unique figure is killed to make it less powerful and to match how the scenario ran out of unique squads to act as zombies.)

Eternal Hatred
(See Marcu Esenwein. In the original scenario the zombies acted independent of player control, and a power like this would tie into that.)

Relentless Aggression
While engaged to a figure your opponent controls a Grindermeet Shadowghoul cannot leave engagement with that figure.

The Eternal Hatred I toyed around with also having a chance to Berserker Charge once on a good roll, as they can move twice in the scenario if they are unengaged, but they are already plenty fast. Eternal Hatred would also hsve to change to a turn based condition, otherwise the Zombie Hulk could get around it. Or they could just not be Savages. The move of 8 might also be too much, but it's one of the stats provided.

Just thought I'd toss that idea out there.

Regardless of what you guys go with, I'm sure you'll make some excellent units that I'd like to see hit my gaming table. Wish you luck!

lefton4ya
May 22nd, 2019, 09:17 AM
Interesting suggestion betawolf36 - nice to see you back here again. Forgot about The Meat Grinder (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=22) (Knights of the Dinner Table Scenario (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=731))

Best of both worlds:
Life: 1
Move: 4
Range: 1
Attack: 3
Defense: 2
SPECIES: Undead
UNIT TYPE: Unique Squad
CLASS: Savage
PERSONALITY: Relentless
SIZE: Medium 4

March of the Dead
Before rolling for initiative each round, if there are no order markers on this army card, you may move (squad name) up to 4 spaces each.

Zombies Rise Again (See Zombies of Morindan)

Tough (See Gorrilinators, although we can add to allow for Special Attack as everyone wishes they did)

I think this keeps theme of Zombies and opponent has fear of approach. For player you would probably want no makers or 2+ on them starting mid-game.

flameslayer93
May 23rd, 2019, 12:13 PM
That’s a fascinating idea for a custom betawolf36 !

Glad to have your interest too! :D

Astroking112
May 23rd, 2019, 01:23 PM
I'm surprisingly fond of referencing the Meat Grinder (considering that I've never played it :lol:), but zombifying others or being Undead Savages makes me feel like it's just a zombie squad, when the sculpts clearly aren't.

As a quick musing for a shadowy ability:
Hidden Shadows
If a SHADOWY THING is adjacent to only one figure, it rolls an extra defense die.

I'm not suggesting that we put this on the shadow zombies, but something along these lines or otherwise playing with the fact that they're shadows (beyond a simple "Shadow" race on the left box) would go a long way towards making them more believably tied to the sculpt in my eyes.

All Your Pie
May 23rd, 2019, 04:28 PM
Since heís been voted in to the next pod, Iíll throw my thoughts for Ob Nixilis here.

Atrixus
Valkrill

Life 5
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 4
Defense 4
Points: ???

Demon
Unique Hero
Darklord (maybe???)
Tormenting
Medium 5

Misfortune Aura
Whenever an opponentís figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Atrixus rolls defense dice, you may force them to re-roll all dice once.

Flying

I like having this guy be some kind of cheerleader, especially since we arenít going with a Kyrie Warrior for Avacyn.

Astroking112
May 23rd, 2019, 08:18 PM
Atrixus
Valkrill

Life 5
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 4
Defense 4
Points: ???

Demon
Unique Hero
Darklord (maybe???)
Tormenting
Medium 5

Misfortune Aura
Whenever an opponentís figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Atrixus rolls defense dice, you may force them to re-roll all dice once.

Flying

I like this. Some kind of "cheerleader" role makes sense, but this is a unique way of fulfilling that. Him replacing Taelord is less of a concern, too, because it requires the enemy to be within the aura rather than your attacker.

It does seem like it would be very potent for a bonding hero, though perhaps I'm overestimating the Wolves of Badru. A free second chance at Pounces sounds like something that they would appreciate very much, to the point that he would have to be priced around that and he might be a little disappointing alone in this set. There's also the potential for further Demon synergy that we're yet unaware of; neither of these things are unaddressable (the second in particular), but they're worth keeping in mind.

All Your Pie
May 23rd, 2019, 09:08 PM
Valid points on bonding. I personally think that the Wolves are pricey enough that they can absorb the cost of bonding decently well, but 5L 4A 4D might be pushing his stats a bit too much for that. That said, his closest competition is Morgoloth, who is a much better attacker with a comparably useful cheerleading ability, and I find it unlikely that we end up overshadowing him. I feel the same way about future demon synergy--some decently powerful Demon figures already exist, so as long as we don't outclass them we can trust reasonably well that the C3V isn't going to spring something deeply unbalancing on us.

Astroking112
May 23rd, 2019, 11:44 PM
Morgoloth is a better attacker for sure, but Flying and an ability to improve the success rate of Pounce do a lot to make up for that as well. So long as bonding doesn't increase his cost to the point that he feels unsatisfying without it, though, I'd be fine with it (some comparisons in my mind would be Finn and Thorgrim, who I enjoyed using as a kid long before I ever got knights).

I'm less concerned about releasing something along the power level of Morgoloth than I am about potential future interactions. For instance, if a C3V demon subtracts defense dice or something else along the lines of Gothlok, it might be a problem to design our own one that also forces enemies to reroll on defense, especially if they have other good synergies together. I don't think it's worth changing our plans over the fear of demon synergy (especially since it is all speculation), but it is worth keeping in mind that we might have to change the species later from a demon on if a problematic synergy is created.

flameslayer93
May 24th, 2019, 12:35 AM
I suspect Protokyrie would help alleviate concerns. :)

I like Misfortune Aura as a power.

Pumpkin_King
May 24th, 2019, 01:13 AM
My idea for the shrimps was something like “Thought Eater”, where they would get s buff or be able to come back if they destroy a unit with an Order Marker on its card.

Pumpkin_King
May 24th, 2019, 01:14 AM
I also like demon/darklord, and I think we can make that synergy work.

Astroking112
May 24th, 2019, 01:54 AM
The Scions need to thematically match the Eldrazi Ruiner design, since they're both purple. It's looking like that means they'll be based around gravity or black holes, which still gives some freedom to make a mechanically standalone design.

The current glyph pool we're working with does have some interesting interplay with potential OM powers, though. Something along these lines:
To the Void
After revealing Order Marker 1 on the SPACE SHRIMP and taking a turn with them, you may destroy one SPACE SHRIMP that you control to remove an Order Marker from an opponent's Army Card.

That's probably too powerful without some very poor stats to tie it down, but the general direction of trying to get the Glyph of Knowledge to figure out more about your opponent when you have the Scions (along with potentially reviving them to get more chances via Recall) could be fun to mess around with.

lefton4ya
May 24th, 2019, 02:53 PM
I might get slapped for this, but how about Bonding? It is such a "classic" but simple power that I think should be in a master set, as the only one we had was Nagrubs Lifebonding. One thing new is we have not seen straight up bonding in an Unique Squad, so I think giving Eldrazi Scions bonding with Eldrazi Ruiner would be great. We could make the species/personality/size/etc that we choose to bond on also apply to other already released figures, but should be fine with just one hero with one squad. We could do bonding for another squad, but just figured since we want to link these two units it might be the easiest opportunity. Obvoisly somehow the powers of each should also complement each other, such as GRAVITY CRUSH gets power for each adjacent figure but bonding allows squads can move adjacent.

Astroking112
May 24th, 2019, 03:11 PM
I'm not a fan of a bonding pair for this set. Since everything is unique, it feels a little off (most of the unique-to-unique bonding in classic was stuff like Movement Bonding or other synergies), but even more important than that is that I feel like each design should be able to stand on their own. Taking the Scions without the Ruiner would likely be impractical, and it would be very easy to make the combo so much better than the Ruiner alone that no one wants to take the biggest figure in the set without his buddies.

Outside of the four-man squad, this would also be the only way to get 4 attacks per turn in the set (one of which is currently shaping up to have a multiple-target Special Attack), and it could be tempting to add more options to "balance" this out for other players. The price could of course be prohibitively high, but then taking either unit on their own becomes less feasible, and there would be less room for making your own army around them.

Bonding is a very powerful and simple, but I'd much rather not see it here.

NecroBlade
May 24th, 2019, 03:13 PM
I'm not against Bonding in theory (though I'd have to be convinced to use it). As you say lefton4ya, it did show up on the Nagrubs. I would, however, only want them to bond with the Ruiner, partly because of thematic ties and partly because as a Unique Squad they'd have limited use for multiple bonding options anyway Another potential concern that Astroking112 touched on is power level; Bonding is such a strong power that it may not jive with whatever else is in the set.

On a related note, I still do like the idea of the other Jace summoning the Illusions like Iskra/Rechets (because it was a shame we never got more powers like that). So I'm not against units in this set needing to be taken with each other to play well (Nagrubs, again, weren't particularly useful without TKN).

lefton4ya
May 24th, 2019, 03:49 PM
I understand that yes this would be the only 4-attack possibility, but if the Space Shrimps were maybe 2 attack and maybe 2 or 3 defense (with Scale/Climb and a possible negligible 3rd power), they would not be over-powered at all as they would at-most get one turn of 4 attacks. The way I see it is imaging if Nagrubs were a unique squad and didn't have life bonding only normal bonding - they would only be worth 20 points. Just like any bonding squad you would only take them with the hero, but if you took the hero you wouldn't be required to take the squad - they are like an optional extra layer of icing.

I understand everyone's disdain for bonding as an overused/overpowered power, but that is why I think it is important to have them in a master set but in a way that is not overpowered yet thematic.

Astroking112
May 24th, 2019, 03:54 PM
I understand that yes this would be the only 4-attack possibility, but if the Space Shrimps were maybe 2 attack and maybe 2 or 3 defense (with Scale/Climb and a possible negligible 3rd power), they would not be over-powered at all as they would at-most get one turn of 4 attacks. The way I see it is imaging if Nagrubs were a unique squad and didn't have life bonding only normal bonding - they would only be worth 20 points. Just like any bonding squad you would only take them with the hero, but if you took the hero you wouldn't be required to take the squad - they are like an optional extra layer of icing.

That's part of my problem with bonding here. If they're so weak stats-wise, there's no reason to take them without the Ruiner and they'll probably be relatively cheap. If they're too cheap, there'll be no reason to take the Ruiner without them. It feels like designing them more as an extension of the Ruiner than as their own unit with their own potential.

I understand everyone's disdain for bonding as an overused/overpowered power, but that is why I think it is important to have them in a master set but in a way that is not overpowered yet thematic.

Swarm of the Marro was the only Master Set we saw to include bonding, but that was helped by them being Common. I don't think that we need bonding in this set.

All Your Pie
May 24th, 2019, 03:56 PM
I think for Unique-Unique bonding, I would need to see it with some kind of twist in order for it to work from a design perspective for me. Something like Life Bonding or Strategic Bonding (although perhaps with cost or downside instead of upside? But I like downside/cost mechanics too much so maybe don't listen to me) would feel more appropriate to me than standard bonding.

That said, I think the more obvious place for direct synergy between units would be between Jace and the Illusions, who I expect will almost certainly have some kind of movement/activation synergy. I suspect that the Illusions will not have much in the way of offensive power, though, so this might not be quite what you're looking for.

Pumpkin_King
May 24th, 2019, 07:39 PM
Yeah, the only sort of direct synergy I’d like to see is something between Jace/Archmages and the Illusions. We can do the scions without bonding.

flameslayer93
May 25th, 2019, 12:37 AM
Iím not against bonding here, but I would like it to be more interesting than standard bonding.

Astroking112
May 29th, 2019, 11:44 PM
There aren't many opportunities for historical units in this set, so here's a loose spin on Sorin:

Vlad III

Human
Unique Hero
Count
Cruel

4 Life
5 Move
1 Range
3 Attack
4 Defense
90-120 Points

Paralyzing Stare 13
After moving and before attacking, choose any small or medium figure adjacent to Vlad III. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, the defending figure cannot roll defense dice if attacked by Vlad III this turn.

Gore
If Vlad III inflicts one or more wounds on a Unique Hero with a normal attack, you must place 1 additional wound marker on the defending figure's Army Card.

This is of course taking inspiration from Vlad the Impaler, with an emphasis on cruelty and terror. If we want to make these ties more apparent, we could go with Vlad the Impaler, Vlad Dracula, or just Dracula as the name, although the latter two would be better suited to a more vampiric design.

If we decide that his skin is too pale to be a human, then it would be easy enough to switch him over to undead and swap out Paralyzing Stare or Gore for the typical vampire Flying/Life Drain combo. I'm personally more fond of a historical interpretation since we've seen so many official vampires already, though. Including VC, we're at 4-5 vampires, and it would be nice to not design another unit around Flying/Life Drain.

I'm also partial to Suskra's Gore for him. It symbolizes the torture and cruelty that he was known for without fiddling with an aura of fear or other complex mechanics (the sheer terror would be fitting, but we've already talked about an aura in a lot of other places so it'd be nice to keep away from that). Paralyzing Stare is also a nasty combo with it, and we can adjust the roll as needed depending on how the points work out.

flameslayer93
May 30th, 2019, 12:17 AM
This looks like this would be a cool direction for Sorin. I also like the reuse of both powers (even if one is still unreleased lol).

NecroBlade
May 30th, 2019, 08:18 PM
Interesting take on Vlad. I could honestly even see him lower than that point range, too.

flameslayer93
May 31st, 2019, 09:32 AM
As I’m driving around, I had the idea for an OM killing Sleep Spell for Nissa.

Maybe something like:

Go Back to Bed
Before/Instead of attacking, you may choose a figure within 6 clear sight spaces of Nissa and roll the 20 sided die. On a 16 or higher, remove all Order Markers from their Army Cards.

Astroking112
May 31st, 2019, 02:32 PM
This looks like this would be a cool direction for Sorin. I also like the reuse of both powers (even if one is still unreleased lol).

I'm hopeful that Suskra will be released before him, but Gore fits so well that it would be a pity to not use it. Luckily he's still a far way from release if we do settle on this.

Interesting take on Vlad. I could honestly even see him lower than that point range, too.

My initial estimate for him actually was in the 70-100 range, but that was with a slightly squishier 3 defense and 5 life, which has already been tossed around for a few other designs. 4 defense also seemed more suited to the armor the sculpt is wearing.

I could be overestimating his effectiveness, though. If Paralyzing Stare doesn't hit (or there are too many opposing squads), then he could have a tough time dealing significant damage. Whatever the case, I would like to see this kind of design lower than 120 points if we can justify it. Weaker stats would be necessary to avoid penalizing heroes too much, though.

Captain Stupendous
June 1st, 2019, 11:58 AM
As Iím driving around, I had the idea for an OM killing Sleep Spell for Nissa.

Maybe something like:

Go Back to Bed
Before/Instead of attacking, you may choose a figure within 6 clear sight spaces of Nissa and roll the 20 sided die. On a 16 or higher, remove all Order Markers from their Army Cards.

I like the idea of giving Nissa some sort of sleep spell, I'd just want to make sure to differentiate her enough from Dund to feel distinct. In this case, the ability to use the power after moving might be enough, but I think it would also depend on the rest of her kit.

lefton4ya
June 3rd, 2019, 02:43 PM
I brought up in Pod 1 main thread (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=55841), but what are thoughts on co-designed units such as Chandra Nalaar being able to summon Blazing Firecats, some type of bonding, or something else that requires more than one unit to be designed and tested in tandem? Obviously these units should be in the same POD so before we break up units in pods we should already be planning the tandem design.

Also what is the thoughts on having "Lava Resistant" on units such as Blazing Firecats or Chandra Nalaar? I know we want to make this set as self-contained as possible, but maybe if some powers such as an Special Attacks ended with "Figures with the Lava Resistant special power are not affected by [special power]" this helps to make the set contained slightly but does open up when you add VW terrain sets.

Astroking112
June 3rd, 2019, 03:10 PM
Go Back to Bed
Before/Instead of attacking, you may choose a figure within 6 clear sight spaces of Nissa and roll the 20 sided die. On a 16 or higher, remove all Order Markers from their Army Cards.

Like Captain Stupendous noted, we would need to distinguish her from DŁnd with the rest of her design if we wanted to go this route.

As a potential twist on "going back to sleep," we could do this:
Go Back to Bed
When an opponent reveals an Order Marker on a Unique Hero within X clear sight spaces of Nissa, you may immediately roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 16 or higher, remove that Order Marker from the opposing hero's Army Card. The controlling player does not get to take a turn with it this round.

That's a more defensive twist on DŁnd, which could feel more distinct. I'm not a big fan of the name for the power, but it would be easy enough to change. I also think that it's weird to put one guy to sleep and watch as an entire squad does as well, hence the Unique Hero restriction.

I brought up in Pod 1 main thread, but what are thoughts on co-designed units such as Chandra Nalaar being able to summon Blazing Firecats, some type of bonding, or something else that requires more than one unit to be designed and tested in tandem? Obviously these units should be in the same POD so before we break up units in pods we should already be planning the tandem design.

Also what is the thoughts on having "Lava Resistant" on units such as Blazing Firecats or Chandra Nalaar? I know we want to make this set as self-contained as possible, but maybe if some powers such as an Special Attacks ended with "Figures with the Lava Resistant special power are not affected by [special power]" this helps to make the set contained slightly but does open up when you add VW terrain sets.

I'm not inherently against co-designed units like Iskra and the Retchets of Bogdan, but lets keep in mind that they are (technically) two designs out of hundreds. I'd need to see a very compelling design to support adding more than one such design in AotV (and the Mindmage Jace/Illusions seem like a much more compelling pair for such synergy to me). A double-spaced squad already seems like it has a lot of unique potential, so I'd personally rather not focus on that for the Firecats. I'm not a part of Pod 1, though, so it's ultimately up to the volunteers and the leaders.

Lava Resistant doesn't bother me if it is thematic and fitting. I don't think that we even need to add some Special Attack that does less damage against figures with Lava Resistant unless we want to. We've seen plenty of units have advantages on terrain that isn't in their set.

flameslayer93
June 3rd, 2019, 03:17 PM
Coming back to “Go Back to Bed”, if Nissa only killed 1 OM (maybe on an easier d20 roll... or not), I think that would help to distinguish her from Dund and the Mindflayer (the Mindflayer’s OM power requiring a wound with it’s SA).

flameslayer93
June 3rd, 2019, 03:27 PM
Iím not against co-designed units here, but Iím not really for them either. Iíll leave the decision up to Pod 1.

Lava Resistance on Firecats looks right.
Lava Resistance on Pheonixes is probably fine too.
Lava Resistance on Chandra could be misplaced unless sheís not human.

Special Attacks that donít work on Lava Resistant characters donít sound like a good idea though. Fireline and Burning Breath from Mimring and Moltenclaw still work fine against Lava Resistant figures, and although Lava Resistance didnít exist yet for Mimring, itís literally on Moltenclawís card. :p

If we wanted to mention Lava Resistance, we would be better off using it as a weakness for a power like the C3V did for Racheimís breath attack.

Fakeraistlin
June 5th, 2019, 01:32 AM
Since heís been voted in to the next pod, Iíll throw my thoughts for Ob Nixilis here.

Atrixus
Valkrill

Life 5
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 4
Defense 4
Points: ???

Demon
Unique Hero
Darklord (maybe???)
Tormenting
Medium 5

Misfortune Aura
Whenever an opponentís figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Atrixus rolls defense dice, you may force them to re-roll all dice once.

Flying

I like having this guy be some kind of cheerleader, especially since we arenít going with a Kyrie Warrior for Avacyn.


I like this too, how about also bonding with an Undead or Demon of Vakrill type?

Astroking112
June 23rd, 2019, 01:08 AM
Here's an idea for a power that I'd been toying around with for Kiora, the Rising Tide:

Terraform
All terrain spaces adjacent to FISHY FOREIGNER are considered to be water spaces. Friendly figures do not have to stop their movement when entering water spaces adjacent to FISHY FOREIGNER.

The basic idea is to take Gift of Water Breathing and broaden its use a little bit more, giving it some decent stopping power against enemies while also adding some new Water Tunnel locations for some light Water Elemental synergy (she would also become a good counter to units with Water Weakness or Negative Element, which has been tossed around a bit already). The Microcorp Agents' water boosts might be a bit of a concern, though, especially if they can get height. A lack of bonding would at least help curb this quite a bit.

Pumpkin_King
June 23rd, 2019, 12:02 PM
I like it. We’d have to see if it would cause any weird interactions. GIE can be weird.

Captain Stupendous
June 23rd, 2019, 08:46 PM
Here's an idea for a power that I'd been toying around with for Kiora, the Rising Tide:

Terraform
All terrain spaces adjacent to FISHY FOREIGNER are considered to be water spaces. Friendly figures do not have to stop their movement when entering water spaces adjacent to FISHY FOREIGNER.

The basic idea is to take Gift of Water Breathing and broaden its use a little bit more, giving it some decent stopping power against enemies while also adding some new Water Tunnel locations for some light Water Elemental synergy (she would also become a good counter to units with Water Weakness or Negative Element, which has been tossed around a bit already). The Microcorp Agents' water boosts might be a bit of a concern, though, especially if they can get height. A lack of bonding would at least help curb this quite a bit.

I like this, but I wonder if it wouldn't fit the Merfolk Roilmage even better? I'm also a big fan of theming Kiora as some sort of alien priestess/healer... I'd thought of naming her Durnipia from the official lore and giving her some kind of healing power :)

Astroking112
June 24th, 2019, 01:12 AM
I like the theming more as an alien terraforming the battlefield than as a Water Elemental spreading its element, but either one could work as thematic justification. I also wouldn't be opposed to pairing some kind of terrain-based ability with a healing ability (perhaps even boosted when targeting figures on water spaces, if we wanted the two powers to play together more).

Nice memory on recalling Durnipia! I'd have no problems with making Kiora Durnipia (given the alien lizard arm that Valguard has, I actually think it's a really cool reference), although her colors are better suited to Aquilla than Einar. It looks like we never saw more of Durnipia outside of Valguard's bio, though, so there's plenty of room to flesh her out as we see fit.

Captain Stupendous
June 24th, 2019, 09:54 AM
I like the theming more as an alien terraforming the battlefield than as a Water Elemental spreading its element, but either one could work as thematic justification. I also wouldn't be opposed to pairing some kind of terrain-based ability with a healing ability (perhaps even boosted when targeting figures on water spaces, if we wanted the two powers to play together more).

Nice memory on recalling Durnipia! I'd have no problems with making Kiora Durnipia (given the alien lizard arm that Valguard has, I actually think it's a really cool reference), although her colors are better suited to Aquilla than Einar. It looks like we never saw more of Durnipia outside of Valguard's bio, though, so there's plenty of room to flesh her out as we see fit.

I think she's also referenced as "Einar's healer" in the bio for the 10th Regiment of Foot.

Pumpkin_King
June 24th, 2019, 10:39 AM
I think the bronze can work for Einar.

The Long eared bat
June 26th, 2019, 05:24 PM
An idea for Merfolk Roilmage.
Storm surge: When [MR] is on a water space and is attacking or defending, he is considered to have height advantage. If the figure's base that he is attacking or is being attacked by is more than 10 levels above [MR's] base he doesn't get storm surge.

flameslayer93
June 29th, 2019, 08:35 AM
Updated the unit catalogue with links to the Pod 1 threads! Sorry I haven't been able to handle a lot of stuff on my end lately since I've working quite a few extra hours and have been feeling rather lazy when I'm not at work. :lol:


An idea for Merfolk Roilmage.
Storm surge: When [MR] is on a water space and is attacking or defending, he is considered to have height advantage. If the figure's base that he is attacking or is being attacked by is more than 10 levels above [MR's] base he doesn't get storm surge. I'm not sure how well switching height advantages works in rules context however we can pull from the Microcorp Troopers (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=48158) from the C3V in denying enemies their height advantage.


Something like:


Storm Surge:
Figures attacking or defending against <Merfolk Roilmage> never have height advantage.
Pairing that with Water Mastery or a similar buffing power can help replicate switching Height Advantage while keeping in with canonic powers.


Kiora working as an alien priestess working under Einar (as Durnipa) sounds like a great idea. I like how it also opens the door for future scifi units following Einar later on, something that really hasn't been tapped into yet but has no reason to not be reality.


Giving her powers that have an association with water and healing will work well in the set because there is quite a bit of water on the cardboard flats. That's a fantastic direction for her.


As a potential twist on "going back to sleep," we could do this:
Quote:
Go Back to Bed
When an opponent reveals an Order Marker on a Unique Hero within X clear sight spaces of Nissa, you may immediately roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 16 or higher, remove that Order Marker from the opposing hero's Army Card. The controlling player does not get to take a turn with it this round.
That's a more defensive twist on DŁnd, which could feel more distinct. I'm not a big fan of the name for the power, but it would be easy enough to change. I also think that it's weird to put one guy to sleep and watch as an entire squad does as well, hence the Unique Hero restriction.


I believe the name was intended to be more tongue in cheek than anything, Astroking112 . ;)

Astroking112
June 29th, 2019, 12:50 PM
I believe the name was intended to be more tongue in cheek than anything, Astroking112 . ;)

Then you should've put it in all-caps. Capitalizing everything solves everything on the Internet. ;)

flameslayer93
June 29th, 2019, 01:06 PM
i believe the name was intended to be more tongue in cheek than anything, astroking112 . ;)

then you should've put it in all-caps. Capitalizing everything solves everything on the internet. ;)

like this right?

Astroking112
June 29th, 2019, 01:18 PM
i believe the name was intended to be more tongue in cheek than anything, astroking112 . ;)

then you should've put it in all-caps. Capitalizing everything solves everything on the internet. ;)

like this right?

You missed a C, so I have no option but to take you seriously. :shrug:

Maklar the Silver Prince
August 8th, 2019, 03:06 AM
This is looking like a super cool project! Just some thoughts:

The unpainted figures look pretty rough, even the transparent ones. Not a big fan of introducing a bunch of translucent figures to the game. But on a much more positive note, the sculpts look good otherwise, and I've seen some pictures on the internet with a very minimal paint job that makes things look pretty stinking good.

At first I was a bit sceptical of the "all unique" thing, mostly cuz I figured, hey, 2 of the official master sets had commons, and if you made the fire critters common heros you could expand the elementals and 3 common heros is plenty. But then I realized that the fire critters don't really work as elementals, and I figured hey unique squads are cool!

Any thoughts on giving the glyphs of knowledge and recall new heroscapey names? If you're gonna print out cards then I don't think it'd be too much to ask to print out a glyph picture to glue to the glyphs. That'd be cool and artsy I think.

Anyway, super cool project, looks like it's moving along well, I'd love to help out. :)

flameslayer93
August 8th, 2019, 03:22 AM
This is looking like a super cool project! Just some thoughts:

The unpainted figures look pretty rough, even the transparent ones. Not a big fan of introducing a bunch of translucent figures to the game. But on a much more positive note, the sculpts look good otherwise, and I've seen some pictures on the internet with a very minimal paint job that makes things look pretty stinking good.

At first I was a bit sceptical of the "all unique" thing, mostly cuz I figured, hey, 2 of the official master sets had commons, and if you made the fire critters common heros you could expand the elementals and 3 common heros is plenty. But then I realized that the fire critters don't really work as elementals, and I figured hey unique squads are cool!

Any thoughts on giving the glyphs of knowledge and recall new heroscapey names? If you're gonna print out cards then I don't think it'd be too much to ask to print out a glyph picture to glue to the glyphs. That'd be cool and artsy I think.

Anyway, super cool project, looks like it's moving along well, I'd love to help out. :)

By all means, please lend a hand! Toss ideas in here, and feel free to join up with Pod 1 (who never got completely filled).

Using the unpainted/translucent figures does open up an actual Master Set that anyone can pick up the 3 individual boxes and have an actual variety of units. Itís worth the trade if we can get squads made (and a few extra heroes!) Additionally, simple paint jobs will be made to really give them some life! For Ozuul (the big Eldrazi Ruiner figure), I had considered painting his hands and arms black, but in the style of bloodstains. For Avacyn, I was thinking grey wings and spear. Really give her that Angel feather look with a single color. But, all art stuff has to wait until we get some more designs down. :)

Uniques are fun! Look at RotV; after all these years itís still fun right out of the box with plenty of variety.

Regarding Glyphs, it looks like we might stick to whatís written on the glyphs for now, but it hasnít been super decided yet. It doesnít help that several members of that pod have been occupied with other aspects of life. Iíd expect a resurgence real soon! :D

Lumovanis
August 8th, 2019, 04:39 AM
Has anyone done anything with Nahiri yet?

flameslayer93
August 8th, 2019, 09:32 AM
Has anyone done anything with Nahiri yet?

Not yet. I recall suggesting she be a Native American or something, to help make her historical. The skin tone isnít 100% accurate, but the furs sheís wearing does help.

Astroking112
August 8th, 2019, 08:36 PM
Thanks for checking out the project, Maklar! Feedback and interest are always welcome! :)

This is looking like a super cool project! Just some thoughts:

The unpainted figures look pretty rough, even the transparent ones. Not a big fan of introducing a bunch of translucent figures to the game. But on a much more positive note, the sculpts look good otherwise, and I've seen some pictures on the internet with a very minimal paint job that makes things look pretty stinking good.

Yeah, some of the unpainted miniatures look less than ideal, but we want to balance that with getting enough value out of the boxes to make a true Master Set. Like you mentioned, for anyone with the talent and inclination to do so, minimal paint jobs can make them look a lot better.

At first I was a bit sceptical of the "all unique" thing, mostly cuz I figured, hey, 2 of the official master sets had commons, and if you made the fire critters common heros you could expand the elementals and 3 common heros is plenty. But then I realized that the fire critters don't really work as elementals, and I figured hey unique squads are cool!

Any thoughts on giving the glyphs of knowledge and recall new heroscapey names? If you're gonna print out cards then I don't think it'd be too much to ask to print out a glyph picture to glue to the glyphs. That'd be cool and artsy I think.


Glad to hear that you came around to the Unique Squad angle! It's tempting to make some of the stuff Common (especially because many of us already owned multiple sets), but I think that it's for the benefit of the project to keep everything unique in the vein of Rise of the Valkyrie.

I'm not a big fan of renaming the glyphs. If we did do that, we'd definitely need to print out a new sticker for each, but I personally am not bothered by the different names enough to think that it's necessary. They're already going to look different than the classic glyphs, so I'm fine with embracing that a little and saying that they're artifacts from within this strange new region that the Valkyries are investigating.

Anyway, super cool project, looks like it's moving along well, I'd love to help out. :)

If we have enough public support, we can definitely start a new pod to get more units in the pipeline. We stopped at Pods 0 and 1 for the time being because it didn't seem like there were enough public volunteers left (we're looking for 5 for each pod), but if there's enough interest then we could definitely start preparing another one.

By all means, please lend a hand! Toss ideas in here, and feel free to join up with Pod 1 (who never got completely filled).

I'm not sure that Pod 1 is looking to fill that spot at this point. They've recently gotten a consensus for many of their units, so they might not want to take on another voice at this stage. It's ultimately up to their leaders, of course, but there might be enough people to start another pod if we're interested in that route.

Has anyone done anything with Nahiri yet?

Not yet. I recall suggesting she be a Native American or something, to help make her historical. The skin tone isnít 100% accurate, but the furs sheís wearing does help.

I know that we're looking for historically themed units, but this feels like a bit of a stretch to me personally, given the extremely pale skin, armor, and weaponry. Whatever the route for her ends up being, I don't want to see it forced because we feel we need another design of a certain kind.

flameslayer93
August 8th, 2019, 10:40 PM
Thanks for checking out the project, Maklar! Feedback and interest are always welcome! :)

This is looking like a super cool project! Just some thoughts:

The unpainted figures look pretty rough, even the transparent ones. Not a big fan of introducing a bunch of translucent figures to the game. But on a much more positive note, the sculpts look good otherwise, and I've seen some pictures on the internet with a very minimal paint job that makes things look pretty stinking good.

Yeah, some of the unpainted miniatures look less than ideal, but we want to balance that with getting enough value out of the boxes to make a true Master Set. Like you mentioned, for anyone with the talent and inclination to do so, minimal paint jobs can make them look a lot better.

At first I was a bit sceptical of the "all unique" thing, mostly cuz I figured, hey, 2 of the official master sets had commons, and if you made the fire critters common heros you could expand the elementals and 3 common heros is plenty. But then I realized that the fire critters don't really work as elementals, and I figured hey unique squads are cool!

Any thoughts on giving the glyphs of knowledge and recall new heroscapey names? If you're gonna print out cards then I don't think it'd be too much to ask to print out a glyph picture to glue to the glyphs. That'd be cool and artsy I think.


Glad to hear that you came around to the Unique Squad angle! It's tempting to make some of the stuff Common (especially because many of us already owned multiple sets), but I think that it's for the benefit of the project to keep everything unique in the vein of Rise of the Valkyrie.

I'm not a big fan of renaming the glyphs. If we did do that, we'd definitely need to print out a new sticker for each, but I personally am not bothered by the different names enough to think that it's necessary. They're already going to look different than the classic glyphs, so I'm fine with embracing that a little and saying that they're artifacts from within this strange new region that the Valkyries are investigating.

Anyway, super cool project, looks like it's moving along well, I'd love to help out. :)

If we have enough public support, we can definitely start a new pod to get more units in the pipeline. We stopped at Pods 0 and 1 for the time being because it didn't seem like there were enough public volunteers left (we're looking for 5 for each pod), but if there's enough interest then we could definitely start preparing another one.

By all means, please lend a hand! Toss ideas in here, and feel free to join up with Pod 1 (who never got completely filled).

I'm not sure that Pod 1 is looking to fill that spot at this point. They've recently gotten a consensus for many of their units, so they might not want to take on another voice at this stage. It's ultimately up to their leaders, of course, but there might be enough people to start another pod if we're interested in that route.

Has anyone done anything with Nahiri yet?

Not yet. I recall suggesting she be a Native American or something, to help make her historical. The skin tone isnít 100% accurate, but the furs sheís wearing does help.

I know that we're looking for historically themed units, but this feels like a bit of a stretch to me personally, given the extremely pale skin, armor, and weaponry. Whatever the route for her ends up being, I don't want to see it forced because we feel we need another design of a certain kind.

Aaaaaand, I clearly misremembered which figure was which. I was thinking of Arlinn. Oops!

Astroking112
August 8th, 2019, 11:29 PM
No worries! Arlinn is definitely much more reasonable as a Native American, although there are still plenty of other directions that she could be taken. :)

Lumovanis
August 10th, 2019, 07:15 AM
Quick question about these "pods" I see here, are these required/assigned? I remember piping in on a random pod's creation awhile ago.

flameslayer93
August 10th, 2019, 10:11 AM
Quick question about these "pods" I see here, are these required/assigned? I remember piping in on a random pod's creation awhile ago.

People can volunteer to join a pod at its inception. But theyíre needed to help focus each groupís attentions on their design (and not on 29 designs).

Captain Stupendous
August 10th, 2019, 10:57 PM
Quick question about these "pods" I see here, are these required/assigned? I remember piping in on a random pod's creation awhile ago.

Someone more closely associated with the project can please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think its fine for non-pod members to hop into a unit thread to give feedback or even design ideas, as long as you are respectful of the pod members' authority over the design and let them remain the guiding force of the design. I know that I've contributed some ideas to both the Leyline Phantoms and the Blazing Firecats that it looks like the pod members will be using in some form, even though I'm not a member of either pod. I'm still following along though because this project is awesome and waiting to jump on the pod with Jace and his illusions :)

Lumovanis
August 11th, 2019, 04:35 AM
So does one need to be in a pod specifically to sort of "claim" a piece for design?

Maklar the Silver Prince
August 11th, 2019, 05:56 PM
So does one need to be in a pod specifically to sort of "claim" a piece for design?

I would think it might not be a stretch to say there's sufficient interest for another pod to be started up and another round of unit design getting underway. I know I would be interested in contributing.

Speaking of contributing: do y'all have a system or a thread for playtesting? Looks like many designs are starting to reach that point.

NecroBlade
August 11th, 2019, 10:41 PM
Someone more closely associated with the project can please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think its fine for non-pod members to hop into a unit thread to give feedback or even design ideas, as long as you are respectful of the pod members' authority over the design and let them remain the guiding force of the design.
Nailed it. I think Pod 1 still has an open slot, so it would be great to see it filled since it doesn't look like a Pod 2 will be started before 0 or 1 is done, but it's up to All Your Pie and Scytale.

Speaking of contributing: do y'all have a system or a thread for playtesting? Looks like many designs are starting to reach that point.
Not yet, but as soon as designs start reaching the Playtest phase, we'll have a thread that will keep everyone up-to-date on what's available and what the progress is.

Fakeraistlin
August 12th, 2019, 12:58 PM
Hi all , is there a custom play testing guide one can peruse before testing custom units and reporting results
or is it simply drafting the unit with rotv and other units to be tested and informally make comments/observations?

flameslayer93
August 12th, 2019, 04:27 PM
Hi all , is there a custom play testing guide one can peruse before testing custom units and reporting results
or is it simply drafting the unit with rotv and other units to be tested and informally make comments/observations?

For now, you can use the C3V Public Playtesting Form to help out. You can also give less formal commentary if for whatever reason you didnt write it down. :)

NecroBlade
August 18th, 2019, 11:03 AM
So I was thinking about the Space Shrimp and potential synergy with Ozuul (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=55794). I like the way Chandra/Firecats are going with synergy that isn't explicit and think we could easily do something similar with those two.


HARDENED IN THE VOID

When rolling defense dice against a normal attack, a Space Shrimp always adds one automatic shield to whatever is rolled. When rolling defense dice against a special attack, a Space Shrimp always adds two automatic shields to whatever is rolled.


Pair that with like 2 Defense. It's Tough + Iron Tough, but more importantly it lets you pull them in with Ozuul to boost his Gravity Crush Special Attack by +1 each, yet still have a reasonable chance to survive it themselves.

Pumpkin_King
August 19th, 2019, 04:29 PM
I like that, NB. I also liked the idea of them being some kind of knowledge-eaters and get an attack bonus on cards with OMs. Dunno if I brought that up here.

NecroBlade
August 19th, 2019, 07:26 PM
It may have come up in the Discord way back. Here's another power I came up with, not necessarily for these guys (though if it was the theme in my head is maybe their appendages were limited to either running or grappling/attacking at one time).


Move 7/Attack 1


[POWER NAME]
Before moving [unit], you may subtract up to 3 from [unit's] Move this turn to add that number to [unit's] Attack.

Astroking112
August 19th, 2019, 10:11 PM
NecroBlade I'm a fan of giving the Space Shrimp some variation of Iron Tough for the indirect Ozuul synergy. I like it slightly more as a renamed Iron Tough that doesn't protect against normal attacks, though, likely with 3-4 base defense to account for their weakness.

I'm not particularly sold on subtracting 3 from move to add 3 to attack, though. In most cases, it wouldn't actually be a decision point, since players would just either choose the attack bonus if they can or the movement if they have to.

Pumpkin_King I thought that I remembered something along the lines of discussing the Shrimp snatching Order Markers off of defending figures, but nothing concrete comes to mind for me. If we want them to have light synergy with Ozuul, then I don't think that Order Marker removal is what we're looking for (the main benefit to him would be sticking enemies in place, when he already doesn't really want to be tied down in engagement). Some kind of way to keep up with him and an increased defense against Special Attacks would work better for him.

Pumpkin_King
August 19th, 2019, 11:09 PM
Honestly, it would be kind of funny if they were some kind of void parasites - being able to be yanked along with his gravity fluxes without harm, having adapted to whatever form of life Ozuul is.

Maklar the Silver Prince
August 22nd, 2019, 02:18 PM
An idea I've been tossing around for the porcelain rhino squad was a shattering power, where they do damage to nearby figures after they are destroyed. I thought a neat combination with that would be a magical cheerleading power: you can use the rhinos as hubs to pump up your troops but you run the risk of them exploding on you; alternatively you can run them into battle but you lose out on a dice buff.

lefton4ya
November 13th, 2019, 05:56 PM
Any thoughts on whether we should include a "standard rule" for the Magic:AotP sand terrain in our AotV master set? I was thinking we could make it like heavy snow/slippery ice where each map can designate whether they are using the rule or not, or if a map is set to use the rule it can still be optional. Just would be cool to have a new terrain type in tournaments.
So I think there are a lot of people, including involved in VC & C3G, map makers, tournament directors, and everyday scapers who would love anew terrain type for Heroscape. Well guess what, Magic:AotP gave us a new terrain type (besides Cryptoliths): Quick-Sand

https://www.heroscapers.com/downloads/highways%20over%20innistrad_7FJ.jpg

Note this is different paint-job than Heroscape sand, but is 100% compatible. There are only a few pieces in each set:

Arena of the Planeswalker Master Set: 2 1-hex sand tiles, 2 3-hex sand tiles (8 hexes)
Shadows over Innistrad Master Set: 6 1-hex sand tiles, 3 2-hex sand tiles (cryptolith bases) (12 hexes total, 9 hexes with cryptoliths)
Wal-Mart Bonus edition: AotP + Bonus: 1 7-hex sand tile, 2 3-hex sand tiles, 2 2-hex sand tiles 2 1-hex sand tiles (bonus 19 hexes + 8 in original = 27 hexes total)
Also note that the sets come with cardboard mats and you may optionally make the sand on the mats be this "quick-sand" or not.

I would love to have agreed upon rules for this new terrain. This would be similar to "slippery ice" or "heavy snow" in that each map that uses the terrain can make the rules optional, but it should give map-makers a new terrain to design around. Eventually I'd like to see a C3V "master set" that uses AotP figures but also maps/scenarios with terrain from the sets using these rules....
Suggestions here:
When you move onto a quick-sand space, your figure is trapped. The trapped figure cannot move from this space. The figure can move off the quick-sand only if a friendly figure occupies an adjacent space. @Hasbro - Same as Glyph of Proftaka (Pit Trap)
Each time a figure without the Slither power moves onto a quicksand space and is not adjacent to a friendly figure, roll a 20-sided die. Add the figure's height to the roll. On a roll of 10 or lower, the figure is trapped and must end its movement this turn. The figure may move off a quick-sand space the following turn. You may count quick-sand as sand or water for special powers of any figure. lefton4ya, addended by Astroking112
When a non-flying Small or Medium figure moves onto a quick-sand space from a non-quick-sand space, roll the D20. If you roll a 1, that figure is destroyed. If you roll a 2-5, that figure receives one wound. If you roll a 6 or higher, nothing happens. killercactus from Fire Swamp (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=2266)
Figures without the Slither power starting their move on quick-sand spaces subtract 3 from their move. Figures on quick-sand spaces cannot target non-adjacent figures for attacks. Necroblade
When you move to quick-sand space from a non quick-sand space, quick-sand must be counted as two spaces when moving. Nerfed version of Heavy Snow that some people house-rule.

Astroking112
November 13th, 2019, 07:42 PM
I am against any special rules for the few 3D tiles that we have to work with. This is a Master Set meant to be a suitable introduction to the game, not a way of adding new terrain to the tournament scene.

Using just our normal set, any special rules such as quicksand would quickly become oppressive if they include the flat cardboard, and anything using the 3D terrain essentially means that we would have no normal height available for our scenarios. We could just say that these special rules are "off" whenever we need them to be, but if that's going to be 80% of our content (and require some text such as "Ignore these rules" at the start of most of our scenarios), then I'm more inclined to let fans come up with their own special rules for this terrain outside of the set if they want to.

The only terrain pieces that I could see us baking rules into are the "weirded out" spaces on the other side of the SoI sets (rather than being left for scenarios as we intended), but those are all in fixed layouts and it then limits what we can do in our scenarios even further. I'm not sure that map-makers will really want to use our scenario rules whenever they use those tiles, to be honest, so I'm not overly enthused about that idea, either. :shrug:

NecroBlade
November 17th, 2019, 02:17 PM
Personally I'd love to create a terrain rule for the sand tiles, but that's a fair point about it being the only hexes with height in this set. Either way I think I'll house rule them. :)

And I'd rather do the sand hexes than the weird tiles. As you say their fixed layouts really limit our options. So probably nothing new here.

Astroking112
November 17th, 2019, 02:33 PM
I'll totally house rule the sand tiles for when I need quicksand. I just don't think that AotV is the place for building "official" rules into them, given how limited our terrain is. ;)

Captain Stupendous
December 16th, 2019, 08:57 PM
Had a kind of crazy idea for Kiora that I figured I'd throw out here. Might be too weird for the purpose of this set, but it can't hurt to see what people think.

Durnipia (Figure used: Kiora; based on the canonical character Durnipia, "Einar's Healer" as referenced in the bios for Valguard (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8588) and the 10th Regiment of Foot (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=19518).)

5 Life
5 Move
1 Range
3 Attack
3 Defense

FIELDS OF THE FALLEN
Whenever a small or medium unique hero within 4 clear sight spaces of Durnipia is destroyed, you may place that figure on Durnipiaís army card.

THE GIFT OF THE FALLEN
Instead of attacking with Durnipia, you may choose an adjacent unique hero and roll the d20. If you roll a 6 or higher, you may remove 1 wound marker from the chosen heroís army card and move a previously destroyed figure from Durnipiaís army card to the army card of the chosen hero. For the rest of the game, the chosen hero may use the destroyed figureís powers in addition to its own.


I think this unit would be a ton of fun to play, and allow for some really interesting armies based around unique heroes. I could definitely see how it might break the game a little too fundamentally for the purpose of this master set though. For what its worth, the wording for the power is actually semi-official, as it's based off the scenario rules for the Marvel Masterset scenario "A Very Mad Genius" on the last page of the Marvel rulebook.

I could also imagine a more restrained version of this power which would only allow figures to use special attacks on the destroyed figure's card, although I don't think this is quite as thematically true to what we know about Durnipia, since Valguard doesn't have a special attack.

Of course theres some potential timing issues with Finn and Thorgrim and the question of whether they go on Durnipia's card or somewhere else when they die, but I do think that's something that could be clarified with a R&C if we thought the power was worth it.

Anyway, feel free to let me know what you all think :)

Pumpkin_King
December 21st, 2019, 02:55 PM
I like it. I think a goal in our limited discussions about this character was a healer with unique mechanics for healing, and that certainly fits that bill.

Captain Stupendous
December 24th, 2019, 12:55 PM
I like it. I think a goal in our limited discussions about this character was a healer with unique mechanics for healing, and that certainly fits that bill.

Thanks! After thinking about the ability a little more, I'm pretty sure that the chosen figure would need to be limited to a small or medium hero as well. The thought of Nilfheim with Vanish 9, Phantom Walk, and Dishonorable Attack is just too terrifying, even if it is a little difficult to set up. A revised version of the abilities would look like:

Durnipia (Figure used: Kiora; based on the canonical character Durnipia, "Einar's Healer" as referenced in the bios for Valguard and the 10th Regiment of Foot.)

5 Life
5 Move
1 Range
3 Attack
3 Defense

FIELDS OF THE FALLEN
Whenever a small or medium unique hero within 4 clear sight spaces of Durnipia is destroyed [during an opponent's turn], you may place that figure on Durnipiaís army card.

THE GIFT OF THE FALLEN
Instead of attacking with Durnipia, you may choose an adjacent small or medium unique hero and roll the d20. If you roll a 6 or higher, you may remove 1 wound marker from the chosen heroís army card and move a previously destroyed figure from Durnipiaís army card to the army card of the chosen hero. For the rest of the game, the chosen hero may use the destroyed figureís powers in addition to its own.

NecroBlade
January 5th, 2020, 05:31 PM
Certainly an interesting power set. Might be a nightmare to make sure there aren't broken combos in there somewhere, lol.

Also an idea from the Discord for Arlinn down the line if we're still trying a Native American angle: some kind of "spirit of the wolf" power that pays homage to her MtG character as well as ties her thematically to VC's Teeth of the Makwa.

flameslayer93
January 5th, 2020, 06:32 PM
The idea was especially true if Arlinn was gonna officially be a shapeshifting werewolf.

Hereís the basic idea:

Wolf Mother
Aquilla
Hybrid/Lycanthrope
Shaman
Wild
Medium 4
Life 6
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 2
Defense 2

Aspect of the Wolf Spirit: Before taking a turn with Wolf Mother, you may transform. Replace Wolf Mother with Aspect of Wolf and immediately take a turn with Aspect of Wolf.
Spirit Guide: Whenever you roll the 20 sided die for a figureís special ability within 4 clear sight spaces you may add 1 to your roll.

Aspect of Wolf
(Bigger stats + a noncheerleader power. Maybe no transforming back?

Pumpkin_King
January 6th, 2020, 03:47 AM
Good ideas - keep them in mind.

Ketchupgeek
February 22nd, 2020, 11:22 PM
Idea for the Eldrazi Scions based on talk in the discord server using a non-restricted version of an Omnicron Repulsor ability:

Accretio Hatchlings

Species Accretio
Unique Squad
Class Minions
Personality Nihilistic
SIZE HEIGHT Medium 4

LIFE 1
MOVE 6
RANGE 1 (maybe 2 if embracing the tentacles/needs something else)
ATTACK 2
DEFENSE 4

60 POINTS

Temporal Distortion:
If an Accretio Hatchling you control successfully defends an attack, you must roll the 20 sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, the attacking figure must immediately end its turn.

All Your Pie
February 23rd, 2020, 11:41 PM
Some brainstorming for the Phoenixes occurred on the Discord channel. Here were some of the ideas for resurrection-type powers they could have.

(PLACEHOLDER 1)
Before taking a turn with (unit), place all previously destroyed Phoenixes on spaces adjacent to any Phoenix you control. At the end of the turn, you must destroy a Phoenix for each PHoenix placed with (power name).

(PLACEHOLDER 2)
At the beginning of the round, you may place (a/all) previously destroyed (unit) adjacent to any (unit) you control.

(PLACEHOLDER 3)
When (unit) receives one or more wounds, roll d20. On X or higher, ignore any wounds received and inflict a wound on (a/all) adjacent unit without the lava resistant special power. (Possible divider-style resurrection mechanic combined with very low defense)

If you were in that convo, let me know if I missed something you wanted to highlight here.

lefton4ya
February 24th, 2020, 03:19 PM
For the Eldrazi Scions, will I get shot if I suggest bonding with Ozuul (Eldrazi Ruiner)? And also maybe immunity to GRAVITY PULL & CRUSHING VORTEX SPECIAL ATTACK (or else edit Ozuul to give immunity to Scions based on species Accretio, etc.)

For Phoenixes's we could reuse Thanos/Azazel's rejected by death, but be the whole squad.
REJECTED BY DEATH
At the start of each of your turns after at least one Phoenix has been destroyed, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 19 or higher, immediately place all previously destroyed Phoenixes on a space adjacent to any figure you control.
Or up the # to like 11 but only have one Phoenix come back each time. Or do similar to water clone except you can do AND take a turn and you roll for destroyed figures:
After revealing an order marker on Phoenixes, one at a time, roll the 20-sided die for each destroyed Phoenix. If you roll a 15 or higher, place a previously destroyed Phoenixes on a same-level space adjacent to a Phoenix in play.

flameslayer93
February 24th, 2020, 04:21 PM
I certainly wonít shoot you lefton4ya .

Iím not against bonding from the Scions towards Ozuul if he stays a non-Outsider race. I wonít advocate them bonding with units who havenít been released, because we canít test them. Itíll be a different thing when they do get released.

Immunity/Auto-Shields to specials are fine in my opinion.

A rebranded Rejected by Death can work for the birds. Iíd rather the roll be a 20, just because of how easy turn stacking is in Classic. Iíve heard enough flak about how ďOPĒ Azazel is from in-person games that Iíd rather take it into account than not.

A once per turn roll can work, but we have to tune the # carefully because single attack heroes will exist in a large amount for the master set.

Pumpkin_King
February 24th, 2020, 08:48 PM
I don't like bonding on unique squads. Not traditional bonding, anyway. There would have to be a compelling reason for it. And traditional bonding is not, itself, a compelling reason.

NecroBlade
March 1st, 2020, 11:56 AM
I'm not against Bonding, but the main thing to be careful of is power level relative to other, synergy-less things in the set. I've always been behind the Special Attack-defense of some kind (and with that in mind is why I preferred Ozuul's attack getting a bonus for adjacent figures, so you could purposefully draw some Space Shrimpô in to boost the attack while relying on their auto-shield or whatever to survive).

For the Phoenices, resurrection of some kind does make sense (and probably caps us out on that mechanic for the set, between them, the Glyph, and the Soul Guides). Maybe something as simple an instead-of-attacking mini DW7K (say 15+ for 1 wound to all adjacent, then destroy itself) plus Rejected by Death style regen (roll once for each, 20+ brings it back).

Owlman
March 2nd, 2020, 12:49 AM
Hey, so I figured I'd brainstorm Sorin, Ghoul Vanguard, and Liliana, since they haven't been claimed by a pod yet. Here's what I got so far:

Sorin of the Eternal Thirst:

Undead
Unique Hero
Vampire
Tricky
Medium 5
Points: 140

Life: 8
Move: 8
Range: 1
Attack: 3
Defense: 2

Parasite Blade Special Attack

Range 1. Attack 3. If Sorin Esenwein inflicted at least 1 wound with this attack, you may roll the 20 sided die. On a result of a 13-19, you may automatically add 1 additional wound. On a result of a 20, destroy the figure.

Life Drain
Each time Sorin of the Eternal Thirst destroys a figure, you may remove a wound marker from this Army Card. Sorin of the Eternal Thirst cannot Life Drain destructible objects.

Stealth Flying
When counting spaces for Sorin of the Eternal Thirst's movement, ignore elevations. Sorin of the Eternal Thirst may fly over water without stopping, pass over figures without becoming engaged, and fly over obstacles such as ruins. When Sorin of the Eternal Thirst starts to fly, if he is engaged he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.


Liliana Vess

Undead
Unique Hero
Sorceress
Terrifying
Medium 4

Life: 6
Move: 5
Range: 4
Attack: 2
Defense: 3
Points: 90


Blend into Shadow

Liliana Vess starts the game with 2 Shadow Tile markers on her Army Card. If Liliana Vess ends her movement on an empty space, you may place a Shadow Tile from her Army Card onto the space she occupies if the Shadow Tile fits normally onto that space.

Summon the Ghoul Vanguard

After taking a turn with Liliana Vess, you may attempt to summon the Ghoul Vanguard if they have not been successfully summoned yet, and are in your army. Roll the 20 sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, you may place all 3 Ghoul Vanguard onto any empty legal space within 5 spaces of Liliana Vess. After the Ghoul Vanuards are summoned you may immediately take a turn with them. (Any Ghoul Vanguards that cannot be legally placed are immediately destroyed.)

Life Drain

Each time Liliana Vess destroys a figure, you may remove a wound marker from this Army Card. Liliana Vess cannot Life Drain destructible objects.


Ghoul Vanguard

Undead
Unique Squad
Ghouls
Tormented
Medium 5

Life: 1
Move: 4
Range: 1
Attack: 2
Defense: 2
Points: 60

Soul Weapons

Figures attacked by a Ghoul Vanguard subtract 2 from their defense dice. (Destructible Objects are not affected by Soul Weapons.)

Phantom Walk

A Ghoul Vanguard may move thru all figures and is never attacked when leaving an engagement.

Intangible

A Ghoul Vanguard is considered to have no visible hit zone, unless he is attacked with a Special Attack.


:)

flameslayer93
March 2nd, 2020, 01:39 AM
Ghoul Vanguard is in with the Axe-wielding zombies to make a squad of 4, but keep the ideas coming! :)

Pumpkin_King
March 2nd, 2020, 01:40 AM
Some good ideas. I know there was some talk about Sorin becoming an Esenwein (remember, we're changing names to work in Heroscape's canon, not Magic's) and remaining a vampire, so you're on the money there.

I do think that the "ghoul vanguard" would have to be re-themed as some sort of shadow monsters, to justify their unpainted nature.

Owlman
March 2nd, 2020, 10:38 AM
Yea, I originally called them "Shadow Demons" actually. I thought about "Sorin Esenwein" but his real name is much cooler I thought, lol. In his bio I was thinking what if he's Cyprien's chief rival on Feylund or something. I created custom cards of all them, just no pics. @Pumpkin King

@flame Gotcha, I guess make em more expensive then...? That'd be a cool 4 man squad to summon, mebbe 80-100 pts?

Owlman
March 4th, 2020, 12:27 AM
Had a cool idea for Chandra I thought I'd throw out:

What if instead of giving her an attack of 4 in 3 hexes and 2 directions (which seems awfully powerful) you give her the ability to either A) target 3 hexes in a straight line and get 4 attack, or split her attack to 2 when she uses two 3 hex lines for her special? (Maybe drop her to 105-110?)

Like this:

TWIN FLAMETHROWERS SPECIAL ATTACK
Range Special. Attack 2 or 4.

Choose one or two straight lines from Pyria, each 3 spaces long. All figures on those spaces who are in line of sight are affected by Pyriaís Twin Flamethrower Special Attack. If you choose 1 straight line from Pyria, roll 4 attack dice for this attack. If you choose 2 straight lines away from Pyria, roll 2 attack dice for this attack. Affected figures roll defense dice separately."

NecroBlade
March 13th, 2020, 10:07 PM
I really like that twist on Pyria, actually.

Pumpkin_King
March 15th, 2020, 03:29 AM
Gives a little more flexibility. Is it worth bringing to her thread?

flameslayer93
March 15th, 2020, 01:45 PM
I’d suggest doing a quick game with that change before really trying it out. Weakening her SA is a big jump, and honestly she hasnt felt OP in my tests.

(Its also worth noting that she’s already quite fun.)

NecroBlade
March 15th, 2020, 03:15 PM
I haven't done any designing of testing on Pyria, I just think it's a clever idea.

Flash_19
April 27th, 2020, 06:57 PM
I don't know if I'm in the right thread, and maybe this has already been suggested elsewhere (I haven't been able to follow this project as closely as I'd like), but if you're thinking about design ideas for the eldrazi scions, I think it would be way cool to have them work with the mind flayers somehow. They seem to fit that theme well and could do some really cool things with the mind flayers.

Keep up the great work guys!

Captain Stupendous
April 30th, 2020, 09:12 AM
What kind of synergy did you have in mind, Flash?

I had another idea for the Scions that, while super weird, could also end up being really fun...

Voidspawn Parasites (Eldrazi Scions)

1 Life / 5 move / 1 Range / 1 Attack / 4 Defense

PSYCHO-SYMBIOSIS
Hero figures roll +1 Attack and Defense dice for each adjacent Voidspawn Parasite.

CLINGING EMBRACE
After moving normally with a hero figure you control, if that hero was adjacent to one or more Voidspawn Parasites at the start of its turn, you may place each of those Voidspawn Parasites on an empty space adjacent to that hero. If a Voidspawn Parasite was engaged when using Clinging Embrace, it will take any leaving engagement attacks.

PARASITIC HUNGER
At the end of each round, destroy each Voidspawn Parasite that is not adjacent to a hero. Then, roll the d20 for each hero adjacent to one or more Voidspawn Parasites. If you roll a 20 or higher, that hero receives a wound. Add 5 to your roll for each Voidspawn Parasite adjacent to that hero.

An alternate version of Parasitic Hunger could be, "at the end of each round, destroy each Voidspawn Parasite that is not adjacent to a hero. Then roll the d20 once for each Voidspawn Parasite you control. If you roll a 15 or higher, deal 1 wound to each hero figure adjacent to that Voidspawn Parasite."

It could also be interesting to make Clinging Embrace mandatory to use if possible...

As written, I'm a little worried that these guys could be overpowered in the right army builds, although Parasitic Hunger is quite the drawback. If necessary, Parasitic Hunger could be modified to only affect friendly heroes to further rein in their power level. Thematically though I love the idea of these guys as alien parasites from another dimension who can psychically increase the strength of their host in exchange for draining their life-force... I can share more thoughts after I get out of work today, but just wanted to throw this out there.

Flash_19
April 30th, 2020, 02:15 PM
What kind of synergy did you have in mind, Flash?

I had another idea for the Scions that, while super weird, could also end up being really fun...

Voidspawn Parasites (Eldrazi Scions)

1 Life / 5 move / 1 Range / 1 Attack / 4 Defense

PSYCHO-SYMBIOSIS
Hero figures roll +1 Attack and Defense dice for each adjacent Voidspawn Parasite.

CLINGING EMBRACE
After moving normally with a hero figure you control, if that hero was adjacent to one or more Voidspawn Parasites at the start of its turn, you may place each of those Voidspawn Parasites on an empty space adjacent to that hero. If a Voidspawn Parasite was engaged when using Clinging Embrace, it will take any leaving engagement attacks.

PARASITIC HUNGER
At the end of each round, destroy each Voidspawn Parasite that is not adjacent to a hero. Then, roll the d20 for each hero adjacent to one or more Voidspawn Parasites. If you roll a 20 or higher, that hero receives a wound. Add 5 to your roll for each Voidspawn Parasite adjacent to that hero.

An alternate version of Parasitic Hunger could be, "at the end of each round, destroy each Voidspawn Parasite that is not adjacent to a hero. Then roll the d20 once for each Voidspawn Parasite you control. If you roll a 15 or higher, deal 1 wound to each hero figure adjacent to that Voidspawn Parasite."

It could also be interesting to make Clinging Embrace mandatory to use if possible...

As written, I'm a little worried that these guys could be overpowered in the right army builds, although Parasitic Hunger is quite the drawback. If necessary, Parasitic Hunger could be modified to only affect friendly heroes to further rein in their power level. Thematically though I love the idea of these guys as alien parasites from another dimension who can psychically increase the strength of their host in exchange for draining their life-force... I can share more thoughts after I get out of work today, but just wanted to throw this out there.

Those are some cool ideas for sure!

My initial thoughts (very unpolished by the way) might include some of the following:

Bonding with a Mindflayer (though I can understand potential arguments against that - including making the set feel like it's incomplete without a mindflayer, which may go against one of the main reasons for the project)

Enhancing the likelihood of Enslave rolls if they are engaged with a figure that is being "Enslaved" (once again, could be an issue if it feels like it reduces the need for Cxurg'gyath or increases the power too much.)

Or you just might give them Enslave with the stipulation that they die after using it. Something like "At the end of your turn if a Scion you control inflicted a wound on a unique hero, you make take a turn with that hero. After taking that turn, destroy one Scion you control."

I dunno. There are some very unpolished ideas. :) Take them for what they're worth.

Astroking112
May 2nd, 2020, 02:10 PM
I'm against having the Scions tied to Mindflayers specifically. It would be a fun boost to units that don't get much playtime outside of scenarios, but we have no Mindflayers in this set.

The most that I could see is a general Enslave booster if we end up changing Tetsuo to use normal Enslave, but it kind of feels like a missed opportunity to have the big purple creatures only synergize with the Neuromancer instead of the giant baddie for the set.

Voidspawn Parasites (Eldrazi Scions)

1 Life / 5 move / 1 Range / 1 Attack / 4 Defense

PSYCHO-SYMBIOSIS
Hero figures roll +1 Attack and Defense dice for each adjacent Voidspawn Parasite.

CLINGING EMBRACE
After moving normally with a hero figure you control, if that hero was adjacent to one or more Voidspawn Parasites at the start of its turn, you may place each of those Voidspawn Parasites on an empty space adjacent to that hero. If a Voidspawn Parasite was engaged when using Clinging Embrace, it will take any leaving engagement attacks.

PARASITIC HUNGER
At the end of each round, destroy each Voidspawn Parasite that is not adjacent to a hero. Then, roll the d20 for each hero adjacent to one or more Voidspawn Parasites. If you roll a 20 or higher, that hero receives a wound. Add 5 to your roll for each Voidspawn Parasite adjacent to that hero.

This is a very fun idea, albeit with some issues. A flat +3/+3 to any hero, even with Parasitic Hunger, would be bonkers in too many situations to be feasible (Charos with 9L, 8A, 8D and Counterstrike, for example). The Scions can also act as a pseudo-screen, given that their 4D is decent on its own. With some tweaks, I think that this idea would be much more feasible:

Voidspawn Parasites (Eldrazi Scions)

1 Life / 2 move / 1 Range / 0 Attack / 4 Defense

PSYCHO-SYMBIOSIS
All Hero figures adjacent to one or more Voidspawn Parasites roll 1 additional attack die and 1 additional defense die.

CLINGING EMBRACE
After moving normally with a hero figure you control, if that hero was adjacent to one or more Voidspawn Parasites at the start of its turn, you may place each of those Voidspawn Parasites on an empty space adjacent to that hero. If a Voidspawn Parasite was engaged when using Clinging Embrace, it will take any leaving engagement attacks.

PARASITIC HUNGER
When a Hero figure ends its turn adjacent to a Voidspawn Parasite, you must roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 1-7, that hero receives a wound.

Limiting them to one per hero helps to encourage hero-heavy builds and limit cases like Tor-Kul-Na getting up to 8D while being able to heal the self-wounds from Nagrubs. It's also more fun to play with in a set of mostly standalone uniques like we have here.

Similarly, I think that simplifying the Parasitic Hunger roll helps keep the card understandable (and flipping it so that bad rolls hurt makes sense and lets glyphs like Lodin find more use). Tying it to after turns instead of at the end of the round is more of a tradeoff (it really helps cheerleaders like Raelin, but it makes them riskier to use overall).

The self-destruction is fun thematically, but the card itself is already fairly complex (plus, you can symbolize their dependence on other life with a super low move and attack, as seen above).

Captain Stupendous
May 2nd, 2020, 02:32 PM
This is a very fun idea, albeit with some issues. A flat +3/+3 to any hero, even with Parasitic Hunger, would be bonkers in too many situations to be feasible (Charos with 9L, 8A, 8D and Counterstrike, for example). The Scions can also act as a pseudo-screen, given that their 4D is decent on its own. With some tweaks, I think that this idea would be much more feasible:

Voidspawn Parasites (Eldrazi Scions)

1 Life / 2 move / 1 Range / 0 Attack / 4 Defense

PSYCHO-SYMBIOSIS
All Hero figures adjacent to one or more Voidspawn Parasites roll 1 additional attack die and 1 additional defense die.

CLINGING EMBRACE
After moving normally with a hero figure you control, if that hero was adjacent to one or more Voidspawn Parasites at the start of its turn, you may place each of those Voidspawn Parasites on an empty space adjacent to that hero. If a Voidspawn Parasite was engaged when using Clinging Embrace, it will take any leaving engagement attacks.

PARASITIC HUNGER
When a Hero figure ends its turn adjacent to a Voidspawn Parasite, you must roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 1-7, that hero receives a wound.

Limiting them to one per hero helps to encourage hero-heavy builds and limit cases like Tor-Kul-Na getting up to 8D while being able to heal the self-wounds from Nagrubs. It's also more fun to play with in a set of mostly standalone uniques like we have here.

Similarly, I think that simplifying the Parasitic Hunger roll helps keep the card understandable (and flipping it so that bad rolls hurt makes sense and lets glyphs like Lodin find more use). Tying it to after turns instead of at the end of the round is more of a tradeoff (it really helps cheerleaders like Raelin, but it makes them riskier to use overall).

The self-destruction is fun thematically, but the card itself is already fairly complex (plus, you can symbolize their dependence on other life with a super low move and attack, as seen above).


As I've thought about these guys more, I definitely agree that stacking the buff would be too strong in certain builds. Syvarris says hi lol. I actually suggested reworking Psycho-Symbiosis to be exactly what you arrived at here in the discord last night!

Regarding the suggestion to have the wound trigger at the end of a turn instead of a round, I think that could work. I do fear that it would encourage them to be used too much with cheerleaders, but we could get a feel for that in playtesting.

In the discord Necroblade raised some thematic concerns regarding the size of the Parasites and their Clinging Embrace power, specifically whether small or medium heroes would realistically be able to drag these things along when the parasites themselves are fairly large. I think its a valid concern that could be addressed a few ways. The most obvious option would be to make Clinging Embrace only work with large or huge heroes. If this weren't part of a master set I think that would be a good solution, but I'm hesitant create a unit that will only work with Ozuul.

Another (potentially too wonky) way to explain how Clinging Embrace works could be to lean into the Voidspawn lore... Ozuul already can manipulate gravity, so maybe along those lines this species (assuming the Parasites and Ozuul are from the same planet) is affected by gravity differently and they are actually fairly light relative to their size?

Another option could be to replace Clinging Embrace with a bonding type power.
Something like:

PSYCHIC BONDING
Before taking a turn with Voidspawn Parasites, you may first take a turn with any hero you control that is adjacent to at least one Voidspawn Parasite you control.

Obviously that would change the unit pretty significantly, although I'm not sure that they would be too much more powerful overall?

It would be better in the sense that this would give you a little bit of order marker flexibility, although most of the time you probably wouldn't want to have these guys next to too many different heroes (although this is only really true if the wound happens at the end of round).

But it would also mean that a hero couldn't take advantage of the attack boost if they moved that turn.

Another advantage this version would have is the ability to attack with the hero and the parasites with one order marker, but with such a weak attack value I don't think most of the time thats gonna count for much

flameslayer93
May 2nd, 2020, 04:31 PM
Over in the discord, I casually tossed out an idea to give at least 1 unit in the box Sand Strength: +1 attack and defense while sitting on a sand space.

It caused a lot of flak, with several folks saying they weren’t in favor of it mainly because terrain based powers historically suck. I dig that. I really do.

But I’d like to throw out an example of where it might be reasonable without being sucky, nor the core of the design but a thematic augmentation of it.

I present:

Rhinos of the Endless Desert

Jandar/Statues/Unique Squad/Dauntless/Medium 6

1 Life/3 Troops/4 Move/1 Range/2 Attack/4 Defense

Living Statues: If there are no revealed order markers on this Army Card, add 2 to the defense of this Army Card. If there are revealed order markers on this Army Card, add 1 to the move of this Army Card for every revealed Order Marker.

Desert Strength: Rhinos of the Endless Desert on a Sand space roll 1 additional combat die when attacking or defending.

70 points

The idea is that the Rhinos are squarely in the defender role, charging into battle to engage intruders and being from the desert itself, they’ve mastered fighting in it. After they have reached a comfortable position in battle, they know how to hunker down and use their stony bodies to their advantage. They’ll lose this bonus once they start moving, but once they do they go surprisingly fast. The stats can naturally be tweaked, but the idea is there.

I also argue that a sand terrain power fits because its very simple to implement, it offers another power direction we can give to the Master Set which is something that will help sell the box to new ‘scapers, it introduces the concept of the power to new players, and sand is pretty common on competitive maps anyway so its not like the power won’t *ever* get used. We don’t have to give the Angel statue the power, either. Carr didn’t get Stealth Dodge after all.

NecroBlade
May 2nd, 2020, 05:15 PM
Voidspawn Parasites (Eldrazi Scions)

1 Life / 2 move / 1 Range / 0 Attack / 4 Defense

PSYCHO-SYMBIOSIS
All Hero figures adjacent to one or more Voidspawn Parasites roll 1 additional attack die and 1 additional defense die.

CLINGING EMBRACE
After moving normally with a hero figure you control, if that hero was adjacent to one or more Voidspawn Parasites at the start of its turn, you may place each of those Voidspawn Parasites on an empty space adjacent to that hero. If a Voidspawn Parasite was engaged when using Clinging Embrace, it will take any leaving engagement attacks.

PARASITIC HUNGER
When a Hero figure ends its turn adjacent to a Voidspawn Parasite, you must roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 1-7, that hero receives a wound.
Personally I think even a flat +1/+1 to any Hero could be more problematic than it's worth. Synergies are typically tied to one or more attributes like Species, Class, or Personality to make it easier not to accidentally break them.

I also think Clinging Embrace is a terrible name, or at least it could lean on the Voidspawn lore more, like Gravity Drag or something. That would also help explain why even small and medium heroes can "carry" them (they're not so small themselves).


In the discord Necroblade raised some thematic concerns regarding the size of the Parasites and their Clinging Embrace power, specifically whether small or medium heroes would realistically be able to drag these things along when the parasites themselves are fairly large. I think its a valid concern that could be addressed a few ways. The most obvious option would be to make Clinging Embrace only work with large or huge heroes. If this weren't part of a master set I think that would be a good solution, but I'm hesitant create a unit that will only work with Ozuul.

-snip-

Another option could be to replace Clinging Embrace with a bonding type power.
Something like:

PSYCHIC BONDING
Before taking a turn with Voidspawn Parasites, you may first take a turn with any hero you control that is adjacent to at least one Voidspawn Parasite you control.
As far as large/huge, you could let any figure drag them, even though they only give their bonus to heroes. Then the Ukashisa can have mild synergy with them, too.

Psychic Bonding is a terrible idea, IMO, for the same reason as above: blanket synergy tends to get out of control. See: Raelin (who, btw, would be even more gooder than she already is with either of those powers).

Over in the discord, I casually tossed out an idea to give at least 1 unit in the box Sand Strength: +1 attack and defense while sitting on a sand space.

It caused a lot of flak, with several folks saying they werenít in favor of it mainly because terrain based powers historically suck. I dig that. I really do.

But Iíd like to throw out an example of where it might be reasonable without being sucky, nor the core of the design but a thematic augmentation of it.

I present:

Rhinos of the Endless Desert

Jandar/Statues/Unique Squad/Dauntless/Medium 6

1 Life/3 Troops/4 Move/1 Range/2 Attack/4 Defense

Living Statues: If there are no unrevealed order markers on this Army Card, add 2 to the defense of this Army Card. If there are revealed order markers on this Army Card, add 1 to the move of this Army Card for every revealed Order Marker.

Desert Strength: Rhinos of the Endless Desert on a Sand space roll 1 additional combat die when attacking or defending.

70 points

The idea is that the Rhinos are squarely in the defender role, charging into battle to engage intruders and being from the desert itself, theyíve mastered fighting in it. After they have reached a comfortable position in battle, they know how to hunker down and use their stony bodies to their advantage. Theyíll lose this bonus once they start moving, but once they do they go surprisingly fast. The stats can naturally be tweaked, but the idea is there.

I also argue that a sand terrain power fits because its very simple to implement, it offers another power direction we can give to the Master Set which is something that will help sell the box to new Ďscapers, it introduces the concept of the power to new players, and sand is pretty common on competitive maps anyway so its not like the power wonít *ever* get used. We donít have to give the Angel statue the power, either. Carr didnít get Stealth Dodge after all.
I can agree with the sentiment that terrain based powers are reasonable as something "new players should learn" and thus Master-Set worthy. I don't like using sand, though. The other Master Set examples (Swamp Water Strength and Hide in Darkness) used the terrain that was new to those sets (and yes, if you want to stretch, Water Clone, but all terrain was new then ;) ). I would prefer to use the "weird" spaces. Whether or not we come up with rules for that terrain on its own (or just scenario-based), it helps the unit feel more special and connected to Arena of the Valkyrie.

As for Living Statues, that first line is actually pretty close to what I suggested for such a power. And the intent was to have it work in such a way that the Avacyn unit could have the same power, and they both powers would be "active" if you drafted them together. But then, let's bring that up in the Pod that's starting soon. :)

flameslayer93
May 2nd, 2020, 05:35 PM
No worries on whether or not sand should be the target terrain here, though I do worry about designing a unit to use weird tiles before the wierd tiles are designed. I also really worry about how that would go through the SoV - having a power that relies on unofficial terrain sounds like a no-go for them. The SoV isn’t goal #1, but it is a secondary goal.

And yeah, I recall your old statue design rocking a similar feel. Very tangible power. :)

Astroking112
May 2nd, 2020, 06:17 PM
In the discord Necroblade raised some thematic concerns regarding the size of the Parasites and their Clinging Embrace power, specifically whether small or medium heroes would realistically be able to drag these things along when the parasites themselves are fairly large. I think its a valid concern that could be addressed a few ways. The most obvious option would be to make Clinging Embrace only work with large or huge heroes. If this weren't part of a master set I think that would be a good solution, but I'm hesitant create a unit that will only work with Ozuul.

Another (potentially too wonky) way to explain how Clinging Embrace works could be to lean into the Voidspawn lore... Ozuul already can manipulate gravity, so maybe along those lines this species (assuming the Parasites and Ozuul are from the same planet) is affected by gravity differently and they are actually fairly light relative to their size?

I have absolutely no qualms with the Scions being dragged along by small/medium heroes as well. It's a little wonky to be sure, but so is an ant being turned into a Zombie of Morindan when it dies. IMO, this is one of those "game first, simulation later" situations.

If it's a bother thematically, then it can just be renamed anyway--like you said, limiting Clinging Embrace to only Ozuul in this set (or even him and the Ukushisa) would be pretty underwhelming.

Another option could be to replace Clinging Embrace with a bonding type power.
Something like:

PSYCHIC BONDING
Before taking a turn with Voidspawn Parasites, you may first take a turn with any hero you control that is adjacent to at least one Voidspawn Parasite you control.

I'm hesitant to go that far if only because of how it limits the design space for all heroes. Some units like Kato Katsuro (unfortunately) don't require Order Markers to use multiple activations. Even if there aren't any problematic cases right now (Kato would hardly be the best choice for these guys), it could limit future Unique Heroes and their design space.


Personally I think even a flat +1/+1 to any Hero could be more problematic than it's worth. Synergies are typically tied to one or more attributes like Species, Class, or Personality to make it easier not to accidentally break them.

I also think Clinging Embrace is a terrible name, or at least it could lean on the Voidspawn lore more, like Gravity Drag or something. That would also help explain why even small and medium heroes can "carry" them (they're not so small themselves).

The flat +1/+1 to any hero would definitely be something to test carefully, but I don't think that it's untenable with the high chance of an auto-wound after each turn or round.

Clinging Embrace is a nice little nod to the other parasitic monsters in VC (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=37624), but any name would work, especially when we have Ozuul manipulating gravity as he sees fit.

Over in the discord, I casually tossed out an idea to give at least 1 unit in the box Sand Strength: +1 attack and defense while sitting on a sand space.

It caused a lot of flak, with several folks saying they weren’t in favor of it mainly because terrain based powers historically suck. I dig that. I really do.

I have no problems at all with using Sand Strength if it fits the design. I don't feel obligated to do so, but plenty of other terrain releases have a unit boosted by that terrain.

It is worth noting that we'll probably need to rule the basic sand tiles on the cardboard mats as sand, though (I'd imagine the 3D hexes will be sandstone or the like). This means that the vast majority of our battlefields are going to be built out of sand, so the unit would almost always get the bonus in this box and need to be balanced as such.

Captain Stupendous
May 2nd, 2020, 06:24 PM
Over in the discord, I casually tossed out an idea to give at least 1 unit in the box Sand Strength: +1 attack and defense while sitting on a sand space.

It caused a lot of flak, with several folks saying they werenít in favor of it mainly because terrain based powers historically suck. I dig that. I really do.

But Iíd like to throw out an example of where it might be reasonable without being sucky, nor the core of the design but a thematic augmentation of it.

I present:

Rhinos of the Endless Desert

Jandar/Statues/Unique Squad/Dauntless/Medium 6

1 Life/3 Troops/4 Move/1 Range/2 Attack/4 Defense

Living Statues: If there are no unrevealed order markers on this Army Card, add 2 to the defense of this Army Card. If there are revealed order markers on this Army Card, add 1 to the move of this Army Card for every revealed Order Marker.

Desert Strength: Rhinos of the Endless Desert on a Sand space roll 1 additional combat die when attacking or defending.

70 points

The idea is that the Rhinos are squarely in the defender role, charging into battle to engage intruders and being from the desert itself, theyíve mastered fighting in it. After they have reached a comfortable position in battle, they know how to hunker down and use their stony bodies to their advantage. Theyíll lose this bonus once they start moving, but once they do they go surprisingly fast. The stats can naturally be tweaked, but the idea is there.

I also argue that a sand terrain power fits because its very simple to implement, it offers another power direction we can give to the Master Set which is something that will help sell the box to new Ďscapers, it introduces the concept of the power to new players, and sand is pretty common on competitive maps anyway so its not like the power wonít *ever* get used. We donít have to give the Angel statue the power, either. Carr didnít get Stealth Dodge after all.

I do really like this direction for Living Statues. Although I wonder if the power would be a little more intuitive if the defense boost was given as long as there are no revealed order markers on the card. That way both parts of the power reference the same thing, rather than the defense boost checking for unrevealed order markers, and the movement boost checking for revealed order markers.

If only for the sake of unit diversity, I'm still not sold on the idea of a terrain based power. With the exception of the Marro Warriors, most terrain based units just don't feel good to play when you know you're not getting your full potential out of them. Even if they're technically still balanced on maps without sand, psychologically I just don't think most new players are going to feel good about it. However, its not a hill I'd die on, just a personal preference.

flameslayer93
May 2nd, 2020, 06:25 PM
Woops! Living Statues is supposed to only apply the defense if there are no revealed markers. My mistake. :)

Captain Stupendous
May 2nd, 2020, 06:29 PM
Woops! Living Statues is supposed to only apply the defense if there are no revealed markers. My mistake. :)

In that case I love it :lol:

Captain Stupendous
May 2nd, 2020, 07:01 PM
Another option could be to replace Clinging Embrace with a bonding type power.
Something like:

PSYCHIC BONDING
Before taking a turn with Voidspawn Parasites, you may first take a turn with any hero you control that is adjacent to at least one Voidspawn Parasite you control.

I'm hesitant to go that far if only because of how it limits the design space for all heroes. Some units like Kato Katsuro (unfortunately) don't require Order Markers to use multiple activations. Even if there aren't any problematic cases right now (Kato would hardly be the best choice for these guys), it could limit future Unique Heroes and their design space.

Bummer, when I was thinking through how this would work I specifically checked the cards for Ornak, Kantono Daishi and Lao Xin to see how their commander affects were worded for that very reason, and I thought it would be okay because of the order marker requirement. Forgot about Kato Katsuro. I'm guessing most future c3v commander type heroes would have a similar order marker requirement so it wouldn't actually be an issue, but I understand the concerns about potentially limiting the design space. Basically, these guys just need some kind of ability that lets them keep up with the heroes they're boosting. As far as the power level of the unrestricted bonding goes, in practice I don't think it would actually prove to be much more powerful than Clinging Embrace, mainly because these guys would have such minimal offensive potential. Ninety percent of the time the bonding would just provide a means of moving the parasites adjacent to the hero that they bonded with, which is the same result as them being carried by Clinging Embrace (which I am totally open to renaming). If anything, Clinging Embrace is going to be more useful than Psychic Bonding because with Clinging Embrace the parasites can take advantage of the hero's movement abilities like flying, as well as "slingshot" around the hero to position themselves on spaces they couldn't reach using Psychic Bonding and 5 movement.


[SIZE="3"][FONT="Times New Roman"]Personally I think even a flat +1/+1 to any Hero could be more problematic than it's worth. Synergies are typically tied to one or more attributes like Species, Class, or Personality to make it easier not to accidentally break them.

I definitely understand the hesitancy to give these guys unrestricted synergy with any unique hero, but I agree with Astro that I don't think its untenable. I also think the argument could be made that if there's any place for an unrestricted aura type power, its in a master set. Players with only a few different units in their collection will really benefit if most of those units can function well when combined together in many different configurations. And that's historically what we've seen in the master sets. I know none of us want to create another RotV Raelin, but the original master sets also gave us Finn, Thorgrim, and SotM Raelin who were all designed to work well with a wide variety of units, and none of those have proven problematic.

Astroking112
May 2nd, 2020, 07:39 PM
Bummer, when I was thinking through how this would work I specifically checked the cards for Ornak, Kantono Daishi and Lao Xin to see how their commander affects were worded for that very reason, and I thought it would be okay because of the order marker requirement. Forgot about Kato Katsuro. I'm guessing most future c3v commander type heroes would have a similar order marker requirement so it wouldn't actually be an issue, but I understand the concerns about potentially limiting the design space. Basically, these guys just need some kind of ability that lets them keep up with the heroes they're boosting. As far as the power level of the unrestricted bonding goes, in practice I don't think it would actually prove to be much more powerful than Clinging Embrace, mainly because these guys would have such minimal offensive potential. Ninety percent of the time the bonding would just provide a means of moving the parasites adjacent to the hero that they bonded with, which is the same result as them being carried by Clinging Embrace (which I am totally open to renaming). If anything, Clinging Embrace is going to be more useful than Psychic Bonding because with Clinging Embrace the parasites can take advantage of the hero's movement abilities like flying, as well as "slingshot" around the hero to position themselves on spaces they couldn't reach using Psychic Bonding and 5 movement.

Yeah, it probably won't be an issue in any VC releases (they've generally been much better about including OM language anyway), but I'm still hesitant to go ahead with that.

I do agree with you that it isn't actually a big buff in terms of strength--if anything, it makes them weaker, like you said. You lose out on the guaranteed placement, have to limit yourself to 5 move in many cases, lose out on the attack bonus if you had to move, and generally have less Order Marker security if you're placing it on the Unique 1L/4D parasites. The extra 3 minimal attacks aren't worth it, IMO--the squad will be more fun and effective if they're literally just parasites following around your hero.

flameslayer93
May 6th, 2020, 03:08 PM
Just a couple tosser ideas...

Shadows of War
4-men 4 move 1 range 2 attack 2 defense

Deadly Strike
Slow Reaction: Shadows of War cannot give leaving engagement attacks.

Shadows of Gluttony
3-men 4 move 1 range 3 attack 3 defense

Endless Hunger: If a Shadow of Gluttony destroys a figure, it must attack again.

Statue of Hope
3 Life 5 Move 1 Range 2 Attack 6 Defense

Stone’s Blessing: Begin the game with 4 Blessing markers on this Army Card. Before attacking with Statue of Hope, choose a unique figure within 4 clear sight spaces of it and place either an Attack Blessing or Defense Blessing on its Army Card. If that Army Card already had a Blessing, remove the old one. Figures with the Attack Blessing receive +1 attack. Figures with the Defense Blessing receive +1 defense.
Flying

Captain Stupendous
May 6th, 2020, 09:31 PM
Just a couple tosser ideas...

Shadows of War
4-men 4 move 1 range 2 attack 2 defense

Deadly Strike
Slow Reaction: Shadows of War cannot give leaving engagement attacks.

Shadows of Gluttony
3-men 4 move 1 range 3 attack 3 defense

Endless Hunger: If a Shadow of Gluttony destroys a figure, it must attack again.

Statue of Hope
3 Life 5 Move 1 Range 2 Attack 6 Defense

Stone’s Blessing: Begin the game with 4 Blessing markers on this Army Card. Before attacking with Statue of Hope, choose a unique figure within 4 clear sight spaces of it and place either an Attack Blessing or Defense Blessing on its Army Card. If that Army Card already had a Blessing, remove the old one. Figures with the Attack Blessing receive +1 attack. Figures with the Defense Blessing receive +1 defense.
Flying

These are some good ideas! With only four move and 2 defense I don't think the shadows of war will do a whole lot, but that's okay because we do want to have a diverse set of point values.

The Shadows of Gluttony are also nice and simple, but Endless Hunger would still involve some interesting tactical considerations.

The statue idea is very neat, and actually pretty similar to an idea I was toying around with for Kiora:

Blessing of the Hidden Stars

After moving and before attacking, you may choose a unique hero within 6 clear sight spaces of Kiora and place a blessing token on their army card. If the chosen hero is not within 6 clear sight spaces of Kiora at the start of their turn, remove the blessing token from their card. Add 1 attack and 1 defense to any card with a blessing token on it.


I'm guessing that for the statue there would be two different kinds of blessing markers? As written I'm not sure how you would distinguish between different kinds of blessings. Other than that though I think its a cool idea, and its definitely an interesting and unique alternative to the standard "aura style" of buffing.

flameslayer93
May 7th, 2020, 12:26 AM
Ah, there are two sided markers in one of the boxes. One side has Swords and the other has Shields. Pretty easy to differentiate the two with that in mind. :)

Astroking112
May 7th, 2020, 02:18 AM
Ah, there are two sided markers in one of the boxes. One side has Swords and the other has Shields. Pretty easy to differentiate the two with that in mind. :)

It is also worth noting that classic HeroScape has no way to distinguish between double-sided markers. ;) I'd be open to exploring that mechanic, but it's definitely pushing new territory mechanically and would require some new rules definitions that people might not be comfortable with making.

I like the uncommon statlines you've proposed. It's kind of problematic for the Shadows of War, giving off some Einar Imperium vibes (4 attacks of 2 with Deadly Strike is very dangerous, but 4 move with 2 defense means they probably won't get to take advantage of it), but overall I really like pushing for some less beefy Unique Squads.

flameslayer93
May 7th, 2020, 08:02 AM
Of any possible upcomming rules additions (Pillars of Har, Weird Spaces, and possibly a transforming werewolf), I suspect double sided markers will be the tamest one and the least likely to catch flak. After all, those pieces actually come in the box. ;)

NecroBlade
May 9th, 2020, 05:07 PM
Markers-wise, I think there are 5 of the sword/shield double-sided, and 3 of the sunburst. I'd love to see a creative use of both and don't see how double-sided markers would be an issue, given that it'll most likely be spelled out on the card.

lefton4ya
May 10th, 2020, 04:47 PM
How about for the Scions:
PARASITIC MOVEMENT
Instead of moving normally, a Scion may move any adjacent figure up to their maximum move value. That figure does not take any disengagement attacks. If a Scion uses PARASITIC MOVEMENT it also must use CLINGING MOVE on the same figure.

CLINGING MOVE
Anytime a figure starts its movement next to a Scion, after it is finished moving you may place a Scion adjacent to that figure. Only one Scion may be placed per figure movement.

The wording needs cleaned up immensely but you get the idea. I like this because it kinda makes them like RATS or Gladiatrons in that once the Scions get engaged they stay engaged, but still lets opponents attack other melee targets, just not at range. Also any friendly figure can "Carry" Scions around. And also help Ozuul as they provide more mass for CRUSHING VORTEX, but does make the combo of CLINGING MOVE and GRAVITY PULL complicated as I have worded, so needs cleaned up.

I'd also like to use these markers - any ideas who/where?
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/FVAAAOSwsl9bnXjb/s-l640.jpg https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/qHcAAOSw-BpbnXjm/s-l640.jpg

flameslayer93
May 10th, 2020, 08:19 PM
There was an Angel of Hope design up there... ;)

flameslayer93
May 23rd, 2020, 04:21 PM
Just an idea. It would be cool to have unique cards blanks for this set like how the other master sets had their own themes. Since its a desert and ruins themed box, maybe the decorative bits could have worn/faded colors and the backgrounds could feature dusty dunes (with even a crypolith in the distance?). Worn out general symbols/names would also add to the aesthetic.

NecroBlade
May 24th, 2020, 09:33 PM
That could be fun, if someone was up for it.

Captain Stupendous
July 12th, 2020, 11:17 AM
Here's another idea I had for Arlinn Kord (Werewolf) that was inspired by some posts by @sonofarathorn and @flameslayer over on the discord server. HOWL OF THE BLOOD MOON was @sonofarathorn's idea, and @flameslayer helped me flesh out and think through the draft below.

Arlinn Kord Werewolf
Utgar (Feylund)
Wolf / Unique Hero / Hunter / Relentless

4 Life / 6 Move / 4 Attack / 5 Defense

HOWL OF THE BLOOD MOON
After placing Order Markers, if there is at least one unrevealed Order Marker on this card, you may add 5 to your initiative roll at the beginning of this Round.

INTO THE NIGHT
Friendly Hunters are never attacked when leaving engagement with a squad figure within 6 clear sight spaces of Arlinn.


I think this version probably synergizes best with the Varkaanan faction, as most of them are hunters and as a unique wolf she/he can bond with the squads via Wolf Pack. However, she also helps the Badru too, and on her own she can fulfill a nice first strike roll, with her initiative boost and conditional disengage.

Within the context of the set, I don't think she is overly reliant on being used with other hunters for her to earn her points. Into the Night is nice, but its fairly situational. I think that most of the time when drafting her, you're doing so for the initiative boost. That being said, within our set the Ukushisa Pride are currently hunters, and given the importance of positioning for them, I could see the disengage as being pretty useful.

Ericth74
July 12th, 2020, 01:57 PM
I always thought this figure would fit best with the Anubian Wolves. Varks have a few heroes with synergies, the poor Anubians only have Khosumet who is awful.

Here's another idea I had for Arlinn Kord (Werewolf) that was inspired by some posts by @sonofarathorn and @flameslayer over on the discord server. HOWL OF THE BLOOD MOON was @sonofarathorn's idea, and @flameslayer helped me flesh out and think through the draft below.

Arlinn Kord Werewolf
Utgar (Feylund)
Wolf / Unique Hero / Hunter / Relentless

4 Life / 6 Move / 4 Attack / 5 Defense

HOWL OF THE BLOOD MOON
After placing Order Markers, if there is at least one unrevealed Order Marker on this card, you may add 5 to your initiative roll at the beginning of this Round.

INTO THE NIGHT
Friendly Hunters are never attacked when leaving engagement with a squad figure within 6 clear sight spaces of Arlinn.


I think this version probably synergizes best with the Varkaanan faction, as most of them are hunters and as a unique wolf she/he can bond with the squads via Wolf Pack. However, she also helps the Badru too, and on her own she can fulfill a nice first strike roll, with her initiative boost and conditional disengage.

Within the context of the set, I don't think she is overly reliant on being used with other hunters for her to earn her points. Into the Night is nice, but its fairly situational. I think that most of the time when drafting her, you're doing so for the initiative boost. That being said, within our set the Ukushisa Pride are currently hunters, and given the importance of positioning for them, I could see the disengage as being pretty useful.

capsocrates
July 12th, 2020, 03:05 PM
I like that draft, CaptainStupendous. I think 3 defense would be much more appropriate than 5. I really like how she interacts with Varks, Badru, and the Ukushisa Pride.

Captain Stupendous
July 13th, 2020, 09:15 PM
My original draft looked like this, which would have actually helped the Anubians and Badru more (changes in bold):

Arlinn Kord Werewolf
Utgar (Feylund)
Wolf / Unique Hero / Darklord / Relentless

4 Life / 6 Move / 4 Attack / 5 Defense

HOWL OF THE BLOOD MOON
After placing Order Markers, if there is at least one unrevealed Order Marker on this card, you may add 5 to your initiative roll at the beginning of this Round.

RELENTLESS ADVANCE
Friendly figures with a relentless personality are never attacked when leaving engagement with a squad figure within 6 clear sight spaces of Arlinn.

The biggest issue with this version is my impression that there are a lot more relentless figures that would benefit from the disengage than there are hunters, and those synergy implications would need to be considered. The most significant figures would probably be Incendiborgs, but I could also see her making the Knights of Blackgaard too effective.

Overall, I think I prefer the Hunter synergy more than Relentless, but I could see a case being made for either version.

Regarding the Defense, I'm not overly attached to any aspect of her statline. My thought process with giving her 4 L and 5 D was mainly to provide some more variation in defense values within the Master Set, as at this point a lot of our heroes have three defense, and hardly any figures in general have more than 4. However, I'd be happy to explore other values if that would lead to a stronger design. Of course, this is all very preliminary anyway, I'm more sharing just in the hopes of potentially inspiring whoever ends up working on Arlinn's pod to take this idea in their own direction.

Ericth74
July 13th, 2020, 09:47 PM
Anubians, Badru and Varks are all Wolves, could possibly play off of that? I get using Relentless being too powerful though, makes sense.

Maybe some type of movement power, lots of attack buffs so far in this set.

Leader of the Pack
After taking a turn with Arlinn, you may move X (3 or 4 maybe?) Wolves X amount of spaces (4?)

Just an idea. Not married to anything. The figure just feels like an Anubian Leader.


My original draft looked like this, which would have actually helped the Anubians and Badru more (changes in bold):

Arlinn Kord Werewolf
Utgar (Feylund)
Wolf / Unique Hero / Darklord / Relentless

4 Life / 6 Move / 4 Attack / 5 Defense

HOWL OF THE BLOOD MOON
After placing Order Markers, if there is at least one unrevealed Order Marker on this card, you may add 5 to your initiative roll at the beginning of this Round.

RELENTLESS ADVANCE
Friendly figures with a relentless personality are never attacked when leaving engagement with a squad figure within 6 clear sight spaces of Arlinn.

The biggest issue with this version is my impression that there are a lot more relentless figures that would benefit from the disengage than there are hunters, and those synergy implications would need to be considered. The most significant figures would probably be Incendiborgs, but I could also see her making the Knights of Blackgaard too effective.

Overall, I think I prefer the Hunter synergy more than Relentless, but I could see a case being made for either version.

Regarding the Defense, I'm not overly attached to any aspect of her statline. My thought process with giving her 4 L and 5 D was mainly to provide some more variation in defense values within the Master Set, as at this point a lot of our heroes have three defense, and hardly any figures in general have more than 4. However, I'd be happy to explore other values if that would lead to a stronger design. Of course, this is all very preliminary anyway, I'm more sharing just in the hopes of potentially inspiring whoever ends up working on Arlinn's pod to take this idea in their own direction.

Captain Stupendous
July 13th, 2020, 10:32 PM
Anubians, Badru and Varks are all Wolves, could possibly play off of that? I get using Relentless being too powerful though, makes sense.

Maybe some type of movement power, lots of attack buffs so far in this set.

Leader of the Pack
After taking a turn with Arlinn, you may move X (3 or 4 maybe?) Wolves X amount of spaces (4?)

Just an idea. Not married to anything. The figure just feels like an Anubian Leader.


My original draft looked like this, which would have actually helped the Anubians and Badru more (changes in bold):

Arlinn Kord Werewolf
Utgar (Feylund)
Wolf / Unique Hero / Darklord / Relentless

4 Life / 6 Move / 4 Attack / 5 Defense

HOWL OF THE BLOOD MOON
After placing Order Markers, if there is at least one unrevealed Order Marker on this card, you may add 5 to your initiative roll at the beginning of this Round.

RELENTLESS ADVANCE
Friendly figures with a relentless personality are never attacked when leaving engagement with a squad figure within 6 clear sight spaces of Arlinn.

The biggest issue with this version is my impression that there are a lot more relentless figures that would benefit from the disengage than there are hunters, and those synergy implications would need to be considered. The most significant figures would probably be Incendiborgs, but I could also see her making the Knights of Blackgaard too effective.

Overall, I think I prefer the Hunter synergy more than Relentless, but I could see a case being made for either version.

Regarding the Defense, I'm not overly attached to any aspect of her statline. My thought process with giving her 4 L and 5 D was mainly to provide some more variation in defense values within the Master Set, as at this point a lot of our heroes have three defense, and hardly any figures in general have more than 4. However, I'd be happy to explore other values if that would lead to a stronger design. Of course, this is all very preliminary anyway, I'm more sharing just in the hopes of potentially inspiring whoever ends up working on Arlinn's pod to take this idea in their own direction.

While I like that idea (especially for a standalone SoV custom or something), the only problem with giving her wolf synergy is that she is the only wolf in the master set. Hunter synergy allows her to synergize with the Ukushisa, while Relentless synergy would allow her to help Pyria. I'm fairly hesitant to give her a cheerleader ability that has no use within the master set.

Ericth74
July 13th, 2020, 10:39 PM
I hear you and that makes complete sense. My only counterpoint would be Grimnak was in the 1st master set and gave orc bonuses with no other orcs in the set.

Certainly Grimmak is no cheerleader though.

Captain Stupendous
July 14th, 2020, 07:38 PM
I hear you and that makes complete sense. My only counterpoint would be Grimnak was in the 1st master set and gave orc bonuses with no other orcs in the set.

Certainly Grimmak is no cheerleader though.

That's fair. After thinking about it a bit more, we could also just "pull a Concan" and have the ability affect both Hunters and Devourers. Devourer is also such a niche class that adding it doesn't significantly expand her synergy beyond the Anubians.

INTO THE NIGHT
Friendly Hunters and Devourers are never attacked when leaving engagement with a squad figure within 6 clear sight spaces of Arlinn.

This version is arguably slightly less elegant, but I do like how it includes the Badru, Anubians, and Varkaanans in its effect, while also working with the Ukushisa within the master set. Also, the name "Into the Night" is generic enough that I could thematically imagine both Hunters and Devourers vanishing "into the night," as it were.

Strack9
October 3rd, 2020, 05:15 AM
I've been lurking lately and following some of the progress on the AotV threads and wanted to try to put some brainpower towards some of the unassigned figures so here's my stab at turning Arlinn Kord (wolf form) into an Anubianesque hero.

ANUPET (Anput?)

Wolf
Unique Hero
Devourer
Relentless
Medium 5

Life 5
Move 6
Range 1
Attack 3
Defense 4
Points 90


Unleashed (Furious) Frenzy

After you take a turn with Anupet, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 16 or higher you must (may?) place a wound marker on Anupet and take another turn with her.

Furious (Unleashed) Assault

Anupet must attack all figures adjacent to her. Roll each attack separately.




I wanted to get an Anubian feel with a d20 roll and a berserkerish chance to deal herself damage. Thereís no direct synergy with the Anubians, but she can stand alone in a master set.


synergies:

- DUMUTEF GUARD : Devourer Attack Enhancement
As Devourers, Anupet may benefit from Dumutef Guardís DEVOURER ATTACK ENHANCEMENT.

- KHOSUMET THE DARKLORD : Relentless Assault
Having a relentless personality, Anupet may benefit from Khosumet the Darklordís RELENTLESS ASSAULT attack bonus.

- DEATH KNIGHTS OF VALKRILL : RELENTLESS HEROES : UNHOLY BONDING : As a Medium hero with "Relentless" personality, Anupet may benefit from the Death Knights of Valkrill's UNHOLY BONDING activation synergy.

- ORNAK : Red Flag of Fury
As a unique hero that follows Utgar, Anupet may benefit from Ornakís RED FLAG OF FURY activation synergy.

- KNIGHTS OF BLACKGAARD : RELENTLESS ARMY ATTACK BONUS
Having a Relentless personality, Anupet may aid the Knights of Blackgaard with their RELENTLESS ARMY ATTACK BONUS.

- VARKAANAN DARKCLAWS / VARKAANAN GREYSPEARS / VARKAANAN QUICKBLADES / VARKAANAN SWIFTFANGS : WOLF PACK: UNIQUE WOLF ARMY CARDS
As a Unique Wolf figure, Anupet may aid the Varkaanans with their WOLF PACK activation synergy.

Strack9
October 3rd, 2020, 05:48 AM
I also feel that desire to help the Anubians and I like this:
Leader of the Pack
After taking a turn with Arlinn, you may move X (3 or 4 maybe?) Wolves X amount of spaces (4?)
except I think it helps the Varcaans move too far when they're using their Wolf Pack power to bond with a wolf hero, especially because Arlinn already synergizes with them just by being a wolf. Maybe if it were common wolves only, or Devourers. Has anything been talked about being turned into a Devourer from these sets yet?

What about a Frenetic Aura that lets one improve their 20-sided dice roll for the cost of a wound? There's some AotP figures shaping up to use the 20-sided die??!

Frenetic Aura
After rolling the 20-sided die for the Army card of a figure you control within 4 clear sight spaces of Anupet, a figure from that Army Card may receive a wound to add 1 to your 20-sided Die roll.

BekerChief
October 21st, 2020, 11:21 AM
Hi Guys,

Played heroscape with my brother when I was a kid, sold it, cried me a river after price inflation, and recently picked up a master set and rise of the planeswalker set again.

I have an idea for the eldrazi scions. Maybe it can be applied to other units, but the scions seemed the most fitting:

Essence of [UNIT NAME]
When a [UNIT NAME] dies it leaves behind an egg. Cracking the egg and drinking the mystic [UNIT NAME] juice gives the hero/unique squad a temporary bonus (say +1 attack) for the rest of the round. A unit must be adjacent to gain the benifits from drinking the juice. A ranged attack can still destroy the egg.

Stats for the egg could be 1 life, 0 movement, 0 attack, 1 defence.

It gives the scions essentially 2 life. Not killing them leaves it open for the opponent to kill his own scions for a bonus attack.

Could also open up other synergies, where units gain other benifits by cracking eggs.

Might be posting some other ideas in the near future. Really like this thread!

Final disclaimer: I haven't read all the posts so it might be that a direction is already chosen. Either way, I liked to share my ideas :P

Captain Stupendous
October 21st, 2020, 02:10 PM
Hi Guys,

Played heroscape with my brother when I was a kid, sold it, cried me a river after price inflation, and recently picked up a master set and rise of the planeswalker set again.

I have an idea for the eldrazi scions. Maybe it can be applied to other units, but the scions seemed the most fitting:

Essence of [UNIT NAME]
When a [UNIT NAME] dies it leaves behind an egg. Cracking the egg and drinking the mystic [UNIT NAME] juice gives the hero/unique squad a temporary bonus (say +1 attack) for the rest of the round. A unit must be adjacent to gain the benifits from drinking the juice. A ranged attack can still destroy the egg.

Stats for the egg could be 1 life, 0 movement, 0 attack, 1 defence.

It gives the scions essentially 2 life. Not killing them leaves it open for the opponent to kill his own scions for a bonus attack.

Could also open up other synergies, where units gain other benifits by cracking eggs.

Might be posting some other ideas in the near future. Really like this thread!

Final disclaimer: I haven't read all the posts so it might be that a direction is already chosen. Either way, I liked to share my ideas :P

Hi BekerChief! First off I wanted to say welcome to the forums! Your experience is exactly the reason that many of us feel like the Arena of the Planeswalkers project is so important, and we’re happy to have you around :) Even if you haven’t read all the threads (and there’s a lot of them!) you might find this thread (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=55812) to be a helpful place to start as it provides some more information about the project as a whole and our plans moving forward.

Overall I really like your idea for the Scions. There have already been some ideas suggested, (including my own here Voidspawn Mindbreakers (Eldrazi Scions)

1 Life / 5 Move / 1 Range / 2 Attack / 6 Defense

Psychic Barrage Special Attack
Range 3. Attack 2
A Voidspawn Mindbreaker that moved but did not attack normally may use Psychic Barrage Special Attack. A Voidspawn Mindbreaker does not need clear line of sight to attack with Psionic Blast Special Attack, and it may target and attack non-adjacent figures while engaged. The defending figure rolls one less defense die for each other time it has been attacked by Psychic Barrage Special Attack this turn.) but I like the originality of your idea. I think there may be a couple challenges with the implementation (namely, it might have problems interacting with the Badru Wolves’ Pounce Special Attack, and designing unrestricted synergy is very tricky), but I found the egg idea pretty compelling. It inspired me to spin my own reinterpretation of the design:

Voidspawn Hatchling

Valkrill
Voidspawn / Uncommon Hero / ? / ?

2 Life / 5 Move / 3 Range / 3 Attack / 2 Defense

CARAPACE
When rolling defense dice, the most wounds a Voidspawn Hatchling may take for any attack is one.

EGG FORM
If there is at least one wound on this card, this Voidspawn Hatchling may not move or attack, and rolls five extra defense dice. At the end of each round, remove one wound marker from this card.

As an uncommon hero, I could potentially see these guys working as cheap filler units, being useful at tying down adjacent enemies and also fulfilling a role in cleanup.

Anyway, thanks again for dropping in, and if you have any questions about the project or feedback on units currently in design (especially once they reach the public feedback phase) we’d love to hear it!

BekerChief
October 23rd, 2020, 03:01 PM
Thanks for the warm welcome! I have read the introduction thread and am following some of the pods, mostly Arena, and Battle for Zendikar figures (the sets I own, last masterset is quite expensive in the Netherlands...)

I like your interpretation of the egg-form. The way you have written it, it makes more sense as a form of animal instinct for me, to curl up into a protective ball. Combined with naturally regenerative abilities of the voidspawn (making this up), they can quickly heal damage in their defensive stance. Naming the EGG FORM ability something like VOIDSPAWN RECOVERY?

Voidspawn Hatchling

Valkrill
Voidspawn / Uncommon Hero / ? / ?

2 Life / 5 Move / 3 Range / 3 Attack / 2 Defense

CARAPACE
When rolling defense dice, the most wounds a Voidspawn Hatchling may take for any attack is one.

EGG FORM
If there is at least one wound on this card, this Voidspawn Hatchling may not move or attack, and rolls five extra defense dice. At the end of each round, remove one wound marker from this card.


As another idea, aimed for Chandra's Phoenixes (fire birds), a take on Krug in squad-form:

MOLTENCLAW SCOUTS
Life 1
Move 6
Range 2
Attack 1
Defense 2

DOUBLE ATTACK

FEED THE FIRE
Each Moltenclaw scout gains +1 attack for each other Moltenclaw scout that died.

FLYING


Another take is to embrace a phoenix theme.

MOLTENCLAW SCOUTS
50 points? (cheap, high-risk-high-reward)
Life 1
Move 6
Range 2
Attack 3
Defense 2

UNRULY FLAMES
Before attacking, each Moltenclaw scout can choose to become ENFLAMED. When ENFLAMED, you may reroll any dice once. For each blank roll, choose an adjacent Moltenclaw scout (including itself). Then deal 1 damage to all chosen figures. ENFLAMED lasts until the end of the turn.

RISE FROM THE ASHES
When a Moltenclaw scout dies when ENFLAMED roll a d20. On a 10 or higher it rises from the ashes. Place it back on the board, on the tile where it died.

FLYING


Cheers, Kevin

NecroBlade
October 25th, 2020, 05:55 PM
Welcome, BekerChief , happy to see you're interested in the project!

For what it's worth, I'm personally not interested in doing non-Unique (including Uncommon) figures in this set. I don't want anyone to have to buy another whole set if they want to play more than the two (or three) of any figure we made Un/Common. And the fewer people who buy multiple sets, the more people who can get into Heroscape via AotV. That said, outside-the-box thinking is just what wee need for the space shrimp.

I very much like the idea of low-stat, short range Phoenixes, and hope we end up with that at least. I'm also curious if we can find a way to tie them in with Archmages, like we have been thinking of for Jace's Illusions, but that's for future designs. Feel free to help out in any way you like with the project, and maybe eventually join a Pod!