Being a rules lawyer

[DoesntCompute]

I am a rules lawyer. I am not obsessive/compulsive about it. I am not obnoxious and in your face about it but I enjoy looking at the rules of a given game and finding cracks to be exploited. I find the current discussions of 'LOS for melee units' and 'Summoning a carrier' fascinating. The cards and rulebook define the physics of the HS universe. Why is it considered bad form to study the science of the game you are playing? It seems to me that most people dislike rules lawyers that are obnoxious because of their obnoxiousness not because of their rules lawyering.

[shakey_snake]

All rules lawyers need to be shot because they ignore major tenets of the game to make themselves look smart.

It's like arguing with 3 year olds.

[maxo-texas]

Use of the rules correctly is important.

Finding very wierd places where the rules are broken is obnoxious.

For example the "bug dance" in space hulk is a massive example of a broken rule that caught on even tho it is completely silly and makes it a lot harder on the marines (as if it wasn't hard enough).

For those who don't know the "bug dance"...

You can put your marine on "overwatch" and it automatically fires when something moves.

So the bug player moves a bug into LOS and then turns left and right repeatedly without moving until it dies or the marine's gun jams.

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The first session we met in Houston, one of the players caught *several* ways that the rules had been misplayed (when pointed out- it was obvious in each case that the rule had been misread). This is not rules lawyering. This is correcting mistakes.

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So yes - I want to play with the correct rules- but I want to play with the correct *spirit of the game* too.

[DoesntCompute]

Originally Posted by shakey_snake

All rules lawyers need to be shot because they ignore major tenets of the game to make themselves look smart.

It's like arguing with 3 year olds.

Explain Shakey. I disagree on first blush but I am curious to hear you expand on the thought. Is your definition of rules lawyer along the lines of, "An obnoxious person who will argue for any reason and just uses the rules of every game played as an excuse to beat you up."

To me, a rules lawyer is a person who tries to read and understand all aspects of the parameters of the game. IMO every poster on this site is a rules lawyer to some degree. We all are trying to understand the rules better because it makes us better players. I have learned many aspects of the game just by reading people's posts here. You don't have to be obnoxious to improve your understanding of the game.

[shakey_snake]

Originally Posted by DoesntCompute

Explain Shakey.

there's no reason to explain. You already know what I'm talking about.

Quit being obnoxious.

so then there was this time that I picked up a rock and threw it into the air.

Upon reflection, that rock took 1,000 years or something to get there.
I bet if rocks could feel, it would be like, "Man... that was the best spot to."

I feel kinda bad for that rock. I felt worse when it landed on my head.

[DoesntCompute]

Originally Posted by maxo-texas

Finding very wierd places where the rules are broken is obnoxious.

I enjoy finding those weird places just because it is fun (like my Grandmother who was a retired English teacher liked to find mispellings in advertisements). Our group will discuss them and laugh at what using the loophole would look like and then go on with our game. Sometimes the quest to find the weird loopholes exposes legitimate aspects of the game that were previously unexplored. For example it may be possible that the designers intended Nilf to be able to break engagement for other units or for units to carry other units when summoned. Without someone asking the question, nobody would have ever discovered that aspect of the game.

[DoesntCompute]

Originally Posted by shakey_snake

there's no reason to explain. You already know what I'm talking about.

Quit being obnoxious.

Edited to avoid flaming...

Wasn't trying to be obnoxious. I haven't encountered the people like you described and I was curious. End of comment.

Originally Posted by DoesntCompute

Edited to avoid flaming...

Wasn't trying to be obnoxious. I haven't encountered the people like you described and I was curious. End of comment.

I disagree you have to play test shakey and not just test him in your mind before you can give a good analises of how he plays. No playtesting is not good enough! I want you to mindtest and playtest him! Give good reasins about how shakey peforms or keep your shakey oppions to yourself!

[Celtic_Ghost]

Well this is a loaded question with a "no win" answer directive.

Reason: Simple. It's because although every game has its particular "physics" a.k.a game mechanics that dictate the basic function of that game, no game has enough rules to govern all of the possibilities that humans can conceive to imitate. Some games try to cover all the bases, but it is still a futile attempt. Now, since each person playing any given game has a specific IQ and personal perspective of "how it should work" then a LOT of common sense rules in a game are "misconstrued" to fit that specific individuals perspective. So, "rules lawyering" becomes a necessity on many occasions to help facilitate fair play and keep a game fun and moving.

Now, the downside to the "rules lawyer" is those that have weak social skills coupled with isolated mental psychosis yet a workable intelligence. These types like to use their "knowledge of the rules" to dominate their opponents or awe spectators for various reasons of satisfaction that stem from their lack of social tact. Sometimes they are funny, sometimes interesting, but most of the time just aggravating.

I think it makes the world an interesting place, and like I said, there is no solution for "How is the best way to interpret rules, Should we have rules lawyers, etc.?"

They really are pointless questions, but worthy of good discussion.

[DoesntCompute]

Originally Posted by ultradoug

I disagree you have to play test shakey and not just test him in your mind before you can give a good analises of how he plays. No playtesting is not good enough! I want you to mindtest and playtest him! Give good reasins about how shakey peforms or keep your shakey oppions to yourself!

Huh?

The UD option - completely unrelated to the question <---
dont add this if you dont want me to do this next time.
now, do you want my serous thoughts on this issue?