The Book of Winter Soldier

[IAmBatman]

This passes to Sanctum playtesting. You should have plenty of time to grab this guy, Tickle, as I'm in no hurry to pick him up and hopefully Griff is looking at the vehicle rules before anything else in the World War Winter set.

[Hahma]

I've got armies picked out for the first army test. Don't know when I'll get to it but it's my next test to be done.

[IAmBatman]

Cool. Thanks, Hahma.

[Hahma]

No problem Bats. The wife took the kids to Target, so I ran army test 1 and just finished. Winter Soldier is pretty baddass. He had Cap(C3G) as his first mark and one shotted him with a 3 x2 = 6 skull vs. 1 shield attack. Then came back and had Hawkeye as his mark but only put 1 wound on him but went into Stasis after Elektra killed Hawkeye with a 3/0 attack. Then W.S. came back and named Green Goblin as his mark but only put final wound on him with a 4 x 2 = 8 skull attack that destroyed both GG and his Glider with that huge overkill die roll. W.S. was the only one left after that so no more Stasis, but he was going against 3 wound Giant Man and 2 wound Buckey and finished them both off and ended up with 2 wounds himself.

What really helped him was the OM flex of Ninjas and all the other Assassins going against all heroes. Hawkeye had a somewhat better showing taking out 3 Ninja with one shot and could have done some damage to Bullseye with acid arrow but his 3 skull roll was blocked. There was only 1 ninja left for much of the game but I just used him as Kingpin on OM1 for the rest of the game to give flex but gave out other OMs to heroes in case that ninja died, but he was hiding good in SZ.

There were plenty of other distractions to mess up the opponent for awhile and Cap going down early messed things up for them. Boomerang had another good showing as his Return Boomerang was nice. He's a good lower-priced counter to Green Goblin as Goblin Glider doesn't affect Boomerang's normal attack because he flies.

I'll try Winter Soldier against a squad bonding army. I would think that it would make a difference with him having to duck bullets from several attacks.

I'll get this report typed up later sometime.

[IAmBatman]

Cool. I'm hoping to take Storm and Gambit both for spins later tonight to check them out before their release in December, but I'm all about Lions for the next couple of hours.

[Hahma]

C3G INITIAL PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT WINTER SOLDIER

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
PASS

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
PASS

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
PASS

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit too powerful or too weak.
PASS

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
FAIL - I think that the special attack of 4 is too powerful when used against his Mark. Possible 8 skull attacks are too high for a mid-level unit like this. He becomes a huge focus and fear for the opponent who will want to hide his Marked unit. If that unit is Superman or Thor, that's pretty huge. Though Supes can reach WS pretty quick, WS at 230 points can have 2 squads of Ninja to run interference. Also, Winter Soldier would likely be part of a Kingpin build with lots of other distractions for heroes and OM flex to counter the opponent, or he could be part of a Ninja/Assassin build that is growing and becoming a force where he can have meat shields and OM flex. Granted both Army tests were close, I think that being able to lay down a 6 or 8 skull attack from 10 spaces is kind of too much for his thematic level. Perhaps if the special were 3, or even keep it at 4 but add 2 dice if he doesn't move so he can max out at 6 skulls but average 3 instead of averaging 4 and having super HH killing potential. I kind of like adding 2 dice better than lowering it to 3 so that the special is still useful if he does move even if it's only 4 dice.

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
PASS –

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
PASS

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
PASS .

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
PASS –
- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
PASS - .

Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? .YES
- What should be the unit's point value? 250 + (taking other things into consideration)
- Give a brief overview. ..Well, Winter Soldier did over 360 points of damage between full one-shot kill on Cap, a couple wounds on Hawkeye, 1 wound on Green Goblin and a wound on Giant Man. Being in a Ninja/Assassin army was huge in order to let WS get to position early and offer support and other deadly units for the opponent to deal with. In retrospect, Cap could have stayed hidden and tried to lure WS into a bad position, but he was trying to boost his Avenger teammates, though that early on, they weren’t in position to need boosting. So perhaps GG could have led off with Hawkeye’s support. That could have changed things and is why I’m not freaking out with this result. Not to mention the 6/1 one-shot kill of Cap could have been partially blocked to keep Cap alive and change things.
Map: .Custom.
Units: .Winter Soldier (230) Ninja x 2 (170) Bullseye (175) Elektra (170) and Boomerang (130) for 875 points Vs. C3G Captain America (240) Green Goblin (230) Giant Man (180) Hawkeye (160) and Bucky (60) for 870 points .

Spoiler Alert!

Winter Soldier names Cap as his Mark.

R1 – Bucky and Cap move, moving WS 2 spaces.
Ninja have Winter Soldier move toward hill and Ninja move to support him.
Giant Man moves
Ninja have Winter Soldier move onto hill but rock is blocking Cap from WS’s sights. Ninja move.
Hawkeye moves and rolls 3 skulls for Triple Shot and kills 3 Ninja!
Ninja have Bullseye move and he puts 1 wound on Giant Man, while Ninja hang back.

R2 - Bucky moves and kills a Ninja with Machine Gun, then Cap moves and kills another Ninja and puts 2 wounds on Bullseye with Shield Throw. W.S. had moved 2.
Last Ninja has WS attack Cap with Marked For Death and he rolls 3 skulls x 2 for 6 total vs. Cap’s 1 shield to one-shot kill Cap. Place WS in Stasis.
Green Goblin moves.
Ninja has Bullseye attack and miss Giant Man and last Ninja stays in hiding.
Hawkeye moves and attacks Bullseye with Acid Arrow but his 3 skull roll is blocked.
Ninja has Boomerang move and attack Bucky and after missing with the initial throw, the Returning Boomerang put 2 wounds on Bucky when he was looking the other way.

R3 - Winter Soldier comes back and names Hawkeye his Mark.
Ninja has Winter Soldier put 1 wound on Hawkeye and Ninja retreats further.
Giant Man moves onto shadow space and puts 2 wounds on Bullseye.
Winter Soldier puts 1 more wound on Hawkeye.
Hawkeye reveals OM and WS moves 2 spaces. Hawkeye then moves behind central rock formation to hide from WS and misses Bullseye with Adamantium Arrow.
Elektra moves and throws her sai through Hawkeye’s heart and kills him with a 3/0 attack . Winter Soldier moves back into Stasis.
Green Goblin moves and misses Bullseye.

R4 - Winter Solder comes back and names Green Goblin as his Mark.
Giant Man moves adjacent to both Boomerang and Elektra and misses Elektra.
Ninja has WS attack Green Goblin’s hand sticking out from behind a rock and misses.
Green Goblin reveals OM to move WS 2 Spaces and then GG kills Bullseye with Pumpkin Bomb and puts 1 wound on Elektra with normal attack.
Winter Soldier misses Green Goblin.
Green Goblin misses normal attack vs. Elektra
Elektra uses Deadly Barrage to put 1 wound on Giant Man but misses Green Goblin.

R5 - Giant Man leaves engagement from Boomerang for 0W and puts 1 wound on Winter Soldier.
Ninja has Boomerang put 1 wound on Green Goblin with normal attack, then Ninja moves to height and attacks Giant Man but misses.
Green Goblin reveals OM for WS to move 2 and he takes 1 LE wound from Giant Man. GG misses Elektra with PB but puts 2 wounds on her with normal attack and height.
Boomerang moves and puts 1 more wound on Green Goblin.
GG reveal OM for WS to move 2 and GG PB’s Boomerang for 2 wounds and then misses him with normal attack.
Winter Soldier moves to height and puts 1 wound on Giant Man.

R6 - Giant Man moves and kills last Ninja.
Ninja dead no turn.
GG reveals OM to move WS 2 and GG misses Boomerang with PB and puts 3rd wound on him with normal attack.
Boomerang attacks GG with height and misses, but GG wasn’t paying attention when the Returning Boomerang hits him for 2 wounds.
GG reveal OM and WS move 2, then GG kills pesky Boomerang with PB and then kills Elektra with normal attack.
Winter Soldier has GG in his sights and rolls 4 skulls for MFD for total of 8 skulls and GG only rolled 1 shield and only had one life left to give and died.

Who won and how many wounds did they have? .Winter Soldier with 2 wounds survives to win on T1R8. .

Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? .PASS
- What should be the unit's point value? 240 +
- Give a brief overview..Winter Soldier killed 2 Scouts and put first 3 wounds on Ronan with MFD for total of 240 points killed, he could have done more with better support perhaps and did well considering going against ranged multi attackers that were mobile on a map with buildings.. While he wasn’t as dominant as in the other test, he didn’t have a great deal of firepower support as KP and Joker were hanging back most of the time until the end. Joker’s RC did help team’s efforts, though there were so many Kree to deal with and Flash as well. Clayface killed a bunch of Scouts but that’s it other than 1 wound on Flash. Hired Guns weren’t having much luck, but they were often attacking units on height.
Map: .HYDRA Base Gehenna.
Units: .. Winter Soldier (230) Kingpin (220) Clayface (240) Joker (190) and Hired Guns (130) for 1010 points. Vs. Ronan (360) Kree Scouts x 10 (400) and Flash (250) for 1010 points.

Spoiler Alert!

Winter Soldier names Ronan as his Mark and Ronan names Clayface as his Accused.

R1 2 Kree Scouts move.
Winter Soldier moves toward ladder and Kingpin moves.
Kree Scout moves to top of structure and another Scout moves to opening under enemy structure and attacks and misses Winter Soldier.
Winter Soldier climbs to top of ladder and attacks Scout but misses, then KP moves.
Scout uses Kree Tactical Teleport to bring 2 Scouts next to him and puts 1 wound on Winter Soldier on opposite structure. Other Scout moves around outside corner of enemy structure and puts 2 wounds on Kingpin.
Kinpin has Clayface kill the Scout that wounded him and Clayface Gets Into Character. KP moves.

R2 Joker used Reorganized Chaos to take OM X and 2 from Scouts to put them on Ronan to hopefully flush him out for WS. Clayface kills another Scout.
Scout brings 2 Scouts topside with teleport, misses attack on Winter Soldier.
KP has Winter Soldier move topside and kill a Scout on other structure.
Ronan moves.
KP has Clayface kill another Scout.
Scout misses Winter Soldier and second Scout teleports 2 Scouts topside.

R3 Joker has Reorganized Chaos take OM 2 from Scout to put on Ronan and OM 3 from Scout to put on Flash. KP has Winter Soldier kill a Scout and KP stays put.
Kree Scout kills a Hired Gun and second Scout misses Winter Soldier.
KP has Clayface move toward enemy SZ.
Ronan moves under friendly structure out of WS’s sight.
KP has Clayface move onto enemy ladder and kill a Scout on top of it.
Flash moves to shadow space in center of map.

R4 Reorganized Chaos has Joker remove OM1 and X from Flash and put them on Ronan. KP has Hired Guns move and attack Flash in Shadow and miss and then they miss a Kree Scout.
Ronan moves to shadow space.
KP has Winter Soldier put 3 wounds on Ronan with MFD roll of 3 x 2=6 skulls vs. 3 shields.
Kree Scout teleports Ronan and another Scout adjacent to him and attacks Winter Soldier with a +1 bonus from Ronan and puts 2nd wound on him. Then second Kree turn has the other Scout brought in adjacent to Ronan attack WS and he kills him with a 4/1 attack. (maximizing his +1 boost from Ronan).
KP has Hired Guns attack and miss Ronan.
Scout with height kills Hired Gun, then Ronan moves down and kills another Hired Gun.

R5 Flash moves adjacent to KP and Joker and puts 1 wound on KP (3)
KP has last Hired Gun move and attack w/height vs. Flash but he misses, then KP misses Flash.
Scout misses last Hired Gun and then Ronan rolls 4 skulls against the last Hired Gun but the Hired Gun was on single space height and rolls all 4 shields!
KP has last Hired Gun attack with height against Ronan but he misses, then KP misses Flash.
Scout misses HG again but this time Ronan takes care of the Hired Loser.
KP has Clayface move toward Ronan and KP misses Flash.

R6 Flash moves around to height and kills KP with a 5/1 smash.
KP dead no turn.
Scout and Ronan move toward Joker.
KP dead no turn.
Scout teleports 2 other Scouts adjacent to him and Ronan puts 1 wound on Joker.
Joker misses Ronan with a 3/3 WHA attack.

R7 Joker takes OM’s 2 and 3 from Scout card and puts them on Ronan’s and puts 1 wound (4) on Ronan with WHA but misses next one.
Flash puts 2nd wound on Joker
Ronan gets Joker up to 4 wounds.
Clayface misses Scout
Ronan kills Joker

R8 Scout teleports Ronan adjacent to him and both miss Clayface (they can attack since he’s the last one in his army).
Clayface kills Scout
Flash moves and uses +4 move to get adjacent to Clayface.
Clayface puts 1 wound on Flash
Ronan misses Clayface
Clayface misses Flash

R9 Scout adjacent to Ronan puts 2 wounds on Clayface and Ronan finishes him off with a 4/0 attack.


Who won and how many wounds did they have? . Ronan with 4 wounds, Flash with 1 wounds and 2 Kree Scouts survive to win on T1R9.

[IAmBatman]

I'm sorry for taking so long to mention this, but I just tonight realized that this guy has a range 10, attack 4 special attack that, if he doesn't move, essentially becomes a range 10, attack 8 special attack.
Um ... that special attack isn't just better than Darkseid's, it's way better than Darkseid's. That's a problem for me.
That's waaaaaay too much attack power for a guy who should be in the 200 point range. Can we possibly agree to take that special attack down to 3?

[Hahma]

I just updated my test sheet Bats and I suggested perhaps keeping the special attack at 4 but adding 2 dice if he doesn't move. It would make the special still decent at 4 if he does move, but it maxes the skull potential at 6 just as a 3 attack guy with deadly strike.

Gotta go to game night. Check in tomorrow.

[Good Pig]

Originally Posted by Hahma

I just updated my test sheet Bats and I suggested perhaps keeping the special attack at 4 but adding 2 dice if he doesn't move. It would make the special still decent at 4 if he does move, but it maxes the skull potential at 6 just as a 3 attack guy with deadly strike.

Gotta go to game night. Check in tomorrow.

I like that idea Hahma.

[A3n]

I can live with that change. From tests it wasn't an issue because as soon as he became a threat I sent the big hitters after him, which kept him moving or he went down only able to kill that one mark. I would say that he did usually take down his mark, so if the mark was worth a lot then you were going to get a lot of value out of him. But you also have to be selective in the mark as those that don't fall to ranged attacks aren't as easy for him to get at.

By changing the SA to only add 2 dice if he didn't move, you are probably more likely to choose the option of moving instead of staying still if the going gets tough. Where as currently he really is a camper.

[IAmBatman]

With him being an Assassin, you really have a lot of Order Marker flexibility with him to let him choose his targets well and set up a Ninja screen in front of him too.
I like Hahma's change and think it'll be a good change to keep this guy's special attack from being too redunkulous.

[Hahma]

If everyone is fine with the change, I can test him again this weekend.