Battlefields of Valhalla Discussion Thread

[nyys]

DRY SEASON by Killometer

Upon a quick look, Dry Season looks like a fairly balanced map and actually reminds me of another similar map that was nominated a while back (I believe it was a GameBear map, but I may be mistaken).

I remembered the reasons that map didn't pass muster, so I immediately went for the same army types for this map as well. As with many maps, a lot of their failures and successes start and end with Raelin. This one was no different.

In one move Raelin can hide herself nicely behind a wall and can look back and protect her forces as they march up the hill. This isn't as bad as it initially sounds since the start zones are close enough that some flyers can bridge that gap very quickly and be on top of Raelin in one move themselves. A pretty good attempt at balance IMO, but unfortunately not enough.

Yes, there is a chance you'll get some licks in on Raelin in that situation, but your figure is also now completely exposed and will very likely be assaulted with multiple attacks and taken down quickly.

The real problem though was with an all (or mostly) melee army up against Raelin and plenty of range. Again, she can take that hiding spot very quickly, and though ranged figures can't take the highest points and still stay in clear sight, they can reach some height and will be up there ready to mow down the foot sloggers.

Should some of those slow of foot reach the ranged attackers, they now have to contend with the aura, which proved far too powerful more times than not in my games.

I applaud this attempt at a single RotV map, it's not easy to pull it off, and even though it looks a bit bland (IMO) I wouldn't hesitate to play on this one in a draft format. But in double blind tourneys, it can very well end up with some not so great match-ups.

I vote NO to induct Dry Season into the BoV.

[1Mmirg]

Well, it looks like I have delayed too long in posting my own thoughts about Dry Season. With the semester's end upon me, I'm up to my neck in final papers, portfolios, and exams to be graded.

So, I'll just offer a couple of thoughts on Dry Season, fwiw.

First, I agree largely with both Typhon and nyys's reviews. And my vote, once I wrote it up, would have also been a NO.

Second, I just want to add that I do consider this to be in the top tier of 1 RotV maps. I might even mix it in at a tourney, if we were low on sets and needed a 1 RotV map. I would avoid having Finals on it, but I would be okay with mixing it in.

Third, the thing that I don't believe the earlier two reviews mentioned was the use of large/huge figures on this map and the relation of height and glyphs.

Because I think that map makers use this thread to learn a bit about different perspectives on maps and what makes them work, I'll share a couple of thoughts here on those two topics:

I see maps place walls like this one too often. The walls simply need more space around them. They are not 2-D lines, but take up some space--and double-hex figures (or large D3 based ones) can really struggle in maneuvering around walls placed so closed to raised hexes.

Other judges may disagree, but I also don't like seeing the central high points also able to overlook (and snipe) the glyph points so easily. This map allows units with Range 6 or greater to pummel any glyph holders.

I do like to see glyphs in vulnerable positions, but in relatively vulnerable positions--i.e. not necessarily vulnerable from the highest points and most valuable land on the map.

When I used Dry Season as inspiration to make High Ways or the Highway, I turned the walls to limit the value of the central high spots--and to allow large/huge double-based (and D3) units more access to more parts of the map. I made sure to keep the glyphs plenty vulnerable, but wanted to limit the value of the center height, which is already plenty valuable intrinsically.

Anyhow, let me repeat: I like this map a lot. I almost nominated it myself when I first saw it. I played on it a lot and finally decided it was just not quite up to what I wanted in the BoV, so I ended up not nominating it, but it is quite good. I consider it among the best for 1 RotV. I'm glad to have been able to play on it again recently (for this round of testing) and I hope no one minds me putting in a few belated thoughts.

[boromir96]

Well, thanks for giving it a look!


So, I realize mapmaking standards have evolved over the years, just out of curiosity, if Turret Rocks was to be submitted now, do you think it would still pass? (Just wondering if there's still any hope for a 1 RotV map. I realize it would have to be an extremely stellar design, and I've always questioned if Turret Rocks really was..)

[greygnarl]

Can someone link me to the reviews of Ember Canyon Road, or about where in the thread they would be?

[Shedim Kabal]

Originally Posted by greygnarl

Can someone link me to the reviews of Ember Canyon Road, or about where in the thread they would be?

Non Vote Reviews:
Velenne
Eclipse

Vote Reviews:
Revdyer
Eclipse
Riggler
Elstree

Homba's Response to Velenne

Rÿchean Abstains

[1Mmirg]

Originally Posted by boromir96

Well, thanks for giving it a look!


So, I realize mapmaking standards have evolved over the years, just out of curiosity, if Turret Rocks was to be submitted now, do you think it would still pass? (Just wondering if there's still any hope for a 1 RotV map. I realize it would have to be an extremely stellar design, and I've always questioned if Turret Rocks really was..)

As a TD (not a BoV Judge), I can say that I do not commonly use Turret Rocks at events.

I can also say that if Dry Season could find a way to fix the wall issues (i.e. both the Dragon placement, the excessive power of the central high points, and the Raelin issues) that I'd be happy to review it again. Just because I think it would be valuable to have a BoV RotV only map--and I think this one is awfully close.

(FWIW, I would consider using Dry Season (as is) at an event, but would avoid it for championship games and would be sure to have other maps that balanced it weaker points. Again, speaking as a TD.)

[dok]

Originally Posted by boromir96

So, I realize mapmaking standards have evolved over the years, just out of curiosity, if Turret Rocks was to be submitted now, do you think it would still pass? (Just wondering if there's still any hope for a 1 RotV map. I realize it would have to be an extremely stellar design, and I've always questioned if Turret Rocks really was..)

I very much doubt that Turret Rocks would pass if nominated now. The BoV standards evolve, and many of the maps on the first page of the display thread would be lucky to even get a review in the current environment. The BoV rolls should be seen as a "best of the best at the time" list.

Common Ground by Gamebear is often regarded as the best RotVx1 map out there, and has seen a lot of recent play both at local events (including my local events) and at Gencon. It was nominated shortly after its release, and got very close to passing into the BoV. I think it had 3 votes in favor and 2 against, with LongHeroscaper calling his no vote "probably the hardest vote I will ever make in the BoV" or something like that.

[Typhon2222]

Updated 5/6/2013

Logged nyys vote: NtI Dry Season.
Dry Season removed from review.


Maps pending acceptance for review:

———


Maps currently being reviewed:

RISING PRESSURE by Killometer
Yes = 0 ; NO = 1 (Dignan) ; PENDING = 5 (1Mmirg, mad_wookiee, nyys, Raider30, Typhon2222)

THE BOROGOVES by Typhon2222
Yes = 0 ; NO = 0 ; PENDING = 5 (1Mmirg, Dignan, mad_wookiee, nyys, Raider30) *Typhon2222 removed as map creator

DRAUGUR by mad_wookiee
Yes = 0 ; NO = 0 ; PENDING = 5 (1Mmirg, Dignan, nyys, Raider30, Typhon2222) *mad_wookiee removed as map creator

[Raider30]

Greetings,

Rising Pressure by Killometer

Well this review has been a long time coming. I've had it in my head for awhile now but now that Spring sports seasons are starting to wind down just a little bit(I think only 3 baseball games, 2 soccer games, and 2 taekwondo practices this week...) I thought I'd try to get it put to paper as it were.

Rising Pressure is an asymmetrical map which uses 1 RotV, 1 RttFF, 1 VW, and 4 fixed glyphs. Asymmetrical...tough to pull off, but Rising Pressure gives it a shot.

I'll say this about Rising Pressure, from here on in just RP, if nothing else it taught me to be careful about prejudging a map simply by looking at the picture on the build submission. When I initially looked at RP I immediately thought there is no way I'd approve something like that. To my eyes, simply looking at the picture, the elevation differences just seemed enormous. I don't know what it was that played that trick on my eyes, but I'm glad I built it because once it was built it wasn't quite as bad as I had made it out to be in my mind. In fact if I look at that same picture today it doesn't seem anywhere near as bad as my first pre-build impression.

Since I opened by talking about the elevation you all can probably guess that will be the biggest part of this review. Clearly that is the main landscape feature of the map. In fact, IMO it is such a dominant feature the builder did pretty much everything possible to offset the advantage of a player starting on the elevated end.

Things done to offset elevation advantage:

- Lots of LoS blockers on the short end.
- Road in the start zone on the short end.
- Glyph's all in relatively close proximity to the short end. Including the +2 move glyph reachable on OM1.
- Lava field and molten lava on the tall end.

The only problem is that despite all that it is still a very large advantage to start on the tall end. Unfortunately that is where the map breaks down. A ranged army can take advantage of the elevation and by and large a melee army cannot. As an example of the problems a melee army has, one game I played had a melee army vs another melee army. I started on the short end, was able to rush the glyph's and get set up. My opponent was basically forced to abandon the high ground in order to engage me to get me off the glyph's. A melee starting on the tall end vs a ranged army was even worse.

As I mentioned I think the map creator did about as good a job as can be done to try to offset the elevation advantage, but unfortunately it is just too much of a hill to climb. [<---see what I did there]

I just can't get behind a map that doesn't allow such a prominent feature to be used to the advantage of both sides.

I vote NO to induct Rising Pressure.

- Raider30

[Typhon2222]

Updated 5/23/2013

Logged Raider30 vote: NtI Rising Pressure.
Rising Pressure removed from review.


Maps pending acceptance for review:

———


Maps currently being reviewed:

THE BOROGOVES by Typhon2222
Yes = 0 ; NO = 0 ; PENDING = 5 (1Mmirg, Dignan, mad_wookiee, nyys, Raider30) *Typhon2222 removed as map creator

DRAUGUR by mad_wookiee
Yes = 0 ; NO = 0 ; PENDING = 5 (1Mmirg, Dignan, nyys, Raider30, Typhon2222) *mad_wookiee removed as map creator