Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

[Rich10]

Is this a new figure or is this like the 2 Drakes? In other words, could you run Raelin and Utgar Raelin in the same army? This would be pretty broken.

80 Raelin
110 Utgar Raelin
180 Q9
120 Deathreavers x 3
490 16 hexes



If you can't run both Raelin's, she's no more broken then Raelin (ROTV).

[killercactus]

Originally Posted by Rich10

Is this a new figure or is this like the 2 Drakes? In other words, could you run Raelin and Utgar Raelin in the same army? This would be pretty broken.

80 Raelin
110 Utgar Raelin
180 Q9
120 Deathreavers x 3
490 16 hexes



If you can't run both Raelin's, she's no more broken then Raelin (ROTV).

You can't run her with RotV (or SotM) Raelin because they share the same name.

[dok]

Rich10, the name is the same, so it's clear that you can only have one.

I had meant to make this suggestion on the CHCG24 thread (sorry, qt), but I think restricting the bonding to Utgar dragons only would be interesting. That still leaves three options, but takes out Zelrig and Nilfheim, which are almost certainly the two most problematic ones (because of Zelrig's range and Nilfheim's ability to hide Raelin in his wings).

As killercactus noted, the sort-of point here is that the dragons already have the greenscales. From a game balance perspective, the question is whether this makes the best Raelin/Dragon armies stronger than before. Once you have greenscales, the extra points for Bad Raelin don't seem very useful, so I tend to look at ratpodges for the best Bad Raelin army. Nilfhiem, Bad Raelin, Krav, and three sets of rats at 515? Oy... that's pretty bad. What about with the Utgar restriction? Moltenclaw, Bad Raelin, Krav, and three sets of rats at 500? That's pretty nasty, but not nearly as bad, particularly since Moltenclaw can't block your opponent's view of Raelin nearly as easily.

At any rate, I'm not really trying to dispute the SoV ruling here, simply because I'm not sure we need another Raelin. But I'm not totally convinced that this figure is as broken as some are saying here.

[Lamaclown]

Originally Posted by dok

At any rate, I'm not really trying to dispute the SoV ruling here, simply because I'm not sure we need another Raelin. But I'm not totally convinced that this figure is as broken as some are saying here.

I am not sure that I would say that she is broken, but, I do think she is worth more than 110 points.

[Dad_Scaper]

It seems to me that the objections from dok and KC are all similarly observing that "broken" might be an overstatement for a unit that is probably undercosted at 110.

I think it's instructive to compare her to Raelin v2. She has a better aura and needs no OMs in an army with a dragon. She lacks the offensive punch, if you can call it that, but on balance it seems to me she is *clearly* the superior figure.

[dok]

Oh, I think the term "broken" would easily apply if this figure didn't have the name "Raelin the Kyrie Warrior". When a figure is a replacement for the most cost-effective figure in the game, though, a different set of rules apply.

That said, I don't exactly disagree with the decision not to review, so I'm going to stop rabble-rousing now.

[robbdaman]

If it were me I'd vote NO on Evil Raelin because it lacks originality and creativity. Simply taking an old unit and making a minor change and changing it's cost is rather weak but the problem is it is one of the most efficient and plentiful units in the game that you've chosen to recreate. RotV Raelin is practically broken to begin with, it would have been different if you took a rather weak figure and made it better. This just seems unnecessary.

[qt.bangerang]

Thanks all for looking at her again...I really like the way she has turned out and I have enjoyed working on her, but it is time to move on to new things.

[Killometer]

qt.bangarang's Raelin the Kyrie Warrior has received more than 3 NO to review votes (1Mmirg, Dad_Scaper, Lamaclown, ZBeeblebrox) and is removed from the process.

For what it's worth, after considering it over night (extra thought given in deference to CHCG24's acceptance of her), I was going to vote NO as well. In addition to the concerns my fellow judges have voiced (namely a mere 30 point investment to avoid losing an activation of your dragon), I was worried by the fact that when Raelin is moved she doesn't risk any Leaving Engagement Strikes. Even if her associated dragon didn't move, she would still be able to disengage to the other side of the dragon risk-free. That is, in my opinion, no small strategic consideration.

[krysto2002]

Originally Posted by robbdaman

If it were me I'd vote NO on Evil Raelin because it lacks originality and creativity. Simply taking an old unit and making a minor change and changing it's cost is rather weak but the problem is it is one of the most efficient and plentiful units in the game that you've chosen to recreate. RotV Raelin is practically broken to begin with, it would have been different if you took a rather weak figure and made it better. This just seems unnecessary.

Now I wouldn't go as far as to call the unit unoriginal, it is, after all, straight from the comic book. As for the actual unit function, she does need something extra to make her more "evil" IMO. I'd like to see a Kee-Mo-Shi (her master) or anti-Jandar Synergy, but I'll save those for qt's thread.

[Messenger]

Originally Posted by krysto2002

Now I wouldn't go as far as to call the unit unoriginal, it is, after all, straight from the comic book. As for the actual unit function, she does need something extra to make her more "evil" IMO. I'd like to see a Kee-Mo-Shi (her master) or anti-Jandar Synergy, but I'll save those for qt's thread.

Hmmm...I'm not a custom creator (and I preemptively apologize for threadjacking) but this just gave me an idea for Evil Raelin:


WICKED AURA
All figures you control who follow Utgar within 4 clear sight spaces of Raelin add 2 to their defense dice. All figures who follow Jandar within 4 clear sight spaces of Raelin roll 2 less defense dice. Raelin's Wicked Aura does not affect Raelin.



Price her around 120pts, leave her other stats alone, and I think she'd work. She's pretty much confined to all-or-mostly-Utgar armies (not necessarily a bad thing (Stingers/Rat-podge)), and when she comes up against Knights/4th Mass/Nilf armies you've got major good-guy-boot-shaking going on.

If the -2def Jandar seems too extreme then how about making it -1def Jandar and then lowering her to 100pts?

[Dad_Scaper]

I think baterang has his own custom thread, hint hint.