Decision 2016

[Aldin]

So with less than a week remaining I am still undecided as to where to place my vote. It feels like one of those college philosophy situations where all the choices are bad in their own separate ways and after you discuss it to death you're secretly glad that it could never ACTUALLY happen... and yet here we are.

I feel like Vizzini. I can clearly not choose the candidate in front of me. And either way I ultimately choose I wind up losing. Voting third party is tantamount to telling Buttercup I like her dress and letting Roberts pick the cup.

I don't believe there is a choice I can make where this country is a better place in four years. And I hate the idea of feeling responsible for the country's decline because I voted for the President that presided over it. Even if I have managed to choose the lesser of two evils.

~Aldin, glad the World Series can distract him tonight at least

[The_X_Marker]

Hey, Aldin, if you don't vote, you wont be responsible. You also wont have a right to complain about the winner, but sometimes the winning move is not to play.

[Tornado]

Thanks Joshua.

Spoiler Alert!

[wriggz]

Originally Posted by Aldin

So with less than a week remaining I am still undecided as to where to place my vote. It feels like one of those college philosophy situations where all the choices are bad in their own separate ways and after you discuss it to death you're secretly glad that it could never ACTUALLY happen... and yet here we are.

That seems a bit extreme to an outsiders perspective.

Overall trends aside, depending on your values some things look to get better. The democratic tax plan looks like it might start to rebalanced the wealth inequality so unless you are super rich this may benifit you. however if you are super rich the Republican tax plan is definitely better for you. If you are worried about climate change it looks like the democratic plan is in line with reducing co2, if you like burning coal go republican. If you are worried about equality in the courts a democratic nomination to the Supreme Court is important. if you think lgbtq and maybe even women deserve less rights republican. If you think Christianity should dictate government policy republican is your horse.

ALl these dichotomies will have a huge impact in the next 4 years and do impact citizen directly.

of course I'm bias since everyone trump rallies The Canadian dollar and stocks and Mexican peso take a hit. Though that should give you an indication of the damage a vote for trump will do to the international economy.

[Swamper]

I'm starting to get the feeling that Trump could pull this out if he doesn't shoot himself in the foot between now and Tuesday. That's a big if, though.

[Dad_Scaper]

God help us. Let us not be that stupid, as a nation.

[Aldin]

More frustrated than stupid, I think. I don't think many Trump voters are voting for Trump so much as they're voting against politics as usual and a feeling of impotence.

~Aldin, cutting off his nose to spite his face

[Dysole]

People continue to surprise me with their stupidity but I think Aldin isn't wrong that a good chunk of Trump's support comes from several very understandable places of pathos I guess. I don't have the right words to describe it, but I think there are some legitimate grievances that haven't been addressed and Trump embodies a solution that speaks to those grievances, even if it may very well end up working against them. (There's also the "Clinton is the devil" voters, but I think there's a number of "Trump is the devil" voters as well)

While I personally feel lots of personal worry for if Trump is elected (whether or not my level of worry/fear is an overreaction is debatable), I think that if he does lose, we should not be quick to dismiss those who supported him as stupid, but listen and try to figure out how they can be helped. Our country is continuing to polarize and it will continue to do so if we don't try to do something about that.

~Dysole, who can't recall feeling dread(?) before any election ever in her life

[Dad_Scaper]

Aldin.

Reasonable people might disagree about whether Clinton would be a *good* President. The best criticisms of her, IMHO, come from the left: she is somewhat hawkish, for a Democrat, and not aggressively liberal.

Reasonable people do not disagree about whether Trump would be a good President. He would be terrible, and if you think things can't get worse, you are wrong. Nothing good would come from 4 years of Trump. No catharsis, no third party rising from the ashes. Just wreckage.

It's already humiliating enough, on the international stage, that he's been nominated. He has no redeeming qualities. He is not smart enough or tough enough; he has no desire to learn or any demonstrated ability to surround himself with people who can help him. He has ridden his campaign on the backs of people who either (1) hear his dog whistles tuned to the white supremacists and their ilk, or (2) are so desperate for change that they don't realize that change for the worse is not only possible, but certain under this man, or (3) are so bad at paying attention that they don't realize that he is a cheat (tax and business), a fraud (business), and a sexual predator.

It shocks me how many people did not know that this man is being sued by a woman who accuses him of sexually assaulting her when she was a child, and there are affidavits by witnesses corroborating her story.

Oh, but every single person knows about Clinton and her little emails. Everyone is an expert on that.

No reasonable, well-informed person will cast a vote for him. Whatever your cause: supporting law enforcement, Israel, civil rights, whatever, it doesn't matter. There is a reason the conservative papers are all lining up behind Clinton. Trump's candidacy is an embarrassment to this nation on an international stage.

[keglo]

Aldin.

Your post pretty much describes my feelings exactly. Well, except for the fact that Hillary has never been an option for me. Not only do I find her to be a detestable person, but I don't agree with her, at all, on any of the important issues. After some serious wrestling back and forth between Trump and a third party vote, I'm going with Trump. And for the record, I don’t give a rat's ass who thinks I'm stupid because of it. Despite what others might say, mine is a well-informed decision. Some people just have a very over-inflated opinion of their own opinions. And frankly, are pretty damn rude about it. I can't fathom how a single person in this country could vote for Hillary Clinton. I certainly can't understand the nausea inducing, glowing, over-the-top praises for her that I have seen in this thread. It blows my mind that over half the country apparently supports her. But it is their right and I won't insult them for it.

Unfortunately, I think that she has this election in the bag. God help us.

[wriggz]

Originally Posted by keglo

Aldin.

Your post pretty much describes my feelings exactly. Well, except for the fact that Hillary has never been an option for me. Not only do I find her to be a detestable person, but I don't agree with her, at all, on any of the important issues. After some serious wrestling back and forth between Trump and a third party vote, I'm going with Trump. And for the record, I don’t give a rat's ass who thinks I'm stupid because of it. Despite what others might say, mine is a well-informed decision. Some people just have a very over-inflated opinion of their own opinions. And frankly, they are pretty damn rude about it. I can't fathom how a single person in this country could vote for Hillary Clinton. I certainly can't understand the nausea inducing, glowing, over-the-top praises for her that I have seen in this thread. It blows my mind that over half the country apparently supports her. But it is their right and I won't insult them for it.

Unfortunately, I think that she has this election in the bag. God help us.

From a purely objective prespectime what is it about the Republican platform that is so enticing? I can understand if you are wealthy, don't believe climate change is a concern, are not concerned about the rights of minorites or genders other than biologically male, or feel government should play to the tune of Christianity fundementalism.

Or is it that you believe the rupublicans will have a hands off approach to government (which really seems unlikely).

Non partisan experts and experts from both sides of the aisle including economists scientists and political scientists have all shown tge world would we be worse under the Republican platform. Or are tge experts un trustworthy?

Is it a personal quality of Clinton? If it was Khary or Gore or Obama again would that swing your vote? Tieing your vote to a personality does seem a but silly. Is it that clinton is too much of a politician? in which case does it concern you that trump is too much of a bad politician?

I'm not judging your choice or meaning to mock. I'm just curious where the Democrats seemingly reasonable platform wentry wrong and where the Republican (Seemingly dangerous to me) platform succeeded.

[Dad_Scaper]

Originally Posted by keglo

But it is their right and I won't insult them for it.

Well, I hope you don't feel insulted by my post, above. Not only did I not insult you, we don't even disagree on anything, as far as I can tell.

I said that it was unreasonable to vote for Trump, and you said you voted for him, without any reason given. So we are in perfect agreement.

I'm sorry that the civil exchange of facts and opinions preceding that caused you nausea.

edit: the view from overseas.