Classic Heroscape Power Rankings

[Typhon2222]

Hah! Very interesting. Thanks for the neat history, Jexik. Sheds a lot of light on part of the game's history I know NOTHING about. I started buying it on the very day its discontinuation was announced, shortly before Wave 13 was released.

[Jexik]

Originally Posted by Typhon2222

Hah! Very interesting. Thanks for the neat history, Jexik. Sheds a lot of light on part of the game's history I know NOTHING about. I started buying it on the very day its discontinuation was announced, shortly before Wave 13 was released.

You could try reading this entire thread, or the battle reports of GenCon winners.

That's how I started... when there was a lot less to read!

I started playing in 2007, a month before GenCon. Too late to go, but I read up on what was going on. Neo and Spider knocked each other out of day 2 by tying a match with somewhat similar 4th builds, and each losing one other game. (Oddly enough, I believe Neo's 4th were Mattser's lone Day 1 loss with his Vydar Ranged army.) 2nd place was Ry's rat-podge sans Q9 or Raelin, and 3rd was Lonewolf's Trons. (4th was Jormi's later infamous Stingers, the first known case of "denial" in tournament play).

[Matthias Maccabeus]

Originally Posted by Jexik

Back in the day, Joe wrote the initial incarnation of this thread essentially as a joke. It was his way of saying "Arrow Gruts are really good, and Jason is wrong. Here's what else is good."

But people liked it. Then they took it seriously.

I think Grimnak was way down in the B- range. Heavy Gruts were B's, probably. Raelin, Rats, 4th, and Q9 were all A+. Stingers didn't exist yet. Most early tournament map designs,* glyph selections, (and the game mechanics) favored ranged armies. Point totals tended to be down around 400.

Around the time that Stingers became popular, Matthias Maccabeus started playing Heroscape in tournaments. Knights (which Joe had recently ranked as As or A-s, along with Sir Gilbert) were essentially an army waiting for a player. As large Heroscape tournaments got larger, space became more of an issue and popular maps got even smaller and more melee-friendly.* Stingers have a bad match-up v. bonded melee usually. Knights are a little less afraid of Q9 than most ranged squads are, usually. Then you throw in MM's mock-chivalry, and bam, melee is viable.

But Knights were still bad against rats. Heavy Gruts solve the rat issue while they get a little worse comparatively v. 4th&10th.

As for where Joe's Arrow Gruts went, I blame Stingers. They do much of the same stuff (kill heroes well, have 3-figure ranged for cheap) but without as much finicky placement.

*With no real data to back myself up, my gut says that contemporary map design is the biggest reason that melee has improved, but Romans have not joined in the party as much- many of these maps with more LoS blockers and skinny roads don't favor their formation.

You forgot the part where I beat Joe's trons with my gruts.

[Unhinged Manchild]

Zettian Guards at B-? I swear I saw them at like D a few months ago. Am I missing something big about them?

[Aldin]

Originally Posted by brandonwiker

Zettian Guards at B-? I swear I saw them at like D a few months ago. Am I missing something big about them?

Not really. Having said that, it isn't so much that they're bad as that they have a low offensive output. You can build decent armies containing them. Try:

Taelord 180
Torin 120
Raelin 80
Zetacron 60
Marro Warriors 50
Zettian Guard 70
Deathreavers 40
600/15

Order Marker management will be a minor pain, but you have a fairly tough defensive nut that you can force your opponent to attempt to crack which could very well leave you the ZG as your end game clean up force against enemies that simply can't scratch their paint.

~Aldin, playing the "every dog has his day" game

[Unhinged Manchild]

Originally Posted by Aldin

Not really. Having said that, it isn't so much that they're bad as that they have a low offensive output. You can build decent armies containing them. Try:

Taelord 180
Torin 120
Raelin 80
Zetacron 60
Marro Warriors 50
Zettian Guard 70
Deathreavers 40
600/15

Order Marker management will be a minor pain, but you have a fairly tough defensive nut that you can force your opponent to attempt to crack which could very well leave you the ZG as your end game clean up force against enemies that simply can't scratch their paint.

~Aldin, playing the "every dog has his day" game

Lol that's one big force just to make the zettian's usable! To be frank, I think most "less viable" units are going to be decent in an army with rae, tae, and rats (and nothing personal against you or your post, aldin, just to be clear). I like to use them occasionally, and I'm not expecting a grade change for them, but I'm not convinced they earn a B-, especially when that's in the same class as thorgrim and kelda, both of whom I've seen on my table plenty of times more than the zettians

[Jexik]

To be cute, I think Hendal used them in day 2 at GenCon in his mostly-stinger army a year or two ago.

Their stats aren't terrible. If they were common, they'd be oddly decent, I think.

[dok]

Yep, Hendal was one win away from hoisting the trophy with Zettians in 2009, but Mattser's ratpodge took him down.

[Unhinged Manchild]

Well I guess they're better than I thought. I think the best I've ever seen them do is killing two squads of phantom knights at the end of a game ftw... And I was the one fielding the PKs, none the less. But most of the time, I see them die often to the MW or stingers rolling two skulls

[kampfer]

I am kind of interested to see a wave-by-wave analysis of this...

[Jexik]

Originally Posted by kampfer

I am kind of interested to see a wave-by-wave analysis of this...

I've seen something like that before, just dig around.

[TheSparkleInYourWater]

Originally Posted by kampfer

I am kind of interested to see a wave-by-wave analysis of this...

Here's a recent one...

http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ad.php?t=39082