Bay Area Brawl - NorCal NHSD'08

[Onacara]

FYI guys...I found a scale SF street car to incorporate into your trophy.

[Satyr]

I've been thinking about this battle of immortals a fair amount these days and I think it will be good fun. So much fun in fact that I have been spreading the word.

Kakaw, Kakaw ... CCC where are you ???

I was gaming with Racer X today and it looks like he will be joining the party. Heretic? 1more? Dnutt? Let’s get this thang rolling!

I'm still a bit concerned about breaking the game with immortals. I'm a big fan of removing bonding, no healing, and I like removing turn marks on unblocked hits. I just wonder about the d20 roll if an immortal gets hit by a non-immortal. Is this necessary? Should there be a d20 roll at all? 25% chance to stop an immortal with a non-immortal seems pretty narrow. I can see Cyprien on a stealth flying killing spree. I'm wondering if a hit from a non-immortal on an immortal should just automatically remove an order marker. 50-50 chance ?

I haven’t tested out any of the highlander-scape rules yet, but spinnin' them about me head, removing the d20 threshold seems like it would be a good balance. Thoughts?

How about Maps? Selected BOV maps (I think a few of them are broken ... Broken Skyline for example) ??? I'm also in the process of creating a 1 MS tourney map ... still need to see how it turns out.

And last but not least: Single elimination without a power of 2 people is a real &1t<# ... I think with a combination of byes and 2nd lives for top contenders we can make it work. The best I could come up with is using the best point differential from the losing bracket to complete a winning bracket. If a player manages to get eliminated twice ...tough luck, you are out of it. Not great, but work-able

[S1R_ART0R1US]

I don't reallt think a point differential would work since the focus is to kill the opposing Immortal, not whatever other units are out there.

[RoninValentina]

Originally Posted by Satyr

I'm still a bit concerned about breaking the game with immortals. I'm a big fan of removing bonding, no healing, and I like removing turn marks on unblocked hits. I just wonder about the d20 roll if an immortal gets hit by a non-immortal. Is this necessary? Should there be a d20 roll at all? 25% chance to stop an immortal with a non-immortal seems pretty narrow. I can see Cyprien on a stealth flying killing spree. I'm wondering if a hit from a non-immortal on an immortal should just automatically remove an order marker. 50-50 chance ?

I haven’t tested out any of the highlander-scape rules yet, but spinnin' them about me head, removing the d20 threshold seems like it would be a good balance. Thoughts?

You're hitting the nail on the head, Satyr, about balance that is. Here's where I was coming from: There has to be some form of risk for Immortals when facing non Immortal figures. If commons posed no threat, then A) why have them on the board at all, and B) What would stop Immortals like Cyprien from slaying all commons on the board with impunity? That established, the question is finding the balance of risk vs reward. I chose a 30% chance of risk on normal attacks because while a single normal attack isn't likely to get through, squads will likely get more than one crack at it per activation. Three fifty fifty chances seems pretty likely to pull that order marker from the Immortal. When you only have three Order Markers a round, it's pretty significant to lose even one. To keep the game from potentially stalemating as Immortals continously lose turns, I felt a slightly lower risk than 50% was in order, as well and making Immortals still feel as if they were more powerful than other figures. I did get in a fair bit of playtesting in yesterday, and afterwards I felt pretty satisfied. But since then, as I continue to think about it, I still have a couple of creeping doubts.

The biggest thing I noticed, which I both liked, and disliked, was that battles would begin with a intial non-Immortal jockeying for position, securing heights, glyphs, and the like, and then one player would bring out their Immortal, advancing across the map directly, until the two were locked in combat. After one fell, the game was over, though there were often plenty of units remaining in play. Perhaps that 30% risk isn't quite enough. I'll do a little bit more chewing on it myself. Perhaps Alastair was correct, a blanket D20 of 12 or 13+ to remove an order marker on any unblocked Skull.

The other issue that came up in yesterday's playtesting (Again, thank you S1R ART0R1US) is the issue of unblockable hits, like Disengagement Attacks and say, lava tiles. Wind Lane was right, as much as I liked the idea of Immortals being about to more freely disengage, it was way too abusable. The primary issue being, if its the last OM of the round, or the only OM to reveal on your Immortal, there was no consequence to be had. I'll post a v2.0 ruleset soon.

Originally Posted by Satyr

How about Maps? Selected BOV maps (I think a few of them are broken ... Broken Skyline for example) ??? I'm also in the process of creating a 1 MS tourney map ... still need to see how it turns out.

I had been choosing maps for a few days now, and I had selected Broken Skyline. I wanted maps that felt like epic dueling locations for Immortals. What did you mean by Broken Skyline being broken?

Originally Posted by Satyr

And last but not least: Single elimination without a power of 2 people is a real &1t<# ... I think with a combination of byes and 2nd lives for top contenders we can make it work. The best I could come up with is using the best point differential from the losing bracket to complete a winning bracket. If a player manages to get eliminated twice ...tough luck, you are out of it. Not great, but work-able

Yeah, thanks for the help with this Satyr, I couldn't wrap my head around it. I'm going to agree with S1R about point differential. Since games end with the death of the opponent Immortal, its not necessary to kill off anyone else in the opposing army. Unless... I'm only sketchy about how Point Differential works, so maybe this idea is BS. Assign Immortals a static point value, like... 500. A loser in an Immortals receives 0 points for that match, and his point total does not increase or decrease in any way. The winner of the match however receives a postive point total to their score based on the value of enemy units he or she destroyed minus what her or she lost.

I win match two. My opponent loses. His point total remains static from match one. He has 590 points. My point total from match one is 610. In match two, I destroyed 730 points, (His Immortal plus 230 additional) but I lost 250. My new point total after match two is 1090. (610+480)

Would this work?

[Malechi]

Quit putting the horse before the cart!

Can we find an place to freakin' play the game!!!

[RoninValentina]

I can't make the Event Coordinator for Games of Berkeley work any faster, Malechi. He told me he shouldn't have any issue giving us the time slot I want, but he wasn't going to make October's Event Calender until later in September. I emailed him again earlier today; it having been a few weeks, and reminded him of our interest. Believe me, I'll be posting confirmation the moment I get it. That's why it's been tentative. I posted as much a page back, I believe. While I'm waiting for that, I might as well continue working on things like Rules for the events many people are interested in.

[RoninValentina]

Thread bump. Important new info!

I now have venue confirmation. NHSD'08 will indeed be held at Games of Berkeley. I will be driving out there this Saturday to scope out our game room, check out parking, and the like. Obviously this is exciting news, and GoB is glad to have us. For those of you awaiting location confirmation to sign up, give a shout if you can make it now. Well, except Malechi. He can just edit the first post himself. I look forward to seeing as many of you as can make at Games of Berkeley come Oct. 18th!

[Alastair MacDirk]

1) Best sentence of the thread to date.....
[quote=RoninValentina;670566]

Originally Posted by Satyr

Alastair was correct, a blanket D20 of 12 or 13+ to remove an order marker on any unblocked Skull.

2) Can't be there to defend my champion-ness. Anniversary plans for that weekend. Whoever wins is going to have to settle for being the new champ with an asterisk. Just because you gotta beat the old champ on the battlefield to really be considered anything but a pretender to the throne.

3) Even though I can't attend doesn't mean that I feel my urge to comment on the ruleset stifled. Seems like you need to find a way to stop it from becoming a Cyprien-fest. Even without lifedrain he has stealth flying and potential to kill the other immortal with one roll.

[Satyr]

For the record, I try to never quote MacDirk in a positive light ... though a good friend he is, it just goes right to his head. I also try to never take Malechi's bait ... though sometimes it's just soooo yummy

GoB ... Cool! One of my favorite game stores. Parking in downtown Berkeley can be a pain in the @$$, but BART is directly across the street ... not too helpful if your bringing a map, but good for others.

Originally Posted by RoninValentina

The biggest thing I noticed, which I both liked, and disliked, was that battles would begin with a intial non-Immortal jockeying for position, securing heights, glyphs, and the like, and then one player would bring out their Immortal, advancing across the map directly, until the two were locked in combat. After one fell, the game was over, though there were often plenty of units remaining in play. Perhaps that 30% risk isn't quite enough. I'll do a little bit more chewing on it myself. Perhaps xxxxx was correct, a blanket D20 of 12 or 13+ to remove an order marker on any unblocked Skull.

Exactly. There needs to be a reason to use and eliminate the supporting minions. If they are a minimal threat, the games will end with heaps of figures still on the map. If the threashold is right there should be tough desisions ... activate a unit to remove an order marker and kill some support figures, activate a unit to protect my order markers, activate my immortal to wrack some havoc.

What's the high gound worth to a figure that neither attacks nor gets attacked?

Originally Posted by RoninValentina

I had been choosing maps for a few days now, and I had selected Broken Skyline. I wanted maps that felt like epic dueling locations for Immortals. What did you mean by Broken Skyline being broken?

We had a gameday a few months ago where Broken Skyline was a map in play. As I recall a fair number of games on that map were complete routs (more so than any other map). The towers in the center were the main culprit. It is very difficult to bring in reinforcements to get a shooter off of the top of a tower.

Originally Posted by RoninValentina

Yeah, thanks for the help with this Satyr, I couldn't wrap my head around it. I'm going to agree with S1R about point differential. Since games end with the death of the opponent Immortal, its not necessary to kill off anyone else in the opposing army. Unless... I'm only sketchy about how Point Differential works, so maybe this idea is BS. Assign Immortals a static point value, like... 500. A loser in an Immortals receives 0 points for that match, and his point total does not increase or decrease in any way. The winner of the match however receives a postive point total to their score based on the value of enemy units he or she destroyed minus what her or she lost.

I win match two. My opponent loses. His point total remains static from match one. He has 590 points. My point total from match one is 610. In match two, I destroyed 730 points, (His Immortal plus 230 additional) but I lost 250. My new point total after match two is 1090. (610+480)

Would this work?

Your scoring is not too different from standard PD except: 1) all immortals are worth the same and 2) the loser's score remains static. Immortals worth a fixed amount ... sure no problems. An issue comes up during the second round seeding with an odd number of people going into it. We need a way to sort out the defeated, but they all have a score of 0 because their point total did not change after the first game.

I'm going to stick with my first answer of PD and combine it with my earlier statements that the other units need to be fairly important, or why even bother having them on the board.

[Malechi]

Originally Posted by RoninValentina

NHSD'08 will indeed be held at Games of Berkeley.

Excellent news, I can now confirm my presence at the event! Now what are these specialty rules I have been ignoring for the past month?

Originally Posted by RoninValentina

... I will be driving out there this Saturday to scope out our game room, check out parking, and the like...

Get yourself ready to play Here I Go Driving Around the Block for hours at a time ... Bezzerkely has the worst downtown by the campus parking availability I have ever encountered.

[Alastair MacDirk]

Originally Posted by Satyr

Exactly. There needs to be a reason to use and eliminate the supporting minions.

Umm. According to Jekix's lengthy article on the topic, I believe you are off-base in calling The Minions supporting (cheerleader) units. Jekix has them classified as sharks....... Who do you feel they support???? Taelord with Utgar Orders?

[S1R_ART0R1US]

I think he just means minions as in the non-immortals