Does a melee attack need LOS? Luck? or Liquor?

[netherspirit]

But the FAQ says that engaged figures don't need LOS.

So the question is really, do Nif's wings stop them from being engaged.

Also, check your PM's shakey.

[shakey_snake]

Ah, the FAQ.

LOS doesn't determine engagement. The two concepts aren't even in the same section together.
So, they are engaged.

H_E_H's suggestion for the win!

[toddrew]

I don't know if anyone else already did, but I submitted the question of whether Nilf's wings disrupt engagement to hasbro.

[netherspirit]

Awesome, toddrew, can't wait to hear what they say.

[TheRealQ]

Wow, great thread. I don't own Nilf yet so I went out to Hasbro.com to check out his wings. According to the picture on the site his wings can't be targeted. I wonder if this is to represent that his wings are inpenetrable or that they don't possess a large enough percentage of living material to matter.

Another thing to consider that is a major difference between Nilf and the ruins is that Nilf represents an animate creature and the ruin is a static ediface. Under no mundane concept would the ruin ever move out of the way whereas Nilf's wing has to potential move if it were truly animate.

This is one situation where there seems to be more questions than answers...specially with there being a possible conflict in ruling between different entries in the rulebook and FAQ. As such I can't decide on either side of this argument and look forward to whatever the ruling is from Hasbro.

[toddrew]

Originally Posted by TheRealQ

Wow, great thread. I don't own Nilf yet so I went out to Hasbro.com to check out his wings. According to the picture on the site his wings can't be targeted. I wonder if this is to represent that his wings are inpenetrable or that they don't possess a large enough percentage of living material to matter.

I'll have to check the official site - I thought that Nilf's wings were red on the card. I've had RV for a week, but tonight will be the first chance to play him.

EDIT: yeah, clearly from the site, both Braxas and Nilf don't have their wings included as hit zones. I wonder what the rationale is for some figures to have their wings included and not others.

EDIT of the EDIT: and clearly from the cards in hand - their wings are hitzones

[daevablacc]

I have no doubt they are ENGAGED because body parts are never mentioned as an exception. Also, in LOS all you need is any teensy bit of targetable area exposed to attack. So, it would be consistant that since the wing is not a solid wall and does allow some slight access underneath that they should be able to attack each other.

Also, IMO it would be "ridiculously stupid" for them to not be able to attack due to what TheRealQ mentioned regarding the wing not being a static object.


My prediction: Hasbro will rule them engaged and able to attack despite having the MILF between them.

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

Originally Posted by daevablacc

I have no doubt they are ENGAGED because body parts are never mentioned as an exception. Also, in LOS all you need is any teensy bit of targetable area exposed to attack. So, it would be consistant that since the wing is not a solid wall and does allow some slight access underneath that they should be able to attack each other.

Also, IMO it would be "ridiculously stupid" for them to not be able to attack due to what TheRealQ mentioned regarding the wing not being a static object.


My prediction: Hasbro will rule them engaged and able to attack despite having the MILF between them.

You know where I stand on this - I think Sully and Greek are engaged and may attack.

The iffy, balancing-in-favor-of-the-other rulling is if the Greek cannot see any part of Johnny - and I don't think there is any LOS available to the death defying Greek.
Sure LOS is not needed for engaged figures, but in this instance, I could see it coming down to this descrepancy being the deciding factor.

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

Originally Posted by toddrew

I'll have to check the official site - I thought that Nilf's wings were red on the card. I've had RV for a week, but tonight will be the first chance to play him.

EDIT: yeah, clearly from the site, both Braxas and Nilf don't have their wings included as hit zones. I wonder what the rationale is for some figures to have their wings included and not others.

Braxas and Nilfheim's target zones are completely red on their cards.

That is funky that the official site has otherwise! But not entirely surprising...

[Teamski]

If the greek cannot attack Johnny (as is the case here) they would not be engaged. I don't see how this would ever be the case. A ruin does not allow 2 units to be engaged unless they can see over it at eachother. I must be missing something here. Johnny should be free to attack someone he is not engaged with in this example.....

-Ski

[shakey_snake]

Originally Posted by Teamski

A ruin does not allow 2 units to be engaged unless they can see over it at eachother.

I'm afraid that is incorrect. Me-Burq-sa (height of 7) and DW9K (height 7) are engaged with each other when on opposite sides of a ruin (height of 6), even though neither of them can see each other. The rulebook is fairly explict about that.

Height determines engagement. LOS does not.

Can they attack each other? The FAQ and Rulebook disagree on that. The rulebook says that all figures must have LOS to attack, the FAQ states that melee figures do not.

Originally Posted by netherspirit

They are adjacent, but are they engaged? Thats the question.

Adjacent does not always equal engaged. As my post above, there are 2 exceptions, height and a ruin between them.

I (once again) disagree.

Adjacent always = engaged.
if there is a height difference or a ruin between two short figures, they are "next to" each other, but neither adjacent or engaged.
Re-read the first paragraph under "ENGAGEMENT RULES" on page 12 (page 6 for the PDF)

[Oprime]

I will be interested in what hasbro has to say.
Thanks toddrew.