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  #169  
Old December 22nd, 2011, 11:11 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Cat ~ Design Phase

After re-reading the last few pages, I think these are the best options:
- My original version:
Quote:
BAD LUCK AURA
When an opponent's figure within 3 clear sight spaces of Black Cat rolls the 20 sided die, you may subtract 2 from the roll. When an opponent's figure within 3 clear sight spaces of Black Cat rolls attack dice, if all dice rolled are skulls, the opposing player's turn immediately ends and the attacked figure receives no wounds.
I like this version because it is more likely to affect minor characters such as Street Thugs and Cops, typical enemies of Black Cat as she attempts to steal something, but the power loses probability of occurence as an attacker's number of dice goes up. Although Black Cat did sometimes take on heavy hitters. In her bio on Marvel's wiki, she was once nearly killed by Sabretooth, then later defeated him.


- Version 2:
Quote:
BAD LUCK 13
Any time Black Cat would receive 1 or more wounds from a normal attack, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, the attacking figure receives one wound instead.
It's simple, and unlucky. All figures have the same probability of this happening to them. Only affects Black Cat, ie - not an aura. One suggestion made by Hahma, I think, was to have the bad luck power also affect adjacent friendlies. This would fit the theme of Black Cat, particularly if the friendly was Spider-man. Black Cat's actions often were attempts to protect Spidey. So if we were to go this route, I'd want it to trigger when the adjacent friendly is attacked.


- Version 3:
Quote:
BAD LUCK AURA
When an Order Marker is revealed on an Army Card, you may choose a figure from that Army Card that is within 3 clear sight spaces of Black Cat. Immediately roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 13 or higher, the chosen figure subtracts 1 from its Move and Attack this turn.
I like this one a lot, too. A bit more tricky since for a squad figure, you'd have to remember which figure you picked to receive the hex. Not overly tricky, but unusual.


I think I'd like to go with the alternate version of number 2:
Quote:
BAD LUCK 13
Any time Black Cat or an adjacent friendly figure would receive 1 or more wounds from a normal attack, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, the attacking figure receives one wound instead.
Since it only triggers on Normal Attacks, it (hopefully) isn't too powerful.

Thoughts?


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  #170  
Old December 22nd, 2011, 11:15 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Cat ~ Design Phase

I kind of worry about her being more powerful than Loki or Batman there ... but the normal attack restriction makes it work, I think. So, yeah, I'd favor #2, but I don't know if I like it working for adjacent figures and doubling up on things like that and Evasive Strike, etc.


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  #171  
Old December 22nd, 2011, 11:17 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Cat ~ Design Phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
I kind of worry about her being more powerful than Loki or Batman there ... but the normal attack restriction makes it work, I think. So, yeah, I'd favor #2, but I don't know if I like it working for adjacent figures and doubling up on things like that and Evasive Strike, etc.
My thoughts exactly. Maybe instead of an auto wound, an unblockable attack die rolled against the attacking figure?


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  #172  
Old December 23rd, 2011, 06:37 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Cat ~ Design Phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by tcglkn View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
I kind of worry about her being more powerful than Loki or Batman there ... but the normal attack restriction makes it work, I think. So, yeah, I'd favor #2, but I don't know if I like it working for adjacent figures and doubling up on things like that and Evasive Strike, etc.
My thoughts exactly. Maybe instead of an auto wound, an unblockable attack die rolled against the attacking figure?
I like that. It's only %50 chance on a wound, on top of needing to roll a 13+.


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  #173  
Old December 23rd, 2011, 08:07 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Cat ~ Design Phase

Would get too confusing to be rolling attack dice your opponent's turn (the dreaded turn interruption!). That's why we stick to the d20.


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  #174  
Old December 23rd, 2011, 08:41 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Cat ~ Design Phase

As much as I like using 13, we could up that number...or up Black Cat's cost.


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  #175  
Old December 23rd, 2011, 09:27 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Cat ~ Design Phase

13+ is still only 40% - which is less than an unblockable attack die.


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  #176  
Old December 23rd, 2011, 09:45 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Cat ~ Design Phase

Quote:
BAD LUCK 13
Any time Black Cat or an adjacent friendly figure would receive 1 or more wounds from a normal attack by a figure within 5 clear sight spaces of Black Cat, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, the attacking figure receives one wound instead.
Maybe confining the distance from the affected figure can help tone it down some. It would still affect Thugs and the like with ranges of 5 or less, but be bypassed by a lot of other figures.

Dishing only one wound on a roll of 13 or higher in those more limited situation isn't that terrible. There are other lower cost units that can do worse.

Also, being able to affect an adjacent figure shouldn't be too bad either. She doesn't have bonding, so it's not going to be a slam dunk that she's going to be adjacent to friendlies all the time. If someone uses an OM to move her adjacent to a friendly figure for Bad Luck 13 to protect them instead of attacking an opponent's figure, that could bite them later on. Not to mention, the opponent may have means of bypassing the power. Also, by restricting it to 5 clear sight spaces from Black Cat, an opponent can still attack a figure adjacent to Black Cat and be 5 spaces from the adjacent figure, but 6 spaces from Black Cat, or be closer but have clear sight on the adjacent figure but is obscured from Black Cat's clear sight. So to me, I think it adds some nice decision making and available options for both players and that's a winning combination for a good design.


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  #177  
Old December 23rd, 2011, 10:11 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Cat ~ Design Phase

That would still make her a better evasive striker than Batman, in a way.

However, with a drop to like 3 defense, it would be acceptable I think.


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  #178  
Old December 23rd, 2011, 10:39 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Cat ~ Design Phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by Margloth View Post
That would still make her a better evasive striker than Batman, in a way.

However, with a drop to like 3 defense, it would be acceptable I think.
Batman's Evasive Strike works against all attacks, not just normal attacks. So for instance, a figure like Huntress has to risk Evasive Strike with her Crossbow double attack of 3 from up to it's 5 space range as well as her Crossbow double attack of 5 when she's exactly 2 spaces away. Bad Luck doesn't work against that and she'd be getting killed really quick.

Bats also has a ranged special attack that he can use against 3 targets, a normal attack of 5 and can grapple to high places whenever he wants. He can move into battle and throw 3 B-Rangs before the Thugs or whoever get to fight back if there are any left alive, while Black Cat at best can move into battle and attack 1 Thug before getting blasted. So in that regard, Batman's offensive threat helps protect him from even having to roll for Evasive Strike sometimes. Even if she keeps her defense of 5 and the new Bad Luck 13, she's still not nearly 150 point unit IMO, maybe 130.

Also, from the SP, she really doesn't have much else going for her that makes her an offensive threat. No ranged attack, no multiple attacks. No grapple. And stealing a glyph is very situational. There are a lot of figures that don't lose their glyphs unless destroyed, so you have to count on either going against a figure that starts out with a glyph that can be taken away, or hope that someone picks up an e-glyph so you can take it.

So ultimately she's a melee unit with an attack of 4 and has 4 lives. She has a nice movement ability to get height and maybe an attack of 5 sometimes. But she doesn't have any synergy or bonding to make her one of those tag along pain in the butt units.

Her Bad Luck is the main power that will help her have at least some kind of threat, and even at that, it can be easily bypassed. And even if not bypassed, she has a 60% chance of failing the roll and can have a couple bad defense rolls and be toast.

Quote:
Black Cat
Felicia Hardy

Human
Thief
Seductive
Medium 4

Life 4
Move 6
Range 1
Attack 4
Defense 5

Points 150

CAT BURGLAR
Black Cat can move through all figures and never takes leaving engagement attacks. After moving and before attacking, if there is not a glyph on this card, you may choose a figure that Black Cat moved through this turn with an Equipment Glyph on its card and place that glyph on this card.

EXPERT CLIMBING
When counting spaces for Black Cat's movement, elevation changes up to 2 levels count as one space. You may ignore Black Cat's height of 4 when climbing. Black Cat never takes falling damage or major falling damage.

BAD LUCK AURA
When an opponent's figure within 3 clear sight spaces of Black Cat rolls the 20 sided die, you may subtract 2 from the roll. When an opponent's figure within 3 clear sight spaces of Black Cat rolls attack dice, if all dice rolled are skulls, the opposing player's turn immediately ends and the attacked figure receives no wounds.


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  #179  
Old December 23rd, 2011, 11:26 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Cat ~ Design Phase

I'm cool with the roll at 13 and it being an auto wound and the current trigger (only works if she'd take a wound). It being only against normal attacks does a lot to restrict it, like Hahma says.

I'm iffy on the adjacency for power stacking reasons ... but I could ultimately go either way there.


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  #180  
Old December 23rd, 2011, 11:39 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Cat ~ Design Phase

Could you elaborate on "power stacking reasons?" I think I'm not quite sure what you mean, and what it has to do with a friendly adjacent figure.


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