100% Theoryscape

[White Noise]

You're forgetting that it also gives WotC the ability to advertise their prized baby (at the expense of our game. I mean, really, do you think I want to buy a game that's slowly invading the one I love?).

I also get the feeling that D&D figures aren't really designed with normal gameplay in mind (and are instead oriented around dungeon crawling). I mean, look at this quote from another thread:

Originally Posted by Grungebob

Again that sounds like tourney mentality. What I think is if you are going on a dungeon adventure and you are worried about dragons and other flying deadlies, having Brandis along is a decent choice, especially if you are just starting your Heroscape collection.

[Aldin]

Originally Posted by White Noise

I also get the feeling that D&D figures aren't really designed with normal gameplay in mind

By normal you mean? Drafting? That's what's in the rule book as "normal" you know. But I suspect you mean "tournament" in which case you can't possibly have missed the arguments that the Greenscale Warriors and the Fire Elementals (with Kurrok) both sound like components of tournament level armies to some folks. That's 2 for 2 so far in the question of "how many of D1's packs contain D&D figures designed with 'normal' gameplay in mind?"

~Aldin, who used Erevan to mess up Su Bak Na in a drafted game just today

[White Noise]

I mean games that aren't dungeon crawls. Yes, I have seen those arguments, but I can't help but wonder if their competitiveness within a tournament environment was treated more as an afterthought...

[Grungebob]

Originally Posted by White Noise

You're forgetting that it also gives WotC the ability to advertise their prized baby (at the expense of our game. I mean, really, do you think I want to buy a game that's slowly invading the one I love?).

I also get the feeling that D&D figures aren't really designed with normal gameplay in mind (and are instead oriented around dungeon crawling). I

Normal gameplay in mind? What is your idea of normal gameplay? In my mind sitting down to play a scenario, drafting and counter drafting from available figures. That is and has always been normal Heroscape gameplay. We are going to get new players undoubtedly due to the D&D logo. These new folks won't have a ROTV set. Access to older waves is unknown. I don't see how offering a less expensive Syvarris type figure could be considered a poor design choice.

[Aldin]

Originally Posted by White Noise

I mean games that aren't dungeon crawls. Yes, I have seen those arguments, but I can't help but wonder if their competitiveness within a tournament environment was treated more as an afterthought...

You have two different thoughts there. Like I said... in "games that aren't dungeon crawls" I drafted Erevan today and he performed great against SuBakNa - giving me good, independent punch that discouraged my opponent from grabbing stuff that is vulnerable to Special Attacks.

I don't know why tournament play should be treated as more than an afterthought, seeing as how it is certainly an aftermarket idea formed by Heroscapers. That said, one of the playtesters is the guy in charge of the thread that rates units by their tournament effectiveness - so how can their worthiness there possibly be a mere afterthought to him?

It's like green eggs and ham. I know you don't want to try them, but I think you may really like it if you do.

~Aldin, in a box... with a fox

[dok]

Originally Posted by Aldin

I don't know why tournament play should be treated as more than an afterthought, seeing as how it is certainly an aftermarket idea formed by Heroscapers.

Well, it's a major part of the game's market at this point, I think. And making figures that are balanced for tournament play in no way detracts from dungeon crawls or draft events.

That said, I don't believe tournament play has in any way gotten short shrift in this wave. I think you agree as well:

Originally Posted by Aldin

That said, one of the playtesters is the guy in charge of the thread that rates units by their tournament effectiveness - so how can their worthiness there possibly be a mere afterthought to him?

And another playtester is "the face of tournament 'scape". These guys are definitely thinking about this stuff.

EDIT: Am I the only one who thinks it's funny that as soon as this got moved to strategy, the thread turned clearly toward HS general discussion?

[White Noise]

Originally Posted by dok

EDIT: Am I the only one who thinks it's funny that as soon as this got moved to strategy, the thread turned clearly toward HS general discussion?

Nope.

[Sarpedon]

It's in a way like the Great Quantum Physics experiment. The unobserved universe behaves differently. You can't pin Theoryscape down. It is everything Heroscape and (some say) nothing.

[dok]

Actually, theoryscape has an accepted definition around here, and true theoryscape does belong in this forum.

Now that you've been explicitly told you won't be hit with the banhammer, why don't you just participate in existing discussions?

[Kroz]

Another thing is that many of the players here were already looking for a way to do a dungeon crawl experience and many of the scenarios from the MS1 seem more like an adventure than a tournament game. Tournaments are revolved around having a powerful army on maps that are more or less symmetrical thus being fair to both with starting zones of 24 spaces.

The "normal" Heroscape barely fits that description. The maps are a-symmetrical many with drafted armies built to counter the other guy's army with many times an objective that isn't to destroy the other guy's army. I personally loved the scenario where you had to save Sgt. Drake. The normal scape is a LOT closer to DnD scape than most care to realize.

[Sarpedon]

Originally Posted by dok

Actually, theoryscape has an accepted definition around here, and true theoryscape does belong in this forum.

Now that you've been explicitly told you won't be hit with the banhammer, why don't you just participate in existing discussions?

Many thanks for the invite, but you must have noticed something about me after all this time. I'm better at writing original posts than actually discussing units/rules. I'll leave that to the tall foreheads and continue to focus on what I enjoy most: Writing for fun.

[clancampbell]

Originally Posted by dok

Again, all these minis are being made of a new plastic. They're not repurposed surplus stock that was sitting in a warehouse somewhere. They printed fresh figures, put them on HS bases, and gave them new paint jobs.

The one expense WotC saved here was the development of new sculpts. That's not insignificant, of course, but it's really all they saved.

Ah-ha! I'm glad someone else brought this up.

Really I don't know how much money was saved by not making molds. What I do know is it still cost money for the plastic itself, the new boxes, shipping, etc.

So with a new master set, and 2 full waves of D&D product, how much money was actually saved? Say money saved vs. 1 wave with new molds. I'm not sure about everyone, but I would gladly trade the all the D&D stuff for just 1 new wave of classic. I belive I'm not alone here.

Most of the D&D lovers still say classic scape would be preferred vs. nothing. What about 1 wave of classic vs. the 3 D&D runs?

In the end, is it cheaper to do the D&D master and the 2 waves vs. 1 new wave with new molds?
If this is economically driven, then why and how are we getting so much in such a short time? With shiney new plastics too!

Look, I know I'm the "hate monger" or whatever, but really, has anyone else stopped to ask these questions.