Tournament Map Feedback Thread

[superfrog]

Season 54 map thoughts:

Underwood (GameBear):
Yes, we massacred your baby by leaving off your custom glyphs. I still mostly enjoyed the map but a few criticisms (climbing for melee is too slow, the level 4/5 topside is potentially too dominant) really are negated by using your specified glyphs (including Astrid). Sorry we're wimps over in OHS. I think the main thing that sticks out to me as a yellow flag is the level 2 grass running back towards the SZ, as that seems relatively difficult to approach and thus a nice spot for cheerleaders. The level 3 road on the glyph side of the map (specifically the two hexes each side that don't give up adjacent height) also seem to have no real counters. I'm not sure making the grass there level 4 would help as the pathing there is important, but if there was any way of lowering those 4 road hexes to level 2 I think that might smooth that side a bit.

[Foudzing]

OST4 map:
Healing Waters @OEAO version:
Fine map and quite original but gotta admit I'm not the biggest fan. I think options are somewhat limited and map feels a bit clunky for melee figures.

OHS54 maps:
Underwood by @GameBear
Small, solid and simple map, nothing incredible but does its job very well, great for smaller armies and testing dutties. Nothing to add great map imo.

Venom by @Flash_19
I confirm I am not a fan of Venom, I think the map often leads to situations where neither player wanna advance. It's also kinda big making the low move+range figures kinda hard to play.

OST5 map:
Artic Abyss by @RainyDays
My game on it was one sided due to dice but I feel this is a great "2 hills 3 zones" map in my opinion. I wasn't confident by looking at it but actually I feel all 3 "zones" are interesting, incent to advance toward ennemy is high, micro positionning choices are numerous and interesting. I would love to play on it again!

[Foudzing]

OST5 map: Aeon by @Flash_19
As opposed to venon, the more I play on Aeon, the more I like it, it's becoming one of my fav. It's the the perfect 2 hills map to me. Lots of choices and possibilities.

OHS54 map: Zephyr @OEAO version
To be fair not a fan of this map, there is some features I like (glyph on level 2) but some features I don't like (SZ borderred by level 0, top side easily "closable"). I also think the map is too one-dimensionnal (which is often a problem in mirror symmetry maps).

[Foudzing]

OST5 map:
Thermal Shock by @Vydar_XLIII
Excellent map in my opinion with original aestetics, the sides were a bit of a trap in my game but I could see them being relevant with another glyph/armies setup. Not much more to say without playing more on it. Thank you for the map I had a blast.

OHS54 map:
Ticalla Sunrise by @GameBear
Played this map 4 times in total this week, 3 to test bring 2 machup and 1 the actual game vs dok, it's the first time (in I dunno how many games) that I think the "range friendlyness" of the map skewed the machup a bit. It's quite hard for a melee army to go dive in the SZ, sure Wannok is here to not have to do that, but I THINK the map would be even better with some slight ajustments around both startzones in order to make a "dive into opponnent startzone" play a tad easier. Just my honest opinion, still an excellent map.

[Sir Heroscape]

Some really good map feedback from our last CCL Qualifier this last weekend. Cross-posting here.

FROM DUNADAIN
Arboretum - felt good, tricky to get large armies out due to the water, overall felt well balanced. Only issue is the two level 4s felt a bit too strong
Flash fire redux - road controlled the flow of the game, good height on the sides but I made it easily around the sides and middle due to the sheer volume of road. Maybe too easy, but I enjoyed the pace

Dominion - like flash fire, road dictated the battleground and flow of the game, but the rest of the map was easy to traverse and was used quite a lot to either flank the enemy or get height with the molten lava

No Aloha - good balance of height and shadow/jungle terrain, of the 4 maps I played this seemed to have the biggest amount of area used. There was height throughout but nothing felt to strong or inaccessible

FROM SHEEP
I didn't play all of them today obviously but I played all of them in practice:

Arboretum - The yours mine 9-hexes are fairly easy to backfill and felt more difficult than necessary to assail.

Dominion - Fast paced through the center. Going up and down and moving around the 7-hex lavas can be frustrating

Flash Fire Redux - Definitely pulls left for 5-move figures but plays solid. Not having 3 power glyphs on the map is nice lol

Mirocco - I'd like to play on this one with a different glyph setup. Holdir just isn't enough to draw you into the shadow pool. Even if the glyphs were switched the action would've been much more spread out. As was, mostly a lesser Zephyr problem. I like the map a lot though!

No Aloha - I've always been a fan of No Aloha. Always said that the outcrop in the SZ should be water and the base should be used as shadow somewhere.

The End of the Line - Solid. Also pulls left. Tight LoS throughout the map.

FROM SHURRIG
Hard to say since my army largely comprised of 8 move double spaced and 3 move figures. But, based off the tournament play and my practice games...

__Arboretum:__ I liked playing on this map. Aesthetically unique, though the long ruin felt awkward for my army. The level 4's were in very good spots for my granite guardians so i was hoping to play it in tournament. Would play on again

__Dominion:__ Solid map but it seemed very easy to get choked up for double spacers. Not sure how I feel about the level 4 lava, sure you risk the lava damage but its still difficult to contend against range on those due to the sides having those dips. Would probably play on again

__Flash Fire:__ This was one of my least played maps before the tournament so I dont remember much, but if I'm remembering correctly it was a bit two-hillsy for my liking. Would probably on again, but I think a couple tweaks could make this map a lot more dynamic.

__Mirocco:__ This was one of my favorite maps out of the bunch. I never grabbed holdir due to my army comp, but I did use the shadow pool to set my templars up for a charge plenty of times. Would play on again

__No Aloha__: No Aloha has superb theming/aesthetics, and plays about as good as it looks. Jungle/shadow is super well placed and was easy to navigate, even for my Granite Guardians. Would play on again

__The End of the Line__ Kind of a similar deal with Arboretum, Those center level 4's felt nice for my army. Aesthetically is competing a bit with Remains of Clionesia, but I think I'd prefer to play on this map. I'd like to play more games on it before I know how to feel, but I quite like it. Would play on again

FROM GREY WAVES
I wasn’t a huge fan of Dominion; it feels like the action is almost completely centred around the level 3 road in the middle.

I had no major complaints about any of the other maps

[Typhon2222]

Great of you to gather and post this feedback, @Sir_Heroscape.

[Shurrig]

After a weekend of 'scaping at Scapecon East, I have some feedback to give on the map pool! I played around 18 games over the weekend on these 14 maps, and some of them were maps I'd never played on in person. I'll be brief where I can be, but I still have plenty of thoughts I'd like to share.

Remains of Clionesia — A classic, yes, but man is it annoying for 4-movers to develop. Powerful glyphs help, but it doesn’t feel good to split your army up like that. Oftentimes you’ll just go one way and the other side of the map won’t see much play. Not one of my favorites.

Wyrmwalk— This map and Percolator were the only two maps I didn’t get to play on in tournament, but I’ve played on them before so I can still give my thoughts. Wyrmwalk is a surprisingly beautiful map, the Virtualscape render makes it look quite disorganized, but seeing it in person leaves you with a much different impression. That being said, I was less than pleased with how painfully chokey the middle of the map plays, specifically by that level 4 2-hex lava between the 3-hex and single hex rock outcrop, range can kinda just ping you for free there if you’re not careful. It’s a map that if you’ve played on it before, you understand how to avoid those problems, but I like maps that are fair from the jump but still provide dynamic options. I wouldn’t say I dislike Wyrmwalk, it’s certainly unique in its design, but I’d need to play more tournament games on it to know how I feel for sure.

Platypus— The jungle is well placed to get you out of the start zone, the height feels easy to get to, and the wings around the 4-hex glaciers are tight but the games were often so fast that we didn’t mind the glyphs anyway. I like platypus, but in my opinion there was a better swarm/snow/jungle map I played this weekend…

Highways and Dieways— What can I say about this map that hasn’t already been said? Plain and simple, there’s a reason that when you think competitive Heroscape maps you think of Highways and Dieways.

Bad Moon Rising— Really great map. Start zones take some thinking to get out for 4-movers but I had very dynamic games both times I played on it and aesthetically it’s one of my favorites out the entire map pool of Scapecon East.

Fulcrum— Playing on Fulcrum is just frustrating. I played three games on this map during tournament and winning/losing on it never felt deserved. From my experience, going into the left pool of water out the SZ is a death sentence. Krav ran a train against my team by securing one of the hills and blasting down on my figures. Going right is the only option that makes sense, and you might lose if your opponent gets to their hill first. If there was one map I’d recommend removing from the WoS, it’d be Fulcrum. For casual play, sure, it’s fine, but I’d sleep better at night knowing I’d never have to play another sweaty game on this map ever again.

Invasion— I dislike when I’m forced to develop one way on a map, and Invasion is an example of a map that does just that. RIP to any double-spaced non-flyers that want to get past the middle hills, it’s just too easy to abuse and clog those points for certain matchups.

Draugur— Similar to Platypus, the glyph areas are pretty tight and the middle is split by the glacier, creating four separate lanes through the center. I like it more than Platypus though, as I think the melee/range matchup is fairer since there’s ample shadow in the middle and the LOS blockers are placed well.

Percolator— As I said earlier, I did not play on this map at Scapecon East, but it’s one of my recent faves so i’ve been playing a lot of games on it in my free time. Just a really solid x1 RotV/x1 TJ map and, in my opinion, it’s leagues better than Fulcrum.

Canary— Both armies tended to develop up the 7-hex out the right side of the start zone. It seems to be the best way to develop, but there’s plenty of jungle/shadow to move into on the left to counter it. The amount of shadow next to jungle feels really balanced and the map overall played real smooth.

Odin Wept— Despite how much it goes against my own personal rules/tastes when it comes to map design, I’m always impressed with how much Typhon can get away with with such a limited terrain combo. Those 24-hexes a placed quite precariously, but just getting them up to level 2 is quite the achievement. My games on Odin Wept were fun even though I was 0-2 on it for the weekend, and neither losses felt like they were the map’s fault. It’s quite small which is good for melee and I really enjoyed the interactions between the lava and shadow tiles here. If it were at all possible to open up that level 2 lane of shadow to prevent the lava speed bump it’d make me like the map that much more, but as it is it’s still quite good.

Forest Fire (v4)— Unfortunately my one game on Forest fire was probably the quickest game of Heroscape I’ve ever played, lasting a total of 5 Turns (for context, this was during the Assassinate Syvarris tournament against Dragon Ruler) so my feedback will be quite limited. Given that, my main concern is that it’s a big map that under utilizes its LOS blockers. Other than that, I think I’d need to play a slightly longer game on it to get a true sense of how it plays.

Frostmire— I think Frostmire does the swamp/snow/jungle combo better than Platypus. It’s simple in appearance but quite vibrant in its gameplay. the 2-hex perch is just forward enough to make it vulnerable to melee but still a spot that got a lot of use from both sides. The whole thing plays more open, including the edges. On top of that, it’s one of the prettier maps I played on during Scapecon East, so it gets brownie points for that. I should note that Frostmire and Platypus do play differently, but when there are two maps in a pool that share similar aesthetics it’s hard not to compare them. I’m looking forward to playing this one again.

Burial Marsh: OEAO Edition— I really wish I could have gotten more games on Burial Marsh, my one game on it was very close and went to points. However, I do think this version is a straight up improvement from the original, smoothing out the exits of the start zone and sides really help clean up the gameplay. That being said, I think the one drawback of this map could be how far away the start zones are from the action. I had Death Chasers in my game so it wasn’t such a big deal for me, but my opponent seemed to have a hard time reinforcing his army the way he wanted to. It could literally be the difference of just a couple hexes in length that could change this map drastically. As it stands though I was pleasantly surprised by this one and I’m looking forward to getting more games on it.

[Typhon2222]

Thanks for the feedback, @Shurrig . It's a service to the whole community.

[superfrog]

A couple maps I've played lately:

Guts by @Shurrig
I did not like this map as much as I hoped to. There is not much by way of elevation change, and the precious little amount of safe level 2 is all backed up against the SZs. This really disincentivizes moving forward for ranged armies and makes development awkward for melee swarms. What really bugged me in my games though was movement through the center being tough. The level 3 lava cuts off access to the center area in ways that felt slow even for move 6 figures. I would open a path between some of the level 3 here if at all possible.

Vulcan Ridge by @Chris Perkins
I threw this map into the OHS 55 pool after it was recommended by OEAO in our top 50 podcast from earlier this year. It played fine but not one of my favorites. Mostly I thought the distribution of lava heights and non-lava heights could be better: in my game lava was almost entirely avoided, especially the center 7-hex. That's due mostly to the large amount of safe level 3 which incentivizes going left.

No Aloha by @Ulysses
I actually didn't play this, just watched a few games (going back to the version played at CCL and then at our last SoCal event on Saturday). Positive feedback all around, and I really like the new level 3 arrangement on the edges.

Parallel by @Cleon
I've played this map before but got a chance to play it again this past weekend. In general I think it's quite good, one of the best few RotV/TT maps out there. My main complaint from my game was double-space movement through the center: there isn't quite as much level 3 there as would feel helpful. Lateral movement is also tough but I didn't mind that here. Shrinking those 7-hex glacier groups might be a small improvement there.

Grounds of Ashra by @Shurrig
This map does not look like it should work, and it actually kind of does work. Not enough to be a great map but still solid. My main complaints are lack of non-central height and tough movement into the opposing SZ due to water placement.

Odin Wept by @Typhon2222
I like this map. Gonna have to write a WoS review here soon...

End of the Line by @Sir Heroscape
I pulled this map out for some personal test games because I'm always looking for good 1 expansion RotV maps. This one looked promising but I think that the left lean on this map is too pronounced, especially with the wide level 2 chasm that makes for a lot of stare-offs in melee-melee matchups. I think raising some more center road to level 3, or having some more level 3 on the right side, would improve this map.

Bayou Bend by @RainyDays
This map caught my eye in the Hexicon contest but my enjoyment playing it has not matched my admiration looking at it. Mostly it boils down to there being too many "dead zones" where no figures end up going. One of these is the road behind the big blockers. For most figures, it's easier to get onto the central road by developing center than taking the road the entire long way around. The entire area above the road is also rarely used, except for the nicely placed 2-hex perches. My game also didn't see much action in the swamp water jungle area. Maybe better glyphs would have changed the interest in those areas, but I found the map kind of reduced down to fighting on the level 1/2 in the very center in a not-very-dynamic way.

[Shurrig]

Originally Posted by superfrog

A couple maps I've played lately:

Guts by @Shurrig
I did not like this map as much as I hoped to. There is not much by way of elevation change, and the precious little amount of safe level 2 is all backed up against the SZs. This really disincentivizes moving forward for ranged armies and makes development awkward for melee swarms. What really bugged me in my games though was movement through the center being tough. The level 3 lava cuts off access to the center area in ways that felt slow even for move 6 figures. I would open a path between some of the level 3 here if at all possible.

Grounds of Ashra by @Shurrig
This map does not look like it should work, and it actually kind of does work. Not enough to be a great map but still solid. My main complaints are lack of non-central height and tough movement into the opposing SZ due to water placement.

Always appreciate the feedback SF! It’s been great watching all the games I could on Guts this past week. I think the points you made are very solid, and I’m doing my best not to tinker with it until after Hexicon. I’m glad to GoA is still playable in 2023, definitely on my list of maps to revise next year.

[RainyDays]

Originally Posted by superfrog

Bayou Bend by @RainyDays
This map caught my eye in the Hexicon contest but my enjoyment playing it has not matched my admiration looking at it. Mostly it boils down to there being too many "dead zones" where no figures end up going. One of these is the road behind the big blockers. For most figures, it's easier to get onto the central road by developing center than taking the road the entire long way around. The entire area above the road is also rarely used, except for the nicely placed 2-hex perches. My game also didn't see much action in the swamp water jungle area. Maybe better glyphs would have changed the interest in those areas, but I found the map kind of reduced down to fighting on the level 1/2 in the very center in a not-very-dynamic way.

Thank you for your honest and insightful feedback on Bayou Bend! Your experience matches what I've encountered in my recent games on the map. Looks like some revisions will be in order to make play more dynamic.

Also, I believe Bayou Bend is being used in the current OST season. If anyone has feedback from their game on it it would be greatly appreciated!

[superfrog]

I do still think the concept is super cool and I hope it can be improved!