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Old October 2nd, 2006, 09:46 AM
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Battlefields of Valhalla Discussion Thread

Battlefields of Valhalla
Goal: To offer the Heroscape gaming community balanced, playtested maps for both tournament and competitive play. And to establish standards for playable, balanced, and aesthetic maps.


Battlefields of Valhalla Display Thread

Updated 03/18/2014

Logged RoninValentina's vote: NtI SaS
1Mmirg vote YtI on Draugur

Asphalt Cocktail accepted for Review. (1Mmirg, mad_wookiee, Dignan, RoninValentina)

Maps pending acceptance for review:

———

Maps currently being reviewed:

DRAUGUR by mad_wookiee
Yes = 3 (1Mmirg, Typhon2222, Dignan) ; NO = 0 ; PENDING = 3 (nyys, fomox) *mad_wookiee removed as map creator

DANCE OF THE DRYADS by Typhon2222
Yes = 2 (Dignan, RoninValentina) ; NO = 0 ; PENDING = 4 (1Mmirg, mad_wookiee, nyys, fomox, )

SILENCE AND SOLITUDE by superfrog

Yes = 0 ; NO = 1 (RoninValentina) ; PENDING = 5 (1Mmirg, Dignan, mad_wookiee, nyys, fomox)

ASPHALT COCKTAIL by superfrog

Yes = 0 ; NO = 0 ; PENDING = 6 (1Mmirg, Dignan, mad_wookiee, nyys, fomox, RoninValentina)


Last edited by 1Mmirg : March 18th, 2014 at 11:04 AM. Reason: Update review status

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Old October 2nd, 2006, 10:06 AM
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By-laws for the Battlefields of Valhalla:

SECTION 1: Submission guidelines and tips
1. Maps shall contain exactly 24 hexes of start zone for each player. Start zones must be identified in the build instructions and must accommodate the Marro Hive in some capacity.
2. Maps should be balanced for 1-on-1 competition between two (2) 400-600 point armies
3. Maps are generally not to exceed 1 MS and up to 3 terrain expansions. No more than 2 expansions of the same type may be used in a map. There are exceptions; please note the set classifications at the bottom of this section.
4. Use of the Marro Hive as a line-of-sight blocker is allowed with the SotM set. Keep in mind the fewer expansions a map includes the more likely it is to be used. Submitted maps must state what sets are needed.
5. Anyone can nominate a map for consideration, but it will not go through the judging process without a majority vote of the Council.
6. Submitted maps must include build instructions.
7. Glyphs are not required, but any number may be used to enhance a map.
(a) Maps containing symbol-side up Treasure Glyphs must state which glyphs are Treasure Glyphs, otherwise mystery glyphs will be treated as standard glyphs. (Until another means of marking Treasure Glyphs becomes available, any face-up Brandar can be designated in the build instructions as a symbol-side up Treasure Glyph.)
(b) Symbol-side up Treasure Glyphs must include a description of the trap the map uses in the build instructions. Trap design will be considered in judging the map.
8. Nominations should be in .pdf format. Special circumstances may warrant exception.
9. Maps should not heavily favor any one special ability to the point that it makes the map non-competitive if an army does not contain that ability (i.e. range, flying, etc.).
10. Do NOT slap a map together and nominate it for consideration. Nominated maps must have some games played by more than one person. Additional game play experiences and observations are encouraged.



Classification of Heroscape sets:
  • Master Sets. One of the following may be used as a master set:
    • Rise of the Valkyrie
    • Marvel: The Conflict Begins
    • Swarm of the Marro
    • D&D: Battle for the Underdark
  • Expansions: Up to three of the following may be used, with up to two copies of the same set allowed:
    • Road To The Forgotten Forest
    • Volcarren Wasteland
    • Thaelenk Tundra
    • Fortress of the Archkyrie
    • Ticalla Jungle
  • Hybrid Master Sets: One of the following may be used in place of two expansions:
    • Marvel: The Conflict Begins
    • Swarm of the Marro (Except when also used as a master set.)
    • D&D: Battle for the Underdark
SECTION 2: How maps are judged
Maps nominated for consideration will go through the following process after a majority of acceptance votes by the judges:
1. Maps will be playtested competitively at least once by all judges, using 400-600 point armies. Candidates for approval will be playtested more than once.
2. Consideration for approved maps will be given, generally, based on the following criteria and in this order: balance, interesting play, and aesthetics.
3. Time for consideration is: as long as it takes for the judges to make an informed decision.
4. Great maps will be approved; not good ones. Don't let this discourage you.
5. Judge discussions will occur in a public and private forums on the non-official Heroscape web site: Currently www.heroscapers.com
7. Reviews on maps will be public with status and results presented.
8. Maps that receive a super-majority of 75% (currently 5 out of a possible 6) of the Council will be formatted and given the Battlefields of Valhalla Seal of Approval. Judges may abstain from a vote on a particular map, thereby reducing the total number of votes needed for acceptance.

SECTION 3: Self-governance
1. The Council will contain six judges. The current judges are: 1Mmirg, Dignan, fomox, mad_wookie, nyys, RoninValentina
2. Judges will maintain their position unless:
a) They are not heard from by fellow judges on the official non-official Heroscape web site for a period of 31 days, or
b) They abstain for a total of three months or for three consecutive maps under review, whichever comes later.
3. If a vacancy on the council occurs, judges will be replaced by those who:
a) show interest in serving, and
b) after consideration of the sitting judges receive 75 % vote of approval. Voting and discussion of a replacement judge may occur in private.
4. Judges will not be allowed to vote on their own maps. During the judging of their own maps their vote will be considered an abstention for the percentages needed to both playtest and approve the map. Their vote will NOT be counted as an abstention for purposes of the "three consecutive maps" criteria in Section 3-2-b.
5. These by-laws may be changed and amended at any time by a 75 % vote of sitting judges.

--
Maps that were reviewed but not approved for Battlefields of Valhalla:
Links to nomination
Links to yes votes
Links to no votes

Link to Updated List of Reviewed Maps (thanks, UtahScott!): 2007-2009 | 2010-2012

Old List:
Spoiler Alert!


Maps previously nominated but were not accepted for review (map balance varies wildly, please search the thread for why they didn't make it before using for competitive play):

Link to Updated List of Nominated Maps (again, thanks, UtahScott): 2007-2010

Old List:
Spoiler Alert!


Last edited by 1Mmirg : March 18th, 2014 at 10:57 AM. Reason: new judges!

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Old October 2nd, 2006, 10:52 AM
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UranusPChicago UranusPChicago is offline
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Are we going to designate starting zones and glyph placement on all maps as part of the submission process?


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Old October 2nd, 2006, 11:42 AM
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Eclipse Eclipse is offline
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I think there needs to be a standard starting zone size for Tournament maps. It would really suck to get to the finals and find out your army suddenly doesn't fit anymore. The most units you can have in a 400 point army is 40, but I'd guess most people would agree a smaller starting zone helps relieve the squadscape problem a bit. Someone once suggested 22-24 hexes, which seems pretty fair.

But yes, I think any glyphs or starting zones should be part of the map for submission. Nothing can unbalance a map more than a few poorly placed glyphs or starting zones that put you at a severe disadvantage. If we're going to scrutinize every single tree and wall placed on the map, we should definitely take the starting zone into consideration.


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Old October 2nd, 2006, 01:19 PM
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R˙chean R˙chean is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UranusPChicago
Are we going to designate starting zones and glyph placement on all maps as part of the submission process?
Yes, I think we should.

I see your point then; we need to use forsaken waters' winter holdout as a place to start and make some decisions about glyphs and starting zones from there.

Currently the start zones off of winter holdout are 18 hexes; we can easly tack two on each side to make 20.

I always liked the Glyph spots for "A" and "G" but could see trading one or the other or both for "V" and "K".


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Old October 3rd, 2006, 06:50 AM
CornPuff CornPuff is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R˙chean
I see your point then; we need to use forsaken waters' winter holdout as a place to start and make some decisions about glyphs and starting zones from there.
Yup, we need to get the kinks worked out of the system before we test someone else's map.

First things first, here is a link to a virtuascape file of Forsaken Waters with glyphs and start zones winter holdout style.

http://www.cornpuff.org/Heroscape/do...n%20Waters.hsc

Alright, here's a shot at a balance analysis:
The Glyphs of Astrid, Gerda, Valda, Kelda and Dagmar are the the same distance away from both start zones for normal, double-based, slithering and flying units with the following exceptions. A slithering unit on the Red side can step on the Glyph of Gerda in 9 move points, where it takes a slithering unit 10 move points to get to gerda from blue start. A double based figure from Red takes 11 Move Points (MP) to land on the glyph of Dagmar, while the blue side takes one less MP.

I don't see either of these as problems, but its worth pointing out the glyphs are extremely balanced.

The biggest difference between the two sides is that Red side has an 'island' that is excellent for a Raelin perch. There is no analog on blue side, as Raelin has to pick going to one of the sides, or landing on the contested central table. I would see this as a potential issue, but this map has been playtested so bloody much that we know it isn't significant.

I don't like the position of the glyph of Dagmar, as it screws up mobility on that ledge. Stop on glyph rules, IMHO, aren't that much fun, especially when its the init glyph that you don't care about that much.

If we add start spaces, I can see a way to add 3 spaces to each side without screwing up the glyph balance. Personally, I don't see much of a reason to add hexes to the start zone, as the limitation lends itself to a different type of strategy. On the other hand, sure, why not increase them. Tournament n00bs might be upset if they find they cant use 22 of their gruts, and we do have a responsibility to the tournament patrons.

I guess I'd rather keep it at 18. We might be looking at maps with fewer start zones in the future, and I'd hate to eliminate them just based on that. Let's see, 24 drones is 400 points. Should this be a metric?

Oh wait, I'm blabbering. Adding 3 hexes to each zone looks nice, should lessen tournament frustration, and doesn't damage the equality of the map. I added these hex locations this image, and highlighted them yellow.



Back to the glyphs.

We talked earlier about tournament maps having 2 faces. The first is the 'director's cut.' This is how the mapmaker intends the map to be played. The second is the 'standardized version.' This version will always have a spot for the "A" and "G" glyphs and no others.

My proposal is to remove the glyph of Dagmar (init), and the start zones plus three (like the image above) to make the FW Tournament Mix. The move and heal glyphs should be kept on to go with the designers original map as much as possible. For future maps, I'd of course consult the designers before accepting changes, but I don't think Rob and Craig are going to stop by and validate these changes.

For the standard A & G mix, I liked the gencon setup. It used the Valda and Astrid glyph spots. I'd also be quite happy leaving them where they are.


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Old October 11th, 2006, 01:39 PM
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How goes this project?


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Old October 22nd, 2006, 02:09 PM
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R˙chean R˙chean is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipse


How goes this project?
We all pretty much stopped down to prepare for the tourneys we were playing in this weekend. I do believe you will see some movement now on this front.

I will be making a more concerted effort in the coming weeks to focus on this endeavor.


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Old October 25th, 2006, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CornPuff
Back to the glyphs.

We talked earlier about tournament maps having 2 faces. The first is the 'director's cut.' This is how the mapmaker intends the map to be played. The second is the 'standardized version.' This version will always have a spot for the "A" and "G" glyphs and no others.

My proposal is to remove the glyph of Dagmar (init), and the start zones plus three (like the image above) to make the FW Tournament Mix. The move and heal glyphs should be kept on to go with the designers original map as much as possible. For future maps, I'd of course consult the designers before accepting changes, but I don't think Rob and Craig are going to stop by and validate these changes.

For the standard A & G mix, I liked the gencon setup. It used the Valda and Astrid glyph spots. I'd also be quite happy leaving them where they are.
I don't think the glyphs are as important as the glyph locations. I see the value in maintaining the integrity of the original map design as far as glyphs ...but I also see value in having the optimal glyph spots identified for random as well. Glyph A is the best primary placement of 1 random glyph and glyph V is the second most optimal placement when using 2 random glyphs. The reasoning here is that two glyphs that close together (A&G)with no cover between will usually be controlled by the same player. Glyph spot V allows a spot with cover further away making it harder to hold both glyphs at once. This could be noted as part of the download or recommendation; basically if using 1 random glyph use this spot, if two use these two, etc...

Too much detail? Ultimately the tourney manager will decide what they want to do but I think it is important to have 1-2 random glyph locations pre-identified.


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Old October 25th, 2006, 11:48 AM
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UranusPChicago UranusPChicago is offline
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I second R˙chean on glyph location. I recommend that we just use the "?" glyph when identifying the glyph locations. I tend to think of "scenario" maps using specific glyphs.

Yes, there are some of the glyphs that IMHO have no business being in a tournament setting, but I will leave that for the tournament directors to decide on.


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Old October 25th, 2006, 01:33 PM
CornPuff CornPuff is offline
 
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Wow, a lot has happened in the other thread since I made that big post. We can ignore all of my past rhetoric about the 'directors cut,' as i think that has all been resolved.

Since it is our duty to present the best version of the map to tourney organizers, I think we should use the map in the image above, without random glphs, instead with all 4 pre-placed glyphs. I've played the 'winter holdout' scenario several times, and always thought it was a blast, I think the Kelda glyph is a fine addition to this map, even though it may increase gametimes.

I really think specific glyphs are great for many maps, as where a glyph is changes the dynamic of the map a lot. Say you have a glyph of lodin randomly placed in the V or K spot. Well then that sucks, because now no one really has any incentive to go over there. Randomness should be left for casual play IMO, while people should have more knowledge ahead of time for competitive play.

Then again, if you know what glyphs are going to be on a map, and then randomize their locations, then that is a different story


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Old October 25th, 2006, 10:13 PM
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I think all boards should have a 24 starting zone, just add more tiles on the back side ( what I did in Canton was for the boards that didn't have 24 starting spaces, you could only add extra spaces if you needed them ). We used random glyphs in the canton Tourney and I think it worked out better then knowing what was where. In the Central Ohio tourney you had people wanting one side or the other because they wanted to be closer to the attack glyph verses the defense glyph. When they are random ( unknown ) you don't have this problem.

I also made a house rule where the curse only affectst he team that picks it up, it cost me the tourneyment but I really like that rule.

Truth was at both of these tourneys, maybe ask him what he thinks.


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