C3G HR Department: the Dumping Ground

[Spidey'tilIDie]

The respect is mutual, I think of you two as the Heart and Soul of all of this. Bats, the World's Finest would be a dead Thread without your dragging it kicking and screaming through, and Griffin, we'd still be stuck on scenarios and maps without your designs. I have no problem with playtesting, in fact I hope to do more in the future, hopefully surpassing the two a month quota. Honestly, I love to play, I just didn't have a place to set things up and leave it up before. But that problem is solved. I am mid battle with Major Q10 as probably one of the few people who has all of the official figures, I hope to at least do one full set playtest, just to make sure official targetting is not an issue. So as far as I am concerned, I think your requirements are perfectly acceptable. But I really do think dedication is the number one requirement. With what I give to C3G, I don't know how anyone has the energy to work on their own customs while we are in the design phase. Playtesting phase, I can understand because some people want to keep the creative juices flowing. (BTW, I am not pointing any fingers or making any accusations, I am merely commenting on my own lack of energy after keeping up with this sub-forum all day.)

[IAmBatman]

Yeah ... I think you can see how active my customs thread has been lately ... but part of that is just that I don't get the same reward out of making customs there as I do out of participating here.
Btw, I'm only suggesting a minimum standard of one playtest sheet per week, not two (though two would be great!).
But I'm really glad you're on board with this and understanding what I'm trying to say here about setting our personal standards high. Frankly, if I dropped off the map for a while, I'd expect you guys to drop me to inactive and would hope you'd carry the project on without me. We did it to Griff (I agree he's the heart of the project in so many ways) when he disappeared for a while, so no one is safe IMO (except maybe GreyOwl, but he has us over a barrel with that great card art!).
This isn't even something I think we'd necessarily need to implement right away (though if there was overwhelming approval for it, I wouldn't get in the way). It's just something I think we should seriously consider as we move into ala cart, consider new membership, and self-evaluate as to what's made this project work so far and what will keep us from getting burnt out as individuals.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

This isn't even something I think we'd necessarily need to implement right away (though if there was overwhelming approval for it, I wouldn't get in the way). It's just something I think we should seriously consider as we move into ala cart, consider new membership, and self-evaluate as to what's made this project work so far and what will keep us from getting burnt out as individuals.

I 100% agree with this statement! I see no better time to recommit ourselves than when the project makes a major change like this. At the point we make an overhaul is the best chance for people to jump ship without any hard feelings, IMO. Just like in a corporation, except we have no severance packages to offer, except they get to keep their badge!

[whitestuff]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

So if someone asked me - what makes a C3G Hero, I would say - it's someone who gives regular input, who is an experienced designer, who cares about collaboration, who puts logic and commitment into voting, who is passionate about superheroscape, and who is read and willing to get his hands dirty and do some playtesting (because, let's face it, he loves playing with this stuff!).

Well, I nearly measure up...

I'll have to be honest here, but trying to keep up with the sheer amount of posts and threads that you guys pump out is daunting. When I finally get time to get online and there are hundreds of posts in multiple threads, a lot of the time I sigh inwardly and often, I move on.

Case in point, the vehicle thread. I was involved in the initial discussion, but now I have no idea where it is at. I can't justify the time to catch up, or loosing the sleep to be wake when you guys are, so my plan is to wait until the discussion has finished up and then make any comments about the rules that I think need to be made.

It isn't my preferred method of participation, but I have little other choice. If that causes you angst, or makes you question my interest in the project than that is unfortunate.

The last thing that I wanted to say right now is that I think that you guys are a little hung-up on time spent play-testing. I can guarantee that I spent as much time putting art together as you guys did play-testing.

I'm not looking to toot my own horn. I'm pointing it out to show that there many different ways to contribute IMHO.

[Hahma]

Sounds good and fair fellas. A minimum of 1 playtest a month is not asking too much (though it does take me more than 2 hours ). Regardless, if someone can't do it, then it's easy to question their opinion on just about everything because if you don't play the game, how do you know what you're talking about? Theoryscaping is fine but doesn't mean anything really, look how much units can change from first draft to final product. If it were left to Theoryscaping, the first draft would be released and it would be a crappy product.

I'm for the new requirements.

[Griffin]

Originally Posted by whitestuff

The last thing that I wanted to say right now is that I think that you guys are a little hung-up on time spent play-testing. I can guarantee that I spent as much time putting art together as you guys did play-testing.

I'm not looking to toot my own horn. I'm pointing it out to show that there many different ways to contribute IMHO.

Whitestuff, I know how much you have contributed, and I appreciate all of it, your my brother from another mother down under . I think it might be a good idea to help us list some of things that you think should separate a "C3G Hero" from a "C3G Sidekick" from a fan. Personally, I think that anyone who is willing and able to contribute in many ways, shouldn't mind putting in 2 or 3 hours of playtesting a month.

I am just gonna post on the front page any suggested requirement for Sidekicks and Heroes. Right now this is just merely an in house study to see what sort of requirements and responsibilities each Sidekick and Hero should have. If anyone has any ideas as to what the expectations and responsibilities should be, please post them and I will update the front page.

These are mostly my thoughts, and right now I am only adding ideas to the wall here. If you have a requirement or responsibility idea for our members, just post it and I will up date the front page with your idea. Afterwards, we can decide how much we want to keep, if any.

SIDEKICKS
Requirments

• To be a well respected Heroscapers.com member
• To be sponsored by a C3G Hero (Heroes may sponsor a Heroscaper by proposing that the applicant be chosen to be a sidekick)
• To have done at least 3 full playtest forms
• To have a solid understanding of the rules and mechanics of Heroscape
• To have a passion for and understanding of Comic Book superheroes.

Responsibilities

• To stay involved in the process of the C3G threads of their personal interest
• To complete at least one playtest form per month
• To maintain and organize the front page of each thread that they start for C3G design cards
• To vote when necessary to decide a split vote

HEROES
Requirments

• To have been a Sidekick for at least one month

Responsibilities

• To complete at least two playtest forms per month
• To stay involved in the process of the C3G threads of their personal interest
• To maintain and organize the front page of each thread that they start for C3G design cards
• To vote when necessary

[Hahma]

I'd argue that 2 hours is enough time to playtest and put together a test sheet unless someone is just throwing figures at each other without much consideration for strategy. While the requirements have been cut down considerably by only having 1 melee and 1 ranged army test, I think that putting a time on it may be misleading. A test should take what it takes to do an honest evaluation of a unit, but it still isn't too much to ask to do one a month.

[Hahma]

Originally Posted by whitestuff

The last thing that I wanted to say right now is that I think that you guys are a little hung-up on time spent play-testing. I can guarantee that I spent as much time putting art together as you guys did play-testing.

I'm not looking to toot my own horn. I'm pointing it out to show that there many different ways to contribute IMHO.

Your work is greatly appreciated Whitestuff, really it is.

From my experience, I had spent 8-12 hours a week playtesting for months and months. Not only units, but maps, glyphs, intra-set testing, scenario testing etc. etc. The requirements have changed to make it a faster process, thank goodness, but I can personally attest to many sleepless nights and time spent away from family to get that stuff done.

[Griffin]

Originally Posted by Hahma

Your work is greatly appreciated Whitestuff, really it is.

From my experience, I had spent 8-12 hours a week playtesting for months and months. Not only units, but maps, glyphs, intra-set testing, scenario testing etc. etc. The requirements have changed to make it a faster process, thank goodness, but I can personally attest to many sleepless nights and time spent away from family to get that stuff done.

And honestly Hahma, that is just too much for us to expect out of you, and I am sure that you would agree that we should all be sharing the load.

[Balantai]

Maybe we shouldn't qualify it to 2 hours of playtesting, but 2 hours of "X" work.

X = Art design, playtesting, etc. Whitestuff certainly made up for more than enough with his comic strip, box art and rulebook cover. I'm guessing that took him more time than we give him credit for.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by whitestuff

Well, I nearly measure up...

I'll have to be honest here, but trying to keep up with the sheer amount of posts and threads that you guys pump out is daunting. When I finally get time to get online and there are hundreds of posts in multiple threads, a lot of the time I sigh inwardly and often, I move on.

Case in point, the vehicle thread. I was involved in the initial discussion, but now I have no idea where it is at. I can't justify the time to catch up, or loosing the sleep to be wake when you guys are, so my plan is to wait until the discussion has finished up and then make any comments about the rules that I think need to be made.

It isn't my preferred method of participation, but I have little other choice. If that causes you angst, or makes you question my interest in the project than that is unfortunate.

The last thing that I wanted to say right now is that I think that you guys are a little hung-up on time spent play-testing. I can guarantee that I spent as much time putting art together as you guys did play-testing.

I'm not looking to toot my own horn. I'm pointing it out to show that there many different ways to contribute IMHO.

Again, I want to make sure nobody thinks this is about what they've done in the past or calling anyone out - it's not. I definitely recognize all you've done for the project, Whitestuff, and I don't want to suggest anything to the contrary. You've been simply clutch and amazing and it wouldn't be anywhere close to the same level without you.
Honestly, when I suggested moving you down to Sidekick I was trying to do it as a favor to you - because I realize how hard it must be to keep up with all of this and I didn't want you to feel the constant pressure to put in odd hours to do so. If you feel at all that your arm was twisted there or anything, I have no problem bumping you back up - I definitely didn't suggest that move because I didn't think you deserve to be a hero - I do. I was just thinking practically about the project and what we could realistically and fairly expect of you.
Really I'd be more suggesting playtesting as a requirement for heroes as a way to set the bar just a bit higher to be a hero and to reward those who do heavy lifting with a vote. For sidekicks it's be more of a way to evaluate who to add as a new member, but if you've already earned your spot, I couldn't see having a minimum playtesting requirement for a sidekick - especially since they wouldn't be getting a vote except for tie breaks. I also definitely see room for exceptions in this requirement for those putting in work beyond just typing online that shows real effort and commitment - like all the graphic work you did for World's Finest.
That said, now that we're departing from Master Sets for a while, I don't think much more of that type of graphic work will be required, so we need to think about what we should be asking Heroes to do.
The number one thing that is going to take time in this project is playtesting - and that's why I do put such an emphasis on it. I apologize if I seem "hung up" but I think it's a big deal because it's what sets us apart, it's what slows us down, and I think it's what could burn us out if there aren't enough of us committed to sharing the load on it down the road.

[Balantai]

Oh...I forgot to say. I am on board with making this standard. I could use a kick in the pants.