Proposed Knockback Rules

[IAmBatman]

OK, let me see here. I actually thought about all of your concerns while writing those up, so the answers to your questions should be easy. Tweaking the wording might take a little more.

1) Yes, they're cumulative. Any proposed wording changes to reflect that?

2) I didn't want the penalty to get too big for Small figures. But I suppose to be consistent I should make it so that Small figures without Superstrength add TWO to the number of skulls rolled when counting for Knockback. I'll make that change.

3) The problem with this one is that I don't know what figures larger than Huge would be called. And I want it so they can't be Knockedback (too big), but I guess it wouldn't make sense that they wouldn't Knockback other figures. Maybe when adding on to the bonuses I should say "figures larger than Huge add x skulls?" Or maybe I could just go Huge or larger? What do you think?

[GreyOwl]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

1) Yes, they're cumulative. Any proposed wording changes to reflect that?

How about just adding a sentence after that part saying "These bonuses are cumulative."

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

2) I didn't want the penalty to get too big for Small figures. But I suppose to be consistent I should make it so that Small figures without Superstrength add TWO to the number of skulls rolled when counting for Knockback. I'll make that change.

That would work, I think.

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

3) The problem with this one is that I don't know what figures larger than Huge would be called. And I want it so they can't be Knockedback (too big), but I guess it wouldn't make sense that they wouldn't Knockback other figures. Maybe when adding on to the bonuses I should say "figures larger than Huge add x skulls?" Or maybe I could just go Huge or larger? What do you think?

I would just stick with "larger than Huge" instead of "Huge or larger". That way the official figures are clearly separated from customs that may be larger.

[IAmBatman]

Sounds cool! I'll wait a day or two to see if there are any other issues that crop up, then I'll make another revision. Hopefully it'll only be small stuff this time.

[allskulls]

Just read through these rules. The affects of KB are looking good but are there any plans for KB from ranged attacks? So far it's just Superstrength punches and ramming type attacks. I like the idea of Iron Man or Dr. Doom blasting opponents back or off of elevations.

Also as it is, figures with Superstrength and larger figures have a great advantage in this area, as they should, but with total control of when KB can occur, they will all become undercosted in games against figures without Superstrength and smaller figures.

I think if KB only occurs as a side effect, this won't be a big issue. We just need a way for it to be triggered other than just having Superstrength. My suggestion, as stated earlier, is to have KB happen when an attacker rolls twice as many skulls as a defender rolls shields. The Superstrength figures with still have a bonus but they won't have total control of when it happens.

There really should not be concern about the lower attack figures doing a lot of KB in this way, and it is something that happens. Cap should be able to wack Spidey, or even Iron Man, accross a room. Another concern may be KB happening too much. I'm not sure that it will, but in super powered comic character battles it most definitely should

[GreyOwl]

I think Superstrength should only be a factor for the attacker if it is a normal adjacent attack, which I envision as a punch most of the time. If using a ranged attack or a special attack, I don't think Superstrength should be a factor for the attacker.

[allskulls]

Originally Posted by GreyOwl

I think Superstrength should only be a factor for the attacker if it is a normal adjacent attack, which I envision as a punch most of the time. If using a ranged attack or a special attack, I don't think Superstrength should be a factor for the attacker.

Agreed

[IAmBatman]

Ranged and Special Attacks both? I can see the case for Special Attacks much better than for regular ranged attacks.
If you want, though, I can add another section for Knockback as a Side Effect of Ranged and Special Attacks.
I agree that these rules alter the value of figures, but that's why they're house rules. We need to get some playtesting on them to see if that imbalance is just ridiculous, or if it's not crazy levels and fun enough to be worth it.

[GreyOwl]

I said ranged as well, because I figured a ranged normal attack is not a punch, kick, or something that direct. For example, Iron Man's ranged attack most likely is based on his repulsor beams. Any archer's ranged normal attack represents the arrows. The assumption is that superstrength wouldn't affect these types of attacks, or at least wouldn't affect them as much.

[IAmBatman]

All right, I'll include something for Knock Back as a side effect on ranged and special attacks.
I'll also make that mention of the bonuses being cumulative (forgot to do that last time).

[allskulls]

Originally Posted by allskulls

I think if KB only occurs as a side effect, this won't be a big issue. We just need a way for it to be triggered other than just having Superstrength. My suggestion, as stated earlier, is to have KB happen when an attacker rolls twice as many skulls as a defender rolls shields. The Superstrength figures with still have a bonus but they won't have total control of when it happens.

Consider this to cut down on all the extra rules. One rule for all KB and a simple chart for KB bonuses that will include size and Superstrength. Twice as many skulls as shields causes 1 KB space and add 1 for each extra skull.

Also, there should be no difference between range and adjacent attacks. Most ranged attacks are already weaker but when they are strong it should have the same effect as a close attack.

EDIT: Also, the ramming attack seems like it should be a special ability on certain cards. If everyone can do it, only the big guys will and there is where the imbalance lies.

[IAmBatman]

The Knockback as an attack rules option is there at the bequest of GreyOwl. Whether it gets into the final codex or not is up to you, though, ultimately, as you're the Rules Editor.
I like your chart idea and I'll make those changes for the next run at this.

[GreyOwl]

We can remove it altogether, or we can make the "knockback as an attack" available only to figures above a certain size. I'd be okay with it either way.