Raids metagame discussion

[Kaemon Awa 123]

As many of you know, the Raids of Vahalla is up and running, and accepting submissions. Raid maps are small compact maps designed with only 16 starting hexes, 8 lighter than the BoV. The army sizes that are recommended for these maps, and the totals they are tested at is from 200 to 350 points.

Now, how do you think this would affect the units you see showing up on Saturdays for a tournament, or in your typical friendly match? I have my own thoughts of course, but I would like to hear your opinions.

[The_X_Marker]

This is going to have a profound effect on what units are chosen. If half your army is one hero, that's a big risk to take. With 200 point armies, Q9 and Marcu might make a solid duo, however that's only 2 figures.

A lot of it is going to be cheap squads, as the expensive squads can't really be drafted in multiples. At 300-350 points, I can, however, see 2x minions and Atlaga being the army, or the core.

The starting zone doesn't seem to be small enough for it to change much. It prevents giant swarm armies, but realistically, there isn't enough points to spend on big swarms of effective units. Sure, you can fill up the spaces, but a special attack hero is probably needed anyway. With 200 point armies, it'll probably be 2 squads and a hero in the best of them, while 350 point games might see a hero and 4 squads, or 2 heroes and 4 squads if the points can fit it.

Depending on map size, melee armies might dominate. Smaller maps means less chasing the arrow flinging, gun toting denizens of Valhalla around the map. It's hard to run when your opponent can get there just as fast as you.

Finally, and I'll leave it off here, bonding will be even bigger in this point format. It isn't just moving a few army units with a bonded turn, its going to be more like moving entire armies, or half your army in a single turn. I see the Orcs excelling in this point format.

[elvenwizard9]

The best army core:

Krug- 120
Arrow Gruts x2- 80

If it is 250-300 points, draft Swogs and possibly another squad of Arrow gruts. If it is 350, I would take a couple of Swogs and Raelin. I can easily see the Gruts clogging up the map and Krug taking out a heavy hero.

Maybe I should try the Raids at my next club meeting...

[Son of Arathorn]

I personally find that playing with smaller armies on smaller maps makes the game more fun and more challenging. every decision made has a greater impact than it normally would.

[Jexik]

Even fewer people will play the Incredible Hulk.

[Son of Arathorn]

Originally Posted by Jexik

Even fewer people will play the Incredible Hulk.

Considering RoV recommends maps use 200-350 point armies, I don't know that he could be used...

[Kaemon Awa 123]

Originally Posted by Son of Arathorn

Considering RoV recommends maps use 200-350 point armies, I don't know that he could be used...

I think that Jexik's post was supposed to be funny.


Now, as for my thoughts, I certainly agree with the Hero + 2 squads core. Bonding especially, it's a huge advantage to be able to move most of your army, however I would say that the larger benefit is that you have one place to put your OMs, a lost turn or misplaced OM is a huge loss in a smaller game, which again adds to the enhanced strategic value.

That being said, well-crafted armies without bonding have the potential to win a lot if they are played right, while Romans x2, Marcus, MBS is an excellent 250 army, it can be beaten by WoA x2, Syvarris, Arkmer if the second is OM managed correctly. However, if someone messes up the OMs, then the Romans will win.

Now, a quick rundown of some of the best units I found in my playtesting... (In no particular order)


SQUADS
-Arrow Gruts
-Blade Gruts
-Romans
-WoA
-Dwarves (Darrak +2x = 200, Migol + 2x = 250)
-Ashigaru Harqs (Suprisingly good, pair with SA hero
-Tagawa Archers
-Death Chasers
-Death Knights
-Spiders (Just a guess, didn't test)
-Heavies (Though less than Blades)
-Horned Skull Brutes (Again, untested)
-Izumis
-Marro Warriors
-Stingers
-Phantom Knights (Pair with unbonding melee)
-Nagrubs
-Venocs (often sans Warlord)
-Zombies (Speculative)

HEROES:
-Marcus
-Krug
-MBS
-Grimnak
-Nerak
-TKN
-Shotgun Sullivan
-James Murphy
-Jotun (Paired with Murphy for 300 is really good)
-Wyrmlings (especially Reds/Blacks)
-Dund (Has potential, lots of bonding)
-Mind Flayer (Again, against bonding)

[Margloth]

For a small format game, this might make for an interesting army core:

Eldgrim (30)
Knights of Weston (100)
Alistair MacDirk (210)
MacDirk Warriors (290)

Eldgrim heads out with the Knights, gets killed, and goes on Alistair. Alistair bonds with remaining knights, picking up wounds and overextending until knights are whittled down, then MacDirks bat clean up... spend the remaining points as you see fit (Tarns might fit well, or Marro Warriors for range).

I could also see Samurai + Raelin doing well, as it would be difficult with less points to break that defense.

[Therion]

Originally Posted by Margloth

For a small format game, this might make for an interesting army core:

Eldgrim (30)
Knights of Weston (100)
Alistair MacDirk (210)
MacDirk Warriors (290)

Eldgrim heads out with the Knights, gets killed, and goes on Alistair. Alistair bonds with remaining knights, picking up wounds and overextending until knights are whittled down, then MacDirks bat clean up... spend the remaining points as you see fit (Tarns might fit well, or Marro Warriors for range).

I don't know, I think it'd work better to go with either Knights or Macdirk, but not both. And on a smaller map, Alistair is just going to be easier to kill. The Knights still have speed as their main weakness, making Bert necessary.

Sir Gilbert--105
KoW*2----245

Those guys add up fast. And now it isn't even close to the same army. How about:

Alistair MacDirk-------110
MacDirk Warriors*2---270

Those are even worse. But that does leave you those 30 points for Eldgrim. If the point totals go to 350, you could throw in Raelin for the much-needed defense, or Thorgrim for defense and another bonding hero.

[Kaiser Cat]

ROMAN LEIGONAIRESx3-150/12
ME-BURQ-SA-200/14
MARCUS DECIMUS GALLUS-300/15

SONLEN-160/1
DEATHREAVERSx2-240/9
WHITE WYRMLINGx2-300/11

VENOC WARLORD-120/1
VENOC VIPERSx4-280/13
MARCU ESENWEIN-300/14

Naturally, you people all know I have been writing my armies with capslock ever since I came to the forums?

[Margloth]

KoW's low move isn't such a factor on a small map.

Kaiser raises a good point, though. Legionaires can turtle on small maps, and their move isn't such a factor, so they'd be a defensive/offensive force.

Vipers would be oppressively offensive. I see this format as rewarding 1st strikes a great deal more.

Also interesting to note that OM placement / figure movement would change in this format. It's much less important to maintain the 'wave approach' if the map is small and you can quickly bring up reinforcements from the startzone.

[Johngee]

This is an interesting discussion that brought up many good points to ponder. Personnally... I'm all in favor or LARGER Maps, BIGGER Armies, and NO Order Markers. It makes HS more like a traditional War Game, especially if you stick to themed armies: i.e.
Sir Dendrik plus 10x KoW = 800 pt.;
Allistair MacDirk plus x 8x MacDirks + 1x Vikings = 800;
Marcus Decimus Gallus plus 14x Roman Legionaires = 800;
Cyprien and Sonya Essenwein plus 10x Zombies of Morindan = 800; etc.
BUT GOOD LUCK with your smaller maps and units, I'm sure it leads to faster and more frequent games.