Do any other games suffer from...

[CanScape]

...the overall lack of availability of product that Heroscape does? This isn't meant to be a negative post, but I can't think of any games (other than collectible card games, or their like) that are relatively as difficult to obtain as Heroscape expansions.

While it's not realistic to think that certain waves would be available 'all the time', did I just get into it too late? Was it ever easy to find all the terrain you'd like, or at least to order it from Hasbro?

Other than the DnD stuff (which I still haven't seen in the wild), very little is out there to purchase...big box store or otherwise.

Since there's obviously a demand (as ebay proves), why don't the powers that be simply reprint that which is truly in demand, say select booster packs or the terrain sets like the lava and snow? Having some stock storage to sell to those eager to buy it only makes business sense, doesn't it? Or is the economics of such a thing make it impossible to do at a profit? Like, why are the Feldspar boosters already out of stock? Were they that popular?

Perhaps I can be enlightened by those who know about more about it.

[Chardar]

I don't know about the others. But Volcarren Wasteland was a TRU exclusive. Since they no longer stock heroscape reprinting that particular set could cause legal issues between TRU and WotC.

[CanScape]

What kind of legal issues? And when was the last time VW was in a TRU? You'd think they could come to some sort of agreement. And since TRU doesn't stock Heroscape, then why would they care if that set became available again? Obviously there's a demand...and I don't think that demand stems from a collectible standpoint. People want some hot lava death in their maps, of course. Same goes for the flagbearers.

[Therrian]

I am by no means a business expert, but sales on ebay are not really an indication of wide spread demand for a product.

Yes, there are folks that play scape that are willing to pay 50 bucks for a tundra...but that doesn't mean that there are 10,000 folks willing to pay 20 bucks for the same tundra.

For WOTC to want to print and reprint more and more product, they need to be sure that they can sell it.

So far, while it's annoying to those of us wanting more product, they have managed to not 'overmake' many things (Marvel, FOTA not-withstanding) which means they don't have pointless stock sitting around taking up space and costing them money. So, while they may not be maximizing their profits, they are ensuring they don't take a loss...which when you are a publically traded company is often the best choice to make.

Now, as to why they can't just run off little reprints of this and that...well...getting factories up and running making things is expensive. As such, running off a few thousand tundras is probably not worth the money investment it would take to get the various factories and such pumping out the product. They need to make enough at one time to justify that initial cost investment...and I am assuming that WOTC either doesn't want to invest the capital in doing that at this time...or they don't know if the reprint demand is high enough to justify producing it...or we have another preview coming on wednesday that is going to tell us about the reprints coming this year...who knows at this point.

The key is, it's not as simple as just kicking out a few thousand of each thing to keep customers happy. Reprints are by no means as simple as we tend to make them out to be. Other then making new molds, and not having to playtest/design...it's basically the same production investment as new product is with less gaurantee that it will sell.

[wriggz]

We are in Canada, there has always been less scape here.

That said, if I got into scape when I first wanted to (about 4 years ago!) It would have been easy to get everything. I remember seeing VW and multiple expansions in TRU everytime I went in. I remember seeing wave 3 pleatyful and wondering why anyone would by the Flag barriers (only one fig?).

Now I have only signed up in the last year, but other than HATO (who i will never want) I have everything (including an excellent woo repaint) I paid about MSRP or less for everything, So I consider this still a fairly easy to collect game.

Even if I didn't buy anything on line or on from the trade thread here (thank god I did), I would have all the large expansions, all the terrair expansions (except lava), i would have muliples of wave 1, 7, 8, 9, 10, Marvel and all the D&D stuff, and some wave 6. I would call that a fairly good collection in it's own right.

[CanScape]

I agree that ebay doesn't translate into 'real world' sales, but look at the Fortress. It went from nothing, to boatloads of it. From all speculation, that set had a LOT of plastic in it, and even that went for clearance near the end. And the prices of it are now starting to creep back up on ebay. And the fortress doesn't have nearly the amount of resale that the Tundra set does, for instance.

But back to the main point...are there any other games that have this type of issue? I can't say it's an outright problem, because there is some available...albeit online for the most part.

[wriggz]

Try and find the mars expansion for Risk 2210, or any of countless expansions for any game, toy, or other collectable and you will find it is difficult.

It is a universal "problem" but i believe scape actually less of a problem than most.

[Therrian]

Originally Posted by CanScape

I agree that ebay doesn't translate into 'real world' sales, but look at the Fortress. It went from nothing, to boatloads of it. From all speculation, that set had a LOT of plastic in it, and even that went for clearance near the end. And the prices of it are now starting to creep back up on ebay. And the fortress doesn't have nearly the amount of resale that the Tundra set does, for instance.

But back to the main point...are there any other games that have this type of issue? I can't say it's an outright problem, because there is some available...albeit online for the most part.

I know what you mean, but you gotta disconnect the two. High ebay prices are just an indication that there is a small group of people willing to pay inflated prices for something. It does not mean there is a large group of people willing to pay normal prices for something.

Not saying that the Tundra wouldn't sell, because I think it would sell quite well, as I think most reprints would. However, I do think that WOTC is smart from a business standpoint in making these smaller runs that they are sure they can sell out of versus making too much and sitting on stock...it just sucks as a fan.

[Riggler]

As others have said there are other board games out there that have had out of print issue. Arkham Horror and it's expansions come to mind for me (From Fantasy Flight Games). I wouldn't be surprised if the actual staff of Fantasy Flight and WOTC were much different, as both employ a lot of freelancers from what I understand. Anyway, Fantasy Flight's issue with reprints of games is the capital investment. And as I was told it was a cash flow issue. Reprinting an item can tie up capital that may be spent on something else.

My educated guess is that WOTC has a set capital budget for Heroscape and they have to recoup through sales before they can outlay more. In addition to what others have said, they've got to make it the most profitable.

One of many heroscapers' biggest complaint is the packaging, which slows WOTC's regaining of their capital and gives the money guys a false sense of demand. When you have cases that include 4 boosters (one of each release in a wave) and two or three of those boosters are common and one or two are unique -- you have lowered retail demand. Because retailers sit on tons of unique packs.

I don't know if WOTC has figured this out for retailers like HouseMouse, but retail still gets one each in a case. That's a major business flaw with Heroscape.

[CanScape]

So perhaps it would be easier for stocking shelves if they sell the commons together, and uniques by themselves...and then produce less uniques overall to cover for the fact that most will only buy one booster. That would make sense.

I didn't think Arkham was too tough to find...I see their expansions at just about every local store nearby, and anything else could be ordered in. That's another heavy expansion game, though...lots of money to be spent, lol.

[chispito]

This isn't rocket surgery. The supply issues are because they keep releasing new content, and cannot keep printing old content concurrently.

[Tmac2200]

Why don't they just produce less Uniques and change the case makeup to,

Hero pack- 1/2
Common- 1
Common- 1
Common- 1

I think if you have every other case with a Unique it might cut down on how many sit on the shelves.