Just_a_Bill's Customs — latest: Ru-Wa-Na (Marro behemoth)

[Just_a_Bill]

Thanks for the feedback!

Originally Posted by AMIS

Unleashed fury on this unique hero is interesting and that's very cool...instead of auto destruct may I suggest the loss of 2 life instead?

I realize it's a harsh outcome, but there are two good things about it: (1) It helps balance out the possibility of multiple attacks of 10, and (2) it strengthens the incentive to use Khosumet. Also, if I make any change to the power at all, I have to change its title since it would no longer be the existing Unleashed Fury. And if that happens, then Khosumet can no longer enhance it. At that point, since the Khosumet tie-in was the whole point of adding this power, I'd probably go back to the two-power version. It's sort of a catch-22.

Originally Posted by AMIS

Whirlwind Reach is quite powerful when combined with Unleashed Fury...in theory that could be 10 attacks on...a whole bunch of figures (math was never my strong suit) unless the two powers are not meant to be combined which would need to be mentioned.

They are definitely intended to be combined. But while there are 22 spaces within two hexes of a double-spaced figure, there's no way you could ever attack anywhere near that many targets. Ru-Wa-Na has no special powers to help him force his way into the middle of a pack, and the opponent has no incentive to cluster around him that densely. Even if RWN did somehow find himself in the middle of a ton of figures on the same turn he rolled a 20 for Unleashed Fury, he still couldn't attack them all due to the rule that being engaged prevents ranged attacks. Unless he killed literally every adjacent figure, of course, but that just adds yet another probability requirement on top of all the others.

Not to say it couldn't happen, but it would be very rare. (And very memorable.)

[AMIS]

22 spaces!!! I knew it was a bunch
The best you'd be able to do is probably around 10 but even that's epic.
I get that's a next to impossibility to have Reached Swing hit 22 figures (and normally Ju-St-Ab-Ll would be launching himself into the fray so would need empty spots to get into) but even the possibility of such a wide spread attack IMHO would make for an overtly high point cost, even with Unleashed Fury's auto-kill. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your point of view) there are turtling armies that could be destroyed by this one figure.

I expected the answer on Unleashed Fury but normally do not mix marro with other races, even Utgar's. And you're right it does provide a boost to K-dog.

I think you'd have to look around the 180-200 point range (possibly more if not for Unleashed Fury) for the figure. This wouldn't stop me from taking it and chances are I'd be the person rolling 1 on Unleashed Fury on the first move of the game and I'd still take him on my next army.
While others may complain they could get 3 Stinger squads for that price...they're also using 7 more start zones and only moving 3 of the stingers at a time so that's not even in the same realm. The combination of Stingers and Ru-Wa-Na (still pushing the name change to Ju-St-Ab-Ll ) would be an awesome 360-380 base of an army.

This is an awesome custom.

[Just_a_Bill]

Originally Posted by AMIS

there are turtling armies that could be destroyed by this one figure.

Let's hope so; I'm not a fan of turtling.

make for an overtly high point cost

Well, his cost already is high if you account for his dependency on Khosumet (125+75=200) plus some Nagrubs (230, 260...?), especially in light of his below-average Life for a Hivelord. He also has a lower Move than all other figures in that class; combined with his double base and lack of flying/stomping/leaping abilities, this lower mobility means it's gonna be hard to get him to a place where he can get high utility from his Whirlwind Reach. (Just crawling up one level of elevation requires 60% of his Move.)

This is all intentional, and designed to apply significant disadvantages against his unprecedented ability to potentially punch everything within range 2.

Given all that, the more I think about the Khosumet synergy the more I'm starting to accept that this is an unnecessary complication. The original design vision had nothing to do with Khozzy, and I have allowed the Darklord to seduce me away from this Hivelord's true focus. RWN is a massive windmill of limbs, and that's what the card should be about.

Coming back to this focus made me realize that if his arms are good enough to hit multiple targets at range 2, then they should also be good enough to scoop up multiple Nagrubs at range 2. And this dovetails nicely with his intentional liability of below-average Life. I think RWN can further carve out his own space by being a Hivelord that can recover two Life per turn. So let's see what that might look like on the card:



EDIT: At first I called the new power HIVELORD'S FEAST, but then I realized that such a title should be saved for more "normal" Hivelords that might eat extra Nagrubs but not have monstrous arms. So I changed it to 'GRUB GATHERING since that seems to work for gathering more as well as farther. Now I imagine that 'Grub Gathering is a variant of Hivelord's Feast which also adds 1 to the "range" of grub-eating.

_________________________________________________________________

— Clarifications —

Q: When Ru-Wa-Na destroys 2 Marrden Nagrubs via 'GRUB GATHERING, does he remove 2 wound markers?

A: Yes (or 1 marker if he has only one wound). The wound-removing part of HIVELORD LIFE BONDING is mandatory and it applies every time a Nagrub is destroyed in this manner. Ru-Wa-Na is not really destroying 2 Nagrubs at the same time; he is destroying 1, removing a wound if possible, and then repeating that process ("do so 1 additional time").

[AMIS]

'Grub Gathering is a much better power for Ru-Wa-Na (aka Ju-St-Ab-ll). Quick note: "Each chosen Nagrub must be within 2 spaces..."

I'm still concerned about the point value but play testing will work that out and shut me up .

[Just_a_Bill]

Originally Posted by AMIS

This is an awesome custom.

Thanks for the encouragement!

Originally Posted by AMIS

(still pushing the name change to Ju-St-Ab-Ll )

I know you're just kidding, and of course naming a custom after myself would feel rather narcissistic. However, I'm not above embedding wordplay and/or references to others into a unit's name, and the original designers also did this a lot. In fact, I put a lot of effort (and some wordplay) into this one, so here's the story for anyone who might care.

The name began with its third syllable already set, since all male Hivelords end in -Na; this became rule #1. Because this is such an unusual sculpt, at first I tried introducing new consonants not previously used in Marro names. This experiment produced some okay results, some pretty awful ones like Gur-Ja-Na & Vo-Juk-Na, and some even worse ones I'd rather not confess.

After those failures, I decided that rule #2 would be to limit my consonants to only those already used as Marro syllable-starters (B,G,K,M,N,R,S,Sh,T,W), and also started thinking about this figure's vague similarity to Wo-Sa-Ga's body shape. I hoped for a subtle nuance of connectedness between the two snake-shaped Marro, and a good way to do that seemed to be to use a W in the middle syllable (rule #3), since WSG is the only existing Marro that has that letter. I also decided I wanted to make each syllable exactly 2 letters (rule #4) to further the subtle connection with Wo-Sa-Ga.

As I started playing around within those four rules, I realized there was an opportunity for wordplay that actually satisfied all of them. (Once again showing how design constraints often improve creativity.) You can discover the "hidden reference" with this little exercise: Adopt a refined British accent that drops Rs at the ends of words while you speak and finish this sentence: "The sculpt for Ru-Wa-Na is the Eldrazi ______."

[caps]

I was going to suggest splitting Whirlwind and Reach back out into two powers. Whirlwind Reach feels very much like mashing two powers together. I do kind of like Grub Gathering, but if you were to keep it I would suggest dropping the Whirlwind Attack. I kind of like that, actually, because this doesn't look like the kind of graceful figure that would have Whirlwind Attack.

[Just_a_Bill]

First, thanks for the feedback, Caps. I realize I'm coming back to this thread really late, but here I am so might as well post.

Originally Posted by caps

Whirlwind Reach feels very much like mashing two powers together.

Yep, it feels that way because that's exactly what it does. I don't think that's a problem in and of itself, though. Heroscape has plenty of examples of powers being combined or embedded inside each other. Disengage, in particular, is embedded in everything from Stealth Flying to Swamp Water Tunnel to Incantation of Boiling Blood. From my perspective, what matters is whether they blend harmoniously, fit the theme, and don't cause a gameplay problem.

Originally Posted by caps

this doesn't look like the kind of graceful figure that would have Whirlwind Attack.

You may be right that RWN doesn't need or shouldn't have this ability, but I feel like that debate should center on gameplay considerations. The canon doesn't require or even suggest limiting this ability to "graceful-looking" figures. Sure, it's easy to think first of Raelin and the monks, but Whirlwind Attack/Assault (under its various names) also shows up on Azazel, Siege, and any number of slobbering Orc squaddies boiling from Kuthnak's incantation.

Having said that, the title of course doesn't have to use the word "whirlwind." Siege, Kuthnak, Master Woo, and the Shaolins all use different titling. I just felt like using the "standard" words from the two titles made the power approachable by telling you exactly what it does right in the title (if you're already familiar with the other units, of course) -- and reducing the need for Q&A, or at least reducing the answer to basically "Yes, in the weird situation you have imagined, WHIRLWIND REACH still works just like REACH."

It's kinda hard for me to look at any several-limbed melee figure -- an octopus, Tars Tarkas, Doc Ock, whatever -- and not think well first off, Whirlwind Assault seems like a pretty solid theme fit. Doesn't mean it's the right gameplay fit, of course.

[Shiftrex]

Could always just make a special attack that hits all enemies within 2 spaces with a height restriction.

[ThrasherDarkrai]

Very late to this, but I love the concept of Ru-Wa-Na. Marro are awesome, and using the Eldrazi Ruiner as a base is a truly inspired idea. Since it doesn't look like Renegade is going to give us more Marro anytime soon (besides Bok-Bur-Na, who doesn't even play nicely with my perfectly fine preexisting Marro! Boo!), I'd love to see a custom like this fill the gap.

[Good Pig]

Originally Posted by Shiftrex

Could always just make a special attack that hits all enemies within 2 spaces with a height restriction.

Yes. Or reusing Wild Swing Special Attack from Jotun.

The thing that's a bit brutal with Whirlwind Assault with a range of 2 is potentially how many attack and defense rolls you'd slog through. A special attack could condense it to one attack roll. Should consider whether or not this guy is on a double spaced too. This would add to his reach. The is all theory and play testing should help understand if this is a real concern.

This is a cool idea for a repaint. I'm interested to see where you go with it.