HeroScape is coming back!

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by BigTicket

Adding my 2 cents in case anyone from renegade reads this. I think the reboot can satisfy most of the audience with or without the AoA content, but I think the new planets and associated units would benefit from being peppered in with more classic units from existing planets. I think it would go a long way to make existing fans more comfortable with adding new planets and factions if they are mixed in with orcs, marro, soulborgs, dwarves, primadons, and historical units we haven’t seen before. I think it was a mistake to “waste” pirates, which feel like one of the most obvious gaps in the existing historical units, by integrating them with the dawnraider syndicate. In short, to me, the issue was not the introduction of armored polar bears and alien bugs. It was at least partially the fact that the only orcs, humans, marro, soulborgs, dwarves, etc. were lumped into the dawnraider syndicate. I hope renegade introduces units like Aztecs, Spartans, more dwarves, normal pirates, more primadons, more vipers, more orcs (or maybe other factions from grut), post-apocalypse humans, etc. Whether the AoA factions make an appearance or not becomes a much less critical issue when they are “diluted” with classic units. I actually hope we don’t only get more units that are part of existing factions and I would personally be happy to see most of the AoA units at some point, but I think it might be better to a see a slower drip in waves that mix in classic factions and new factions from classic planets.

Preach brotha!

[Master Roshi]

Originally Posted by BigTicket

Adding my 2 cents in case anyone from renegade reads this. I think the reboot can satisfy most of the audience with or without the AoA content, but I think the new planets and associated units would benefit from being peppered in with more classic units from existing planets. I think it would go a long way to make existing fans more comfortable with adding new planets and factions if they are mixed in with orcs, marro, soulborgs, dwarves, primadons, and historical units we haven’t seen before. I think it was a mistake to “waste” pirates, which feel like one of the most obvious gaps in the existing historical units, by integrating them with the dawnraider syndicate. In short, to me, the issue was not the introduction of armored polar bears and alien bugs. It was at least partially the fact that the only orcs, humans, marro, soulborgs, dwarves, etc. were lumped into the dawnraider syndicate. I hope renegade introduces units like Aztecs, Spartans, more dwarves, normal pirates, more primadons, more vipers, more orcs (or maybe other factions from grut), post-apocalypse humans, etc. Whether the AoA factions make an appearance or not becomes a much less critical issue when they are “diluted” with classic units. I actually hope we don’t only get more units that are part of existing factions and I would personally be happy to see most of the AoA units at some point, but I think it might be better to a see a slower drip in waves that mix in classic factions and new factions from classic planets.

110%
I was also thinking that a slower release of the AoA stuff with more classic characters alongside them would be a good way to satisfy most fans

[TerminX]

jm2c but i get the feeling AoA focused on new factions to put people on a more even playing field - so new players didnt feel like half the synergies for their favorite figs from the starter set are a decade or more out of print. I figure more of that stuff would've been added eventually, like the grut war mammoth

that's just speculation though. and it doesn't really apply to historicals

[wriggz]

Originally Posted by TerminX

jm2c but i get the feeling AoA focused on new factions to put people on a more even playing field - so new players didnt feel like half the synergies for their favorite figs from the starter set are a decade or more out of print. I figure more of that stuff would've been added eventually, like the grut war mammoth

that's just speculation though. and it doesn't really apply to historicals

Let's say you are a multi billion dollar corporation and have become very aware how public perception impacts your share price. You may not be as inclined to make charatures of African tribes, Asian military leaders or British colonial soldiers mixed into a game accessable by 12 year olds. Othe war games tred the line with simulation of actual history.

Not saying this is the reason, but times are very different today then they were 10 years ago.

[IAmBatman]

The game has been out of production 13 years and was all DnD for that last stretch. So, yeah, it hasn't had to deal with any risks involving historical units for a bit.

[Bonesaw]

Originally Posted by wriggz

Let's say you are a multi billion dollar corporation and have become very aware how public perception impacts your share price. You may not be as inclined to make charatures of African tribes, Asian military leaders or British colonial soldiers mixed into a game accessable by 12 year olds. Othe war games tred the line with simulation of actual history.

Not saying this is the reason, but times are very different today then they were 10 years ago.

On other other hand, companies that don't bend the knee worrying they might upset one of the many just looking to have a problem with practically anything related to race/social issues may stand out in a positive light. Hell, some of these companies that are bending the knee and don't get it just right are seeing the same backlash anyway.

[Dysole]

One of the positions renegade was hiring for was cultural consultant. That does feel like at least a step in the right direction to release historical units that can satisfy the fandom while still respecting the culture it came from. I don't know what it means as to the frequency but I think odds are decent we'll get some historical units although it'll probably not be the Hollywood history that we got from the original run.

~Dysole, musingly

[wriggz]

Originally Posted by Bonesaw

On other other hand, companies that don't bend the knee worrying they might upset one of the many just looking to have a problem with practically anything related to race/social issues may stand out in a positive light. Hell, some of these companies that are bending the knee and don't get it just right are seeing the same backlash anyway.

Yeah, I feel the River tribe Mohicans (one of the last Historical units) were a really good example of doing it right. It is ever shifting soil, what seems normal and acceptable today may become taboo in a few years. I don't speak for C3V, but I'm not sure Confederate Rebels would have been created if they were proposed today.

[UtahScott]

Do not listen to the woke-scolds or online cry-bullies. Ever. They're a tiny minority, very loud (and organized--it's the reason for their existence), but they are not the market for your product and never will be.

And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
But we've proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
You never get rid of the Dane.

--Rudyard Kipling, "Dane-Geld"

I understand wanting to get things historically accurate. I am aware of the Puerto Rico 1897 background, for example. However, there is nothing wrong with Confederates or Union troops, "African tribes, Asian military leaders or British colonial soldiers mixed into a game accessible by 12 year olds, " whether it's historical or pop-culture references. OG HeroScape includes the Sacred Band!

Never give in to DEI madness, it's poison.

[TerminX]

DEI madness? lmao take it back to 4chan mate

Originally Posted by wriggz

Let's say you are a multi billion dollar corporation and have become very aware how public perception impacts your share price. You may not be as inclined to make charatures of African tribes, Asian military leaders or British colonial soldiers mixed into a game accessable by 12 year olds. Othe war games tred the line with simulation of actual history.

Not saying this is the reason, but times are very different today then they were 10 years ago.

I think that's correct. I doubt it was ever completely off the table but the whole revival was reliant on a crowdfund & that seems like an extremely bad time for a misstep

[Tornado]

[BigTicket]

I think the issue of cultural sensitivity makes the decision to lump pirates into the dawnraider syndicate in AoA even more puzzling. Pirates seem like one of the safest options to provide a historical faction that is unlikely to ruffle many feathers. I also think more Vikings would be a no brainer that should not introduce much sensitivity risk. The game is set in Valhalla and I have always been disappointed by the fact that you can’t really run a Viking centered army due to the lack of official common squads. I also think Spartans or more samurai/ninjas/knights would be fine due to popularity of those historical groups in media. Units depicting tribal groups like Aztecs or Zulus potentially introduce more risk, but I think taking some time to get it right with units that would require sensitivity would really be appreciated by history fans like myself who were originally drawn to the game due in large part to the historical units. Regardless of what level of risk the companies involved are willing to take, I hope they recognize the desire among at least some of the community for true historical units that are not part of the dawnraider syndicate or any other mixed faction.