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  #37  
Old September 20th, 2010, 06:04 PM
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Re: Killometer's maps ~ Verdant Valley added 9/20/10

I've always been a huge fan of nyys' map Viper Valley, and ever since I got a second TJ (so that I could build VV for NHSD '09, actually ) I've fiddled around with RotV+TJ x2 maps, trying to come up with something that I like visually and tactically. I've finally hit a design that I like enough to share, so here's Verdant Valley.



It requires 1 RotV and 2 TJs, and supports 2 random power glyphs and 2 random treasure glyphs (represented by face-up Glyphs of Brandar. The treasure glyphs are trapped with Punjee Stakes.
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If you rolled a 2-5 the figure's base Move is halved (rounded up) for the rest of the current round and the entire next round. If you rolled a 1 the figure's base Move is halved (rounded up) for the rest of the game.
It's hard to see in the picture, but the main features of the map are a central canyon well covered by Jungle and flanked by 24-hex plateaus. The initial advance out of the start zone of each side is also well covered by Jungle, protecting forces advancing to the open high ground. The central pocket of Jungle forces an early decision about which side to focus on when moving across the map, or to divide forces, but players can quickly regroup their units when they reach the far side.

I think that in addition to nyys' map, I also owe a debt of inspiration to GameBear's Ratcatcher and mad wookiee's Quasatch Playground (but I guess that if you're going to steal ideas you might as well steal them from maps nominated for/inducted into the BoV ).

130-96-0 (4/13/09-1/14/24)
36-16-0 (10/17/09-12/9/23)

Last edited by Killometer; October 7th, 2010 at 01:46 PM.
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  #38  
Old September 21st, 2010, 12:59 PM
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Re: Killometer's maps ~ Verdant Valley added 9/20/10

Verdant Valley...

I like the simplicity of it. It is good a to see a low material requirement type of map that offers good terrain variety and different strategic options.

Nice job!
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  #39  
Old September 21st, 2010, 03:15 PM
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Re: Killometer's maps ~ Verdant Valley added 9/20/10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamaclown View Post
Verdant Valley...

I like the simplicity of it. It is good a to see a low material requirement type of map that offers good terrain variety and different strategic options.

Nice job!
Thanks. Part of my goal while designing it was to make it tactically an "as-complicated-as-you-want-it-to-be" map. It can be sucessfully played as a simple straight-across assault, a more complicated two-pronged attack, or you can get really tricky and try to bluff which side you're using. Aesthetically I wanted it to look very clean and simple, thus the use of only grass tiles for the visible parts of the map. It's also very quick to build, which is something that, honestly, I just got lucky on.

At first I vacillated a lot on where to place my glyphs, but in the end I like my placement. The power glyphs do get a boost by being on high ground relative to most of the map, but they are adjacent to the highest part of the map, and there is equal height covered by Jungle just a few spaces away allowing attackers to shoot or move in from cover. I placed them on the edges of the map to try to draw some action away from the canyon to allow gound forces to quickly move through. When I tested the map I used all four glyphs because I like that treasure glyphs encourage heroes. Because the treasure glyphs are mobile their positioning didn't ever create too much of a bottleneck across the middle of the map.

My one concern about this map is that I know that TJ is pretty hard to get right now, and requiring two of them is probably daunting to players that have gotten into HS in just the last few months.

130-96-0 (4/13/09-1/14/24)
36-16-0 (10/17/09-12/9/23)

Last edited by Killometer; September 21st, 2010 at 03:16 PM. Reason: I'd have repped you, lamaclown, but vBulliten says I can't yet. You have to stop doing so much great stuff all the time. :b
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  #40  
Old September 21st, 2010, 03:39 PM
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Re: Killometer's maps ~ Verdant Valley added 9/20/10



LOL
How ironic is that!
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  #41  
Old September 23rd, 2010, 01:11 AM
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Re: Killometer's maps ~ Verdant Valley added 9/20/10

I was breaking down my copy of Verdant Valley to pack it over the hill tomorrow and I realized that I used two too many grass 3-hex tiles.

I'm going to fiddle around with fixing it tomorrow, but, in the meantime, I didn't use all the sand and rock 3-hex tiles from RotV, so they can be used in place of the extra grass tiles.

I'll update the download as soon as I have the map redesigned.

Edit: I actually got to it today. I made a couple changes to the 1st and 2nd levels to get it within 1 RotV. The only change that affects play instead of just structure was the removal of the level 2 grass 1-hex tiles nearest the power glyphs.

130-96-0 (4/13/09-1/14/24)
36-16-0 (10/17/09-12/9/23)

Last edited by Killometer; September 23rd, 2010 at 03:02 AM.
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  #42  
Old October 1st, 2010, 12:05 AM
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Re: Killometer's maps ~ Verdant Valley added 9/20/10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killometer View Post
I've finally hit a design that I like enough to share, so here's Verdant Valley.

I can tell Virtual Scape doesn't do this one justice, really need to set this one up to appreciate the aesthetic. I'll have to make some space on the game table.

-insert signature here-
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  #43  
Old October 1st, 2010, 12:11 AM
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Re: Killometer's maps ~ Verdant Valley updated 9/22/10

Yeah, VS has a hard time converting Jungle sometimes. This picture captures it a little better, I think.



It better shows off the cliffs,and gives a sense of the left-right division of the map.

If you get a chance to play on it I'd love to hear any thoughts you have.

130-96-0 (4/13/09-1/14/24)
36-16-0 (10/17/09-12/9/23)
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  #44  
Old October 20th, 2010, 05:25 PM
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Re: Killometer's maps ~ Verdant Valley updated 9/22/10

1Mmirg and I have been discussing Verdant Valley via pm, and, with his okay, I'm reposting the germaine parts of the conversation here, in hopes of garnering more insights or questions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killometer
Yeah, I've gotten a bunch of play in on it
After I built VV it went through about 5 major-to-minor variations through soloscape testing, then I tweaked it a little after playing several matches aginst my brother (my primary opponent; we're very well matched), and then I brought it to one of our local gamedays, where it saw about 4 or 5 more matches and was well recieved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Mmirg
Glad to hear it has been through its paces. How did the choke spots between the left and right sides of the map work? Seems like a few Reavers could really lock down an area--esp. if they manage to get on top of some of those elevated choke spots. Did you have any experiences along those lines? Did you experience issues with lateral movement on the map?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killometer
My brother loves rats, especially combined with Q9 or Stingers, so I did face them a few times. The jungle helps advancing units a lot-I placed it to protect them right up to the edges og the plateaus. Once up on the plateaus there is enough area to manuver that you can usually gain a height advantage over at least one rat. Lateral movement across the center of the map is impossible for non-flying units, which sometimes leads to all the action taking place on one side of the map (especially if there is a strong imbalance between the glyphs), but it can also result in some exciting bait-and-switch games with players attempting to bluff which side they are going to focus on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Mmirg
I like the way the glyphs are both exposed and hard to get up to. I like the trap idea. I'll have to play that to get a feel for it, but I like the idea. (Any issues with keeping track of the injured units?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killometer
It's actually never come up. it didn't hit in any of the games I played with my brother, and at the gameday everyone used the GenCon trap. I was a little bummed about that, because I really wanted to see how people handle a trap outside of the normal "you take damage"
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Mmirg
Did you have any my-side-your-side issues with it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killometer
Not really. I tried really hard to balance access to height, glyphs and jungle to prevent that. The only problem I ever really had like that was in one game my brother grabbed Wannok in the other side of the map after I had committed all my Dividers to the other side but that was mostly just a tactical error on my part.

130-96-0 (4/13/09-1/14/24)
36-16-0 (10/17/09-12/9/23)
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  #45  
Old November 1st, 2010, 01:14 PM
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Re: Killometer's maps ~ Verdant Valley updated 9/22/10

More Verdant Valley conversation (again, reposted with 1Mmirg's permission):
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Mmirg
I had two more thoughts/questions for you. I mentioned before I was a little concerned that some of the choke points connecting the sides of the map have elevated points (ideal for a Rat to sit and be extra strong). I also just noticed that one has a jungle bush as well. What are your thoughts about these points?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killometer
A rat sitting on the edge of the cliff definitely has an advantage locking down the valley, but along the really vulnerable section of the map (the part where lateral movement is blocked) most of the spaces give up height advantage to the highest part of the map. Also, in my experience, if a player commits too many resources to locking up the canyon, it becomes easier to seperate them from the glyphs, thanks to the hill between those two key points.

I'm not sure which bushes specifically concern you, but most of the bushes are placed either close to the start zone, so a player has to hunker in place to take long-term advantage of it, or far from the start zone, so they have to commit to a banzai charge across the map to take long-term advantage of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Mmirg
I'm a little concerned that a melee army is getting set up for real trouble, getting locked out of one side or the other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killometer
In addition to being placed to protect units advancing out of their start zone, my heavy placement of the Jungle across the width of the map parallel to the start zones was designed to protect melee units cutting across the map, helping them survive some tactical manuvering, either to come in tosupports units that are in trouble, or to circle across to a more weakly defended part of the map. I think that expensive, non-flying units would have a hard time on this map, but if you've got either numbers or flying, redirecting your attack usually won't be too hard. I've done well with Dividers and Drones, and seen Gladiators and Warforged also have success.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Mmirg
Following up on that, what is your thought about the middle having the two central bushes? I wonder if it wouldn't be better to have those spots open (even water spaces), just so that lateral movement on the map is possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killometer
The left-right division if the map was actually a key thing I was experimenting with. I wanted there to be some impact with how you brought out your forces. It went through several different iterations (including one where the bushes were replaced by water), and in the end I decided that the decisions forced by complete impediment of movement across the central hexes offered the right balance between challenge and reward.

Also, it looks like a very intimidating division, but really, it's a space that is only 3 hexes long that is blocked. I feel like the 2-level cliff is a more brutal roadblock to slow melee armies attempting to maneuver from one side to the other.

130-96-0 (4/13/09-1/14/24)
36-16-0 (10/17/09-12/9/23)
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  #46  
Old November 1st, 2010, 02:44 PM
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Re: Killometer's maps ~ Verdant Valley updated 9/22/10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killometer View Post
Yeah, VS has a hard time converting Jungle sometimes. This picture captures it a little better, I think.



It better shows off the cliffs,and gives a sense of the left-right division of the map.

If you get a chance to play on it I'd love to hear any thoughts you have.
Very nice map, Killo! Just the kind of hybrid glyph combination I advocated when D&D 'scape came out. Would you consider adding Shadow tiles anywhere (perhaps as a variant)?
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  #47  
Old November 1st, 2010, 02:53 PM
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Re: Killometer's maps ~ Verdant Valley updated 9/22/10

Quote:
Originally Posted by kolakoski View Post
Very nice map, Killo! Just the kind of hybrid glyph combination I advocated when D&D 'scape came out. Would you consider adding Shadow tiles anywhere (perhaps as a variant)?
Thanks. I designed it to be able to be played with all four glyphs, just the power glyphs, just the treasure glyphs or no glyphs. Using all four has been my favorite.

Since this map uses Jungle so heavily, I think that permenantly adding Shadow might be a little redundant. Mika could always temporarily add some, though.

130-96-0 (4/13/09-1/14/24)
36-16-0 (10/17/09-12/9/23)
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  #48  
Old November 1st, 2010, 06:44 PM
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Re: Killometer's maps ~ Verdant Valley updated 9/22/10

I love Verdant Valley. Too bad I cant build it!
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