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NecroBlade
May 5th, 2019, 02:45 PM
Have you ever wanted to contribute to the future of Heroscape? How about the next Master Set? Astroking112 put forth a wonderful opportunity here (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=55709), and he along with several other Heroscapers (including myself, Pumpkin_King, flameslayer93, All Your Pie, and capsocrates) would like to lead the Heroscapers community in making it a reality. While not a C3V project, we aim to be as Valhalla Customs compatible as possible, to hopefully be as well-liked as those "official unofficial" units, and to maybe even submit units to the SoV down the road.

Here are our goals and what we're proposing:

Create a full and complete Master set, including units, glyphs, maps, and scenarios, that is fun to play both on its own and in conjunction with other Heroscape.
Design units for the AotP figures that are accessible to new players; units that are for the most part reasonably simple and do not rely on synergy outside of the set to be functional.
Maintain compatibility with both official Heroscape and VC releases to the best of our ability. While this project does not fall under the VC umbrella, it is our intent to create designs that can still be played seamlessly with C3V and SoV units.


There are as many as 24 viable units - prepainted Planeswalkers, translucent figures, and a handful of opaque figures - between the three Arena of the Planeswalkers sets. That's 1.5x the number of Heroes and Squads in the original Rise of the Valkyrie! Together we can create a new Master Set that would provide a cheap, available source of units for Heroscapers old and new to dive into the wonderful world of curated customs.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/567773382960218143/image0.jpg?width=889&height=453

huge thanks to LoveElemental for the pictures

The useable units will be split into groups of 4 known as Pods. Our team that has been brainstorming this project will group 4 of them with the 2 Glyphs that need Heroscape-compatible powers (Knowledge and Recall) and the cryptolith Destructible Objects into a special "Pod." We will design those in parallel with helping run the rest of the project.

The remaining 20 units are where you, the Heroscapers community, come in! We'll put up a poll of figures for you to vote on 4 to turn into "Pod A." You will then vote on 2 Project Leads (PL) from among a list of long-standing, high reputation Heroscapers to lead that Pod. Finally, we will take 5 volunteers to form a total of 7 "Pod A" members. The Heroscape community volunteers will be the backbone of designing and playtesting the unit. The elected PL are there to suggest the initial design ideas or directions for the units, then keep the process moving, stepping in as needed, and run any necessary votes.

Meanwhile, we will repeat this process to create a "Pod B", and so on, as long as there are enough volunteers from the community. There will be a total of five Pods (plus the special Pod that includes the Glyphs and DOs). How many Pods we get up and running at once depends on your participation!

Community members of each Pod can comment anywhere in the project, but are encouraged to focus on their Pod and let the PL keep their eyes on the other Pods and the project as a whole. Other members of the public are encouraged to help playtest, and can comment as well, but Pod members will have final say over their units. This will be a collaborative, public project, but we hope to let our teams do their best and only interrupt if necessary.

This Master Set is intended to be a stand-alone set. Synergy with existing units - official or VC - should not be the core of any design, but isn't ruled out if that direction makes sense for the unit.

Before we consider this project complete, and a true Master Set, we will also be designing maps and scenarios. We even have some ideas for the limited terrain pieces! Some maps and scenarios, though, will be designed with other terrain in mind to give players a starting point for mixing it up. First and foremost, however, we want everyone, whether they've been playing for years or if this is their first Heroscape purchase, to be able to jump right in and enjoy what this system has to offer!

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/567009548041453579/574011477661319188/image0.jpg?width=684&height=452

So, fellow Heroscapers, we need your help! Come join us on this community project to provide Heroscape with an exciting source of new units in Heroscape's newest Master Set!

[Note: Info on the sets used and the name of this project here (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=2278177&postcount=4), huge shoutout to flameslayer93 for the additional detail here (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=2281953&postcount=40).]
[Also note: All units will be classic (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=2278308&postcount=12) Heroscape (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=2278310&postcount=13), not MtG re-themes.]

Pod 0 Main thread (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=55795) (follow links to Pod 0 units).

flameslayer93
May 5th, 2019, 02:50 PM
:excited:

Pumpkin_King
May 5th, 2019, 02:55 PM
Posting because I approve. :up: !

Astroking112
May 5th, 2019, 03:06 PM
I'm glad that we've gotten this up! :D

As a quick clarification, we're proceeding with the name Arena of the Valkyrie (AotV) as a nod to both the original Rise of the Valkyrie Master Set and the Arena of the Planeswalkers sets that are being used for this endeavor.

In case anyone isn't aware, the names of these sets are Magic: The Gathering: Arena of the Planeswalkers, Battle for Zendikar, and Shadows Over Innistrad. All of the units that NecroBlade mentioned are dispersed throughout those three boxes, so if you're interested but don't have these figures, they're fairly easy to find!

Arch-vile
May 5th, 2019, 03:44 PM
Very exciting!

IAmBatman
May 5th, 2019, 03:53 PM
Cool stuff. Glad to see y’all taking this on. :up:

Ronin
May 5th, 2019, 04:13 PM
Awesome to see this getting off the ground! :up:

Cyber Controler
May 5th, 2019, 09:35 PM
I'm in! Time permitting I will be able to help play test some.

flameslayer93
May 5th, 2019, 10:06 PM
I'm in! Time permitting I will be able to help play test some.

We will super appreciate any volunteers and are already looking for anyone who is willing to chip in. :D

Skyver
May 5th, 2019, 10:20 PM
So from what I'm understanding, the intention behind this project is to make a Heroscape set using the AotP figures and components, but leaving out the Magic: the Gathering theme? The OP was a little unclear as to whether the MTG theme would remain or whether the heroes and squads would be renamed/rethemed.

If the set is completely rethemed, does this also mean that the Spell cards, etc. will be unused? I'm not saying it should be done one way or another, I'm just trying to gain a better understanding of the project. I believe the OP refers to a complete retheme, but I could see an MTG-themed Heroscape set working, similar to how the Underdark set was D&D themed.

Flash_19
May 5th, 2019, 10:26 PM
This sounds like an awesome project! I'm glad it's getting done. I hope to be able to help!

All Your Pie
May 5th, 2019, 10:29 PM
So from what I'm understanding, the intention behind this project is to make a Heroscape set using the AotP figures and components, but leaving out the Magic: the Gathering theme? The OP was a little unclear as to whether the MTG theme would remain or whether the heroes and squads would be renamed. If the set is completely rethemed, does this also mean that the Spell cards, etc. will be unused? I'm not saying it should be done one way or another, I'm just trying to gain a better understanding of the project.

All good questions. The intent is to entirely re-theme the project to fit within established Heroscape canon, including VC additions. As such, spell cards will not be used, and all figures designed will be separate entities from their MtG counterparts. Inspiration may be drawn for specific powers or mechanics, but Jace will not be Jace, Chandra will not be Chandra, ect.

Astroking112
May 5th, 2019, 10:33 PM
So from what I'm understanding, the intention behind this project is to make a Heroscape set using the AotP figures and components, but leaving out the Magic: the Gathering theme? The OP was a little unclear as to whether the MTG theme would remain or whether the heroes and squads would be renamed/rethemed.

If the set is completely rethemed, does this also mean that the Spell cards, etc. will be unused? I'm not saying it should be done one way or another, I'm just trying to gain a better understanding of the project. I believe the OP is in referring to a complete retheme, but I could see an MTG-themed Heroscape set, similar to how the Underdark set was D&D themed.

The plan is to go with a retheme instead of adapting established MTG lore. Everything from the cryptoliths to the sculpts is intended to be themed to better fit in with the HeroScape canon.

As a result (and also because we are not looking to add new rules to the game; we're just trying to create a great introduction for people to get into classic HeroScape and the customs community), the Spell cards and other Arena of the Planeswalkers-specific rules are not planned to be used.

Skyver
May 5th, 2019, 10:35 PM
Cool, thanks for the clarifications. I would prefer to have kept the MTG theme personally, but I understand the intention behind the project. think it's a good concept, especially for people who don't have access to the original Master sets and want to get into HeroScape.

Best of luck!

lefton4ya
May 6th, 2019, 12:40 PM
Excited for this. Yes the only new rules would be any special powers we come up with, Cryptolith rules (can be same as Magic:AotP (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/showimage.php?i=18571&original=1&c=11) or different) and possibly Quick-Sand rules (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=55708).

I would also be willing to contribute to card designs (Name, them, stats, powers, points). Maybe we can have some of our Louisville tournaments allow any WIP cards to playtest. I might be able to playtest at home games though, we'll see, but that would be the limiting factor in me really being able to assist.

Also personally I would love to see some of the units be common/uncommon, as the sets (especially first one which is $15 on Amazon/eBay (https://www.google.com/shopping/product/1292086444092753308/online?sa=X&prds=scoring:tp)) are so cheap comparably to other sources for Heroscape customs that 2 or 3 sets would not be that hard to do for most people. Maybe 1/3 of the heroes be uncommon and 1/2 the squads be common (more or all of these come from 1st set), but we will see how it shakes down.

Pumpkin_King
May 6th, 2019, 02:18 PM
Our current plan is to make most everything unique. I think there’s room for some uncommon/common heroes, but we don’t want to force people to buy multiple sets and have multiples of uniques just to get more commons.

flameslayer93
May 6th, 2019, 03:20 PM
The BtfU set sucked when you think about it, purchasing multiples of the box just for more crappy commons. Unlike a regular HS Master Set that you’d probably buy for extra terrain anyway, most folks probably won’t care enough about the meager amount of terrain in this box. Plus, the 4-man squad (Restless Zombies + Ghoul Vanguard) in the set uses figures from two boxes.

Dad_Scaper
May 6th, 2019, 05:41 PM
Excellent!

I hope I can contribute somehow. I'm excited to see this get off the ground.

NecroBlade
May 6th, 2019, 08:10 PM
We greatly appreciate the enthusiasm and the questions! I have updated the OP with a couple notes at the bottom linking to answers.

lefton4ya, we will not be making Un/Common units, as this should be an easy in for players old and new. However, we will need playtesters!

Leo Ultra
May 7th, 2019, 01:25 AM
Count me in for playtesting! Sometimes! Occasionally! I hope! And pray!

I have always wanted to see something be done with the 3D tiles. Glad to see that quicksand is on peoples' minds.
Are there any plans to make use of the cardboard mats and LOS blocker ruins?

Astroking112
May 7th, 2019, 01:30 AM
Count me in for playtesting! Sometimes! Occasionally! I hope! And pray!

I have always wanted to see something be done with the 3D tiles. Glad to see that quicksand is on peoples' minds.
Are there any plans to make use of the cardboard mats and LOS blocker ruins?

Yes to the cardboard mats for sure, and I believe yes to the cardboard ruins as well. The plan is to eventually offer a set of scenarios using just the Arena of the Valkyrie Master Set to fully recreate the standalone nature of Rise of the Valkyrie.

However, because full battlefields are such a great feature of HeroScape, we also intend to design some scenarios mixing the AotP tiles with classic HeroScape terrain. This should give people a sense of direction in building their collection further (along with more options for people with limited terrain counts), giving them plenty of options for getting further into the game.

NecroBlade
May 11th, 2019, 11:14 PM
Glad to have you, Leo Ultra!

Things continue to move forward with Pod 0 setting the example for a central thread (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=2280163#post2280163) and a unit thread (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=2280162#post2280162).

flameslayer93
May 12th, 2019, 03:02 AM
Count me in for playtesting! Sometimes! Occasionally! I hope! And pray!

I have always wanted to see something be done with the 3D tiles. Glad to see that quicksand is on peoples' minds.
Are there any plans to make use of the cardboard mats and LOS blocker ruins?

Yes to the cardboard mats for sure, and I believe yes to the cardboard ruins as well. The plan is to eventually offer a set of scenarios using just the Arena of the Valkyrie Master Set to fully recreate the standalone nature of Rise of the Valkyrie.

However, because full battlefields are such a great feature of HeroScape, we also intend to design some scenarios mixing the AotP tiles with classic HeroScape terrain. This should give people a sense of direction in building their collection further (along with more options for people with limited terrain counts), giving them plenty of options for getting further into the game.

Just now remembering to reply here, I’ve done some battlefield designs that I still need to fine tune and the AotP ruins are DEFINATELY being used, and will likely be used in some, if not all, of the battlefields with regular terrain as well. They can actually sit alright on normal hexes, and sit comfortably on water sized hexes.

And of course, if anyone wants to help design maps and scenarios please say so! I’m pretty much leading that charge anyways so as I get to it, I’ll probably make special threads/pod once the regular units are pretty well along to handle it. :mrgreen:

Astroking112
May 12th, 2019, 03:09 AM
That's good to hear about the ruins fitting in well on normal terrain. It certainly will open up more options for when we use sets like Swarm of the Marro, which don't have many line of sight blockers.

I intend to help on scenario design once a good number of the units are settled and we have an idea for what the overall story of the Master Set will be.

Captain Stupendous
May 12th, 2019, 04:13 PM
It's been fun to follow the discussion going on in the Eldrazi Ruiner thread! I was just wondering if you wanted to limit the discussion there to members of the pod (I can totally see the reasons for doing this) or whether non-pod members were welcome to make observations there as well.

flameslayer93
May 12th, 2019, 04:42 PM
It's been fun to follow the discussion going on in the Eldrazi Ruiner thread! I was just wondering if you wanted to limit the discussion there to members of the pod (I can totally see the reasons for doing this) or whether non-pod members were welcome to make observations there as well.

Non-pod members can contribute thoughts, but try to keep them limited. :)

Fortunately NecroBlade said he’s gonna start setting up the first normal pod soon, so everyone else can start working on units too! :D

NecroBlade
May 12th, 2019, 08:06 PM
Non-pod members can contribute thoughts, but try to keep them limited. :)
Correct, this is a public project so we want (and need) your participation. But there will be teams associated with each Pod who will have the final say in everything. Speak up if you have something really important for the Pod or Unit, otherwise get ready to volunteer to be part of a team! :)

Fortunately NecroBlade said he’s gonna start setting up the first normal pod soon, so everyone else can start working on units too! :D
Pod 0 is almost fully set up (main thread linked in OP here). Once that's done, we'll get to our first poll!

Dad_Scaper
May 17th, 2019, 11:27 AM
It is strange to me that this project would not focus on doing one box at a time, considering that the point was (as I understood it) to create a Master Set that a person could buy, already made.

NecroBlade
May 17th, 2019, 11:31 AM
It is strange to me that this project would not focus on doing one box at a time, considering that the point was (as I understood it) to create a Master Set that a person could buy, already made.

I understand the logic behind that and appreciate a couple of you mentioning it. However, the Pods will move along at their own pace, not necessarily being finished in the order units are voted on. At the end of the project, everything from each set will have a design, but some may have come earlier and some later. Sort of like how the C3V might announce a box of figures, but not necessarily release them all at the same time. :)

Scytale
May 17th, 2019, 11:44 AM
Quite a bold project you have running here. I would be willing to lend my assistance to the project. Most importantly I can help with quality control, as I have a great deal of experience with that in VC. I can also help with reviewing design ideas.

Dad_Scaper
May 17th, 2019, 11:46 AM
But there is an opportunity here to aim for something different from what the C3V does, and you are not doing it. By crossing over the one black squad, in fact, you are forcing the buyer to get two boxes, just to get one complete squad. I wish you hadn't done that.

I have no regrets about the C3V release model. It has its strengths; it has its weaknesses. But I thought this was going to be different, and focus on making it possible for people to buy complete master sets. My concern is not the model, which is (after a fashion) the C3V model (though committing to this many minis at once, which we would not do); my concern is how the model relates to this project's priorities.

You try to design everything at once, it will look like the C3V. Some designs will stall; some designing *teams* will stall. I don't see how this model makes it at all likely that a single AotP box will be a complete Master Set in the foreseeable future, and to my mind that was the most exciting thing about this project.

Here endeth my two pennies, offered from outside the Halls of Leadership. Carry on. :)

NecroBlade
May 17th, 2019, 11:48 AM
It was always one big Master Set, not three separate ones.

Dad_Scaper
May 17th, 2019, 11:53 AM
Ok. I made my vote, for my reason.

flameslayer93
May 17th, 2019, 11:56 AM
Ok. I made my vote, for my reason.

We appreciate the inputs DS! One important note about the second box (the smallest one) is that there isn’t any terrain in it. Can’t make a master set without terrain.

And as much variety as possible is another reason we grouped the three boxes together. A bunch of 3 man squads is fine, but if we could get a little more variety, we took the chance.

Please don’t hold that against the project. :)

Dad_Scaper
May 17th, 2019, 11:58 AM
It's ok. I can move on without being persuaded. :up:

lefton4ya
May 17th, 2019, 12:22 PM
I get the idea that the expectation is that people will buy one of each of the three sets, but the way I am thinking of it is this is more like if there was a terrain set and a wave of figure packs released at the same time - most people buy one of each but there are some sticklers that only buy one "pack" of figures because they like them and wait on the rest to see if they like them later. If all figures in a "pod" don't have to all be released at the same time as the "pods" are more for organizing designers and voting, then it doesn't really matter at all if pods are mixed. But if all figured in a "pod" are going to be released at once similarly to how C3V has been releasing "packs", then I would prefer if each pod came in the same Magic:AotP set. However, I am cool with combining Restless Zombies + Ghoul Vanguard, just as long as Pods with figures from each master set are already released (i.e. people hypothetically do not have to buy the SOI set just for 1 figure)

On a related note I have extra of each of the three sets - PM me if you want to buy but you can probably find most cheaper online shipped to you than me charging $10-15 plus my actual shipping.

flameslayer93
May 17th, 2019, 12:31 PM
We won’t be “releasing” them as the C3V “packs”. Technically every unit has to go through a SECOND round of testing purely with the units within the box. This is to make sure everyone plays together nicely, because it is one big set. After that (much quicker) testing is done, everything will be considered released at once.

Sure, things that are “done” with standard testing/design probably will be good to go, but they won’t be “released” until everything is ready to go. Odds are the scenarios will be in the same boat. We also are planning on creating a rulebook pdf to go with the MS.

Dad_Scaper
May 17th, 2019, 12:40 PM
We won’t be “releasing” them as the C3V “packs”. Technically every unit has to go through a SECOND round of testing purely with the units within the box. This is to make sure everyone plays together nicely, because it is one big set. After that (much quicker) testing is done, everything will be considered released at once.

Sure, things that are “done” with standard testing/design probably will be good to go, but they won’t be “released” until everything is ready to go. Odds are the scenarios will be in the same boat. We also are planning on creating a rulebook pdf to go with the MS.
Is this procedure written down somewhere? I'm not trying to be a bother, I'm just trying to understand what's going on here. Thanks!

flameslayer93
May 17th, 2019, 12:46 PM
We won’t be “releasing” them as the C3V “packs”. Technically every unit has to go through a SECOND round of testing purely with the units within the box. This is to make sure everyone plays together nicely, because it is one big set. After that (much quicker) testing is done, everything will be considered released at once.

Sure, things that are “done” with standard testing/design probably will be good to go, but they won’t be “released” until everything is ready to go. Odds are the scenarios will be in the same boat. We also are planning on creating a rulebook pdf to go with the MS.
Is this procedure written down somewhere? I'm not trying to be a bother, I'm just trying to understand what's going on here. Thanks!

You aren’t being a bother at all!

I *thought* it was in the OP here, but it may have been forgotten to lay out the exact idea. We had been brainstorming this project for a while already, so while the process we are going with is on Discord we made a mistake on ‘Scapers. I’ll see if we can’t lay everything out here shortly.

flameslayer93
May 17th, 2019, 02:02 PM
This Master Set (AotV) will combine contents of all 3 Mtg: AotP sets. While you can certainly enjoy most units right away out of the box, one of the squads will use figures from both the Master Set (Base) and Shadows over Innistrad (SoI) sets. The second, smaller, set Battle for Zendikar (BfZ) cannot be enjoyed alone as there is no terrain or game pieces in it, just miniatures. You will need to provide Order Markers or print the ones that we will be including the final pdf.

The full list of miniatures we will be using is here (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=2279161&postcount=2).

We may or may not be using the markers (Turn/Round Tracking Markers, Swords and Shield Markers, and the Charge Markers), from the sets. One of the Turn/Round Markers will be used for scenarios, as a Round Tracking Marker. SoI is the source of most of these markers.

All 6 Glyphs types (4 from the Base Set, and 2 from SoI) will be used for the Scenarios we are designing, however we will try to make sure they are fun and balanced enough for playing with them outside of this Master Set as well. They are black, instead of red, gold, or yellow.

The Cardboard Ruin Walls and the Crypoliths will be used as Line of Sight blockers, with the Crypoliths likely being Destructible Objects. Any specific rules or cards for these are still to be determined.

Scenarios using only the terrain pieces found in Standard Versions (not the Walmart Exclusive(s)) will be created. They will likely have terrain requirements that require both Base and SoI’s terrain. Different ways of using the Cardboard Sheets are still being tinkered with to ensure that Scenarios will be varied. Scenarios with terrain requirements from the other 3 Master Sets will also be designed (1 MS + AotV’s terrain will be the requirements).

All designs (Units, Glyphs, DO’s, Scenarios) will undergo 2 rounds of Playtesting. The first round will be General Playtesting, which will be where the majority of the testing will be. This is to test balance within the scope of the canon (both for Official and VC units). We will not be attempting to balance these units with Official Marvel, C3G, HoSS, HoF units (or any other project’s units). The second round of testing will be AotV-Inclusive testing. This testing will be much swifter, allowing only the units and glyphs within the Master Set to be used. This will ensure everything plays well together.

Finally, a fully printable rulebook will be made. This will likely be a pdf. A page with printable Order Markers will also be found in that pdf.

Several liberties were taken with this set, from unpainted figures to releasing it as one big Master Set.

The first liberty, using unpainted figures, was to create a bigger, better Master Set. Those units will have designs that make sense for their lack of paintjobs. We will release “prettier” versions of Army Cards with the figures having simple one-color paintjobs alongside the unpainted Army Cards. These units are aimed at improving the likelyhood that anyone who chooses to play the AotV set will have more units to play with.

The second, mixing figures from 2 AotP boxes to form 1 squad, was to improve diversity within the set. Traditional Heroscape’s strong suit is with its own diversity, whether that is in scenarios/units/battlefield customization. If sticking to only the original designs’s set ups, any potential player with only the AotV set would have missed the joy of a 4-man squad.

The third, only designing unique units, was to minimize the damage to a potential player’s bank account without damaging play experience. While the first 6 leads on the project may have had additional reasons, this reason is the one that is equally shared.

The fourth, to have the official release done all at once, instead of breaking it up between 3 different sets, was to maximize a player’s experience and still allow the designers the best chance at creating units they wanted to both create and play.

Maximizing play experience, while still being a completely standalone, approachable, set is the main goal of Arena of the Valkyrie.

flameslayer93
May 17th, 2019, 06:05 PM
Quite a bold project you have running here. I would be willing to lend my assistance to the project. Most importantly I can help with quality control, as I have a great deal of experience with that in VC. I can also help with reviewing design ideas.

In the rush that is life, I somehow missed this post. We’d be delighted to hear anything you’ve got to say Scytale!

Astroking112
May 17th, 2019, 06:20 PM
We may not have intentions to make the three boxes standalone from each other (all scenarios and designs are envisioned to be part of a single Master Set), but I can see the appeal of wanting to be able to just buy one box for a collection of units.

I don't think that it should be too difficult to create an alternate card for the Restless Zombies + Ghoul Vanguard four man squad using one of the other opaque black squad figures in the first box. The hitbox will be different, but that's something that I can live with, and it would be a nice option for everyone. That's the only case of one unit coming from more than one set to my knowledge, so it's worth the additional effort for anyone who would benefit.

flameslayer93
May 17th, 2019, 06:38 PM
We may not have intentions to make the three boxes standalone from each other (all scenarios and designs are envisioned to be part of a single Master Set), but I can see the appeal of wanting to be able to just buy one box for a collection of units.

I don't think that it should be too difficult to create an alternate card for the Restless Zombies + Ghoul Vanguard four man squad using one of the other opaque black squad figures in the first box. The hitbox will be different, but that's something that I can live with, and it would be a nice option for everyone. That's the only case of one unit coming from more than one set to my knowledge, so it's worth the additional effort for anyone who would benefit.

We can do that, but the Reavers (the other plain black minis) are already being used. Just a side note. :)

Astroking112
May 18th, 2019, 04:22 PM
We may not have intentions to make the three boxes standalone from each other (all scenarios and designs are envisioned to be part of a single Master Set), but I can see the appeal of wanting to be able to just buy one box for a collection of units.

I don't think that it should be too difficult to create an alternate card for the Restless Zombies + Ghoul Vanguard four man squad using one of the other opaque black squad figures in the first box. The hitbox will be different, but that's something that I can live with, and it would be a nice option for everyone. That's the only case of one unit coming from more than one set to my knowledge, so it's worth the additional effort for anyone who would benefit.

We can do that, but the Reavers (the other plain black minis) are already being used. Just a side note. :)

Ah, my mistake. I thought that the Blighted Reavers were the opaque squad that was deemed unsuitable. If we're using every black squad figure from the first box, then the only suitable proxy entirely from the same box would be using the Skirsdag Cultists + Ghoul Vanguard from Shadows Over Innistrad.

Jaur0n
May 21st, 2019, 04:31 PM
This is great news! I look forward to helping when there is something for the rest of us to do. (or point me in the right direction if I've missed what is already available to do).

flameslayer93
May 21st, 2019, 04:42 PM
This is great news! I look forward to helping when there is something for the rest of us to do. (or point me in the right direction if I've missed what is already available to do).

Vote on who you want to see in the first pod, and then be ready to volunteer to join it! https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=55805

Astroking112
June 20th, 2019, 01:10 AM
As Scytale noted over in the Lantern Geists thread (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=2289050#post2289050), we need to establish a clear editing gauntlet for units to go through before they can be approved. This shouldn't be a problem for most designs, but we want to ensure that rules issues or any ambiguity is avoided wherever possible. I'm pinging each Project Lead so they can see and contribute to this discussion. Of course, other people are still welcome to contribute as well.

All Your Pie
capsocrates
flameslayer93
Flash_19
NecroBlade
Pumpkin_King
Scytale

A VC checklist was mentioned over there. If we are able to use that to verify things, it'd be a big help, but I'll leave that matter up to the current VC members to discuss. If we cannot use the list, then we should be prepared to make our own, I feel, and display it clearly to all Volunteers to try and avoid problems as soon as possible.

Also in the name of catching errors sooner rather than later, I think that we should have at least the two PLs for a unit, if not the entire group, verify a unit before it can officially enter a playtesting phase. We want to avoid wasting playtesting time whenever possible, but I also don't want a fear of errors to completely steer people off of a particularly compelling idea. I feel like this is a decent compromise between the two directions, giving pods a decent working space while ensuring that nothing slips through the cracks.

Pumpkin_King
June 20th, 2019, 01:13 AM
Scy said he didn’t mind his list being used here. I’d be happy to do a first editing pass, should he choose to PM me said list. Or I could forward it to whoever is PL on whatever unit.

Scytale
June 20th, 2019, 02:53 AM
Scy said he didn’t mind his list being used here. I’d be happy to do a first editing pass, should he choose to PM me said list. Or I could forward it to whoever is PL on whatever unit.
I am quite experienced running designs through the checklist. I can do so here as well.

Pumpkin_King
June 20th, 2019, 07:54 PM
That would be wonderful if you could, Scy. We'll just have to decide when a unit is ready for it.

NecroBlade
June 21st, 2019, 09:28 AM
That would be wonderful if you could, Scy. We'll just have to decide when a unit is ready for it.

The checklist is a big help. In a similar fashion to C3V, we'll vote our way forward from design to editing to testing to art to finalization.

Astroking112
June 21st, 2019, 12:21 PM
Thanks for the offer and help, Scytale.

The checklist is a big help. In a similar fashion to C3V, we'll vote our way forward from design to editing to testing to art to finalization.

It would be useful to clearly establish those steps for people unfamiliar with C3V. Adding a clear multi-step process where everyone can see it would be healthy for the project.

This is how I understand that it'll proceed:

Design Phase:
Pod members contribute ideas and settle on a design. They then vote to have an Editing check.

We need to decide what percentage of the vote is needed for a unit to pass through the design phase.

Editing Phase:
The editing checklist is run for the unit, and any potential issues are identified and brought up. The pod must either resolve substantial issues and pass the Editing check, or return to the Design Phase if the issues are too deeply routed.

Testing Phase:
After the unit successfully passes the Editing checklist, it is opened for official playtesting. All pod members will run playtests for the unit (outside members are also encouraged to run playtests), prioritizing its individual balance.

I think that we should have a minimum number of required playtests here, with members voting after that threshold is reached whether they want to push the unit forward or continue testing for any uncertainties.

Second Testing Phase:
Similar to the first Testing Phase, this stage focuses on collecting playtests, but prioritizes the set as a whole. This would also be a good time to run scenarios from AotV once we have them, and to just generally ensure that the set is fun to play on its own.

I don't think that this needs to be as long as the main playtesting step, since we're not trying to ensure complete balance so much as our set feeling great together, but it's important nonetheless. It could still use a minimum threshold for playtests, with a vote to determine when a unit is ready.

Art Phase:
The final card is made. Any errors on the card are identified and removed.

Final Review:
This could be combined with the end of the second playtesting phase, since that's likely to involve all PLs anyway, but we should have a final vote from beyond the pod around a unit before it is finalized, looking at the unit on its own in addition to its place within the set. I think that this should be done before art is made for the card to avoid any potential time wastes, but it's unlikely that a design would fail at this stage anyway, and it would be nice to roll an art approval and final vote together to save time, so the two places are interchangeable.

NecroBlade
June 22nd, 2019, 12:34 PM
It would be useful to clearly establish those steps for people unfamiliar with C3V. Adding a clear multi-step process where everyone can see it would be healthy for the project.
Yes, Pumpkin_King please add the process to the welcome thread.


We need to decide what percentage of the vote is needed for a unit to pass through the design phase.

It was back in the Discord somewhere, but I think it was votes should pass with a majority (so 4 yea votes for 7 member Pods).


I think that we should have a minimum number of required playtests here, with members voting after that threshold is reached whether they want to push the unit forward or continue testing for any uncertainties.
I mentioned two dozen elsewhere. Don't think it was set in stone, though.

I don't think that this needs to be as long as the main playtesting step, since we're not trying to ensure complete balance so much as our set feeling great together, but it's important nonetheless. It could still use a minimum threshold for playtests, with a vote to determine when a unit is ready.
Agreed. There are a limited number of units in the set, so tests with as much variety as possible should do the trick, without necessarily having as large a minimum.


it would be nice to roll an art approval and final vote together to save time, so the two places are interchangeable.
Final Approval can go before Art not to waste Art's time, but Art still needs a vote just to make sure there aren't any "site" or "Solider" errors.

Pumpkin_King
June 22nd, 2019, 05:10 PM
Yessir. I’ll do that when I’m on desktop.