Where Math Meets English

[BurnyFlame]

“Where Math Meets English”
(or “How well do you know you cards?” or “The Definitive List of Meticulous Card-Reading”)

No, not Manglish.

I am talking about the particular wording found on our beloved HeroScape army cards. You see, whenever a card’s power has to modify attack, defense, range, or movement, it is very important to have a precise wording so that multiple interpretations will not result. The entire FAQ sections is a lesson in the ramifications of a confusing or an inconsistent wording of the rules of the game.

Many would argue that it is in the modification the characters’ stats where the fun of HeroScape lies. True, if it were not, many more people would be playing the basic way (yes, there is another way to play . . .). Indeed, rolling more or less dice seems to be one of the intrinsic goals of HeroScape, and although the math is simple enough, it may not always be worded as a simple “plus” or “minus.” Often it is a jumbled combination of both Math and English, numbers and words, symbols and phrases, and because of that inconsistency, it is no wonder that so much time is lost to simply rereading or explaining the rules again.

That being said, most players might not think twice about the wording of the card, but instead just consider “the spirit” of the power, and once they get it memorized or cleared up with friends, they never look at it again except in gaming emergencies. They feel that nothing is to be gained from knowing why certain words were used, or why a card says “one” instead of “1,” or how the term “additional” was meant. But they would be wrong.

The only way that the people playing this miniatures game can connect with it is through the sight, sounds, smell, touch, and even taste of the game. Immersing yourself in the world of HeroScape as if it were a calm, refreshing Wellspring amidst the mundane chaos that is everyday life; that is a dream and reality rolled up into each fleeting hour by which we play the game. When you say that what is written on the cards is not as important as what is meant by those cards, you indeed are living with only the thought of HeroScape, and not the real game itself, which can be just as beautiful.

Where am I going with this? Perhaps I just want to get a discussion going about the apparent inconsistencies of the powers on the cards themselves. Perhaps some sort of correlation can be found as to why certain wordings were chosen over similar phrases of equivalent or near equivalent meanings. Maybe some units actually subconsciously benefit from clearer wordings, and maybe even new meanings on old cards could be found.

Or a pressing question I now pose is that, in general, should we as a community demand consistency in our system of play? If so, which wordings should we determine as "best?"

So all you grammar-phobes may look away now as I analyze all of the powers that change the way we attack, defend, move, and use range. None of the powers that alter or speak directly about the 20-sided die, wound markers, or completely negating rolls were included for the sake of brevity (although I fear I may have already exceeded this limit).

Enjoy, and try to test your own memory on the particular powers (for instance, does the 4th Line’s power say “plus 1," “plus one,” “add 1,” “add one,” or “roll an additional” attack die?); you may be surprised on how many cards you truly know what is written.


Powers that say “add(s) X" (where X = 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, or 8)
4th Massachusetts Line - Wait Then Fire - “add 1 die to their attack”
Agent Carr - Sword Of Reckoning 4 - “add 4 dice to Agent Carr’s attack”
Anubian Wolves - Unleashed Fury - “add 1 . . . add 2 . . . add 3 . . . add 4 . . . add 8 to the attack value of this card”
Ashigaru Harquebus - Wait Then Fire - “add 1 die to their attack”
Blastarons - Homing Device - “add 1 attack die”
Deathwalker 9000 - Range Enhancement - “add 2 spaces to their range”
Dumutef Guard - Road Strength - “add 1 to Dumutef Guard’s attack and defense”
Eldgrim The Viking Champion - Warrior’s Swiftness Spirit - “adds 1 to the move number on that card”
Elite Onyx Vipers - Evasive 8 - “add 8 defense dice to the defending Viper”
Finn The Viking Champion - Attack Aura 1 - “add 1 die to their normal attack”
-Warrior’s Attack Spirit 1 - “adds 1 to the normal attack number on that card”
Gladiatrons - Melee Defense 1 - “a Gladiatron adds 1 die”
Kozuke Samurai - Charging Assault - “add 3 to their Move number”
Laglor - Vydar’s Range Enhancement Aura - “add 2 to their Range number”
Major X17 - Melee Defense 4 - “Major X17 adds 4 dice”
Marrden Hounds - Wild Pack Movement - “add 1 . . . add 3 . . . add 7 to the move value of this card”
Marro Drudge - Swamp Water Strength - “add 1 to its attack and defense”
Marro Stingers - Stinger Drain - “add 0 . . . add 1 to the attack value of this card”
Master Win Chiu Woo - Master’s Influence - “add 1 to their attack dice and 1 to their defense dice”
Nerak The Glacian Swog Rider - Orc Defense Aura 1 - “add 1 to their defense dice”
- Snow Strength - “add 1 to Nerak’s attack and defense”
Obsidian Guards - Lava Throw - “add 2 to its range”
Raelin The Kyrie Warrior - Defensive Aura - “add 2 to their defense dice”
Raelin The Kyrie Warrior (Swarm of the Marro) - Extended Defensive Aura - “add 1 to their defense dice”
Roman Legionnaires - Shield Wall - “add 1 defense die . . . up to a maximum of +2 dice”
Shiori - Concentrated Will - “add 1 to her attack and defense”
Sir Denrick - Giant Killer - “add 2 attack dice”
Sir Gilbert - Attack Aura 1 - “add 1 die to their normal attack”
Spartacus - Gladiator Inspiration - “Gladiators add one to their Move number and add 1 extra attack die and defense die”
Thorgrim The Viking Champion - Defensive Aura 1 - “add 1 die to their defense”
-Warrior’s Armor Spirit 1 - “adds 1 to the defense number on that card”

Powers that say “add one”
Gorillinators - Tough - “add one automatic shield to whatever is rolled”
Hatamoto Taro - Adjacent Tough - “add one automatic shield to the defense roll”
Spartacus - Gladiator Inspiration - “Gladiators add one to their Move number and add 1 extra attack die and defense die”
Zettian Guards - Zettian Targeting - “add one attack die”

Powers that say “receive(s) one" or “receive(s) X" (X is a number)
4th Massachusetts Line - Valiant Army Defense Bonus - “each . . . receives 1 additional defense die”
Dumutef Guard - Road Strength - Devourer Attack Enhancement - “receive an additional attack die”
Khosumet The Darklord - Relentless Assault - “each . . . receives an additional attack die”
Krug - Wounded Smash - “he receives one extra attack die”
Marcus Decimus Gallus - Attack Enhancement - “receive an additional attack die”
Sacred Band - Disciplined Army Defense Bonus - “each . . . receives 1 additional defense die”
Swog Rider - Orc Archer Enhancement - “receive an additional attack die and an additional defense die”
Templar Cavalry - Galloping Charge - “receives 2 additional attack dice”
Dismiss the Rabble - “receive 1 additional defense die”
Righteous Smite - “receive 1 additional attack die”
Tornak - Orc Warrior Enhancement - “receive and additional attack die and an additional defense die”
Valguard - First Assault 3 - “Valguard receives 3 additional attack dice”

Powers that say “roll(s)” (a specific number)
Concan The Kyrie Warrior - Knight And Sentinel Enhancement - “roll an additional attack die and an additional defense die”
Grimnak - Orc Warrior Enhancement - “roll an additional attack die and an additional defense die”
Isamu - Dishonorable Attack - “rolls 2 additional attack dice”
MacDirk Warriors - Highland Fury - “roll one additional attack die”
Microcorp Agents - Sighting - “he rolls an additional attack die”
Obsidian Guards - Water Weakness - “rolls 2 fewer defense dice”
Retarius - Net Trip 14 - “may roll no more than 1 die for defense”
Sir Denrick - A Coward’s Reward - “Sir Denrick rolls one additional die”
Tagawa Samurai - Bloodlust - “roll one additional attack die”

Powers that say “rolled . . . count(s)”
Hatamoto Taro - Heroic Defense Aura - “each Einar symbol rolled counts as an additional shield”
Minions Of Utgar - Deadly Strike - “all skulls rolled count for one additional hit”
Omnicron Snipers - Deadly Shot - “all skulls rolled count for one additional hit”
Ornak - Orc Battle Cry Aura - “each Utgar symbol rolled counts for an additional skull”
Sentinels of Jandar - Shields of Valor - “each shield rolled counts for one additional block”

Powers that say “move . . . X," (X is a number), “move one,” or “move an”
Acolarh - Ullar’s Amulet - “may move 2 additional spaces”
Marcus Decimus Gallus - Soldier Leadership - “move one additional space.”
Venoc Warlord - Scout Leadership - “can move an additional 2 spaces”
Warden 816 - Guard Leadership - “move one additional space”

Powers that use the “+” symbol (where X = 1 or 2)
Roman Legionnaires - Shield Wall - “add 1 defense die . . . up to a maximum of +2 dice”
Taelord The Kyrie Warrior - Attack Aura - “get +1 to attack”


Things to note:

The “add X” phrase is clearly the most abundant, at least in part because I believe that in most concisely says what is desired and nothing else. I have found that many times the amount of spacing available for the card text is a major concern, so using “add 1" instead of “roll one additional attack die” is indeed a space saver.

Taelord is essentially in his own category because of his use of the “+” symbol. Although “+1” is even more concise than saying “add 1,” he did not need to save space on his card, unless perhaps in the errata version Stealth Flying takes up an incredible amount of space. I believe his arrogance in thinking he is better than every other card with his fancy “+1” was subconsciously punished with an additional 60 points or so.

Some cards are truly disgusting when it comes to self-consistency. Although I am fine if a card wants to have some variety interchanging “add” with “receive,” I do not agree with them using “1” on the first line and “one” on the next. My example is Spartacus. His cards states: “Inspired Gladiators add one to their Move number and add 1 extra attack die and defense die”

First of all, why is “Move” capitalized? Is “Move number” an official term? It was indeed used in a few other cards, like the Kozuke Samurai’s “add 3 to their Move number” and similarly with the power of Laglor with “add 2 to their Range number.” However, looking at the Marrden Hounds, we see the term “move value” instead; and looking at the word preceding “number” in Finn’s Warrior’s Attack Spirit 1, we see “attack number” not capitalized. Furthermore, Eldgrim uses the same term, “move number,” without capitalization. So which should be the official term, “Move number,” “Move value,” “move number” or “move value?” Likewise should only one term be used for attack, defense, and range as well?

And again to quote the weary Spartacus card, why would it say “add one . . . add 1” in the same sentence! It is absurd! He had plenty of room on his card to write out exactly what was needed, so it is not like Master Win Chiu Woo’s card where he had to use “add 1" instead of “add one” to save some space. Again, I think the lack of consistency in the wording may have contributed to Spartacus’ lack of playing time.

Also, it should be noted that only the word “one” is ever written out. Any higher number will always be listed as such - hence, we see “2” instead of “two.” Also, adding a single die can also be stated with the articles “an” or “a,” and also by using “additionally” or “extra.” These latter two I have found to be some of the most confusing terms in the entire rules, and here’s why: they imply a knowledge of a previous number which is not (usually) explicitly stated.

Saying “add 1 to her attack” (Shiori) does not inherently address to what “1” refers, and therefore is not exactly the same as saying “add 1 die to their normal attack” (Sir Gilbert). In the first case, an unassuming reader may interpret, through no fault of their own, the “add 1" to refer to the number of skulls rolled, similar to the Minions of Utgar. Or perhaps the reader may think that the “add 1 to her attack” could refer to her Special Attack, which as we all know is impossible since SPECIAL ATTACKS ARE NEVER MODIFIED; however, this WOULD NOT EVEN BE AN ISSUE if her card instead stated “add 1 die to her normal attack.”

It is quite similar to saying “additionally.” This term implies that we are adding to a value like the number of attack dice, but this is not always the case. Concan wants us to “roll an additional attack die,” and that is easy to follow, but vaguely defined terms like “hit” and “skull” can also be used, as in the Omnicron Snipers “all skulls rolled count for one additional hit” and Ornak’s “each Utgar symbol rolled counts for an additional skull.” Indeed, skulls “cause” hits, so we can think of the special “additional hit skulls” as a term in itself in which implies two hits instead of one.

So when Hatamoto Taro’s Heroic Defense Aura says that “each Einar symbol rolled counts as an additional shield,” we can translate that here to mean 2 shields, because otherwise they could have (and should have) just “counts as a shield.” So playing that way, which I believe is how it should be played given Hamtaro’s number of points, the samurai rock even harder than most of you seem to believe. Just picture a Gladiatron attacking Kaemon Awa with 2 out of 3 skulls, and Kaemon Awesome rolling one shield and one Einar symbol, for a total of three shield - Counterstrike! Or if you prefer, the Ashigaru, with their measly 1 defense die, can also block 2 skulls from an adjacent normal attack with the luck of an Einar symbol, which gives them hope for a brighter future.

So you see, the wording on the card does indeed make a big difference. I don’t blame the makers of the game for this - after all, it was probably their countless hours adjusting the powers and points to be perfect that left the final wording with edited pieces from all the design steps (also, I would like to be a game designer one day, and I know the job could be quite demanding at times) - but I do want to bring it to their attention so future releases may benefit from a consistency that was heretofore lacking.

Case closed.

[Sisyphus]

Ughhh. Lay off the red font please.

[BurnyFlame]

Sorry Sisyphus. I changed part of it just for you!

[Shades fan]

Originally Posted by Sisyphus

Ughhh. Lay off the red font please.

Yeah I was kind of turned off of this post because of it.
But besides this,I kind of think this is stating the obvious.
Sorry I just didn't really find it helpful.

[rdhight]

I agree with the main point of this post: Heroscape templating just plain smells. I think the reason Spartacus' card looks particularly bad is that at one point, they were trying to adhere to a rule of referring to dice with numerals and many other things with spelled-out numbers (or at least a one, 2, 3... progression). But then they don't follow even that rule on other cards. I looked at "1" vs. "one" and other similar stuff when I was getting started in custom making, trying to make my customs read as official as possible, and I was pretty irritated to find that the card writers apparently couldn't be bothered to establish a style guide. In my work, I'm writing short-lived newspaper articles that get browsed one day and used to wrap fish the next, and there's always a right way and a wrong way for me to express every number. Doing it the same way every time is not too much to ask by any stretch! The fact that Hasbro couldn't be bothered to follow self-made rules on cards that we're going to keep and be reading closely for years is annoying.

On the other hand, I think the special ability text in Marvel, Wave 7, and SotM is quite good in most respects. Hopefully, we'll see continued improvements in the card writing.

Originally Posted by Shades fan

Yeah I was kind of turned off of this post because of it.

I usually just highlight the text of his posts, unless they're real short.

[Junge Roman]

Interesting. If nothing else, you've done the homework for WOTC to go back and edit all the cards when they release their "revised" edition (please no.)

Hatamoto would indeed be strong when played that way.

[rym]

Originally Posted by BurnyFlame

So when Hatamoto Taro’s Heroic Defense Aura says that “each Einar symbol rolled counts as an additional shield,” we can translate that here to mean 2 shields, because otherwise they could have (and should have) just “counts as a shield.” So playing that way, which I believe is how it should be played given Hamtaro’s number of points, the samurai rock even harder than most of you seem to believe. Just picture a Gladiatron attacking Kaemon Awa with 2 out of 3 skulls, and Kaemon Awesome rolling one shield and one Einar symbol, for a total of three shield - Counterstrike! Or if you prefer, the Ashigaru, with their measly 1 defense die, can also block 2 skulls from an adjacent normal attack with the luck of an Einar symbol, which gives them hope for a brighter future.

So is this how everyone plays Hatamoto Taro? If so, he is indeed more powerful than before. I always assumed that "additional shield" meant in addition to the actual shields rolled on the Einer Dice. Am I wrong?
(Not trying to hijack thread, but the example was brought up here)

[NecroBlade]

No, that is not the right way to play HamTaro. By the same logic, Ornak's offensive aura provides 2 skulls for every symbol rolled. I think we can agree that isn't right.

[BurnyFlame]

No, I believe they are different. Ornak's power say: "Each Utgar symbol rolled counts for an additional skull," whereas HamTaro's says: "Each Einar symbol rolled counts as an additional shield," the key difference being "for" instead of "as." (We won't go into how Ornak is supposed to be played yet, I just want to show that, at least in wording, they are different.)

Counting "for" something means adding onto something else, meaning that Ornak's symbols add on to the number of skulls rolled. On the other hand, counting "as" something means taking its place. So HamTaro's symbols should be taken to mean "additional shield[s]." Now reading the Sentinels of Jandar's card, it says "counts for an additional block," and this must mean more than just "counts as a block," otherwise their power is null. Now the only step left to make this work is to say that "shields = blocks," which I don't think can be denied. Therefore, HamTaro's symbols must count as more than just single shields, namely, 2 shields (or "additional shields" if you prefer).

But perhaps the strongest point I can make is that they would have just said "counts as a shield." This is clearly not the same as counting "as an additional shield" because additional blocks, additional hits, and so forth have all been shown to be more than what a regular block, hit, etc. can do.

And have you seen his point value? I think that is telling us something.

[Is there a splitting hairs smiley?]

[NecroBlade]

You're imposing your own definitions on "for" and "as" and assuming they're right, while I would bet good money they are meant to mean the same thing. The Creators have simply not yet learned to be consistent. Yes, they probably should have said "counts as a shield" instead of "counts as an additional shield" but that is by no means proof they meant it differently. "Additional" simply means in addition to natural shields rolled. I do not see how that implies TWO additional. Further, if they had wanted the two abilities (HamTaro and Ornak) to be so different, they would have stated it more clearly than with a single word "difference."

[Rÿchean]

Congratulations NecroBlade! You officially took the bait.

To Burnyflame, overuse of red text diminishes its affect, but a person of your boastful intelligence should already knows this. I must assume you value annoyance over clarity and presentation. Brilliant! Also, I believe you may be too smart for Heroscape. I recommend your local game store or BGG.com to find a game with more meat, more consistency, and a much thicker rule book. Enjoy!

[Grungebob]

Originally Posted by BurnyFlame

Sorry Sisyphus. I changed part of it just for you!

Change your font to black please, or risk having your posts deleted.