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  #85  
Old May 19th, 2011, 09:44 PM
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Re: Killometer's maps ~ Erosion added 5/11/11

Thanks for the detailed battle report, Robber. I'm glad you like the map and the battlement placement. Most of the battlements were placed to protect downhill units from engagement when they want to move past uphill units-I'm sure your WoA loved not having to worry about leaving engagement strikes!

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  #86  
Old May 20th, 2011, 06:57 AM
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Re: Killometer's maps ~ Erosion added 5/11/11

Yeah. I found I wasn't climbing the hill as much, mostly moving from my starting zone to the road or to the glyphs. However, my opponent set the battle up this way, and if I used other units that weren't just meant for engaging people and beating the stuffing out of them, I think I would have played there.

One of your best, most unique maps. I noticed a near-flying wing footprint, which is the map I feel most comfortable making and playing on. So I had a great time with this fast-paced and fun map.

Get it in some tournaments, let other people have fun with it, etc.

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  #87  
Old May 21st, 2011, 09:54 AM
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Re: Killometer's maps ~ Erosion added 5/11/11

Cool, I like it

Visually it reminds me of Elswin Plateau without needing a TJ, which is awesome for me.

I think I'll use it with the split start zones, I think that it'll draw some more play away from the road, which always seems to be cluttered in most maps I play on.

Definitely looking forward to this hitting the table in our summer gamedays.
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  #88  
Old May 21st, 2011, 01:26 PM
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Re: Killometer's maps ~ Erosion added 5/11/11

Thanks KA.

I found that using the split start zones can change the way this map plays a surprising amount. They can make a great forward outpost for slow moving units or Raelin, Astrid has a much more immediate impact, and Zelrig gets real scary real quick.

As far as where the action on the map takes place (with either start zone configuration) I knew that the road on height would tend to draw a lot of focus, which is why I used such a strong power glyph to spread the action across the lower part of the map-+1 attack tends to get people's attention.

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  #89  
Old May 23rd, 2011, 01:22 PM
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Re: Killometer's maps ~ Erosion added 5/11/11

Horseshoe Hill comments ported over from the My Time to Shine tournament threads...
Quote:
Originally Posted by clancampbell View Post
I played on Horseshoe Hill. I had seen it at Dad Scapers last event and thoughtit looked really neat. I didn't get to play on it though. So I suggested it for this event, and got a chance to play it.

I thought it was a good map and fun to play on. I'd deffinently use it at one of my events, or suggest it for others.
Thanks for suggesting it for a repeat MD appearance, and I'm glad you liked it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robber View Post
I played stingers vs Death Chasers at the other Savage tournament. Play is fast, fun, and competitive as everyone scrambles for the top. I love the map, and the ruins were placed very well.
Balancing the RotV ruins is always an adventure. I feel like the change in angles helped pull it off. I'm glad you agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaugville View Post
I played on Horseshoe Hill against kolakoski. I liked the map fine, but it was very suited to my army. I had Gorillas x3, Nakitas, Blade Gruts x2 and Otonashi, and he had the Werewolf Lord, several (3?) squads of wolves of badru and Syvarris. He brought the lord and some wolves around the corner on low ground first. I was able to engage him on my side of the board with orcs, and then hammer away at him with nakitas while the gorrillas took the high ground. I got some very lucky roles against the lord and killed him early. After that, it was just a matter of keeping as many wolves as possible engaged and when Syvarris took the high ground engaging him as well. The map seemed okay, though I don't think it worked well with David's army. It was hard for him to get his wolves around the bend on low ground without getting engaged. I think I would have had a lot more trouble with his army on a different map.

Stephen
Yeah, it does tend to favor the faster army. I've played on it with Romans, and against Zombies, and neither of those armies liked it very much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chas View Post
The maps were interesting and varied. I especially liked Horseshoe Hill; a simple and great concept. Imagine--I got nasty samurai all the way around the bend into my opponent's start zone, and still didn't win.
Simple in theory, difficult in execution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Since you guys are thirsting for feedback, I'll throw some out even though I wasn't there. Bear in mind that I'm just some poor shmuck who couldn't get out of the first round of the mapmaker contest.

I don't see any real issues with the unusual layout. It allows an extremely long map to fit on a standard table. No worries there.


However, the gameplay seems very one-note to me. The first army to get significant numbers on the high ground is going to win against any closely-matched army the majority of the time. There's one central high ground, and its sight lines are very good, and it has command of the sole glyph on the map. The ruins offer some protection, but most melee figures would have to emerge from the shadow of the ruin and expose themselves to a full turn of attacks from height before getting a chance to engage figures on the high ground. Heck, even a ranged army is going to have a hard time wresting control of the height from a force that is established there.

I would suggest moving the ruins closer to the high ground, to restrict the sight lines of figures there. I would also suggest moving the glyph farther away from the central high ground (going to two glyphs or having no glyphs are possibilities). I'd also create some intermediate high ground spots that are higher than the surrounding terrain but lower than the central height. All of these things would create more options in play and prevent the battle from being just a rush for the hill.
Thanks for the in-depth critique, dok.

Yeah, gameplay is pretty straight forward-get to the top of the hill. It's easy to fall into that trap with single RotV maps, which is why I tried to change it up with the unusual shape.

I've played it both with and without the glyph. Having a glyph helps pull armies away from just parking on the highest part of the map, but it also clogs the map up more. If I used two glyphs they would almost certainly end up placed in yours-and-mine positions. Maybe I can work out a way to drop it closer to the corner, while still making most units take 2 turns to get to it.

When I get a chance to revisit it more in-depth, I'll see what the leftover tiles look like, and see if I can vary the terrain leading up to the central hill a little more.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
About the maps:

I included Horseshoe Hill because it seems fair and it was requested by two attendees, including Dean Campbell. But I agree with dok that it does have the one note, and in a tournament where Zelrig or the Krav were likely to appear I might very well have declined to include it.

One interesting thought I had looking at that map is, what if you put a one hex bridge between the sides somewhere along the gap. *That* would be interesting.
It would be interesting...for whoever wins the first initiative. I think that a bridge any closer would allow ranged units to blast the opponent's start zone on OM1.

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Last edited by Killometer; May 23rd, 2011 at 01:40 PM.
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  #90  
Old May 23rd, 2011, 03:45 PM
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Re: Killometer's maps ~ Erosion added 5/11/11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killometer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
I don't see any real issues with the unusual layout. It allows an extremely long map to fit on a standard table. No worries there.


However, the gameplay seems very one-note to me. The first army to get significant numbers on the high ground is going to win against any closely-matched army the majority of the time. There's one central high ground, and its sight lines are very good, and it has command of the sole glyph on the map. The ruins offer some protection, but most melee figures would have to emerge from the shadow of the ruin and expose themselves to a full turn of attacks from height before getting a chance to engage figures on the high ground. Heck, even a ranged army is going to have a hard time wresting control of the height from a force that is established there.

I would suggest moving the ruins closer to the high ground, to restrict the sight lines of figures there. I would also suggest moving the glyph farther away from the central high ground (going to two glyphs or having no glyphs are possibilities). I'd also create some intermediate high ground spots that are higher than the surrounding terrain but lower than the central height. All of these things would create more options in play and prevent the battle from being just a rush for the hill.
Thanks for the in-depth critique, dok.

Yeah, gameplay is pretty straight forward-get to the top of the hill. It's easy to fall into that trap with single RotV maps, which is why I tried to change it up with the unusual shape.

I've played it both with and without the glyph. Having a glyph helps pull armies away from just parking on the highest part of the map, but it also clogs the map up more. If I used two glyphs they would almost certainly end up placed in yours-and-mine positions. Maybe I can work out a way to drop it closer to the corner, while still making most units take 2 turns to get to it.

When I get a chance to revisit it more in-depth, I'll see what the leftover tiles look like, and see if I can vary the terrain leading up to the central hill a little more.
I had the same thought about the potential for "yours and mine" glyphs. I don't particularly like that with random glyphs. If you want to take the glyphs out of easy shooting range of the top hill, the options would appear to be:
  1. No glyphs
  2. Significantly changing the map layout to create an alternative balanced glyph location
  3. Two fixed, identical glyphs (wannokx2?)
Those are the ones that come to mind, anyway.
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  #91  
Old May 23rd, 2011, 03:59 PM
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Re: Killometer's maps ~ Erosion added 5/11/11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killometer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
About the maps:

I included Horseshoe Hill because it seems fair and it was requested by two attendees, including Dean Campbell. But I agree with dok that it does have the one note, and in a tournament where Zelrig or the Krav were likely to appear I might very well have declined to include it.

One interesting thought I had looking at that map is, what if you put a one hex bridge between the sides somewhere along the gap. *That* would be interesting.
It would be interesting...for whoever wins the first initiative. I think that a bridge any closer would allow ranged units to blast the opponent's start zone on OM1.
As it's currently formulated, yes, that would be a problem. You are correct.

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  #92  
Old May 23rd, 2011, 04:03 PM
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Re: Killometer's maps ~ Erosion added 5/11/11

1. This is a viable option. The glyph is optional (and I think that it wasn't used at My Time to Shine last Saturday)

2. Meh. I like the general layout of this map. I'm going to look at improving some details, but the basic setup will remain the same. I have a minor adjustment that I'm going to see if I have the tiles for, but I don't want to do a major overhaul.

3. This is something that I'm also going to look at. I might be able to put one at each outermost corner.


That being said, it will be a little while before I get to this. I've finally found a setup for My Way or the Hiveway that I think I like, after several months of building and destroying, and I have some corrections to make to Stony Pass.

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  #93  
Old May 23rd, 2011, 08:41 PM
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Re: Killometer's maps ~ Erosion added 5/11/11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killometer View Post
....and I have some corrections to make to Stony Pass.
Oh nice. I really liked Stony Pass, for both concept and aesthetics. Looking forward to seeing what alterations emerge.
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  #94  
Old May 23rd, 2011, 08:50 PM
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Re: Killometer's maps ~ Erosion added 5/11/11

It won't be anything major-I just need to correct the number of shadow tiles used, and make sure 2-hex melee units can reach everywhere. The basic layout will be the same.

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  #95  
Old May 24th, 2011, 02:27 PM
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Re: Killometer's maps ~ Erosion added 5/11/11

From R˙chean's Map Challenge Round 2, Group B2 - Voting Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
I'm just gonna evaluate every map, since I think they're all pretty good and I think more discussion makes this contest better.
  • Erosion - a solid map in the tradition of Elswin Plateau and Turret Rocks. The battlement placements are good, although I suspect most walking armies will usually bypass the battlements by going for the road. The biggest issue I see is that Astrid is close enough to the height that armies can run most of their forces straight up the hill and then contest Astrid from there. If Astrid were three or four spaces farther from the height, this would be a very good map.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Killometer View Post
Thanks for the feedback on Erosion, dok.

The general flow of battles tended to fork out of the start zones-a few units bolt to Astrid, while the rest usually use the road to gain height then fight their way downhill towards Astrid. The sections through the battlements tended to be the tertiary focus, once the road get clogged up and units need a side route to advance up.

I knew that the two key strategic features of this map were Astrid, and the road on height, so I spaced them out as far as I could. I had a difficult time moving Astrid from the rest of the plateau, though, because the footprint was already several hexes longer than I was hoping for, so I didn't want to make it much wider, overall. The intervening water and battlements help to seperate them-even if a ranged figure kills the glyph holder they will have a hard time getting to it. Having three starting spaces on road is another incentive to get players to take advantage of the road (and thereby move away from the glyph) that I intentionally employed to spread out the fight.

I'm going to <snip> this (and your thoughts, dok) over to my map thread. I'd live to hear anything else anyone has to say about Erosion, or Dance Steppes.

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  #96  
Old May 24th, 2011, 07:55 PM
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Re: Killometer's maps ~ Erosion added 5/11/11

From R˙chean's Map Challenge Round 2, Group A2 - Voting Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killometer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Since I did the other section, hey, why not this one, too.
  • Dance Steppes - In some ways, this is a similar concept to what Gamebear did with Scavenger's Folly. The startzones are relatively bare, but the ruin blocks lateral LoS between the high spots. The battlements do a nice job of balancing out the movement required to approach either of the two high spots. Personally, I'd like to see both ruins used, and possibly a power glyph put in place to encourage more movement once the armies get established on the high ground.

The hills with the battlements do an excellent job blocking LoS between start zones, at least until one is summited. Hopefully by that time, though, both armies are significantly deployed, and it becomes less of an issue.

I really tried to find a place for power glyphs, but they always either became yours-and-mine, or they clogged up the road. Given more time I might have been able to work something out, but I knew I was going to need most of my time to work the kinks out of Erosion, and this map flowed sufficiently well without them.

The angled ruin makes an excellent LoS break to gather troops behind before rushing a fortified hill, and the roads are broad enough that a lot of traffic can move down them. I started with the large ruin, but it completely bisected the road, forcing players to leave it and lose the bonus.

Again, thanks for the comments dok, and I'm going to <snip> this over to my map thread as well.

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