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HeroScape General Discussion General discussions of packaging, terrain, components, etc. If it doesn't fit in any other official category, put it here. |
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Tournament Scoring Methods: A Census.
Note: the structure and content of this post has changd significantly since its first incarnation; if the earlier comments don't make sense this is probably the reason.
A conversation in the post-tournament thread of Beantown Beatdown V led to the suggestion that a post that compiled a list of the different tournament scoring methods out there would be useful. This is that post. I've started with methods---proposed and used---that I know of; put more in the thread and I'll add them. I'll try and keep the value judgements out of this post, but I hope there'll be some spirited discussion in the thread. I should also note that this is going to be mainly a matter of personal preference; there are no right or wrong answers here. Rather than list each method in its entirety I've broken things down into three submethods: Overall structure, breaking ties within a structure, and deciding who wins an unfinished game. You can, for the most part, pick and choose the bits of each section and join them together into a coherent tournament structure. I'm only considering two player head-to-head Heroscape though many of the ideas naturally extend to other variants. From the bottom up, let's start with deciding unfinished games: Unfinished Games Usually when a game is unfinished each player counts their points and the player with the highest score is the winner (and the game is tied if the points are the same for each player). Alternatively, unfinished games may be declared drawn without counting points. Each of the following questions has multiple answers---different TDs use different answers for each question. At the end of the next section I classify some recent events according to their answers to these questions. 1. If I have a partial squad or wounded hero do I count the full card's worth of points or calculate some fraction? A. Use the whole card value. A single Nakita nets you 120pts and a wounded Carr is worth 100pts. B. Use fractional scoring. If you have one squad member of three remaining you score a third of the cost of that squad (so a single Nakita earns 40pts), if you have a half-wounded hero you score half the points (so, 50pts for an Agent Carr with two wounds). 2. I didn't bring the full point allowance. Do I count the shortfall towards my points? A. No, you're not controlling those points so you can't count them. B. Yes, your opponent didn't kill them so they're yours. 3. I brought more than the starting zone limit of figures. Are the units I left off counted towards my total? A. No, they are considered killed at the outset of the game. B. Yes, your opponent didn't kill them so they're yours. 4. I mindshackled (or soul devoured) an opponent's unit. Do I count it? A. Yes, you control it so it's yours. B. No, you didn't bring it so you can't count it. It does not count for your opponent either as your opponent does not control it. 5. I had the Airborne Elite but they didn't drop (or unsummoned Rechets with Iskra still alive), do I count them? A. No, they're not on the board so they don't count. B. Yes, they are still potentially active so count the points. (If Iskra is dead then the Rechets are considered dead too; if all your units are dead then the game is complete and you don't need to be reading this section.) 6. I had a zombie (or similar unit) killed but it came back to life. Do I count it in my points? A. Yes, to do otherwise would be dumb. B. No, not only should you not count it, you need to deduct the value of that unit for every additional time that it was killed. Tournament Points Beyond using the points for deciding games most tournaments carry these points cumulatively into the tournament in some way. While there is a case for using one method for deciding unfinished games and another for carrying points forward, in practice the above issues are normally resolved in the same way in each case. There are four common choices for taking these points forward (or not):
Specific Events Here is how some events have answered the questions above (please chime in with more):
Tournament Structures We now need to fit these games (both finished and unfinished) into some tournament structure. Here are some examples: Swiss. Swiss is the dominant structure in Heroscape tournaments. At the start of each round the players are sorted into rank order and paired off one with two, three with four, and so on. Some variations allow repeat match-ups, some do not. Knock-out. Single elimination---lose a game and you're out. A losers' bracket can be added and rejoined into the structure to make it double elimination. King of the Hill. Just one board in action. Play order decided randomly and winner stays on. You play until you lose. Rolling Rumble. Each game is played to completion. When a game finishes the two players pair-up with any waiting players; the winner with the highest ranked waiter and the loser with the longest waiter. No repeat opponents allowed. Ranking Once an event is finished, and between rounds for a Swiss event, we need to rank the players. This typically happens according to set of criteria applied in a specific order. One such criterion is the points method described above. Here are some other potential criteria. Number of Wins. This is the most common primary decision criterion. Strength of Schedule. Usually taken to be the sum of the number of wins of your opponents. Other variations are possible that put a floor on contribution from each opponent or take into account your opponents' opponents. Win rate. Number of wins divided by number of games played. This one is only relevant when the players have played distinct numbers of games. D20 roll. These elements can now be joined together into a tournament. For example, the first event I ran was a Swiss system with number of wins as the first criterion, points as the second criterion (using answers BAAABA) and a D20 roll as the third. GenCon Championship Day 1 uses number of wins as the first criterion, strength of schedule as the second and D20 roll (actually computer randomisation, I think) as the third. I think that most of the events can now be described using the language here---TDs are welcome (and encouraged) to use any parts of this post when describing their events. Final Remarks That's what I have so far. I'm sure there is much that I've missed. Let me know and I'll update this post. Is there sufficient flesh on the descriptions to allow them to be cut-and-pasted as tournament guidelines? One of the aims of this post is to help tournament directors set up and run their events smoothly. What methods are used in your area? I'd like to list a few examples, with links, for each of the systems. Finally which is your preferred method? Why? Last edited by ollie; October 15th, 2009 at 08:49 AM. |
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Re: Tournament Scoring Methods: A Census.
I got confused by the flowers.
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Re: Tournament Scoring Methods: A Census.
Sorry---a mathematician's habit. It's much easier to talk about stuff once you've given it a name, but during development you need to name a lot more stuff than actually needs its own name so assigning arbitrary names along some theme is common.
If it helps, I've heard daffodil points described as "survival points", both tulip and rose points as "kill points", both marigold and pansy points as "point differential" and any and all of them as "victory points". |
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Re: Tournament Scoring Methods: A Census.
We can call it Taeblewalker's Method For Tournaments That Only Taeblewalker Attends.
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Re: Tournament Scoring Methods: A Census.
It seems to me that in practice, Rose points and Tulip points are the same. If there's any difference, it would help to explain that. Also, Marigold and Pansy would come out to the same number.
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Re: Tournament Scoring Methods: A Census.
I thought undropped daffodils normally count toward your opponents roses?
(there has got to be a hybridization joke in here somewhwere) Also I'm a little hazy on your description of king of the hill. Is that like 20+ people playing on one map? |
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Re: Tournament Scoring Methods: A Census.
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When used to decide an unfinished game, I strongly believe that tulip points (equivalently daffodil points) are superior: whoever has the most points on the board should be delcared the winner. Those that advocate for rose points say that you need to actually kill units to earn the points. I can see this as an argument when carrying the points into the tournament structure, but think it gives the wrong answer when deciding individual games. This distinction was one of the primary points of contention that led to this thread's creation. |
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Re: Tournament Scoring Methods: A Census.
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Re: Tournament Scoring Methods: A Census.
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Tulip and rose points are lumped into "kill points". Note that within this system, there are 2 sub-systems, which either do or do not count points in the army that figures aren't filling. Daffodil points are renamed "remaining points" or "survival points". Marigold and pansy points are lumped into "point differential". |
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Re: Tournament Scoring Methods: A Census.
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Re: Tournament Scoring Methods: A Census.
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