Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

[superfrog]

Yeah, just ribbing our oldest-fashioned judge. Dark Fulcrum is a worthy nomination.

[OEAO]

Nightfall by Typhon


I included this map in the ScapeCon map pool on the recommendation of my events crew. And the more I've played it, the more I've enjoyed it.

I have some very minor critiques involving moving right (it could be a little better) and the width of the map (it feels like it could be 1 hex narrower on each side), but these are very minor criticisms.

Games often take place across the map; the road is useful without being too strong; range has opportunity to use natural bumps in the elevation to take some safe potshots; and the height is very well distributed. This is the best Marvel map I've played so far, and although it uses a fair amount of sets, it's not particularly terrain intensive given that there aren't that many great Marvel maps yet. I'd happily play on this map anytime. YES to induct.


Odin Wept by Typhon


I love this map. Typhon has stretched these 3 sets to the max. The initial height jump during development and the slight bump in terrain elevation in the center provide just enough time for range to take some potshots before being overrun. The lava is placed very well, the glaciers provide meaningful line of sight blockers, and the shadow is placed extremely well.

The one issue before was the 3-hex glacier outside the starting zone. This created a pretty obnoxious podding spot. Typhon's update eliminated that issue.

This is a fantastic map. I'm pretty sure it's my favorite lava map. The entire center is so well done. YES to induct.


Dark Fulcrum by GameBear (Original by Dignan)


There has been a lot of talk about Fulcrum recently. I still really like the original, and I think Dark Fulcrum is an excellent version of it.

The 3-hex is no longer covered by jungle (removing one of the more controversial elements of the original). The shadow is well placed in both the center and in the (previous) water streams. This makes it just a touch easier to access the hills, which helps melee catch a dragon, and can allow range to make a play for some early height shots while still quickly falling back (and not having to stop in the water).

One of the bigger changes is to the sand 7-hex on the left side. It is now its own isolated level 2 height, which provides range a little more opportunity to force melee figures to attack up. This is a very nice way to help counterbalance the addition of shadow spaces to the center (which provide a nice +2 bonus to the 2 central hexes).

This map is balanced for both melee and range. Every change that helps one has a corresponding change that helps the other. GameBear + Dignan is usually going to be a winning combo, and that is fully evident here. This is the best 2 BftU + 1 TJ map I've played. YES to induct.

[Leaf_It]

Originally Posted by superfrog

Yeah, just ribbing our oldest-fashioned judge. Dark Fulcrum is a worthy nomination.

I see. I was unaware. apologies.

[superfrog]

Nightfall by @Typhon2222


Nightfall is a great map. I've heard some people describe is as a marvel/dungeon version of Aeon, and when I saw the maps physically side-by-side for the first time at our last SoCal event the similarity was striking.

(If you go back and read my Aeon review I noted that Aeon wasn't my favorite map, but having played on it more since then it has continued to impress me more and more.)

Despite a somewhat similar "ring around the center tree" road setup, Nightfall has a couple features that distinguish it from Aeon, most notably the more-open/dynamic sides, the level 2 shadow, and the difference in intermediate height. Where Aeon has the level 3 grass around the big tree, and a single level 3 perch behind the single tree, Nightfall has better access to immediate level 3 and features a 2-hex level 3 perch (a la my Canary or Turmoil) in the middle of the road.

At first I was confused by the level 2 on the right below the level 3 7-hex (it doesn't connect to any other level 2), but I appreciate the little wrinkle it provides in gameplay, where it can occasionally act as a pseudo-perch for screened-off ranged figures, but then can become a trap that gives up high ground if the screen disintegrates.

Overall I've very much enjoyed my games on Nightfall. Gameplay flows nicely through different areas of the map and a wide variety of armies can get benefits from the road/shadow/perches with no one spot dominating gameplay.

to induct.

[superfrog]

Congrats to @Flash_19 , the updated Origin has once again passed WoS!

[Sir Heroscape]

I've like to nominate Flaxen Shard by @Ulysses


Tournament History....

Peoria 2023 Monthlys | January
# in Map Pool : 1
# Games Played : 3
Wisconsin Monthly Tournament 9/17/23
# in Map Pool : 1
# Games Played : 5
Utah 2023 | September
# in Map Pool : 1
# Games Played : 1
MARS Salisbury MD - NHSD - VC Delta Monster Mash
# in Map Pool : 1
# Games Played : 3
SoCal NHSD 2023
# in Map Pool : 1
# Games Played : 5
Louisville Nov 25th Tourney: Delta Master Sets Only
# in Map Pool : 1
# Games Played : 3
Sir Heroscape's Champion's Circle Season 1 | Qualifier #3
# in Map Pool : 3
# Games Played : 10
Sir Heroscape's Champion's Circle Season 1 | FINALS
# in Map Pool : 2
# Games Played : 3

While a bit of a newer map - relatively speaking - It has quickly become a favorite in tournament scenes across the community (note the above). I've enjoyed my games on this map and felt that it provides really good options for both melee and range to "pick their spots". The center is easily contestable, and the edges are dynamic enough that the battle occurs there just as frequently. Great job Ulysses and good luck!

[superfrog]

Thanks for the nomination!

[1Mmirg]

Originally Posted by MegaSilver

I'm going to go ahead and nominate Nightfall.


Nightfall


Events:

Louisville, KY Monthly Tournament (10/22/2022)
Mid-Atlantic Regional Scapers (4/22/23)
MARS Salisbury Maryland - VCheese (6/25/23)
Peoria Monthly June 2023 (6/24/23)
Missouri Seasonal Tourneys (7/22/23)
MARS D.C. July 2023 - RtW (7/22/23)
Peoria Monthlies 23 — SC prep RtW (7/29/23)
Utah Monthly July 2023 (7/29/23)
Scapecon 3

From ScapeCon III feedback thread, Nightfall seemed to be the overall favorite map, or at least near the top. And it's a great use of the Marvel set overall.

Nightfall is a remarkable map. I love the center especially. Excellent variable height and blockers. Very dynamic.

I'm less of a fan of the warehouses in the start zone approach. Certain armies really struggle with part of their own start zone not easily visible. Not a huge thing; you can work with it, but not a plus in my book.

For me the issues we had on this map were almost always related to the sides of the map. (We had one game where melee just couldn't get traction once a pod was set up on the easily accessed 2-hex space near the start zone, plus a little support from the high points nearby, but that happens sometimes with melee).

The bigger issues were working the edges with the glyphs. Over and over, the game turned into a half-map slog near one glyph. The terrain there is slow, the road doesn't come in, and armies with a foothold there can camp fairly nicely, as armies have to travel a distance to get to the glyphs. We found that teams that can rush the sides often won, as the other team couldn't viably contest both glyphs and had to focus on just one, conceding the other.

Simply, lateral movement on the map is slow and the map is just wide enough to make that matter a lot. And the distance to the glyphs is just far enough to make contesting them a challenge (and not the fun kind of challenge).

We had a lot of fun games on this map. A lot of them. But we also had several where it just felt like the game slowed into half-map slog.

When the map works, it really works, but I found myself not looking forward to playing on this map and having to force myself to test it again and again. That's not a good sign. WoS maps should be ones that excite me consistently.

Beyond that, as MM has stated, this map uses a lot of sets and that finally flips the coin. For this many sets, I want more from a map.

I'm sorry to come in so late with this vote, but I don't think I can support Nightfall. I vote NO to induct. Sorry.

[Foudzing]

Originally Posted by MegaSilver

I'm going to go ahead and nominate Nightfall.


Nightfall


Events:

Louisville, KY Monthly Tournament (10/22/2022)
Mid-Atlantic Regional Scapers (4/22/23)
MARS Salisbury Maryland - VCheese (6/25/23)
Peoria Monthly June 2023 (6/24/23)
Missouri Seasonal Tourneys (7/22/23)
MARS D.C. July 2023 - RtW (7/22/23)
Peoria Monthlies 23 — SC prep RtW (7/29/23)
Utah Monthly July 2023 (7/29/23)
Scapecon 3

From ScapeCon III feedback thread, Nightfall seemed to be the overall favorite map, or at least near the top. And it's a great use of the Marvel set overall.

Nightfall review:

So first of all to me the amount of sets it uses isn't a problem, the goal of WoS is to provide TO with good maps they can use, and Nightfall does just that, if TO can't use Nightfall because it uses too many sets there's plenty of other WoS or non-WoS maps to choose from.
Tho using few sets gets bonus points.

So on the actual review.
Like 1Mmrig, I was afraid this map would have a the two hills problem, but unlike 1Mmirg it never happened in my games or in the games I watched, probably because I did not pick machups especially for this problem, but I don't think the map necessarily leads to 2 armies camping more than any other map really. Overall I feel it's a very well executed 2 hills map, I agree with people that said that it plays similarly as Aeon which is in my opinion the best 2 hills map.

It's definitely a range friendly map with lots of heights very near the startzone and the road suffering the "bad road" syndrome a bit. But not to the point where it's problematic to me, melee still has some tools like the shadow to advance a bit more covered and the road even tho it has "bad road" syndrome with almost all adjacent hexes to road having height on it, it won't be used in all melee vs range games, but it's a good tool if you just want to rush, for example with a shark like a hero that can disengage and just want to hit a specific piece in the statzone, or another use is to bring reinforcements in once you made contact.

I don't think it's like THE GOAT map to me and I think it could be sightly improved (maybe making the road sightly better). But I still think it completely passes the quality checkmark for a spot in the WoS.
It's balanced, dynamic, interesting and beautiful.
I vote yes to induct.

[superfrog]

Nightfall (4/6, 67%) comes short of the 75% required and is not inducted.

Flaxen Shard is on the clock.

[Ulysses]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

I've like to nominate Flaxen Shard...

Thank you so much for the nomination Sir H!!! Apparently 1 RotV with 1 TJ is my wheelhouse

[Dunedain]

I'd like to nominate No Aloha by Ulysses. This map is probably my favorite non WoS map I've played, it provides a great variety of height and decision making and is a joy to move around on



It was used at Lincoln Seasonal IV

Most Recent SoCal event, confirmable by @superfrog