AotP Question Dump

[Dad_Scaper]

Here's a place for you to ask questions about the rules of Arena of the Planeswalkers: MtG. I won't be answering them, at least for the moment, because I don't actually *know* the rules. But somebody else will probably take a stab at it.

[Ninja Status]

Shouldn't there be a "Other Customizations & AotP Additions" section? I suspect some people will want to repaint the miniatures or customize the terrain in the future. Just a thought.

[elvenwizard9]

I have a quick question:

How many people jumped when they saw the new subforum? I did. :lol:

[chas]

Maybe you weren't following the Magic The Gathering Strategy Board Game discussion thread, which is now up to 82 pages. The need for this subforum is discussed at length and was implemented based on the discussion there. The thread was formerly in "Other Board Games." Clearly it was in a location that was too obscure for this hot topic.

[obfuscatedhippo]

Clarification question:

Planeswalkers are not creatures, right?

For example on Incinerate: "Deal 3 damage to target creature .. "


You cannot use Incinerate to damage an opponent's Planeswalker?

[vegietarian18]

I would assume you cannot use anything that says Creature can't be used on a Planeswalker just because Incinerate + Dual Casting + Overheat is an automatic instakill on all Planeswalkers if legal. Someone with an MtG background can probqbly confirm that Creature means it cannot target w planeswalker.

[Aldin]

Planeswalkers are NOT creatures (unless some abilty or effect makes them a creature).

~Aldin, creature featuringly

[Leotheanimal87]

Something my brother and I have been wondering, since you can play a spell card and summon before you move a planeswalker, does it matter which you do first?

[Ninja Status]

According to the rulebook, if your Planeswalker is on the battlefield, you must draw a card first.

[Aldin]

Something my brother and I have been wondering, since you can play a spell card and summon before you move a planeswalker, does it matter which you do first?

After drawing a card and selecting your Planeswalker for a turn and before moving that Planeswalker you can, in any order, summon up to two squads and play up to three spell cards. After moving the Planeswalker (and optionally attacking), you can play up to three spell cards, less any number you played before movement on this turn.

Here's a weird example:

As Liliana (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=51972), you have not summoned any squads. You draw a spell card and select Liliana for a turn. Before doing anything else, you play Killing Wave (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=52007), destroying the two annoying Rhox Veterans (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=51982) that were adjacent after Gideon (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=51970) summoned them last turn.

Next, returning the favor, you summon your Restless Zombies (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=51985) adjacent to Gideon.

Wanting to keep them safe from squads, you play Strangling Root (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=52016) on the Restless Zombies and move forward to attack Gideon from adjacent height.

With lousy luck, not only did Liliana miss Gideon, but his nasty counterattack inflicted a whopping 4 wounds!

Fortunately, she is adjacent to one of her Restless Zombies and plays her third and final spell card for the turn, Altar's Reach (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=52013), destroying a Zombie and recovering four life.

~Aldin, suboptimally for anything but exampleishness

[Targanth]

A comment on BGG about summoning squads has raised a question in my mind. Squads can be summoned to empty spaces within 5 spaces of the PW that in clear sight. Figures can not be summoned onto glyphs since they are not empty.

A height 4 PW would have clear sight to the top of a stack of terrain 1, 2, or 3 tiles high. A 4 height PW can not climb the side of a 4 high stack of tiles because of his height. Should a 4 high PW be able to summon a squad figure onto the top of a stack of terrain that is higher than their height?

If so, how much higher of a stack?

[quozl]

As high as they can see.

[designer]

A comment on BGG about summoning squads has raised a question in my mind. Squads can be summoned to empty spaces within 5 spaces of the PW that in clear sight. Figures can not be summoned onto glyphs since they are not empty.

A height 4 PW would have clear sight to the top of a stack of terrain 1, 2, or 3 tiles high. A 4 height PW can not climb the side of a 4 high stack of tiles because of his height. Should a 4 high PW be able to summon a squad figure onto the top of a stack of terrain that is higher than their height?

If so, how much higher of a stack?

I think it could, but only on the edge of a stack of terrain.

[designer]

I have few stupid questions which could be not so stupid.

1) Can Planeswalker summon only one figure from his squad reserve? Because, sometimes it looks like it will be smart move

eg. http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/3/8/8/7/korhookmasters.jpg or http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/3/8/8/7/blazingfirecats.jpg

Most of the time these ^ Units should be summoned by one unit from all squad to maximize benefit .
(eg. if you will summon one "Kor Hookmasters" (and something for defense) it will disable whole squad and after that you could attack with you Planeswalker. Next turn, you will make the same: summon one "Kor Hookmasters" and attack with your planes walker)

2) Could Planeswalker target a squad with spell card out of his range ? (eg.: could I target opponent squad using :
http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/3/8/8/7/cripplingblight.jpg

if opponent squad is for 15 spaces away? For me, there is no logic at all, especially if they are behind the wall or mountain)

[Targanth]

As high as they can see.

I guess that was my real question - just how high CAN they see? Must they be able to see the top of a tile to know that it is an empty tile?

My original thought was that if the tile stack was within 5 spaces and the player could see that there was nothing on the space, that would be a valid location. But should it be the sight of the player or the sight from the perspective of the figure?

[nate the dawg]

As high as they can see.

I guess that was my real question - just how high CAN they see? Must they be able to see the top of a tile to know that it is an empty tile?

My original thought was that if the tile stack was within 5 spaces and the player could see that there was nothing on the space, that would be a valid location. But should it be the sight of the player or the sight from the perspective of the figure?

Well, this sorta relates...

The only limit on how high (or low) Jotun can throw another figure is that he must have a clear line of sight on that figure where it lands. Battlements could be an issue in your example, but as long as Jotun can see the figure where it lands, it's okay.

Then again,

Summoned figures must be placed on empty spaces within 5 clear sight spaces of your Planeswalker.

I wonder if the rulebook should read, "Summoned figures must be placed on empty spaces and within 5 clear sight spaces of your Planeswalker." That would then jive with the previous example provided in Jotun's book.

[designer]

Does someone know how "sprint" works?

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/3/8/8/7/nissa.jpg http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p694/Ninjastatus1/aotpGREEN2_zpsniuhsfgl.jpg

Does "Sprint" cost additional for higher spaces or it is like teleportation (and at the end of your turn you may place your squad/Nissa on 6 hight mountain)?

[Aldin]

It should be a move of 3, so you would pay for height or stop in water.

~Aldin, moving on

[quozl]

You move like normal, like if you had a Move of 3.

[Dad_Scaper]

Ok, we played a game and enjoyed it. Stupid questions incoming:

What are the numbers (some say 10; one or more said 30) on the corner of spell cards *for*? I saw they have a name in the instruction book, but their function eludes me.

When placing a 2 space unit within 5 spaces of the PW, do both hexes have to be within 5 hexes? Or just one?

Can you resummon a dead squaddie as long as the whole squad isn't yet dead?

Can you summon something onto a glyph (I doubt it, because the space is not empty, but asking anyway)?

KidScaper played a sorcery that let him move and attack with one creature after he'd already finished attacking with his PW. I suppose that's ok, but it was annoying. So this is not technically a question. :)

[quozl]

The numbers are the point cost of the spell card, used when building decks.

Only one space needs to be within 5 hexes.

You can't resummon dead figures (unless a power says you can).

The space has to be empty so no glyphs.

It's not annoying - it's new strategy. :)

[Dad_Scaper]

Thanks, Q!

[designer]

I have few stupid questions which could be not so stupid.

1) Can Planeswalker summon only one figure from his squad reserve? Because, sometimes it looks like it will be smart move

eg. http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/3/8/8/7/korhookmasters.jpg or http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/3/8/8/7/blazingfirecats.jpg

Most of the time these ^ Units should be summoned by one unit from all squad to maximize benefit .
(eg. if you will summon one "Kor Hookmasters" (and something for defense) it will disable whole squad and after that you could attack with you Planeswalker. Next turn, you will make the same: summon one "Kor Hookmasters" and attack with your planes walker)

2) Could Planeswalker target a squad with spell card out of his range ? (eg.: could I target opponent squad using :
http://www.heroscapers.com/community/gallery/files/3/8/8/7/cripplingblight.jpg

if opponent squad is for 15 spaces away? For me, there is no logic at all, especially if they are behind the wall or mountain)

???

[quozl]

1) no

2) yes

[Major Q23]

1)Can I play an Enchantment card on a squad that hasn't been summoned yet?

2)The blue card "Unsummon" says "Return that squad to its owner's reserve", can that squad then be resummoned? If so, the same way that a normal creature is summoned?

[quozl]

1) There is nothing in the rules saying you can't.

2) Yes, you can only summon units in your reserve.

[Aldin]

1)Can I play an Enchantment card on a squad that hasn't been summoned yet?

1) There is nothing in the rules saying you can't.

Except for a question of whether an unsummoned squad is in play and thus available to be targeted. I would tend to look at both the HS and MtG rules and say that it is extremely unlikely that an Enchantment can be played on a card that it not yet summoned.

~Aldin, edgily

[jwsanner2]

The fact that the game has a distinct "reserve" zone where squads begin the game and go back to if Unsummoned (etc.) suggests to me that you probably can't interact with things in that zone in the same way as you can with squads on the board. How would Dark Harvest even work, for example?

[Dad_Scaper]

Makes sense to me. I wouldn't permit it in our home game, and I expect that the official ruling will be the same. No casting on non-existent squads. Can you imagine throwing spells on your *opponent's* non-existent squads? I don't think so.

[GaryLASQ]

Played our first game tonight. Didn't enjoy it as much as I hoped simply because of the strange wording on most of the spell cards. When the word "target" comes up, is that the same thing as saying the word "chosen"? As a Heroscape player, when I see "target" I immediately start thinking "in range" and "in line of sight". But after looking over all of the spell cards, some use "target" on cards as well as figures, and you certainly don't need "line of sight" on a card. :)

Take "Talent of the Telepath" for example. It says:
Play target sorcery from an opponent's graveyard. Then return that sorcery to its owner's graveyard.

You obviously don't target a sorcery spell card like you target a figure. So I guess the above could also be written like this:
Choose a sorcery spell card from an opponent's graveyard. Play that sorcery and then return the card to the opponent's graveyard.

However, take "Circle of Flame" for example. It says:
Deal 1 damage to target figure adjacent to a figure you control that has one or more damage markers.

I don't believe it means some figure within Chandra's range and line of sight. I assume it means it could be anywhere on the battlefield. The wording on this is so horrible, it needs a total rewrite. Maybe something like this:
Choose a figure that is adjacent to a figure you control with one or more damage markers on it. Deal 1 damage to the chosen figure.

If the word "target" is a term used in Magic that is synonymous with the word "choose" or "chosen", then I plan to get out a bunch of little post-its and reword most of these spell cards once I'm sure how each one of them works.

[jwsanner2]

Magic uses both "target" and "choose" with different rules and effects applying to each. Generally, a spell or effect that does something to a creature, player, etc. will require you to select your target when you announce the spell. The wording in Arena seems to reflect this.

Of note, some cards in Magic will use language "choose a creature... ." This is distinct from targeting. The distinction matters when abilities like Hexproof come into play. Hexproof is an ability that prevents the card having it from becoming the target of a spell or ability that is controlled by another player. Hexproof thus prevents a spell that requires selection of targets, but would not prevent that card from being "chosen" per the rules text of some other card.

This might sound odd, but it makes sense in the context of the game. The vast majority of spells use the "target" language; for example, the red spell Lightning Bolt reads "Lightning Bolt deals 3 damage to target creature or player." An example of a card that requires the player to choose rather than target would be the creature Clone, which asks the caster to "...Choose a creature card on the battlefield" that Clone will then become a copy of.

The use of different terms is not unintentional, but a concerted design decision that allows creation of spells that can circumvent targeting issues.

It is not surprising that they chose to mirror the language here, given that this is a Magic product, at least nominally.

So to address your last point, "target" and "choose" are not interchangeable terms in MtG, but are quite similar. I do agree that some of the cards could have been worded more carefully, even if they wanted to stay within the Magic rules structure. Misdirection is particularly vexing because it has some interactions that don't make sense from the card game rules point of view.

[chas]

jwsanner2,

Although I don't know MTG (and won't have my AotP game until next Thursday), I'm very glad for experienced players who can help us out here. So we have an extra resource to draw on when trying to figure things out, and that's very good! Thanks to you and all MTG players in the future for your input.

[GaryLASQ]

Magic uses both "target" and "choose" with different rules and effects applying to each. Generally, a spell or effect that does something to a creature, player, etc. will require you to select your target when you announce the spell. The wording in Arena seems to reflect this.Targeting in HS means something similar. Take the Nakita Agents' Smoke Powder ability for example:
When any Nakita Agent you control, or any figure you control that is adjacent to any Nakita Agent you control, is targeted for a normal attack from a non-adjacent opponent, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, all Nakita Agents you control, and all figures you control that are adjacent to those Nakita Agents, no longer have any visible hit zones for the duration of the targeting figure's hero's or squad's turn. (Bolding is my own wording based on a clarification in the HS FAQ.)
So we declare which figure is targeting (will be attacking) the non-adjacent opposing figure first, which gives the opponent the chance to counter the attack before any combat dice are rolled.

It sounds like in AotP, we have figures targeting other figures (HS style with checking range and line-of-sight), and spell cards targeting both figures and other cards. The BIG question is, by DEFAULT, does the attacking player's Planeswalker figure need to be in range of a figure being targeted by a spell card, when the card doesn't specify?

Take the "Corrupt" spell for example. It says:
Deal 1 damage to target creature within 5 clear sight spaces of a black Planeswalker you control. Remove 1 damage marker from the Planeswalker.
Here it specifies a range of 5 spaces, so no confusion.

However, going back to "Circle of Flame" which says,
Deal 1 damage to target figure adjacent to a figure you control that has one or more damage markers.
I assume it means Chandra does not need to be in range of this "target figure" that's about to get 1 damage; it could be anywhere on the battlefield, yes? If so, it should say:
Deal 1 damage to target figure, anywhere on the battlefield, that's adjacent to a figure you control with one or more damage markers.

One more question; above, you said "...will require you to select your target when you announce the spell". Do you always have to announce what the spell is/does? Or could I say something like "I'm targeting this card/figure" (Imagine my finger pointing at the target.) "of yours, with this spell card here in my hand." (Imagine my finger pointing at a card in my other hand without saying anything else about it.)

[quozl]

By default, a spell affects anywhere in play.

When you play a spell, you play it face-up so all can read it.

[Anitar]

1. Are there any double-spaced figures besides the Firecats?

2. Is there any rule against using creatures or spells that don't match your Planeswalker's Color?

[Ninja Status]

Anitar
1. No, not currently

2. The Rulebook says that Planeswalkers can only summon/cast spells and figures that have the same manna symbol and/or color.

[quozl]

2. The Rulebook says that Planeswalkers can only summon/cast spells and figures that have the same manna symbol and/or color.

or be an artifact army card. (page 14)

[Aldin]

This is a question and a comment. The first scenario map set up created a Line of Sight issue. When the two ruins are next to one another as shown on the set up, there is a slight gap between them such that the other side can be seen. The question is whether or not that is intentional.

In theory, it allows summoning on the other side of the ruins and ranged attacks through the gap. In practice, we found it was a huge disadvantage for non-ranged figures with no good way to get around the ruin and, looking at the set up instructions showing a solid line there, we ruled that there is no visibility through that gap. Has anyone ruled differently? How's that working?

~Aldin, eye sea ewe

[chas]

Interesting; the only constant table rule we use here in Scape is that you CAN't shoot between evergreen trees; a similar treatment.

[Confred]

I never liked ClassicScape's height-climb restriction. I feel if the figure has enough Move to move, he should be able to do it.

Did AotP trim this limitation, or did it adopt it?

[Aldin]

It adopts it.

~Aldin, spider-climbingly

[Confred]

Frown; thanks for the response Aldin. I'll be sure to adjust some of my customs

[bradtato]

I picked up a copy of this yesterday, after having read through the rules, I thought I had a pretty solid understanding. When I got to looking through the cards, I noticed that the Squads all have life totals of more than 1. How does one keep track of life totals per figure represented on the appropriate army card? Is there anything in the rulebook I may have missed that addresses this?

[quozl]

The rulebook screwed it up but you're supposed to put wound makers on the figure's base.

[Hogg]

Can I use "misdirection" to move a hidden enchantment that has been flipped?


With "call to heel" does the attacker lose their attack or does the Unsummon happen after the roll?

[Aldin]

My interpretation is that misdirection can move a hidden enchantment that has been flipped and that call to heel removes the attacker before the attack.

~Aldin, ready for the FAQ

[bradtato]

Nissa's Expedition: Does Nissa's Expedition effect her Sprint ability?

Dual Casting: Does the spell I cast as a result of casting Dual Casting count towards my 3-spell per turn limit?

Chandra's Outrage: If my opponent(s) only control Planeswalkers, can Chandra's Outrage still be cast?



In my opinion:

1: No, because Nissa's Sprint move value is a separate value from her natural move value. Think Ninjas of the Northern Wind with their disappearing act. It has a fixed value that is unchanged by modifiers, such as movement glyphs.

2: No, because if Dual Casting were cast ad my 3rd spell, its effect would have to be negated.

3: No, because Planeswalkers are not considered creatures, and with no creatures controlled by an opponent(s), there is no valid target. In the TCG, if I cast a spell which targets a creature, and that creature leaves play for whatever reason before my spell resolves, it's considered cast on an invalid target and it's effect is negated.


Thoughts from anyone else? These are just a few questions that came up during a 3-game cycle I played with a friend last night. I have a short background in M:tG, but we both are experienced Heroscape players.

[aquamaniac27]

Dual Casting: Does the spell I cast as a result of casting Dual Casting count towards my 3-spell per turn limit?

2: No, because if Dual Casting were cast ad my 3rd spell, its effect would have to be negated.


My response is, yes it does. It reads; "Play a red sorcery from your graveyard that you played this turn," not "copy a red sorcery." I can't think of any AotP card currently that copies a spell, but in Magic, casting (or playing) a card is not the same as copying a card or effect (a copied spell or ability immediately goes on "The Stack" and not cast). Granted, WotC could just be trying to avoid the concept of "The Stack" even though its how you resolve multiple instances.

Dual Casting specifically states you must play a sorcery from your graveyard that you played this turn.

But I don't have a rulebook in front of me to see if there's an FAQ.

[Confred]

I think playing Dual Casting plays a card from your graveyard.
It doesn't read, "Until the end of turn, you may cast red sorceries from your graveyard"
Or, "the next red spell you play may be cast from your graveyard this turn."

[bradtato]

Dual Casting: Does the spell I cast as a result of casting Dual Casting count towards my 3-spell per turn limit?

2: No, because if Dual Casting were cast ad my 3rd spell, its effect would have to be negated.


My response is, yes it does. It reads; "Play a red sorcery from your graveyard that you played this turn," not "copy a red sorcery." I can't think of any AotP card currently that copies a spell, but in Magic, casting (or playing) a card is not the same as copying a card or effect (a copied spell or ability immediately goes on "The Stack" and not cast). Granted, WotC could just be trying to avoid the concept of "The Stack" even though its how you resolve multiple instances.

Dual Casting specifically states you must play a sorcery from your graveyard that you played this turn.

But I don't have a rulebook in front of me to see if there's an FAQ.


That's the agreement that my opponent and I arrived at during the game that this situation presented itself, for the same reasons you listed ("play" vs. "copy"), but when I got to thinking about it afterwards, I thought it seemed a bit odd to have a card which, by its own rules, must be played as your second spell for that turn. Casting it as your first would leave you with no valid targets, and casting it third would use up your last spell for the turn, disallowing you to complete the instructions on the card. I feel like if the card was meant to be cast in a specific order, it would specify somehow. Magic is too careful when it comes to specificity ("play" vs "copy", "choose" vs "target" etc.), to leave something like that up to the imagination.

[aquamaniac27]

Dual Casting: Does the spell I cast as a result of casting Dual Casting count towards my 3-spell per turn limit?

2: No, because if Dual Casting were cast ad my 3rd spell, its effect would have to be negated.


My response is, yes it does. It reads; "Play a red sorcery from your graveyard that you played this turn," not "copy a red sorcery." I can't think of any AotP card currently that copies a spell, but in Magic, casting (or playing) a card is not the same as copying a card or effect (a copied spell or ability immediately goes on "The Stack" and not cast). Granted, WotC could just be trying to avoid the concept of "The Stack" even though its how you resolve multiple instances.

Dual Casting specifically states you must play a sorcery from your graveyard that you played this turn.

But I don't have a rulebook in front of me to see if there's an FAQ.


That's the agreement that my opponent and I arrived at during the game that this situation presented itself, for the same reasons you listed ("play" vs. "copy"), but when I got to thinking about it afterwards, I thought it seemed a bit odd to have a card which, by its own rules, must be played as your second spell for that turn. Casting it as your first would leave you with no valid targets, and casting it third would use up your last spell for the turn, disallowing you to complete the instructions on the card. I feel like if the card was meant to be cast in a specific order, it would specify somehow. Magic is too careful when it comes to specificity ("play" vs "copy", "choose" vs "target" etc.), to leave something like that up to the imagination.


Yeah I'm not sure at all. I'm about to go down and finish painting the squads, I'll check the rule book while its there in front of me.

Edit: Rule book has nothing specific on Dual Casting. I would say that the spell Dual Casting allows you to play DOES NOT count towards your turn max. We should get an official ruling on this.

[Confred]

It seems pretty clear that it doesn't count, and it seems pretty obvious that the intent is that it doesn't count.


Again, it doesn't read something like "The next spell you cast may be cast from your graveyard." It says, "Play a card" just like "Draw a card" doesn't take up your normal draw or "Summon a creature squad" doesn't count against your normal summoning action.

[quozl]

If you guys ask Hasbro customer service and report back with answers, I'll add it to the FAQ thread.

[bradtato]

If you guys ask Hasbro customer service and report back with answers, I'll add it to the FAQ thread.

I've contacted them via e-mail, and received a confirmation email stating to allow 48 hours for a response. I'll post an official response when I receive one.

[aquamaniac27]

It seems pretty clear that it doesn't count, and it seems pretty obvious that the intent is that it doesn't count.


Again, it doesn't read something like "The next spell you cast may be cast from your graveyard." It says, "Play a card" just like "Draw a card" doesn't take up your normal draw or "Summon a creature squad" doesn't count against your normal summoning action.


While it does seem obvious, vague wording is not a trademark of Magic. It just really threw me off.

[Hogg]

Once the restless zombies all die so you roll every turn or only if you activate the planeswalkers?

[Confred]

Hogg "At the start of the turn of a black Planeswalker you control"

[gamjuven]

Hey a question has come up regarding the firecats. When you summon them, the card says you may immediately attack with one. Can you play a spell or enchantment before the attack? This is very important when you consider the ability to play certain red enchantments that boost the cats' attack.

In the card game you would have lots of windows of opportunity to play enchantments and instants before a creature with haste would attack, but the wording on this makes me start to doubt it.

The rulebook doesn't have rules for stacking or technical order of things. You can both summon and play spells before phase 3.

[bradtato]

Hey a question has come up regarding the firecats. When you summon them, the card says you may immediately attack with one. Can you play a spell or enchantment before the attack? This is very important when you consider the ability to play certain red enchantments that boost the cats' attack.

In the card game you would have lots of windows of opportunity to play enchantments and instants before a creature with haste would attack, but the wording on this makes me start to doubt it.

The rulebook doesn't have rules for stacking or technical order of things. You can both summon and play spells before phase 3.


I would contest that because the Firecats' card says "immediately," you must attack with one before casting any spells on it. This attack is part of an ability, and so is not moving your turn to the attack step. You would summon, attack with one, and then cast spells, and then move onto your movement phase with your Planeswalker, then attack, then cast spells, then end your turn.

[aquamaniac27]

Hey a question has come up regarding the firecats. When you summon them, the card says you may immediately attack with one. Can you play a spell or enchantment before the attack? This is very important when you consider the ability to play certain red enchantments that boost the cats' attack.

In the card game you would have lots of windows of opportunity to play enchantments and instants before a creature with haste would attack, but the wording on this makes me start to doubt it.

The rulebook doesn't have rules for stacking or technical order of things. You can both summon and play spells before phase 3.


I would contest that because the Firecats' card says "immediately," you must attack with one before casting any spells on it. This attack is part of an ability, and so is not moving your turn to the attack step. You would summon, attack with one, and then cast spells, and then move onto your movement phase with your Planeswalker, then attack, then cast spells, then end your turn.

bradtato is correct. It seems like they want to minimize the amount of stacking in the game, which I approve of.

[bradtato]

I'm fine with minimal stacking for now, but when (if) the expansions start rolling out and the selection becomes wider, I'd like to see exactly how deep this game can dive...

[aquamaniac27]

I'm fine with minimal stacking for now, but when (if) the expansions start rolling out and the selection becomes wider, I'd like to see exactly how deep this game can dive...

Dangerous waters. One thing I love about Heroscape is that it is not Magic. When I need a break from the competitive Magic scene, I don't want to turn to Magic with Minifigs. It will be too tempting for WotC to just print off cards for spell decks since they're much cheaper than plastic figures.

[Confred]

I could see a red hidden enchant Planeswalker that flips when you summon and boosts the summon

[Hogg]

@Hogg (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/member.php?u=1030) "At the start of the turn of a black Planeswalker you control"

I was confused by what that meant. When you activate a black planeswalker card (phase 2,) or at the beginning of a player's turn if they are using a black planeswalker (before phase 1)? The rules only refer to players having turns, except once under Planeswalker Rules, when it says "Before action 3 of your planeswalker's turn, your planeswalker may summon..." Its not very explicit but it makes me think its only when you activate a black planeswalker army card.

[Colorcrayons]

I'm fine with minimal stacking for now, but when (if) the expansions start rolling out and the selection becomes wider, I'd like to see exactly how deep this game can dive...

Agreed. It has the potential to be lighter than MtG, yet still satisfy a few MtG cravings while pushing some dollies around.

I think if this game will have any legs at all, the stack will be required to be introduced in order for the spells to meld well and intelligently while still being true to MtG.

If instants ever make it in, there is no doubt about it's requirement.

But WotC need to set this stuff in stone in the rules first. Nobody wants to update a rulebook every year just to play the game. While I want this game to be deeper than it currently is, these things should be detailed in the rulebook already. :/

[Confred]

Stack will probably come into effect when multiple hidden enchantments flip

It would be cool to have Morph! A card that is a hidden enchantment that when flipped summons units.

[bradtato]

As I recall, the rulebook touches briefly on the stack, and as I recall, it works much the same as it does in the TCG. I think Hasbro is trying to avoid complications such as the stack to help achieve the target audience of ages 10+, where the TCG is ages 13+.

To keep on topic, another ruling question came up last night. I had Naturalize face-down on my Pummelroot Elementals, waiting for my opponent's Rhox Veterans with Honor of the Pure and one other stat-boosting enchantment. At what point is a figure considered attacked? When Naturalize gets flipped due to a figure in enchanted squad being attacked, and destroys the attacking squad's buffs, does the attacking figure keep the bonuses, or does Naturalize take effect before the attack takes place, as in the TCG?

[Hogg]

As I recall, the rulebook touches briefly on the stack, and as I recall, it works much the same as it does in the TCG. I think Hasbro is trying to avoid complications such as the stack to help achieve the target audience of ages 10+, where the TCG is ages 13+.

To keep on topic, another ruling question came up last night. I had Naturalize face-down on my Pummelroot Elementals, waiting for my opponent's Rhox Veterans with Honor of the Pure and one other stat-boosting enchantment. At what point is a figure considered attacked? When Naturalize gets flipped due to a figure in enchanted squad being attacked, and destroys the attacking squad's buffs, does the attacking figure keep the bonuses, or does Naturalize take effect before the attack takes place, as in the TCG?

It doesn't say specifically in the rules (because its not a good game and someone tacked a bunch of spell rules onto a simplified HS system) but I assume it works like smoke powder and the enchantment flips and its effects take place when the figure is targeted. All the enchantments should be removed before the attack roll.

[bradtato]

It doesn't say specifically in the rules (because its not a good game and someone tacked a bunch of spell rules onto a simplified HS system)


C'mon, that's not fair. There were just as many questions relating to obscure wording a decade ago when HeroScape first debuted...so what of a few very situational wording issues were overlooked, or not anticipated at all. A game can only be playtested but so thoroughly...


I assume it works like smoke powder and the enchantment flips and its effects take place when the figure is targeted. All the enchantments should be removed before the attack roll.

I think that's the intended result, but the wording seems to indicate differently. Perhaps I'll submit this one to Hasbro as well...

[b57123m]

So I picked up the game yesterday, we'll see if this scratches my Heroscape itch. I am hoping to clarify a few of the non-heroscape rules.

Firstly, would the unique squads (aotp) be comparable to Uncommon Heroes (hs) but now they can all move on the same turn?

Secondly, and this one I'm pretty sure of but I'll ask anyway. Can you use multiple enchantments on 1 army card?

Lastly, how does one track wounds on the squad figures with more than 1 life?

[Hogg]

It doesn't say specifically in the rules (because its not a good game and someone tacked a bunch of spell rules onto a simplified HS system)


C'mon, that's not fair. There were just as many questions relating to obscure wording a decade ago when HeroScape first debuted...so what of a few very situational wording issues were overlooked, or not anticipated at all. A game can only be playtested but so thoroughly...


Yeah, it is. This game feels like a badly done custom. There are more holes in the rules than HS. See my question about the poor wording on the Restless Zombies for an example.

So I picked up the game yesterday, we'll see if this scratches my Heroscape itch. I am hoping to clarify a few of the non-heroscape rules.

Firstly, would the unique squads (aotp) be comparable to Uncommon Heroes (hs) but now they can all move on the same turn?

Secondly, and this one I'm pretty sure of but I'll ask anyway. Can you use multiple enchantments on 1 army card?

Lastly, how does one track wounds on the squad figures with more than 1 life?

Unique squads are just like unique squads in HS.

You can put multiple enchantments on a army card, there's a section in the rules about the order they flip if hidden ones are triggered.

You put wound markers on the base of the figure.

[bradtato]

It doesn't say specifically in the rules (because its not a good game and someone tacked a bunch of spell rules onto a simplified HS system)


C'mon, that's not fair. There were just as many questions relating to obscure wording a decade ago when HeroScape first debuted...so what of a few very situational wording issues were overlooked, or not anticipated at all. A game can only be playtested but so thoroughly...


Yeah, it is. This game feels like a badly done custom. There are more holes in the rules than HS. See my question about the poor wording on the Restless Zombies for an example.

That's not a hole in the rules; that's clearly stated that you only roll at the start of your black Planeswalker's turn. A hole in the rules would be Taelord and his Stealth Flying. They didn't include the tidbit about leaving engagement attacks when flying to reflect that he had stealth flying, and everybody overlooked it and wondered why he cost so much.

[SantelliC0]

So am I correct in thinking Liliana can one-shot figures on her turn by attacking doing one wound and then using Snuff Out after?

[quozl]

Squad creatures, yes.

Also, if you're asking questions about a specific card, please ask it in that card's thread.

[SantelliC0]

yes I meant creatures I know it doesnt work on Planeswalkers thank you seems like she's very good I've only gotten to play 1 game so far though

[Hogg]

It doesn't say specifically in the rules (because its not a good game and someone tacked a bunch of spell rules onto a simplified HS system)


C'mon, that's not fair. There were just as many questions relating to obscure wording a decade ago when HeroScape first debuted...so what of a few very situational wording issues were overlooked, or not anticipated at all. A game can only be playtested but so thoroughly...


Yeah, it is. This game feels like a badly done custom. There are more holes in the rules than HS. See my question about the poor wording on the Restless Zombies for an example.

That's not a hole in the rules; that's clearly stated that you only roll at the start of your black Planeswalker's turn. A hole in the rules would be Taelord and his Stealth Flying. They didn't include the tidbit about leaving engagement attacks when flying to reflect that he had stealth flying, and everybody overlooked it and wondered why he cost so much.


What is a black planeswalker's turn? The rules only talk about players having turns, except one passing reference that does not seem definitive. And in the passage above it it says "You can only use Liliana's Snuff out ability on a turn in which you choose Liliana." Which supports players having turns, not units, and could easily be "You can only use Liliana's Snuff Out ability on Liliana's turn." if planeswalkers had clearly explained turns.

[bradtato]

It doesn't say specifically in the rules (because its not a good game and someone tacked a bunch of spell rules onto a simplified HS system)


C'mon, that's not fair. There were just as many questions relating to obscure wording a decade ago when HeroScape first debuted...so what of a few very situational wording issues were overlooked, or not anticipated at all. A game can only be playtested but so thoroughly...


Yeah, it is. This game feels like a badly done custom. There are more holes in the rules than HS. See my question about the poor wording on the Restless Zombies for an example.

That's not a hole in the rules; that's clearly stated that you only roll at the start of your black Planeswalker's turn. A hole in the rules would be Taelord and his Stealth Flying. They didn't include the tidbit about leaving engagement attacks when flying to reflect that he had stealth flying, and everybody overlooked it and wondered why he cost so much.


What is a black planeswalker's turn? The rules only talk about players having turns, except one passing reference that does not seem definitive. And in the passage above it it says "You can only use Liliana's Snuff out ability on a turn in which you choose Liliana." Which supports players having turns, not units, and could easily be "You can only use Liliana's Snuff Out ability on Liliana's turn." if planeswalkers had clearly explained turns.


A black Planeswalker's turn is a turn on which the player chooses a black Planeswalker to be the active unit.

It's not a hole, it's a rule left up to common sense. Bear in mind, this game is targeted at 10-year olds. The rules can only be but so specific before a 10-year old loses interest. That's what we as a community are here for.

If I could have had any influence on the ruling and wording, the turns would be structured similarly to in the TCG: Draw, Activate an army card, main phase 1 (cast spells, and if a Planeswalker was activated, summon creatures), move, attack, main phase 2 (see main phase 1), end phase. Instead of simply attacking, the attack phase would be declared, at which point, hidden enchantments that say "when a figure in enchanted squad is attacked" would be flipped and resolved, thereby eliminating the trouble in whether the attacker still gets their bonuses, and the cards would have a more careful wording. For example, the zombies in question should be worded "At the beginning of a turn on which a black Planeswalker is activated..." instead of "at the beginning of a black Planeswalker's turn..."

But then, it'd be almost like someone tacked some HeroScape rules to Magic: the Gathering.

[aquamaniac27]

What is a black planeswalker's turn? The rules only talk about players having turns, except one passing reference that does not seem definitive. And in the passage above it it says "You can only use Liliana's Snuff out ability on a turn in which you choose Liliana." Which supports players having turns, not units, and could easily be "You can only use Liliana's Snuff Out ability on Liliana's turn." if planeswalkers had clearly explained turns.

Action 2 of a turn is "Choose and army card," (pp. 6, rule book). On the following page (7) under "Planeswalker Rules," it states "Before action 3 of your Planwalker's turn." I assume that once you choose an army card, that army card's turn starts.

[Hogg]

It's not a hole, it's a rule left up to common sense. Bear in mind, this game is targeted at 10-year olds. The rules can only be but so specific before a 10-year old loses interest. That's what we as a community are here for.

The community is not here to do their job for them.


Action 2 of a turn is "Choose and army card," (pp. 6, rule book). On the following page (7) under "Planeswalker Rules," it states "Before action 3 of your Planwalker's turn." I assume that once you choose an army card, that army card's turn starts.

You shouldn't have to make assumptions about rules, they should be explained.

It just shows that they look at this as a casual game like Operation or Mousetrap, and not a serious hobby game like Magic. HS wasn't treated like a serious game either, and it did alright. But I predict this game will fizzle out and we will be seeing stacks of it on discount next year. Expansions may save it but the initial launch has been lackluster and must have been expensive. We will have a better idea around the holidays and it will be interesting to see if retailers sell out and restock.

[quozl]

I just wanted to remind everyone this is a thread for questions about the rules, not complaints.

[gamjuven]

Okay so I reached out to Hasbro regarding this issue:
Customer By CSS Web (gamjuven) (08/15/2015 09:58 AM)
Hello, I was wondering if you could clarify this issue. I was wondering if you can summon the Blazing Firecats, play an enchantment on them, and THEN resolve your haste attack with one of the firecats? The wording on the card is saying you may immediately attack with one of your firecats so I'm not sure. The rulebook doesn't really go into stacking or timing like the card game does. You can both summon units and play spells before phase 3 so I don't really know what it should technically be. Thanks!

This was the response:
"Hi gamjuven,

Thank you for contacting Hasbro, Inc.

I am pleased to reply but regret to advise that the information you have requested is not readily available in regards to the Arena of the Planeswalker Game.

I am sharing your question with those internal parties who are more familiar with this piece of our business. I will respond to you, as soon as I receive the information from them.

gamjuven, thank you in advance for your patience.

Kind regards"

Well I thought you guys made it pretty obvious but now I'm not so sure, lol. I guess we'll see what the ruling is.

[bradtato]

I just received a similar response in regards to my question about Dual Casting:



Hi Bradley,

Thank you for contacting Hasbro, Inc.

I am sharing your question with those internal parties who are more familiar with the Magic: Arena of the Planeswalker. I will respond to you, as soon as I receive the information from them.

Bradley, thank you in advance for your patience.


Kind regards

[Colorcrayons]

I take those responses to mean that they are forwarding those questions to people who understand the game, instead of being answered by your average customer service phone monkey.

Which, is a very good thing.

[aquamaniac27]

I take those responses to mean that they are forwarding those questions to people who understand the game, instead of being answered by your average customer service phone monkey.

Which, is a very good thing.

Having asked many question regarding MTG, I can confirm these are should actually be sent to the proper people within WotC offices. While response times tend to vary, I've always gotten the answer I was looking for, if not the one I wanted.

We should start a sticked FAQ thread when these answers start rolling in.

Edit: My bad, I see that we have one. Just make sure we get them posted!

[Colorcrayons]

Yet, the proper avenue to get official responses derive from Hasbro, at least according to Ethan Fleischer, one of the designers.

[chas]

;) Now that I've solitaired the game in all three formats/maps (for a total of five games) and also played five face to face duels, its time to try and nail down some concepts and rules. As others have commented, while the Scape rules modules are tight, the MTG sections leave much unsaid. I'm only asking questions here that I'm not sure about; others we have successfully decided/inferred how to play. Here we go...my own proposed answers are in parentheses.

1. Can army card abilities be used on a turn in addition to a 'regular' die attack? Does this include army card abilities which do damage like attacks?

"Each figure can attack only once... Some figures have abilities that allow them to attack more than once." (How To Attack p. 7). Since this game does not use Special Attacks, I'd guess yes. An example would be Liliana Snuff Out. (Yes).

2. Here I'm going to bundle several questions and specific card references in search of a missing general rule on Spell Card use.

Can spell cards of one color be assigned to army cards of another?

In the case of harmful effects, the answer is clearly yes, as they are meant to be played on other players, including other Planeswalkers (PWs). An example would be Lilliana's Crippling Blight. But...

A) Can those of beneficial effects bonus up other color/mana army cards for another player? (Yes).

B) What about team games--can you play cards on your ally to aid them for beneficial effect? (Yes).

C) Can Misdirection (Blue) be played to reassign a card of a different color? Can it be played on another player? Could, say, it move a green spell card assigned to a green army card onto a target white army card? (Yes and yes).

D) For Blue's Talent of the Telepath, when you actually play another player's/color's card, can it affect any target, including its original owner? (Yes).

In general, it seems that anything goes, except for cards which specify a user's, card's, or target's color, such that it can't be played by you if you are not of that color. (Red's cards are particularly protected this way in general). So the missing general rule might go something like this:

Any Spell Card played by another color Planeswalker has its original effect against any color target, including its own. This is not allowed if a specific color is required for its use other than that of the player using it.

3. Can you play an Enchantment on a squad not yet summoned? This is a controversy on boardgamegeek, where some say yes and some no. (I'd say no).

4. Can you cast spells during Step 1 of the Turn, even if later you do not choose your Planeswalker as your army card to be activated? (Yes; otherwise why is this step included?)

5. Can you cast spells during Turn Actions 3 and 6 if you have not previously selected your Planeswalker as your activated army card this turn? (No)?

These last two could be ruled as follows under such a missing general rule such as: During Turn Action 1 you may use any Spell Card, but after you have chosen your activated card for that turn, then in Turn Actions 3 and 6 you may only use Spell Cards if you have previously chosen your Planeswalker that turn during Action 2.

6. Can Restless Zombies attempt to return to the board from your Graveyard if the Black Plainswalker player has lost his Planeswalker?

(No. Because the RZ Army Card here is worded "At the start of the tun of a black Planeswalker you control").

Note that a Flamewing Phoenix could likewise not return after the Red PW is killed, as no Sorcery card could be discarded. Or could it? Without you PW you can't play one, but since the rules don't tell you technically to discard your remaining spell cards after your PW is killed, can you discard one that had already been drawn into your hand? (No).

7. Are wounds kept on your creatures if they are sent off the table?

(Yes, if sent back to your Reserve, no if sent to your Graveyard).

8. Are assigned Enchant Squad Spell Cards treated the same? (Yes).

9. The Red Circle of Flame card reads "Deal 1 damage to target figure adjacent to a figure you control that has one or more damage markers. Who must be previously damaged, your target or your figure? (Your figure;otherwise it would have been written differently).

[Hogg]

7. Are wounds kept on your creatures if they are sent off the table?

(Yes, if sent back to your Reserve, no if sent to your Graveyard).

Page 13 of the rulebook says wounds are removed when unique squad creatures are returned to the reserve.

I think that may ask more questions than it answers though. What about anything that's not a unique squad? The expansions are going to have to come with more rules that cover that kind of thing. Its weird that so much would be overlooked in the rules of a game that's a spinoff of Magic, which basically taught me to be a rules lawyer.

[Confred]

Magic, which basically taught me to be a rules lawyer.
QFT! (Quoted for truth)

[GaryLASQ]

5. Can you cast spells during Turn Actions 3 and 6 if you have not previously selected your Planeswalker as your activated army card this turn? (No)?I say Yes.

I don't see anywhere in the rules that says you can't play a spell card(s) after Step 2 if you didn't choose your Planeswalker army card. On page 7, under "Planeswalker Rules" it says:
If your Planeswalker is destroyed, you cannot play or draw spell cards.

So if you activate a creature army card, you can still cast spells before you start moving the figure(s), and/or after you finish attaking with the figure(s), of the chosen army card, as long as your Planeswalker is still on the battlefield.

[Confred]

I imagine the turn order works in three blocks, really two blocks where one is split.
Magic
Heroscape
Magic
=
Draw and play spells
Activate figure, move, attack
Play spells, discard down to 7 cards

[GaryLASQ]

I imagine the turn order works in three blocks, really two blocks where one is split.
Magic
Heroscape
Magic
=
Draw and play spells
Activate figure, move, attack
Play spells, discard down to 7 cards
I've been playing spells like this:

1) Draw a spell card (if your draw pile is not empty and your Planeswalker is on the battlefield), then play spell(s)*.

2) Choose an army card, then summon up to 2 creature army cards if Planeswalker was chosen, then play spell(s)*. (Playing spells here is helpful for something freshly summoned, since I don't think it's allowed to play spells on any army cards still in reserve.)

3) Move figure(s) on your army card. (optional)

4) Attack with figure(s) on your army card (optional), then play spell(s)*, then bring hand of spell cards down to 7 if holding more than 7.

5) Move the turn marker on the turn track to the next number.

* Limit of 3 spells per turn.

And remember, if your Planeswalker dies during your turn, and the victory condition is something other than a dead Planeswalker, then you can't play any more spell cards for the remainder of that turn and future turns. Only your untriggered hidden spell cards can still be played when triggered, from that point forward.

Also, you can think of Summoning as an additional ability printed on every Planeswalker army card, but to save space on their cards, it's in the rulebook (similar to Super Strength in Marvelscape).

[Confred]

Hidden Enchantments: Is flipping a must if conditions are met?

[quozl]

Yes. The rules go on to say that if you snooze and don't flip it over when it's triggered, you miss out.

[aquamaniac27]

Hidden Enchantments: Is flipping a must if conditions are met?

Yes. The rules go on to say that if you snooze and don't flip it over when it's triggered, you miss out.

Quozl is correct. You must flip over hidden enchants when they trigger. If you miss the trigger, you lose the enchantment entirely so it cannot be abused as an "if" trigger.

[gamjuven]

If you guys remember I had asked hasbro about the blazing firecats and if you could play an enchantment before having to attack with the hasted cat and they originally said they couldn't answer and that they'd forward the question onto people that would know. Well I finally got an answer 9 days later:


Response By Email (Jenn) (08/27/2015 08:11 AM)
Hi gamjuven,

Thank you for contacting Hasbro, Inc., in regards to the Arena of the Planeswalker Game.

I am pleased to reply but regret to advise that the information you have requested is not readily available.

I am sharing your question with those internal parties who are more familiar with this piece of our business. I will respond to you, as soon as I receive the information from them.

Brad, thank you in advance for your patience.

Kind regards"

Well so much for that :(. I thought it would have been a fairly easy question to answer.

[1Mmirg]

Sounds like CVN is busy and there isn't yet someone like theGuru working there on AotP. At least they aren't just making things up and giving half-answers.

This implies, to me, that they are looking to centralize AotP answers and do them right (even if a bit slow, initially).

[gamjuven]

Sounds like CVN is busy and there isn't yet someone like theGuru working there on AotP. At least they aren't just making things up and giving half-answers.

This implies, to me, that they are looking to centralize AotP answers and do them right (even if a bit slow, initially).

One can only hope. Maybe they are stalling to wait until after Pax Prime when the expansion news is released.

[Confred]

I would say no to casting spells between the segments of a power.
Plenty of powers would work without the use of the word "immediately". This word isn't wasted space on those powers, it really means immediately.
I feel the same about Haste.

[gamjuven]

Here we go, official ruling. Looks like you guys were correct:

Hi Brad,

Thank you for your patience while I researched your questions for you. Please see the answers below:

Can you summon the Blazing Firecats, play an enchantment on them, and then resolve your haste attack with one of the firecats?

When you summon Blazing Firecats you must immediately attack with one of the Firecats if you want to. You cannot summon the Firecats, then play spells, and then attack with using the haste ability.


I hope this helps! Please contact us back if we can be of further assistance.

[gamjuven]

I have a question regarding Leaf Arrow, the green enchantment. It says "enchanted planeswalker gets +1 power as long as it is unengaged. Before enchanted Planeswalker attacks, you may destroy leaf arrow. If you do, enchanted Planeswalker gets +2 power until end of turn"

A rule-lawyer friend of mine interpreted it this way: You can enchant a planeswalker to give him +1 power as long as he is unengaged. However, if you discard it, the planeswalker gets a flat +2 power and the engagement thing is not necessary. I hadn't thought about that before but the card is ambiguous.

Thoughts?

[aquamaniac27]

I have a question regarding Leaf Arrow, the green enchantment. It says "enchanted planeswalker gets +1 power as long as it is unengaged. Before enchanted Planeswalker attacks, you may destroy leaf arrow. If you do, enchanted Planeswalker gets +2 power until end of turn"

A rule-lawyer friend of mine interpreted it this way: You can enchant a planeswalker to give him +1 power as long as he is unengaged. However, if you discard it, the planeswalker gets a flat +2 power and the engagement thing is not necessary. I hadn't thought about that before but the card is ambiguous.

Thoughts?

I would have to agree with your friend. This is how Magic usually works. My only hesitation is that the AotP rules are a nightmare when it comes to being specific.

[chas]

I also agree, and don't know how else you would interpret it.

[Hogg]

Yeah, the +2 part doesn't mention engagement so I think you can use it even when engaged.

[Confred]

Yeah that's how I interpreted it. She gets a ranged attack bonus, but if you get in close, she can blow it for a one-shot +2.
The card doesn't say anything about using the one-shot power only if she isn't engaged.

[bradtato]

I, too, received an official ruling in regards to Dual Casting:

Response By Email (Mike) (09/03/2015 01:52 PM)
Hi Bradley,

Thank you for your patience while we researched your game play question.

I'm pleased to reply. When using the the red spell Dual Casting, the played card does count towards the 3 spell per turn limit. Here’s an example:

You play Incinerate.
You play Dual Casting.
You select Incinerate to play again.
You have played 3 spells and cannot play another spell this turn.

Again, I'd like to thank you for taking the time to reach out to us.

I hope you have a fun day!

Kind regards,

[Confred]

Ooh wow bradtato
Certainly changes things

[Kajoq]

Question with the Mind Control effects, both Jace's and the Sorcery.

How have people been handling Disengagement Rolls when under Mind Control? I had a couple of situations arise last night where I could mind control an enemy figure and force it to disengage 3-4 times before attacking.

Thoughts?

[bradtato]

Question with the Mind Control effects, both Jace's and the Sorcery.

How have people been handling Disengagement Rolls when under Mind Control? I had a couple of situations arise last night where I could mind control an enemy figure and force it to disengage 3-4 times before attacking.

Thoughts?

I've only had that situation arise once, and we played that while a creature was being controlled due to a mind control ability, the figures it disengages from are the same figures that it'd be disengaging from as though it were your own creature from the beginning (I.e not your own creatures, as it would be if the original controller had disengaged).

[quozl]

Right. If you control it, only your opponents' creatures could roll leaving engagement attacks against it. And those are optional.

[Kajoq]

Right. If you control it, only your opponents' creatures could roll leaving engagement attacks against it. And those are optional.

With Jace's it does word it 'You control that planeswalker'

With Mind Control it's worded 'You may move and attack with Target Squad Creature an opponent controls'
I believe with Mind Control at least they would have to disengage from MY units.

With Jace's ability you may be correct

[Confred]

The disengagement issue came up with Marcu.
Since you control it for that moment, your figures cannot attack it with leaving engagement attacks and leaving engagement attacks are voluntary so the original controller now enemy may choose not to attack also

[starman54]

I may have posted this in the wrong place - I can't see how to delete it from the Official Rules and Faq section.
It probably should be posted here.
Spells and end of Turn.

It looks like they developed the spell cards before they decided that instead of having each player have a "round" per game turn, they would have each player end a game turn and advance the Turn marker.

or some similar mess up in development.

This is why the Spells with end of turn conditions often don't make sense e.g. Inspired Charge , the defence bonus is useless. However if the same spells last until the begining of your next turn and are then discarded to the graveyard they all seem to work.

So I propose on spell cards the End of Turn condition ,means they last from when played or revealed(hidden enchantments) to the start of your next turn.

The first action of each Turn should be to discard to your graveyard any spells that last until the end of your turn.

Hopefully someone can take this up with the designer.

[starman54]

I picked up a copy of this yesterday, after having read through the rules, I thought I had a pretty solid understanding. When I got to looking through the cards, I noticed that the Squads all have life totals of more than 1. How does one keep track of life totals per figure represented on the appropriate army card? Is there anything in the rulebook I may have missed that addresses this?
Each figure is a unique sculpt so you could put them on their outline figure.

Serioulsy though , put them on the figures base.

[Hogg]

I picked up a copy of this yesterday, after having read through the rules, I thought I had a pretty solid understanding. When I got to looking through the cards, I noticed that the Squads all have life totals of more than 1. How does one keep track of life totals per figure represented on the appropriate army card? Is there anything in the rulebook I may have missed that addresses this?
Each figure is a unique sculpt so you could put them on their outline figure.

Serioulsy though , put them on the figures base.

You're supposed to put the wound markers on the figure's base.

[Kajoq]

This may be the perfect opportunity for me to use some of my 5mm D6s I got at dragon con a couple years ago! It was $3 for 175 of them.

Scale Comparison:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Fel6CMVEL._AC_UL160_SR160,160_.jpg

[Confred]

Great deal that was

I'm thinking since we're already putting wound markers, would there be room for +1/+1 counters?

[lefton4ya]

Questions on two green spell cards:

Titanic Growth:
Played and had a question. Does the "within 6 spaces..." have to be counted when you played the card, at the beginning of the turn of the creature, when you attacking, or at all times?

If I am more than 6 spaces away from of the Planswalker away and I play the card before move, and then move to within 6 spaces of the Planswalker, do I get the bonus?
If I am within 6 spaces away of the Planswalker and I play the card before move, and then move to more than 6 spaces away from the Planswalker, do I get the bonus?

I am assuming the second question is true because of the "until end of turn" but there is nothing in the wording that says one way or the other when it triggers. If no on the first, it would have been nice if the card said "Before moving..." or "After selecting a creature..."
Leaf Arrow:
Played and had a questions. Basically is the second part of the power contingent on the first? It is not clear, as the wording makes me think the enchantment is actually two different powers, but not sure how to interpret.

Enchanted Planeswalker gets +1 attack as long as it is unengaged.
Before enchanted Planeswalker attacks, you may destroy Leaf Arrow. If you do, Enchanted Planeswalker gets +2 attack until end of turn.

If I am unengaged and I choose to destroy Leaf Arrow, do I get +2 or +3. I.E. do the powers stack or is it just one or the other?
If I am engaged, can I still destroy and get the +2 attack?

[Cavalier]

My Takes:
•Leaf Arrow
You can enchant your PW with Leaf Arrow and receive an ongoing +1 to ranged attacks.

On any turn after your PW has been enchanted with Leaf Arrow, you may choose to "destroy" (discard) it and gain a 1 time +2 attack.

The powers are separate and do not stack.

•Titanic Growth
I interpret it as:

1. When the caster casts the figure has to be within 6 CSS
and
2. when the figure is attacking, it has to be within 6 CSS of the caster

So I would think both criteria have to be met.

[lefton4ya]

Ok, I see how Leaf Arrow works, thanks Cav and the others who responed a few posts back to gamjuven (didn't see his question earlier). The "Before enchanted Planeswalker attacks, you may destroy Leaf Arrow. If you do..." means since you destroyed the enchantment, you no longer get the first part, but that also means you get the second part regardless of the contingency on the enhancement. I guess you magic players have the element of experience in those cards.

I still don't necessarily agree on Cavalier interpretation of Titanic Growth, especially on the second part of "when the figure is attacking, it has to be within 6 CSS of the caster" as the card specifically says "until end of turn" but I would like some more opinions. Maybe i or someone can ask Hasbro.

Also noticed Inspired Charge basically has the same question.

[quozl]

Yep, I think it just needs to be within 6 spaces when the spell is cast.

[Cavalier]

Yep, I think it just needs to be within 6 spaces when the spell is cast.
I can live with that interpretation

[jwsanner2]

If it is consistent with MtG, the 6 spaces restriction would be a targeting restriction only. For example, a spell that said "Target creature you control gets +1/+1 until end of turn" would still get +1/+1 even if the opponent somehow took control of it after that spell resolved.

If it was meant to be a dual restriction, it would be phrased "Target creature you control gets +1/+1 until end of turn as long as that creature is under your control."

[Confred]

Has it been a common play experience for teams to draw up their decks completely? 1v1?

[TREX]

Has it been a common play experience for teams to draw up their decks completely? 1v1?
We use up just about all of our cards 75% of the time at my place. It really depends how aggressive you play, and how well you draw the right cards at the right time.:)

[chas]

Yes, I would say we usually do use up our spell card decks during a game.

[Hogg]

I have not had a game last that long but I've only played a couple of times.

[1Mmirg]

Yes, I would say we usually do use up our spell card decks during a game.

Yes, we do as well.

Every once in a while we play a game where we have an unexpected early end, but usually the game ends a few rounds after the deck goes dry.

[Confred]

I played with Magic players last night and none of them had ever played a miniatures wargame outside say, Risk.
They picked it up easy.

We were playing along like Magic:
Upkeep
Draw
Precombat Main
Combat/activate
Postcombat Main
Discard

About halfway through the game I realized I had forgotten an important Heroscape element: Initiative!
So halfway through we started rolling and boy!, what a change that made! Talk about disruption.

[quozl]

The only time initiative is rolled in this game is at the start. When did you roll initiative? After everyone took a turn?

[GaryLASQ]

The word "initiative" does not even exist in the rulebook.

[Confred]

We rolled it after every round. So after everybody took their turns, initiative was rolled and it went clockwise from the highest roll.

[TREX]

From my understanding that does not exist in this game except at the beginning of the game.

[wriggz]

Can Liliana attack after using Snuff out?

[GaryLASQ]

Snuff Out does not say "instead of attacking", so that must mean, yes she can also attack.

The one thing that is not clear to me is timing. Since there are no timing restrictions with this ability, I would say she can use it at anytime after her army card has been chosen; before moving, after moving and before attacking or after attacking. However, could you do something like choose her army card, do Snuff Out first, then play a spell card(s) and/or summon, then move (action 3)?? Or finish attacking (action 4), then play a spell card(s), then do a Snuff out, then end turn?? Looking closely at the rules makes it seem like all of the above timings are acceptable.

[TREX]

Snuff Out does not say "instead of attacking", so that must mean, yes she can also attack.

The one thing that is not clear to me is timing. Since there are no timing restrictions with this ability, I would say she can use it at anytime after her army card has been chosen; before moving, after moving and before attacking or after attacking. However, could you do something like choose her army card, do Snuff Out first, then play a spell card(s) and/or summon, then move (action 3)?? Or finish attacking (action 4), then play a spell card(s), then do a Snuff out, then end turn?? Looking closely at the rules makes it seem like all of the above timings are acceptable.
As long as you are using her for your turn I would think you can snuff a figure out sometime during her turn. Generally before attacking we play any cards and or abilities before we attack and end with the attack, but you are right about it not really specifying. Hence attacking a figure and then snuffing them out from the damage done to them.

[Kajoq]

How are you guys handling playing with more than one planeswalker per player?

Did a game last night with 2 Planeswalkers each, shuffled both decks entirely together and used that as my library (24 cards instead of 12), and a player could activate ANY army card on each of their turns.

Have also played once or twice where it was more like each individual was playing as 2 players and had to alternate back and forth. One Red Army Card and only Red army cards available followed by a turn of One Green Army card and only green army cards available for example.

I think the 1st example worked better all around. The larger library meant you actually had to make some choices in your timing with cards and you were less likely to have a squad just die before it did anything if you had to leave it stationary for 2 full turns before it came back to that color.

Hopefully the Eldrazi exapnsion gives us more cohesive rules for deckbuilding

[HeroTempest]

How are you guys handling playing with more than one planeswalker per player?

Did a game last night with 2 Planeswalkers each, shuffled both decks entirely together and used that as my library (24 cards instead of 12), and a player could activate ANY army card on each of their turns.

Have also played once or twice where it was more like each individual was playing as 2 players and had to alternate back and forth. One Red Army Card and only Red army cards available followed by a turn of One Green Army card and only green army cards available for example.

I think the 1st example worked better all around. The larger library meant you actually had to make some choices in your timing with cards and you were less likely to have a squad just die before it did anything if you had to leave it stationary for 2 full turns before it came back to that color.

Hopefully the Eldrazi exapnsion gives us more cohesive rules for deckbuilding

I'd stick with the 2nd option: control 2 planeswalkers individually as a 2 vs 2 battle. Each one with its own deck of 12 cards taking its own turn as usual.

[Confred]

I've thought about this also, first thinking each figure gets its own deck, but that method takes up more board space. The way the cards are worded, instead of saying this Planeswalker they say a Planeswalker you control, i think the decks should be shuffled. If so, are the decks still limited to 12 cards?

[TREX]

I've thought about this also, first thinking each figure gets its own deck, but that method takes up more board space. The way the cards are worded, instead of saying this Planeswalker they say a Planeswalker you control, i think the decks should be shuffled. If so, are the decks still limited to 12 cards?
I've thought about this as well. This is the way I'm thinking of doing it. Shuffle both colors together, if only 12 cards, shuffle them together and pick 12 randomly. Then on your turn you choose a red PW or a Blue PW or either squads to use, draw a card and use it to the best of your ability. If you pull a blue card, you may strategize towards using blue, if red, go that way. That seems like it would be fun. With this game you don't use turn markers anyway, you just pick a character to take a turn with. @Kajog, may be right about a new manual that teaches how to deck build with the expansion. Expansion...:drool:

[Kajoq]

I believe they intend the deck to be only 12 cards no matter what, when we did it we shuffled all 24 together and started with 4 in hand and it felt a lot better as there was still a chunk of your deck you wouldn't see instead of knowing you were going to go through every card eventually and get exactly what you needed

[Confred]

I think if the decks have both colors, the activations remain the same. You can still cast red spells but activate your blue Planeswalker. But if Chandra were to die, those red cards would be dead cards. Likewise I think the 3 spell and 2 summon limit remains in place. You could summon a Firecat within 5 spaces of Chandra and a phantom within 5 spaces of Jace

[HeroTempest]

Now that expansion is out, how do you guys think of managing people that want to play with same colours pw? A draft for deckbuiding?
I'm getting 2 core sets and a expansion, so 2 players of same color identity can play at same time, but the cards are limited. I'm thinking in drafting cards among players. What do you think?

And..
Does the deck must contain 12 cards capped at 200 points? Or I could build one with less cards, but more powerfull spells?

[bradtato]

Now that expansion is out, how do you guys think of managing people that want to play with same colours pw? A draft for deckbuiding?
I'm getting 2 core sets and a expansion, so 2 players of same color identity can play at same time, but the cards are limited. I'm thinking in drafting cards among players. What do you think?

And..
Does the deck must contain 12 cards capped at 200 points? Or I could build one with less cards, but more powerfull spells?



Drafting seems like a good plan, especially down the road when there's more expansions available. The rulebook specifies your spell deck MUST contain EXACTLY 12 cards, and that those 12 cards CANNOT exceed 200 points.


I've actually played a game with a friend where we each used two Planeswalkers, with one single 24 card, 400 point spell deck. We could activate either of our colors on our turn, but whichever color we chose to activate was the color spell we could play that turn. The depth of strategy in that came was mind blowing, because something as simple a a card drawn at the beginning of your turn can (and did) completely alter your plan of action. I'm so ready to be able to house-rule spell deck sizes.

[Confred]

After making tons of customs, the 12 cards / 200 points limit is an important part of the balancing act. However, it can be easily house ruled.

[Kajoq]

Now that expansion is out, how do you guys think of managing people that want to play with same colours pw? A draft for deckbuiding?
I'm getting 2 core sets and a expansion, so 2 players of same color identity can play at same time, but the cards are limited. I'm thinking in drafting cards among players. What do you think?

And..
Does the deck must contain 12 cards capped at 200 points? Or I could build one with less cards, but more powerfull spells?



Drafting seems like a good plan, especially down the road when there's more expansions available. The rulebook specifies your spell deck MUST contain EXACTLY 12 cards, and that those 12 cards CANNOT exceed 200 points.


I've actually played a game with a friend where we each used two Planeswalkers, with one single 24 card, 400 point spell deck. We could activate either of our colors on our turn, but whichever color we chose to activate was the color spell we could play that turn. The depth of strategy in that came was mind blowing, because something as simple a a card drawn at the beginning of your turn can (and did) completely alter your plan of action. I'm so ready to be able to house-rule spell deck sizes.

I too have played this way a couple of times and I like it quite a bit more. With 1 planeswalker it can be way too easy to just store a couple of good spells, super buff your guys then run in and essentially 1 shot their PW. The Pummelroots are great at it (overrun), the Firecats are great at it (Twinflame -> Dualcasting ->Twinflame), the Reavers are pretty solid at it and the Vampires will be ever better (any black buffs).
I think the 12 card Library is way too small. There's almost no variance and you can pretty much always see/dig to the exact card you want. With a 24 card deck there's some actual choices to be made

[Confred]

Kajoq I agree that 12 is a bit small in that you're almost guaranteed to see every card in your deck without effort.

[Kajoq]

Yeah, That's part of what makes M:TG what it is. The variance of not always having exactly what you need and having to be creative with how you use what you're presented. I have a feeling as more content comes out and the points totals rise, we'll see the official deck size increase (likely to 20 at first)

[gamjuven]

Ok I have a question regarding the new expansion: Here is a link to the picture in question:http://postimg.org/image/gv4dhmivt/

It's on page 5 of the new expansion thread here on this site.

But anyway, my question is about the Eldrazi Ruiner for the 4 player scenario. It has 2 abilities that have me confused. The first is Relentless which says "Whenever Eldrazi Ruiner destroys a figure in combat, it may attack again". And then immediately after it has an ability called Lay Waste, which says "If no Planeswalkers are adjacent to Eldrazi Ruiner at the end of its attack, deal 1 damage to all figures your opponents control up to 6 clear sight spaces away".

I am wondering how this works? Does the Ruiner Lay Waste after every single attack, or just once? If a figure is destroyed by Lay Waste does it get to attack again? What counts as the end of an attack? Is it the end of all the attacks, or each individual one?

[HeroTempest]

Ok I have a question regarding the new expansion: Here is a link to the picture in question:http://postimg.org/image/gv4dhmivt/

It's on page 5 of the new expansion thread here on this site.

But anyway, my question is about the Eldrazi Ruiner for the 4 player scenario. It has 2 abilities that have me confused. The first is Relentless which says "Whenever Eldrazi Ruiner destroys a figure in combat, it may attack again". And then immediately after it has an ability called Lay Waste, which says "If no Planeswalkers are adjacent to Eldrazi Ruiner at the end of its attack, deal 1 damage to all figures your opponents control up to 6 clear sight spaces away".

I am wondering how this works? Does the Ruiner Lay Waste after every single attack, or just once? If a figure is destroyed by Lay Waste does it get to attack again? What counts as the end of an attack? Is it the end of all the attacks, or each individual one?

I guess you keep attacking while it is destroying figures, but you can't move, just attack again. The second one, " lay waste" , it's triggered after the attack phase ends. But this is what I think, not 100% sure about it.

[gamjuven]

Also, random question: The White sorcery Swift Justice, that gives a creature life link, it says "while attacking with this figure, for each damage it deals to the defending figure, remove a damage marker from this figure". Is damage dealt to a figure just the amount of life it has left, or is the damage a no-ceiling type of thing? I would assume the former but I wanted to check. I'm thinking the Eldrazi Ruiner might be pretty good in a white deck, despite ruining the theme, lol, and Swift Justice is a must have.

[Targanth]

Ok I have a question regarding the new expansion: Here is a link to the picture in question:http://postimg.org/image/gv4dhmivt/

It's on page 5 of the new expansion thread here on this site.

But anyway, my question is about the Eldrazi Ruiner for the 4 player scenario. It has 2 abilities that have me confused. The first is Relentless which says "Whenever Eldrazi Ruiner destroys a figure in combat, it may attack again". And then immediately after it has an ability called Lay Waste, which says "If no Planeswalkers are adjacent to Eldrazi Ruiner at the end of its attack, deal 1 damage to all figures your opponents control up to 6 clear sight spaces away".

I am wondering how this works? Does the Ruiner Lay Waste after every single attack, or just once? If a figure is destroyed by Lay Waste does it get to attack again? What counts as the end of an attack? Is it the end of all the attacks, or each individual one?

I guess you keep attacking while it is destroying figures, but you can't move, just attack again. The second one, " lay waste" , it's triggered after the attack phase ends. But this is what I think, not 100% sure about it.
Not sure about this either. My opinion -pretty much the same as Hero Tempest:

Relentless
"Whenever Eldrazi Ruiner destroys a figure in combat, it may attack again".
A figure killed by Relentless would allow the Runier to have an additional combat attack. This could chain as long as the Ruiner has someone to attack.

Lay Waste
"If no Planeswalkers are adjacent to Eldrazi Ruiner at the end of its attack, deal 1 damage to all figures your opponents control up to 6 clear sight spaces away".
So once the Ruiner can no longer attack (i.e has used up all attacks that it can make) then the conditions for Lay Waste would be checked.

A figure destroyed by Lay Waste would not trigger Relentless because Lay Waste is not a combat attack - no dice are rolled.

[Targanth]

Also, random question: The White sorcery Swift Justice, that gives a creature life link, it says "while attacking with this figure, for each damage it deals to the defending figure, remove a damage marker from this figure". Is damage dealt to a figure just the amount of life it has left, or is the damage a no-ceiling type of thing? I would assume the former but I wanted to check. I'm thinking the Eldrazi Ruiner might be pretty good in a white deck, despite ruining the theme, lol, and Swift Justice is a must have.

Another opinion here. I agree that it would apply only to the remaining life of a creature. So, doing 3 damage to an opponent figure with 1 life remaining would kill the opponent figure and remove only 1 damage marker.

[quozl]

Please ask Hasbro Customer Service these questions and report back with the answers.

[gamjuven]

Please ask Hasbro Customer Service these questions and report back with the answers.

Yeah I just did. They said they'd get back to me in a day or two. :)

[HeroTempest]

Also, random question: The White sorcery Swift Justice, that gives a creature life link, it says "while attacking with this figure, for each damage it deals to the defending figure, remove a damage marker from this figure". Is damage dealt to a figure just the amount of life it has left, or is the damage a no-ceiling type of thing? I would assume the former but I wanted to check. I'm thinking the Eldrazi Ruiner might be pretty good in a white deck, despite ruining the theme, lol, and Swift Justice is a must have.

Following the rules of card game, you get as much life as the damage you did. If you attack a Phoenix with one remaining life with 5 direct hits, you get 5 life back. But this is AotP, not M:TG, maybe the rules can change.

[Kajoq]

Following the rules of card game, you get as much life as the damage you did. If you attack a Phoenix with one remaining life with 5 direct hits, you get 5 life back. But this is AotP, not M:TG, maybe the rules can change.

This is my view on how it worked as well. As much damage dealt is how much you heal, regardless of target's remaining life.

[Marro_Warlord]

It depends on how they define "Damage". If "Damage" is not limited by the toughness/life then the life gained has no ceiling. (This is how it's done in Magic.) If "Damage" is the amount of wounds placed on the card, there would be a finite amount of life that could be gained back from lifelink. I would assume it follows the card game, but I could be wrong.

[gamjuven]

Ok, I got an official answer:

I had a question about this card and sent it to Hasbro:

The White sorcery Swift Justice, from the base set, that gives a creature life link, it says: "while attacking with this figure, for each damage it deals to the defending figure, remove a damage marker from this figure".

Is damage dealt to a figure just the amount of life it has left, or is the damage a no-ceiling type of thing? I would assume the former but I wanted to check. Some of the confusion comes from the card game, which would actually rule the latter as being correct.

And for an example: If the Eldrazi Ruiner (who has 6 wounds on it) rolls 6 hits against a 1-life opposing creature, and that creature rolls no shields, does the Eldrazi Ruiner get to remove 1 or 6 wounds from its card?

Here is the official answer:

"Thank you for contacting Hasbro regarding your game-play question. I'm pleased to reply.

You are correct. The "damage" would mean the amount of damage that you do to an opponent and let you know how much life they have left.

If you use a card with 6 wounds on it then you would remove 6 wounds.

Again, I'd like to thank you for taking the time to reach out to us.

I hope you have a fun day!"

[gamjuven]

Sorry for the double post, but I got a response. I am now even more confused:
"Thank you for your email.

The damage is done on just the amount of life it has left. Eldrazi Ruiner (who has 6 wounds on it), would have to remove one wound from its card, not six."

[quozl]

Is it the same responder?

[gamjuven]

Is it the same responder?

Different responder, to which I asked a follow up question asking which one was correct. I got this response:

"Hi Brad!

I verified the answer I gave with our games team and I can assure you the information I've provided is correct. "

[Kajoq]

I get the impression nobody in development actually knows and they're making a lot of these FAQ answers up on the fly without confirming. A lot of the FAQ answers seem like they didn't even quite understand the question fully.

The unclear/inconsistent rules could really end up holding this game back

[Cavalier]

I get the impression nobody in development actually knows and they're making a lot of these FAQ answers up on the fly without confirming. A lot of the FAQ answers seem like they didn't even quite understand the question fully.

The unclear/inconsistent rules could really end up holding this game back
We had the same problem with Scape back in the day. The Hasbro drones answering front line questions often had never seen the game and didn't understand that there was actually a community tryong to come to a consensus on proper play and rule interpretation.

We eventually got the "Official" answers team, who happened to be community members who were involved early on and had become play testers and eventually designers. We don't currently have that luxury with AotP... and Craig doesn't see the questions that we submit to Hasbro Customer Support.

[vegietarian18]

Does Nissa Revane count as an elf to trigger Elvish Blade Finesse? Her card does not say elf on it, but a wiki search told me she actually is an elf. By Heroscape standards, I'd say the answer is no, but this isn't Heroscape so I'd figure I'd ask.

[Marro_Warlord]

Does Nissa Revane count as an elf to trigger Elvish Blade Finesse? Her card does not say elf on it, but a wiki search told me she actually is an elf. By Heroscape standards, I'd say the answer is no, but this isn't Heroscape so I'd figure I'd ask.

I'd say no. Thematically yes, but in the game, no. Instead of having an Elf subtype, she has the subtype "Nissa", which means she's not an elf.

Secondly, If your opponent reveals a hidden enchant that increases power or toughness, like Battlewise Valor, AFTER you resolve Twisted Image, what takes precedence? Would the spell alter the new power and toughness of the squad, or would it be added to the original power and toughness and then reversed. According to the official Magic, it would change the original, and then switch.

What I'm asking is: Do pump spells casted after Twisted Image resolves "Twisted" as well, or do they provide the intended bonus?

[Confred]

What I'm asking is: Do pump spells casted after Twisted Image resolves "Twisted" as well, or do they provide the intended bonus?

If the pump spell, +0/+1, is applied before, it does effect, 0/1, on the image and the image twists, 1/0
If the pump spell is applied after, the image is already twisted and the spell does its effect, 0/1.

~"Switch target figure's power and toughness until end of turn. Until end of turn, if a spell or ability would increase or decrease power, it affects toughness instead. Until end of turn, if a spell or ability would increase or decrease toughness, it affects power instead."~

[vegietarian18]

We've been playing a lot so I have a lot of questions. Most of them involve sequencing, so here is the rulebook's list of how turns go.

Action 1: Draw a card.
Action 2: Choose an army card.
before Action 3: Summon if Planeswalker
before Action 3: you may cast spells
Action 3: Move one or more figures on your army card.
Action 4: Attack with one or more figures on your army card.
after action 4: you may cast spells
Action 5: Move turn marker

So:

1. Can you take a turn with a figure destroyed by Dark Harvest if it is immediately resurrected by Rise of the Dark Realms? Both cards would be played during the spell casting phase between actions 2 and 3. Thus, we have selected the card we are going with, but we have not yet moved any figures on it. The ruling on the field was no, since the newly resurrected figure would come to life with "summoning sickness", but I am questioning that more now.

2. When is the "start of your turn of a Planeswalker?" I'm referring specifically to the power Illusionary Deception on the Illusionary Projections, which reads, "At the start of the turn of a blue Planeswalker you control". We ask specifically because of the scenario in which Jace wants to summon a squad in the middle of the fight, and then retreat with Illusionary Deception. The ruling on the field was that "the start of the turn" occurred immediately after Action 2, and since summoning occurs before Action 3, Jace had to retreat before summoning. This ruling I am more confident in but I figured I would post it in case others had thoughts.

3. When can you use activated abilities (ie Liliana's Snuff Out, Jace's Focused Thoughts, Chandra's Super Heated)? The scenario that I ask for is one where there is a figure Liliana wants to Snuff Out nine spaces away from her. Can she move forward three spaces, Snuff Out, then move back three spaces? That feels like cheating, but I don't see why she couldn't. The only restriction on the power is that you can only use it once per turn. A logical conclusion would be that activated abilities can only be used a time when a spell could be cast, but again that is not written anywhere.

(The "clarification" the rulebook has on abilities is that they "keep the game exciting, challenging, and unpredictable", which I guess is true if you have to make up rules as you play.)

Not a sequencing questions, but rules question nonetheless:

4. If I have purple creatures in my army that are not yet summoned/dead, can I use Honor of the Pure for the White Creatures in my army? Dead I would definitely say yes, but not yet summoned felt like a gray area. The card reads "as long as you control only white creatures", and cards that are not yet summoned feel like they are still in your control.

(This is written differently than the 4th Mass/Sacred Band power (as long as vs. if), so I'm not sure if we can use that precedent. It's also a different game's precedent.)

5. Can I play cards like Healing Salve/Skyreaping without meeting their condition just to draw a card? I'm referring specifically to a scenario in which I do not have any creatures on the board. Can I play the card just for the last sentence of it, or I do I have to be able to use the first? The ruling on the field was that you had to have a creature to be able to cast the card, but it didn't have to be wounded/adjacent to a flying figure.

[KingZombie]

This has probably been answered already so I apologize, but each creature in a squad has the life points listed, correct. So if it's 3, all 3 have 3 life points each? Or does each one only have 1 life point each?

I ask because how do you keep track of each individual? Or is it like magic where what doesn't kill the monster goes away at the end of the turn?


***Disclaimer: I just got the game the other day and haven't read the rules thoroughly and really need to.

[Targanth]

This has probably been answered already so I apologize, but each creature in a squad has the life points listed, correct. So if it's 3, all 3 have 3 life points each? Or does each one only have 1 life point each?

I ask because how do you keep track of each individual? Or is it like magic where what doesn't kill the monster goes away at the end of the turn?


***Disclaimer: I just got the game the other day and haven't read the rules thoroughly and really need to.
Yes, each figure has the life listed on the card. Use the small square purple bits to keep track of wounds to each figure - place them on the base of the wounded figure.

[TREX]

When you get the expansion and build your sorcery deck, can you use multiples of certain cards as long as you stay under the alotted amount of points. Speaking of which, how many points and how many cards can you get. I am yet to recieve the copy of the zendikar expansion I have purchased. As I plan on making an extra copy of all my sorcery cards for this very reason. Also, so Players at my house can have the same cards if both of them have a same colored planeswalker. I do know that there will be a red/black one and a blue/green one for sure.

[vegietarian18]

I think someone official said you only can have one of each spell in a deck, but it's not officially in the rulebook. You get 200 points and 12 cards.

Also, there is a difference between "spell" and "sorcery". A sorcery is a type of spell, with the other type being "enchantment". Sorceries do something when played while enchantments change stats of the figure they are cast on until removed. It's important to know that difference since some cards specifically reference sorceries.

[KingZombie]

I think someone official said you only can have one of each spell in a deck, but it's not officially in the rulebook. You get 200 points and 12 cards.



I got the expansion, it talks about multi-colored planewalkers being able to draft cards in the colors they are. No mention of spell limits.

Having read the rules and being a former magic player, it makes sense to me that you can have whatever spells you want in your deck. That's part of the reason I picked up a second starter. It gives the game more variety with construction.

[chas]

And then again, until we get more expansions,what's to stop you for experimenting by just declaring that different Planeswalkers are multi colored for such and such colors? Not me.

[vegietarian18]

I think someone official said you only can have one of each spell in a deck, but it's not officially in the rulebook. You get 200 points and 12 cards.



I got the expansion, it talks about multi-colored planewalkers being able to draft cards in the colors they are. No mention of spell limits.

Having read the rules and being a former magic player, it makes sense to me that you can have whatever spells you want in your deck. That's part of the reason I picked up a second starter. It gives the game more variety with construction.

I can't find anything confirming what I said, but I'm 90% sure that someone that designed the game said that you were only allowed to play one of each spell. If someone else could confirm this, that would be great.

I agree that it would give the game more variety, but Magic has a 60 card library while this game only has a 12 card library. With Magic's max of 4 cards in a library, you are actually more likely to draw a single card in this game than draw one of four from a MtG library. The decks would quickly become way too predictable if you were allowed to play multiples of spells.

[The Backlog]

I've been lurking this site for like 6 years. Hi. LOL. I suspect this answer is out there somewhere, but I read through a few things and couldn't find a definitive answer- just ideas.

Is there a method that works to play Heroscape units in this game without conversion? Like, can I just treat them the same as the normal Magic squads that come with the game but keeping all their Heroscape stats?

[caps]

I've been lurking this site for like 6 years. Hi. LOL. I suspect this answer is out there somewhere, but I read through a few things and couldn't find a definitive answer- just ideas.

Is there a method that works to play Heroscape units in this game without conversion? Like, can I just treat them the same as the normal Magic squads that come with the game but keeping all their Heroscape stats?
Welcome to the site!

We've been chatting about how to *integrate* the two games over here (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=52515). If you look in the "AotP Blender" subforum I think you'll find some other threads discussing similar things.

[Marro_Warlord]

I've been lurking this site for like 6 years. Hi. LOL. I suspect this answer is out there somewhere, but I read through a few things and couldn't find a definitive answer- just ideas.

Is there a method that works to play Heroscape units in this game without conversion? Like, can I just treat them the same as the normal Magic squads that come with the game but keeping all their Heroscape stats?

That is pretty close to what I did and it worked smoothly. Some spells have a lessened effect. This would be a good time to use "Uncommon Squads". Common Squads that are different, so you can cast enchantments on something like the 4th Massachusetts Line.

[The Backlog]

Thank you both!

[chas]

And now for my first Zendikar questions: :rimshot:

1. In the Takedown scenario, does the Path Wardens' Escort ability cancel out the Ruiner's Lay Waste ability if it is not adjacent? That is, does it cancel out abilities, or only regular (die rolling) attacks?

(I'd say "No," but I'd prefer "Yes!")

2. Can the any number of abilities noted as "At the start of your turn" activate on the same turn? For example, can the Ruiner as per Shepard of Scions take a hit, restore a Scion and then ues the Eldrazi Scion card ability Devour For Strength for the +2 attack bonus on the same turn? (Yes).

[caps]

And now for my first Zendikar questions: :rimshot:

1. In the Takedown scenario, does the Path Wardens' Escort ability cancel out the Ruiner's Lay Waste ability if it is not adjacent? That is, does it cancel out abilities, or only regular (die rolling) attacks?

(I'd say "No," but I'd prefer "Yes!")

2. Can the any number of abilities noted as "At the start of your turn" activate on the same turn? For example, can the Ruiner as per Shepard of Scions take a hit, restore a Scion and then ues the Eldrazi Scion card ability Devour For Strength for the +2 attack bonus on the same turn? (Yes).
I don't know about question 1, but I assume yes for question 2.

[Confred]

Path Warden
I assume Yes, but can Path Wardens escort each other?


Takedown scenario, does the Path Wardens' Escort ability cancel out the Ruiner's Lay Waste ability if it is not adjacent? That is, does it cancel out abilities, or only regular (die rolling) attacks?


Lay Waste is not an attack. Path Wardens only escort away from attacks.
Figures escorted by Path Wardens may also be Super Heated by Chandra.

[chas]

You could drive a truck through the holes in these rules![/I] In [I]Heroscape, they'd be immune from distance attacks themselves (Thorian Speed), as well as shielding others! Not only should they be able to Escort each other, but they should probably have the power for themselves, I'd think...otherwise, how could they use their woodcraft for the benefit of others?

Since I'm not interested in any tournament scene that may develop, I'll feel free to house rule such things!

[TREX]

I have a series of questions, the first being: On some of the cards it says until the end of the turn. Does this mean, when your done attacking, or does this affect last until you take your next turn. There are some cards, including a blue sorcery that flips the attack and defense values of a squad until the end of the turn. If it just lasts until your done attacking why would it need to swap the attack and defense. That's what makes me think it would last until you take your next turn.

[chas]

I've been playing that it only lasts during your own turn.

[TREX]

I've been playing that it only lasts during your own turn.
That's also how we have played, yet there are some cards that do not make any sense played that way. That is why I ask.

[Confred]

Agreed, it only lasts until the end of the current turn.

My customs include wordings to extend beyond your own turn.

[mcmeeple]

Finally played AoTP and had a few questions:

Do you have to "select" your planeswalker as your active unit in order to play spell cards on a given turn?

Can units in your reserve have enchantments on them?

If a unit is sent back to the reserve (un-summon) do they loose any enchantments and damage?

[TREX]

Finally played AoTP and had a few questions:

Do you have to "select" your planeswalker as your active unit in order to play spell cards on a given turn?

Can units in your reserve have enchantments on them?

If a unit is sent back to the reserve (un-summon) do they loose any enchantments and damage?
You do not have to select your planeswalker to use spell cards unless they pertain to the planeswalker. EX. add attack to your planeswalker or something. You do have to have a planeswalker to use spell cards though. If all the units that are on a card are destroyed or in reserve, then the enchantment goes away. You can't place an enchantment on a unit that hasn't been summoned yet.

[igelkott]

Finally played AoTP and had a few questions:

Do you have to "select" your planeswalker as your active unit in order to play spell cards on a given turn?
It doesn't say you have to so I would say no. You can play spells no matter which army card you select. Indeed, you can play a spell card before you select an army card, so no need to select the PW.

Can units in your reserve have enchantments on them?

I don't see anything in the rules that would prevent this, so I think you can. Not sure why you would but it's ok by me.

If a unit is sent back to the reserve (un-summon) do they loose any enchantments and damage?
Yes, see page 13, Returning a Squad to Owner’s Reserve. It says the squad loses all damage markers and all attached enchantments.

[mcmeeple]

Thank you guys. My son kept putting enchantments on units in the reserve to buff them before summoning them. Seems to me that units in reserve can have neither damage or buffs.

Thanks again!

[gamjuven]

I'm pretty sure you cannot put enchantments on a reserved unit but I don't have the proof on me.

[TREX]

Finally played AoTP and had a few questions:

Do you have to "select" your planeswalker as your active unit in order to play spell cards on a given turn?
It doesn't say you have to so I would say no. You can play spells no matter which army card you select. Indeed, you can play a spell card before you select an army card, so no need to select the PW.

Can units in your reserve have enchantments on them?

I don't see anything in the rules that would prevent this, so I think you can. Not sure why you would but it's ok by me.

If a unit is sent back to the reserve (un-summon) do they loose any enchantments and damage?
Yes, see page 13, Returning a Squad to Owner’s Reserve. It says the squad loses all damage markers and all attached enchantments.
If you lose the enchantment when a unit is sent back to the reserve, It would also apply to a unit that is still in there waiting to be summoned.

[Confred]

My son kept putting enchantments on units in the reserve to buff them before summoning them.
Clever son for thinking he could though

[Unhinged Manchild]

I got trashed by my wife in a game of black planeswalker (me) vs blue planeswalker (her.) She won with 2 life on her Planeswalker and two figures of each of her two squads on the map.

I thought I had a hot move with a "deal 3 wounds to each squad creature adjacent to you" spell, so I moved my PW into four of her squaddies only to get the spell freaking countered. It was basically game over right there. She unsummoned my one squad and then wrecked 2 out of the three of the other squad.

How do you play the black walker? All melee squads, zombies with 1 life and 1 defense?!? I thought they would be cool (maybe not OP like blue, but at least a decent fight) and fun to use.

[TREX]

brandonwiker, I've found if you get your squaddies in to wound the enemy creatures, liliana can snuff them out quite easily. Jace, the blue planeswalker is a pain with all his sorcery greatness.

[Cavalier]

With Liliana, I make use of the squads. Blighted Reavers -2 defense to opponent creatures Restless Zombies return from the dead, Liliana pumping up both squads Defense then Snuffing Out to finish 'em off...

[Unhinged Manchild]

With Liliana, I make use of the squads. Blighted Reavers -2 defense to oponent creatures creatures Restless Zombies rerurn from the dead, Liliana pumping up both squads Defense then Snuffing Out to finish 'em off...

I thought only the 1 defense zombies could get that defense buff? I just feel the zombies at 1 life and 1-2 defense is so weak. Plus, you can't regen the squad if only one of them is alive on the field, right? It seems so easy to play around.

brandonwiker, I've found if you get your squaddies in to wound the enemy creatures, liliana can snuff them out quite easily. Jace, the blue planeswalker is a pain with all his sorcery greatness.

I got one of my two squad kills that game with snuff out, and the other with the spell "sac one of your squaddies adjacent to one of theirs to destroy theirs."

Oh well, I'm sure I'll learn with time. More advice is welcome, thank you guys.

[Cavalier]

I thought only the 1 defense zombies could get that defense buff? I just feel the zombies at 1 life and 1-2 defense is so weak. Plus, you can't regen the squad if only one of them is alive on the field, right? It seems so easy to play around.



Any Zombie you control. Both Blighted Reavers and Restless Zombies are zombies, so receive the bonus.
ZOMBIE TOUGHNESS
All Zombies you control within 4 clear sight spaces of Liliana get +1 (toughness).

Yes, you can only rebirth your zombies if they are all destroyed, but if your opponent decides not to destroy one, use it as a buzzing gnat :D

[caps]

... Or snuff it out for more life.

[ZeusEQ]

I have a question regarding Leaf Arrow, the green enchantment. It says "enchanted planeswalker gets +1 power as long as it is unengaged. Before enchanted Planeswalker attacks, you may destroy leaf arrow. If you do, enchanted Planeswalker gets +2 power until end of turn"

A rule-lawyer friend of mine interpreted it this way: You can enchant a planeswalker to give him +1 power as long as he is unengaged. However, if you discard it, the planeswalker gets a flat +2 power and the engagement thing is not necessary. I hadn't thought about that before but the card is ambiguous.

Thoughts?

The above was posted some time ago, but as I'm expecting my copy of the game any day now, I was reading up on some of the most common holes in the rules, and came across this one.


It seems the consensus was that you could destroy the enchantment voluntarily to receive the +2 bonus which you can then also use in an engagement, as for that half of the ability the restriction was not mentioned. However, the voluntary destruction takes place before you attack - ie after you move. That would mean you can't destroy the enchantment for the +2 bonus, and then move into engagement - and you can't be engaged BEFORE destroying the enchantment voluntarily, as the enchantment would be destroyed automatically (without yielding the +2 bonus) as soon as you moved into engagement, right? So the bonus only ever works for ranged attacks.


Did I misunderstand something, or was this maybe overlooked before?


--Zeus

[caps]

... you can't be engaged BEFORE destroying the enchantment voluntarily, as the enchantment would be destroyed automatically (without yielding the +2 bonus) as soon as you moved into engagement, right?
Nothing on the card says that it is destroyed when you move into engagement. It just says that if you are engaged you don't get the bonus that turn.

--

So the bonus only ever works for ranged attacks.
The +1 bonus, yes, but the +2 bonus would work for all attacks.

--

The real ambiguity to me is whether you *also* get the +1 while non-engaged after you destroy the enchantment (for a total of +3 for the turn). My take is no, since you destroyed the enchantment that part is no longer in effect.

[ZeusEQ]

... you can't be engaged BEFORE destroying the enchantment voluntarily, as the enchantment would be destroyed automatically (without yielding the +2 bonus) as soon as you moved into engagement, right?
Nothing on the card says that it is destroyed when you move into engagement. It just says that if you are engaged you don't get the bonus that turn.

--

So the bonus only ever works for ranged attacks.
The +1 bonus, yes, but the +2 bonus would work for all attacks.

--

The real ambiguity to me is whether you *also* get the +1 while non-engaged after you destroy the enchantment (for a total of +3 for the turn). My take is no, since you destroyed the enchantment that part is no longer in effect.

Indeed, I don't know where I got the notion that the enchantment was destroyed when moving into engagement... I guess I must have read "as long as it is unengaged" as "as long as it STAYS unengaged" or something like that :) .


So I have to agree with your assessment, and I also agree with your interpretation that the +1 bonus for the enchantment no longer applies as soon as you voluntarily destroy it.


Thanks for setting me straight ;) .

[mcmeeple]

Random question. If I have multiple copies of the core set, is there any reason players can't draft a set of spell cards towards a specific point value. As a result, they are likely to have multiples of a given spell.

[Marro_Warlord]

Random question. If I have multiple copies of the core set, is there any reason players can't draft a set of spell cards towards a specific point value. As a result, they are likely to have multiples of a given spell.

There is no reason why players can't. You can build your deck out of whatever you want, provided it doesn't exceed the point limit.

However, you cannot have more than one unique squad from the base set.

[chas]

And the overall limit of having only seven spells in your hand (p.6, Core Set). Because it is so stripped down, the rules say nothing about using multiple sets. As Heroscape properly did at the start (saying that each player army could have the same unique hero in it). Until the Fall, when deck building will finally come into its own, I'd say anything goes if you are using multiple sets.

After that, it remains to be seen whether they will put a limit on them. They certainly can't keep adding to the point totals so that you can use all or almost all of the official cards, as they have so far in the Core Set and First Expansion.

Best to make a clear House Rule for everyone, both for now and in the Fall.

[mcmeeple]

Random question. If I have multiple copies of the core set, is there any reason players can't draft a set of spell cards towards a specific point value. As a result, they are likely to have multiples of a given spell.

There is no reason why players can't. You can build your deck out of whatever you want, provided it doesn't exceed the point limit.

However, you cannot have more than one unique squad from the base set.

Awesome, it seemed reasonable enough.

In time I plan to break the unique squad limit...but not until we start to grow the game more. I feel like we are still learning our way with the units and spells. Heck, we haven't even started using all our heroscape terrain.

[caps]

Aren't the spells also "common" and "unique"?

[TREX]

Aren't the spells also "common" and "unique"?
It seemed as though they were determined by a point cost in a deck build, not unique.

[Targanth]

Aren't the spells also "common" and "unique"?
It seemed as though they were determined by a point cost in a deck build, not unique.
No, not common or unique spell cards. There are Enchantment and Sorcery cards. They can be cast on PWs or creatures.

[Confred]

Magic: the Gathering has a 4-card limit to cards of the same name, unless they are basic, to which there is unlimited. MtG uses 60 card decks. AotP use 12 card decks. The ratio would then say limit 1 per deck. I have not found an official rule that states this however.
However still, after making hundreds of customs and card conversions, it is clear that 1 per deck creates a design flexibility. A card can be powerful and cheap, because there is only one of them. A card can be a strictly worse version of another card, because then you could have 2+ cards with the same function.
1 per deck is best.

[TREX]

Targanth, I think he was asking if you could use more than one card in a deck if you have multiples. I don't think it clarifies on that very well, as I have not seen any rules on that like Confred states. If you had multiples of the same card it could be very annoying by your opponent, if you included multiple copies of cheap point cards that are powerful.

[Marro_Warlord]

Now that Confred mentions a one-card-limit, I think I'm drawing a comparison to a Magic format...

For me, it seems very similar to EDH or Commander, in which you have a 100-card deck where no cards (save basic lands) can have the same name. In addition, you have a "commander", which is a legendary creature (or in this case, Planeswalker) that leads it. You can only have spells that match the Commander's color.

For example, if I have Nissa as my commander, I can only play Colorless or Green cards.

I don't think Wizards will officially make a one-card limit, but I do think it should be considered for tourneys.

Casual play --> Any Number is fine.
Competitive play --> Maybe limit to one?

[chas]

As I imply above, after the Fall, I'll probably institute a "no duplicate spells in your Spell Deck" rule.

Then again, such a simple game is still easily changed, so if you don't want your PWs to burn out so fast, say if you're playing them with Heroscape--although I probably won't do this myself---you can just reshuffle your spell discards!

[mcmeeple]

Magic: the Gathering has a 4-card limit to cards of the same name, unless they are basic, to which there is unlimited. MtG uses 60 card decks. AotP use 12 card decks. The ratio would then say limit 1 per deck. I have not found an official rule that states this however.
However still, after making hundreds of customs and card conversions, it is clear that 1 per deck creates a design flexibility. A card can be powerful and cheap, because there is only one of them. A card can be a strictly worse version of another card, because then you could have 2+ cards with the same function.
1 per deck is best.

This is an interesting point. Limited quantity does allow for more flexibility in the card cost. But then why would some cards cost more then others. Shouldn't the point cost be a sliding scale based on the powerfullness of a card? A low cost high power card breaks that model and makes the points kind of useless doesn't it? Wouldn't that lead to a stale world where the same high power low cost cards are always used.

I do however like the idea of a 4 card limit as in many TCG's or maybe 2 due to the small deck size in AoTP. And I guess I missed the 12 card limit? I assumed you could have any # of cards so long as it is under 200pts.

[Marro_Warlord]

There's no limit on the spell deck. (I think) The starting decks only have twelve cards, so that's where that number came from. There is no minimum deck size.

[igelkott]

There's no limit on the spell deck. (I think) The starting decks only have twelve cards, so that's where that number came from. There is no minimum deck size.

The rules specifically say that a spell deck must have exactly 12 cards.. on page 14:

Building Your Spell Deck: Once you have selected which
Planeswalker you would like to include in your army, you
will then need to build your spell deck. Each spell deck
must contain 12 cards. The total cost of the 12 cards
cannot exceed 200. Each card in your spell deck must be of
a color matching your selected Planeswalker.

There is nothing there that says you can't have duplicate cards.

[mcmeeple]

There's no limit on the spell deck. (I think) The starting decks only have twelve cards, so that's where that number came from. There is no minimum deck size.

The rules specifically say that a spell deck must have exactly 12 cards.. on page 14:

Building Your Spell Deck: Once you have selected which
Planeswalker you would like to include in your army, you
will then need to build your spell deck. Each spell deck
must contain 12 cards. The total cost of the 12 cards
cannot exceed 200. Each card in your spell deck must be of
a color matching your selected Planeswalker.

There is nothing there that says you can't have duplicate cards.

Thank you sir. Apparently I need to re-read the rule book.

[TREX]

if you read the zendikar rulebook it will say that you have to have a point limit on the cards, off the top of my head I wanna say its 200pts. I could be wrong though.

[chas]

:confused: The reason its kind of up for grabs is that the Zendikar rules modify the Core Set rules. And the Fall expansion Innistrad may modify them again. On the other hand, those with multiple sets or their own custom cards are doing their own house rules until then (and maybe afterward too).

Got it? Good old Hasbro.

[igelkott]

Zendikar doesn't modify anything. The rules are very clear... spells have to correspond to a color on the planeswalker card. The only thing that Zendikar introduces is a PW with both green and blue on her card and the statement in the rules simply clarifies that she can indeed use both color spells. So that PW can have a spell deck with both green and blue cards. It also introduces colorless creatures but that's not relevant to the spell card rules. A deck must still consist of 12 cards, and be no more than 200 points, and Planeswalkers can cast only spell cards that have the same mana symbol and/or color. Nothing is changed with regards to spell cards.

The core set even has a section "Using Multiple Game Sets and/or Expansion Sets". It clearly says you can combine sets and it contains the spell card restrictions I quoted above. It doesn't say you can't have multiples of the same spell so if you want buy 12 core sets and have 12 Bountiful Harvest spells in your deck I don't see anything in the rules to stop this.

[chas]

Aha, you're right! Guess its only the army point totals that have changed between the Core Game and the expansion.

The general problem is still that with so little in each set, you have to consider how the rules will affect your army each time you buy an expansion, or add multiple sets, or add Heroscape and how you want to rule things in an ever changing environment. With the Fall, perhaps things will be made a bit clearer. Its not all that complicated, but its still needing extra thought.

Many different people are playing in different ways. Which is okay, but still pretty chaotic a scene for a "simple" new game.

[Teazia]

Have they ever stated officially or unofficially how the system works with HS?

[caps]

Have they ever stated officially or unofficially how the system works with HS?
No. There is no official statement stating the games are compatible. I hear that a big name said they were intended to be compatible when said big name stopped by the Heroscape tables at GenCon last year.

We have come up with some rules for integrating the two games in another thread.

[Marro_Warlord]

Oops. I guess I missed that. That makes the building restrictions even more tight. As a homebrewer, I'll probably have to do away with that rule, but it's good to know.

[Confred]

The deck restrictions are indeed super tight, but after making customs, I like the restrictions because it makes room for the need for more cards.
With that said, I'm up for variants ala MtG

[TREX]

Oops. I guess I missed that. That makes the building restrictions even more tight. As a homebrewer, I'll probably have to do away with that rule, but it's good to know.
Homebrewing, now that's magical moonshine indeed.

[keglo]

We have come up with some rules for integrating the two games in another thread.

If it's not too much trouble could you point us to the specific rules you are referring to? I'm not being lazy, it's just that there are so many threads touching on this subject that I don't know which one has the specific rules you refer to. I am very interested in using AotP as a Heroscape expansion, when I get it.

[keglo]

:EDIT:

Sorry, double post.

[Unhinged Manchild]

We have come up with some rules for integrating the two games in another thread.

If it's not too much trouble could you point us to the specific rules you are referring to? I'm not being lazy, it's just that there are so many threads touching on this subject that I don't know which one has the specific rules you refer to. I am very interested in using AotP as a Heroscape expansion, when I get it.

Try this: http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=52515

[Confred]

We have come up with some rules for integrating the two games in another thread.

If it's not too much trouble could you point us to the specific rules you are referring to? I'm not being lazy, it's just that there are so many threads touching on this subject that I don't know which one has the specific rules you refer to. I am very interested in using AotP as a Heroscape expansion, when I get it.
If you draft Planeswalker, draft deck with it. If place order marker on Planeswalker, may take turn with any summon instead. Cannot cast or summon if Planeswalker dead.

[igelkott]

This post has the actual rules:
http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=2069707&postcount=79

[Confred]

This post has the actual rules:
http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=2069707&postcount=79
Interesting restraint with Enchantments.
But two major changes were made that I disagree with. Casting only before moving: in AotP you may also cast after moving. Summoning before or after moving: in AotP, you may summon only before moving.

[igelkott]

This post has the actual rules:
http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=2069707&postcount=79
Interesting restraint with Enchantments.
But two major changes were made that I disagree with. Casting only before moving: in AotP you may also cast after moving. Summoning before or after moving: in AotP, you may summon only before moving.

Well, in AOTP you can't cast until after attacking actually, but you're right, those are changes. I don't know if these were intentional or were just misunderstandings of the rules of AOTP. I would just go with the AOTP rules for those.

I don't know why they wanted to restrict enchantments. I would just ignore that.

[chas]

Several people are doing different things with the game. If you look around, you'll find other threads, so you can take from each what you like, or don't like. Any one person claiming that his thread is the "official" way of doing things here in a Question Dump, such as a way of combining the two games, is really only offering you his own variant.

[caps]

If it's not too much trouble could you point us to the specific rules you are referring to? I'm not being lazy, it's just that there are so many threads touching on this subject that I don't know which one has the specific rules you refer to. I am very interested in using AotP as a Heroscape expansion, when I get it.
There's some interesting discussion earlier in the thread. I outlined a basic idea here (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=2065955#post2065955) and we dicussed it for quite a few posts afterwards.

[keglo]

If it's not too much trouble could you point us to the specific rules you are referring to? I'm not being lazy, it's just that there are so many threads touching on this subject that I don't know which one has the specific rules you refer to. I am very interested in using AotP as a Heroscape expansion, when I get it.
There's some interesting discussion earlier in the thread. I outlined a basic idea here (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=2065955#post2065955) and we dicussed it for quite a few posts afterwards.

Thank you capsocrates for going through the trouble. I actually received the game today as a gift from my Wife. My boy and I played our first game tonight using the standard AotP rules. I'll be trying out your ideas soon with Heroscape.

[Confred]

This post has the actual rules:
http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=2069707&postcount=79
Interesting restraint with Enchantments.
But two major changes were made that I disagree with. Casting only before moving: in AotP you may also cast after moving. Summoning before or after moving: in AotP, you may summon only before moving.

Well, in AOTP you can't cast until after attacking actually, but you're right, those are changes. I don't know if these were intentional or were just misunderstandings of the rules of AOTP. I would just go with the AOTP rules for those.

I don't know why they wanted to restrict enchantments. I would just ignore that.
Can definitely cast before attacking. Else combat sorceries would be worthless.
In MtG, precombat : combat : post combat.
In AotP, it's basically the same thing, except instead of tapping to attack, play HS. You may cast before and after, up to a total of 3 spells.

[igelkott]

This post has the actual rules:
http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=2069707&postcount=79
Interesting restraint with Enchantments.
But two major changes were made that I disagree with. Casting only before moving: in AotP you may also cast after moving. Summoning before or after moving: in AotP, you may summon only before moving.

Well, in AOTP you can't cast until after attacking actually, but you're right, those are changes. I don't know if these were intentional or were just misunderstandings of the rules of AOTP. I would just go with the AOTP rules for those.

I don't know why they wanted to restrict enchantments. I would just ignore that.
Can definitely cast before attacking. Else combat sorceries would be worthless.
In MtG, precombat : combat : post combat.
In AotP, it's basically the same thing, except instead of tapping to attack, play HS. You may cast before and after, up to a total of 3 spells.

I wasn't completely clear in what I wrote, sorry. You can indeed cast before moving and after attacking. I meant to point out that you cannot cast between moving and attacking. The way I read your post you implied that you could do that.

Here's the rule from page 6:

You may play spell cards before Action 3 and after Action 4.

[Confred]

I wasn't completely clear in what I wrote, sorry. You can indeed cast before moving and after attacking. I meant to point out that you cannot cast between moving and attacking. The way I read your post you implied that you could do that.


ah yes. Moving and attacking and activating powers (playing HS) is what all is done during the "combat phase" using Magic: the Gathering terminology.

[keglo]

When you place an enchantment card down on an army card, does it last the entire span of the game, unless otherwise stated or negated by another spell?

And is there a limit to how many enchantments an army card can have at any given time?

[Marro_Warlord]

When you place an enchantment card down on an army card, does it last the entire span of the game, unless otherwise stated or negated by another spell?

And is there a limit to how many enchantments an army card can have at any given time?

1. Yes, unless the enchantment is destroyed, by itself or another card, it will stay around until the game ends.

2. No, as of now, an army card can have any number of enchantments at any time.

[keglo]

When you place an enchantment card down on an army card, does it last the entire span of the game, unless otherwise stated or negated by another spell?

And is there a limit to how many enchantments an army card can have at any given time?

1. Yes, unless the enchantment is destroyed, by itself or another card, it will stay around until the game ends.

2. No, as of now, an army card can have any number of enchantments at any time.

Thank you Marro_Warlord!

[Teazia]

The Amazon price on both sets has shot back up to closer to their recent average price, hope you picked up a few sets on the downlow :p

[The B.I.V.]

Got a master set for 12.03 and the booster at 15 or so.... ;)

[TREX]

Got a master set for 12.03 and the booster at 15 or so.... ;)
As did I. I did pay full retail for my first sets of each. But funny enough, all the local places that carry it, its still 29 to 39 bucks.

[The B.I.V.]

That's a good thing. If everyone starts discounting it, it's bye-bye AotP!

[Tornado]

Did we ever get an official ruling on using multiples of the same spell?

Everything I have read states there is no rule against it but there is some mention that it was intended to be limited to one of each spell and is more balanced that way.

[Unhinged Manchild]

Got a master set for 12.03 and the booster at 15 or so.... ;)

Did you get the expansion from a website?

I've been itching to get the expansion sometime soon, the zendikar one. I want to get it under 20 becuase I'm cheap :-)

[The B.I.V.]

Yeah, got it on Amazon.

So, if I have a hidden enchantment that triggers when it's attacked by an opponent's fig, and I leave an engagement, does the engagement strike count as an "attack?" I assume so. But my opponent can choose not to roll an engagement strike, too, correct?

[TREX]

Correct, the lea is considered an attack, but your opponent could choose not to do it.