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  #1  
Old August 19th, 2013, 12:47 AM
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Bay Area Brawl - NHSD '13

Let's get the band back together, gentlemen! Another Brawl approaches!

When: Saturday, Oct. 19th 2013 - 11am to 6:30/7pm.
Where: Ronin Games in Castro Valley.

Attendees
1.) cmgames
2.) Personwholives
3.) Serenity
4.) Zyx
5.) Carnival Man
6.) Carnival Boy
7.) CaptNoodleloaf
8.) RoninValentina
9.) BastionKain
10.) Nano41510 (?)
11.) Sanguinius
12.) Sanguinius' brother
13.) Jerry22

The Format: Hero Conquest

Players will bring one 600 army consisting of unique and uncommon heroes only, as well as OMs and dice. Be aware there is a 10 hex army limit! C3V and SoV units will allowed, but no Marvel. The object of Hero Conquest is not simply to eliminate your opponent, but to gain Conquest Points. These are gained by controlling (occupying) the Conquest Glyphs on the map at the end of each round, and award players one Conquest Point per Glyph controlled. Figures within 3 spaces of a Conquest Glyph (no LoS required) cannot be healed by any ability and additionally lose the benefit of defensive bonuses or augmentations provided by powers and special abilities of any other friendly figure.
(Why I'm implementing this: Having Conquest Glyphs negate bonuses from friendly units is here specifically to counter Raelin, especially since you would never have to place an OM on her to benefit from her. It also should make contention of Conquest Glyphs a little more cutthroat.)

Each match will be played in 50 minute rounds, and the winner will be the army with the most Conquest Points, or by being the first army to reach 15 Conquest Points. When time is called, the current round is finished. If the players are tied, at the end of a match, or if somehow both players reach 15 Points at the end of the same round, both players roll a d20. High roller removes one Conquest Glyph from the board, and then the second player removes a second Conquest Glyph. At this point, the game continues until a player scores a Conquest Point. Any units killed after time is called may not use Fight On.

In addition, every unique and uncommon hero gains the following abilities:

Tactical Movement - After revealing an order marker on this card and completing a turn with this hero, choose a different hero you control. The chosen hero may move normally but may not use powers that occur before or after moving. The figure selected with Tactical Movement does not have an attack phase. Powers that passively augment movement, such as Stealth Flight, Phantom Walk, or Carry work normally, but any movement power that could damage or actively impair your opponent during movement, such as Trample Stomp, may not be used during a move granted by Tactical Movement.
(Why I'm implementing this: This is to help keep the action more fast paced in a game with using only heroes, but is not intended to grant OM free offense.)

Fight On - When this hero is killed, place the figure on its card, unless you choose to use a power that allows it to be placed on another figure's card. Mindshackled figures are returned to their original owner upon death. At the start of the next round, before Order Markers are placed, you may return one destroyed Hero that you control that has been placed on its card to your start zone, removing all figures, wound, and status markers from its card. If the selected figure has a power that uses status markers, the figure regains the use of any power markers up to its normal limit that are not currently placed on another figure. (Why I'm implementing this: This is to ensure that the focus of the match remains on contention of Conquest Glyphs, though killing your opponent helps with map control.)

Maps:
Here are three maps for testing purposes. Note that there will be no glyphs in this format, save for Conquest Glyphs, represented by either Brandar Glyphs or any glyph face down.

Spoiler Alert!


The rules listed above are pretty much the final version of them for this event. I've put a good amount of thought into this so far, with some generous imput from some other players, but any questions, concerns, and above all, any playtesting you may do, please post about here in this thread. I think this format will be fast paced and interesting. Let me know what you think, and keep the date above in mind! Bay Area Brawl is only 2 months away. I hope to see all you awesome Nor-Cal Scapers there.


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Last edited by RoninValentina; October 17th, 2013 at 12:24 AM.
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  #2  
Old August 19th, 2013, 03:04 AM
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Re: Bay Area Brawl - NHSD '13

The format looks very interesting and promising for lots of intense fighting.

When you talk about losing bonuses near the glyphs, you are just referring to bonuses to attack and defense? If Raelin is on the glyph and other units are 4 spaces away, does that mean they'll get the defense bonus from her?
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Old August 19th, 2013, 03:37 AM
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Re: Bay Area Brawl - NHSD '13

Excellent questions. For simplicity's sake, any Aura or Enhancement that adds dice to another friendly figure's attack or defense is negated while within three spaces of a Conquest Glyph.

I suppose that yes, were Raelin to be occupying the Glyph, she could then project her Aura out beyond the Conquest Glyph's negation range. Raelin herself is not a particularly durable figure, so removing her from a Glyph she's occupying shouldn't be overly difficult.

Honestly I don't want to outright ban a single figure, and I can see Raelin working well in a couple of specific strategies. What I don't want, however, is someone parking a high defense unit like Q9 or Ne-Gok-Sa on a Conquest Glyph with Raelin sitting in the back and making that Glyph ridiculous to retake. Especially as I think "Tactical Movement" is really going to make an all hero format work, but also could lead to some very silly Raelin abuse.


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Old August 19th, 2013, 12:12 PM
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Re: Bay Area Brawl - NHSD '13

Question on Tactical Movement, does the chosen hero get a full turn except no attack phase? Or only a move? The Carry ability is what inspired this question - can the chosen figure can carry another figure during their move?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoninValentina View Post
Tactical Movement - After completing a turn with this with this hero in which an order marker was revealed on this card, choose a different hero you control. The chosen hero may move normally but does not have an attack phase.
This is phrased a little awkwardly. Perhaps:
After revealing an order marker on this card and completing a turn with this hero...

~Z


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  #5  
Old August 19th, 2013, 01:16 PM
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Re: Bay Area Brawl - NHSD '13

When a hero is moved using tactical movement, do they get to use abilities that refer to "After moving and before attacking"?

For the map Vigilant, can the towers be landed on and if so, are there ladders to climb?

Last edited by Serenity; August 19th, 2013 at 01:46 PM.
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  #6  
Old August 19th, 2013, 02:36 PM
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Re: Bay Area Brawl - NHSD '13

During Tactical Movement, can the hero use during-movement abilities (like Tor-Kul-Na's Trample Stomp)?

~Z


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  #7  
Old August 19th, 2013, 06:08 PM
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Re: Bay Area Brawl - NHSD '13

I think clarifying that extra move as "takes a turn, but may not attack" or "may move up to its movement value" is going to be important. If you can't use during movement abilities (like trample stomp), can you still use any abilities (like disengage or (stealth) flying)? If so, what is the distinction? What about "after moving and before attacking" abilities (I just saw serenity asked that one too)?

If I negate a figure, does that mean he can't come back? Do you remove all markers when you bring a figure back (lycanthropy, negation, etc), or just wounds?

Loses all bonuses: just aura type bonuses, or all bonuses? How does that work for, say, kyrie leadership? If I'm moving towards the glyph, and it would be my "bonus" movement point to get into the 3 space range, can I not take that movement? If I'm leaving the "no bonus" aura of the glyph, do I get that "bonus" movement point as soon as I leave the zone? If I'm crossing the zone, do I have/not have/have again the bonus movement point?

Serenity: Towers on vigilant are uncapped - you can't land on them. Think of them as trees, but not trees.

I'm going to do some thinking about this. I think I've already got some fun army ideas, but we'll see.

ETA: more questions/formatting

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Last edited by personwholives; August 19th, 2013 at 06:34 PM. Reason: 2 of the 3 armies I came up with.... I need to drag somebody over for a game to test them, because it's gonna be funny.
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Old August 19th, 2013, 07:00 PM
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Re: Bay Area Brawl - NHSD '13

If one of the warrior spirit units dies (Thorgim, Finn, & Eldgrim) and you place the figure on the card of a hero that subsequently dies. If you choose that hero to return via Fight On, does he return with the Warrior Spirit still?

~Z


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  #9  
Old August 19th, 2013, 07:56 PM
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Re: Bay Area Brawl - NHSD '13

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmgames View Post
If one of the warrior spirit units dies (Thorgim, Finn, & Eldgrim) and you place the figure on the card of a hero that subsequently dies. If you choose that hero to return via Fight On, does he return with the Warrior Spirit still?

~Z
I thought about that one, but with the Fight On power, wouldn't this not matter - as the figure is placed on his own card to send back out into battle? Which power takes priority? Or, if "uses of fight on" was the tiebreaker, could you use the spirit figures to boost an ally and not increase your tiebreaker uses?

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  #10  
Old August 19th, 2013, 08:03 PM
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Re: Bay Area Brawl - NHSD '13

Quote:
Originally Posted by personwholives View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmgames View Post
If one of the warrior spirit units dies (Thorgim, Finn, & Eldgrim) and you place the figure on the card of a hero that subsequently dies. If you choose that hero to return via Fight On, does he return with the Warrior Spirit still?

~Z
I thought about that one, but with the Fight On power, wouldn't this not matter - as the figure is placed on his own card to send back out into battle? Which power takes priority? Or, if "uses of fight on" was the tiebreaker, could you use the spirit figures to boost an ally and not increase your tiebreaker uses?
If you are only allowed to bring one unit back each round, you could choose to leave Finn/Thorgrim/Eldgrim dead to continue to confer his power to the chosen hero IF the Warrior Spirit remains on the card.

Oh, I see the issue - the Fight On special ability say to place the figure on its own card, the Warrior Spirit abilities say to place the figure on a different card. Right. Which "place figure" ability takes precedence?

~Z


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  #11  
Old August 19th, 2013, 11:17 PM
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Re: Bay Area Brawl - NHSD '13

Okay. Let me go down the list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmgames View Post
Question on Tactical Movement, does the chosen hero get a full turn except no attack phase? Or only a move? The Carry ability is what inspired this question - can the chosen figure can carry another figure during their move?
The chosen figure does NOT get a full turn, only a move. The wording of "the hero may move normally but does not get an attack phase" is specifically there to counter abilities that trigger "...after moving but before attacking..." As the figure does not have an attack phase, it cannot perform any action that is triggered "before attacking."

As for abilities like Carry, and Stealth Flying? Those abilities would apply. Cyprien's "normal movement" is Stealth Flying. He only doesn't if Stealth Fly if he has been negated, or if Rannveig is in play. Carry is okay as well, since it happens anytime Brunak moves, be it whether he moves because of an OM or not. Trample Stomp however, will not apply, and here is why.

The purpose of Tactical Movement is to help maneuver heroes into the fight without spending OMs to do so. In a game where your army is 4-6 heroes, you will never have OMs to move them all at a time. With the goal of the event is capturing and holding Glyphs, a player who is forced to spend OMs to just move forces back into position is going to slide further and further behind. Tactical Movement gives players the opportunity for reinforcing while also maintaining pressure with units that can attack. It also makes for additional strategic considerations about what your opponent can do. What Tactical Movement is NOT intended to do is grant free offense, so here is the rule of thumb I am working upon. Any movement power (Stealth Flight, Carry) that passively benefits the figure moving is fine. Any power that directly impedes or harms an enemy figure, is not. If this rule is sufficient for you, that works for me. If you want me to be more specific, then ask me here or with some help we can compile a complete Yes/No listing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cmgames
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoninValentina View Post
Tactical Movement - After completing a turn with this with this hero in which an order marker was revealed on this card, choose a different hero you control. The chosen hero may move normally but does not have an attack phase.
This is phrased a little awkwardly. Perhaps:
After revealing an order marker on this card and completing a turn with this hero...

~Z
It is. It was late, okay? I'll change it in the OP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
When a hero is moved using tactical movement, do they get to use abilities that refer to "After moving and before attacking"?

For the map Vigilant, can the towers be landed on and if so, are there ladders to climb?
Good questions, but I think both have been answered now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmgames View Post
During Tactical Movement, can the hero use during-movement abilities (like Tor-Kul-Na's Trample Stomp)?

~Z
Answered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by personwholives View Post
I think clarifying that extra move as "takes a turn, but may not attack" or "may move up to its movement value" is going to be important. If you can't use during movement abilities (like trample stomp), can you still use any abilities (like disengage or (stealth) flying)? If so, what is the distinction? What about "after moving and before attacking" abilities (I just saw serenity asked that one too)?

If I negate a figure, does that mean he can't come back? Do you remove all markers when you bring a figure back (lycanthropy, negation, etc), or just wounds?

Loses all bonuses: just aura type bonuses, or all bonuses? How does that work for, say, kyrie leadership? If I'm moving towards the glyph, and it would be my "bonus" movement point to get into the 3 space range, can I not take that movement? If I'm leaving the "no bonus" aura of the glyph, do I get that "bonus" movement point as soon as I leave the zone? If I'm crossing the zone, do I have/not have/have again the bonus movement point?
Negating a figure negates the figure until it has been destroyed. It does not negate the power Fight On, through the clever technicality of Fight On not being printed on the figure's card, but rather Fight On is granted by Event Rules. When a figure uses Fight On to return to the board, it comes back with all powers in effect.

As for what powers a Conquest Glyph negates, I said above to Serenity that it only negates powers of friendly figures which grant additional dice to attack or defense to the figures within range of the Glyph. But I've been thinking about it, and I'd like to change that here. I'll fix this in the OP above.

Figures within 3 spaces of a Conquest Glyph (no LoS requires) lose any defensive bonuses or augmentations provided by powers and special abilities of any friendly figure.

I'm fine with movement bonuses, attack bonuses, and so on. I want matches to be fast paced and action packed, not slow crawl slugfests. Any power that'd add defensive dice, augment blanks into shields, allow a figure to possibly not be destroyed, or any other power that increases a figures survivability would not apply within 3 spaces of a Glyph, though it would apply elsewhere.

Questions about Finn:
Spoiler Alert!

Here's the deal with Finn. When Finn dies, the player who controls him may choose to place him either on another figure's card, or on his own. If Finn is placed on his own card, Fight On applies as written above. When Finn is placed on another figure's card, Finn grants that other hero +1 attack. However, Finn cannot be chosen by Fight On, as he has not been placed on his own card. Once the figure Finn was placed on is destroyed, the destroyed figure is places on its own card, and Finn is placed on his own card. When the destroyed unit that is not Finn is returned to the board using Fight On, it no longer has Finn's bonus, as Finn is either sitting on his own card, or has been previously returned to the board.

Did I miss anything? Something not well enough clarified? Let me know! Thanks for the questions so far, gentlemen.


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Last edited by RoninValentina; August 19th, 2013 at 11:22 PM.
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Old August 20th, 2013, 02:37 PM
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Re: Bay Area Brawl - NHSD '13

You didn't exactly answer this question: Do you remove all markers when you bring a figure back (lycanthropy, negation, etc), or just wounds?

Also, if I were to bring a werewolf lord army - do my lycanthropy markers "recharge" on a respawn? (If they go away from my opponents units when they respawn, I'd probably want to recharge them when I respawn (or get them back when they're removed), or I'm not getting a good effect out of them) (Yes, I'm actually thinking about this army. It could be hilarious)

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