Warmachine and Hordes General

[Bothi]

Hey everyone, Bothi here! First and foremost, I am aware that there is a Warmahordes thread already. I thought it fit to start a new one, as that thread is nearly a year dead, not including my single necro post that stirred no activity.

For those of you that don't know, Warmachine and Hordes are two miniatures wargames by Privateer Press that use the same general rule system and can be played with or against each other, or as separate games. I would highly advise anyone that enjoys Heroscape to at least consider Warmahordes (what the games are often referred to as a pair).

Warmahordes and Heroscape have a few distinct differences and some similarities, as would be expected. Both games have a emphasis on individual figures, unlike larger scale games such as Warhammer 40,000. Every figure lost is a (relatively) dramatic one, and there is an emphasis on individual figures' special abilities. Warmahordes is however, in many ways, more complicated than Heroscape. In Warmahordes, there is no real board, but rather a table or space set up with any terrain that the players feel like using (unlike Heroscape, where only licensed or skillfully made custom terrain will look right and fit on the board). Figures move in inches, using a tape measure, rather than along marked tiles on the board. In Warmahordes and Heroscape alike there is no real character customization (meaning interchangeable weapons, armor, etc., not meaning painting), but in Warmahordes the figures do each have different weapons which have their own stats. For those of you that do not enjoy creative artsy stuff, Warmahordes may not be for you, as figures come unassembled and unpainted.

The one MAJOR difference between Warmahordes and Heroscape is the endgame mechanic. In Heroscape, the goal is (normally) to kill all or as many of your opponents figures as you can. In Warmahordes, the ultimate way to (normally) win is to kill your opponents army leader. The 'Warlock' in Hordes or the 'Warcaster' in Warmachine. In Warmahordes, even if you haven't damaged a single figure but their leader, and their leader dies, you (normally) win. Both Heroscape and Warmahordes may be played with premade or custom scenarios that alter or add on to the endgame mechanic.

In Heroscape, pieces are from random times and settings and can all be used with one another, but in Warmahordes, you are restricted to only using figures of your 'Faction'. As of my writing this, there are 5 Warmachine factions and 4 Hordes factions. Both Hordes and Warmachine have an available mercenary-type faction, whose figures can be used with any other faction. It is also worth noting that in Warmahordes figures are typically purchased individually, not including the Warmahordes equivalent of squads and the "Battleboxes".

Battleboxes are one or two player Starter sets with enough figures for, well, one or two players. There is a one player Battlebox for every faction besides mercenaries, whereas there are only 2 two player Battleboxes. The two player Battlebox for Warmachine includes figures for the Khador and Protectorate of Menoth factions, while the Hordes two player Battlebox includes figures for the Legion of Everblight and Circle Orboros factions. I would very strongly recommend picking up a two player Battlebox if it includes a faction you are interested in playing rather than a single player Battlebox. Two player Battleboxes average $100, and single player $50. At first this may not seem like a spectacular deal, but the two player Battleboxes include more figures for each faction than the single player Battleboxes, and includes the full rules, whereas the single player only includes 'Quickstart/Basic' rules. The full rules as a paperback book is $30 new, making this a tremendous deal for anyone that is splitting the cost with a friend. Or you could attempt to sell the unwanted other faction at a greatly reduced price, and I can guarantee someone will want them. Also, if you decide to pick up the Hordes two player Battlebox, and do not want Legion of Everblight, I will buy them off of you so long as you keep them in near-mint condition. Warmahordes is a great choice in tabletop gaming for Heroscape fans looking for a more in-depth and active game.

So does anyone here play or is interested? I'd be happy to accept all questions, but do not know as much about Hordes as I do Warmachine.

Below are the Quick-Start or 'Basic' rules for Warmachine and Hordes respectively, as made free for download by Privateer Press. Please note that clicking either of these links will download a .PDF file to your computer. I give my word that it is completely safe.

Spoiler Alert!

Warmachine Quick-Start Rules

Hordes Quick-Start Rules

[greygnarl]

I tried to get my family into it, but we only played a couple games.

I have Shae, Meg, a Bucanneer, a Freebooter, and a Mariner.

My brother has the Menoth Starter set.

I also have a Spriggan and 2 Winterguard from Khador.

[Bothi]

Originally Posted by greygnarl

I tried to get my family into it, but we only played a couple games.

I have Shae, Meg, a Bucanneer, a Freebooter, and a Mariner.

My brother has the Menoth Starter set.

I also have a Spriggan and 2 Winterguard from Khador.

My army currently consists of the Protectorate of Menoth Starter, a few various 'jacks, and a Choir. Did you like what you did play of it?

[greygnarl]

Yeah, I jsut need someone to actually play it with.

[Bothi]

Originally Posted by greygnarl

Yeah, I jsut need someone to actually play it with.

I gotcha. That would be a major turnoff for me as well, but I live right next to a game shop with a decent Warmahordes playing population.

[orgsbane]

Saw this down at Gebcon, and I really wanted it. The 2 Player box was selling a discounted price, $80s. I would a gotten it ha I not just spent all my money . If I find someone to play it with, I will most definitely buy some. Looks like a whole lotta fun. Until then...

[Bothi]

Originally Posted by orgsbane

Saw this down at Gebcon, and I really wanted it. The 2 Player box was selling a discounted price, $80s. I would a gotten it ha I not just spent all my money . If I find someone to play it with, I will most definitely buy some. Looks like a whole lotta fun. Until then...

Although this will likely dishearten your local game shop owners, I highly advise picking up at least your starter box from Miniature Market if you do decide to take the dive. The 2 Player variety is here and here. They are $74.99 each before shipping, and depending on where you live, the total will average around $80! They do carry all the other starter boxes as well as most of the units/'jacks/beasts.

[Robotech Master]

I've been playing both games for around 2 years now, just after MK II was launched.

Currently have full armies for:
Legion of Everblight (my primary force)
Circle Orboros
Cryx
Cygnar
Protectorate of Menoth
Retribution of Scyrah
Minions: Blindwater Congregation.

We have a fairly competitive meta in our area that comprises 5 game stores and anywhere from 2-4 tournaments per month. Our press gangers also put together a bi-annual regional tournament.

[AMIS]

Snip

[Bothi]

Originally Posted by Robotech Master

I've been playing both games for around 2 years now, just after MK II was launched.

Currently have full armies for:
Legion of Everblight (my primary force)
Circle Orboros
Cryx
Cygnar
Protectorate of Menoth
Retribution of Scyrah
Minions: Blindwater Congregation.

I'm impressed. I have a sizable Protectorate army, but that is about it. We have three shops with a decent player-base, but I only frequent one. I plan on picking up Legion soon, starting with the 2 Player Starter Box. I want to be lesser-heavy, think you could suggest me a 'lock?

[Robotech Master]

Originally Posted by Bothi

I'm impressed. I have a sizable Protectorate army, but that is about it. We have three shops with a decent player-base, but I only frequent one. I plan on picking up Legion soon, starting with the 2 Player Starter Box. I want to be lesser-heavy, think you could suggest me a 'lock?

Some of my armies are more sizable than others, and there are a few things in each faction that I haven't picked up because I either think they aren't that great or have no intent to play them.

With Legion I have practically everything except Grotesques (in deep need of a UA to make them better), Scather Crew (made obsolete by the Ravagore), Archers (made obsolete by Striders), and Teraph (mostly made obsolete by Naga).

If you're really intent on going lesser-heavy, your best bet is Thagrosh the Messiah (Thagrosh2). His feat works well with Shredders who used Rabid that turn, since they will still be considered Rabid for their mini-turn. Also, if you cast Manifest Destiny, that will still be in play during the mini-turn. It results in all of your Shredders getting to move and make an extra attack with 4 dice to hit and 4 dice to damage, dropping the lowest from each.

I would suggest investing mostly in Shredders with some Harriers and Stingers. Harriers can be fielded, but Stingers are best suited for being created by spawning vessels, so I would suggest picking up that.

I don't think anyone else really handles lesser spam as well as Thagrosh2 does; Legion of Everblight really loves their heavy warbeasts and thrives based on how powerful and fast they are with their mix of ranged and melee combat.

While Thagrosh2 can make it sorta happen, it's not strictly a very competitive list; way too many hard counters where accurate of even auto-hitting low POW attacks end up doing a lot of damage to lessers where bigger beasts would shrug them off. Inserting a decent troop screen and some heavies puts you on a more competitive level. Depends on what point value you think you'll be playing mostly.

The upcoming Beast Mistress may be an interesting inclusion in some other warlock lists; she's like a mini warlock that can only run lessers; she's not out yet though, I can't tell you how effective her a flock of lessers might be.

[Bothi]

Originally Posted by Robotech Master

*Snip*
I don't think anyone else really handles lesser spam as well as Thagrosh2 does; Legion of Everblight really loves their heavy warbeasts and thrives based on how powerful and fast they are with their mix of ranged and melee combat.

While Thagrosh2 can make it sorta happen, it's not strictly a very competitive list; way too many hard counters where accurate of even auto-hitting low POW attacks end up doing a lot of damage to lessers where bigger beasts would shrug them off. Inserting a decent troop screen and some heavies puts you on a more competitive level. Depends on what point value you think you'll be playing mostly.

The upcoming Beast Mistress may be an interesting inclusion in some other warlock lists; she's like a mini warlock that can only run lessers; she's not out yet though, I can't tell you how effective her a flock of lessers might be.

Thanks a ton for the advice, and Thag2 was the 'lock in mind, but reassurance from an experienced player is always great

EDIT: My group usually plays 35 point games due to time constraints and wanting to get multiple games into a night, with rare 50's thrown in, if that changes anything.