Curt's Customs

[Curt]

Originally Posted by Sherman Davies

I LOVE Tortles as a species name. It has just the right amount of dumb, Saturday morning cartoon flavor that works perfectly for Heroscape.

Glad to see you became a Site Supporter and are taking advantage of the privileges.

I wish I could take credit for the creativity, but it's just their species name from D&D and I liked it so I kept it.

Happy to support the site! I rarely go to the home page and when I do, I just immediately click on Forums, so I had no idea there was a way to donate until it was pointed out to me.

[Curt]

Originally Posted by Myriadite

I can already guess what miniature this will be! I currently use this same tortle miniature as a proxy for Master Woo since it is $430 cheaper.

Yeah I'd wager you'd get it correct. It's a fun mini and hopefully it's a fun design (note that I originally wanted to do a Leap 6, which I was referencing, but remembering the heights for all the obstacles has probably rendered that idea a bit impractical, so I probably need to update his bio at some point).

[Curt]

Update to Colossus

Steel Bulwark replaced with Specialized Weaponry.
Tactical Strike reworded to remove modifiers/reference to Steel Bulwark.

Steel Bulwark felt like too much of a weaker retread of Crag of Steel. I couldn't find a good balance between making it an actual choice in play, as I would have to either neuter his attack post-activation (made him pointless without warforged) or defense pre-activation (he died way too quickly).

Specialized Weaponry makes him effective against large/huge figures, but not to the extent as a figure like Marutuk.

Things I'm testing specifically.

Possible General Change from Vydar to Einar. This might thematically differentiate Colossus from the other Warforged, as they share nothing in common other than being "Warforged" in a way similar to how Q-10 and Deathreavers are both Soulbrogs.

Considering lowering proc rate for Tactical Strike from 12 to 10. If Tactical Strike does not happen often, I would prefer for the proc rate to be increased slightly.

Lastly, I'm still playing with the "Tor-Kul-Na" stomp movement.

Colossus

Spoiler Alert!

Smash and Cleave
Range 1, Attack 4
When Colossus attacks with his Smash and Cleave Special Attack, he may attack one additional time.

Specialized Weaponry
Large and huge figures roll 1 fewer defense die against Colossus.

Tactical Strike 12
If an opponent's figure is moved adjacent to Colossus by a friendly figure's special power, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 12 or higher, the opponent's figure receives a wound. If the figure is destroyed, you may move Colossus onto the space the figure occupied. Figures may be targeted only as they are moved into engagement with Colossus.

[SkyWhale]

I really like the changed made to Colossus! I think removing reverse bonding will make the unit most interesting in the long run.

I am a bit curious how often Tactical Strike will come up, however. Seems like the easy way to avoid it is to just not have your figures end their movement exactly 2 spaces away from the Colossus.

[Curt]

Originally Posted by SkyWhale

I really like the changed made to Colossus! I think removing reverse bonding will make the unit most interesting in the long run.

I am a bit curious how often Tactical Strike will come up, however. Seems like the easy way to avoid it is to just not have your figures end their movement exactly 2 spaces away from the Colossus.

Thank you! Your comment in the Pre-SOV forum about the previous iteration essentially smothering the Warforged Soldier's original design enlightened me with a perspective I didn't have and is something I kept in mind when making these changes. (along with Ryguy's explanation as to why competitively it'd be very powerful) So my goal for this iteration was to have Colossus be complimentary to the Warforged, but neither dependent on the other for success.

I do agree that Tactical Strike is not easy to hit, especially in the early game, but the problem it has is similar to moves like Fire Line or AoE Blast attacks, whose effectiveness can be diminished by thoughtful placement/movement. But like those moves, it can help you "control" space in a way, forcing the opponent to avoid certain spaces or willingly engage with Colossus. I think removing the reverse-bonding also helps here, as Tactical Strike no longer feels like the core utility of the unit, but more like a bonus, that is fun when it pops up.

[ryguy266]

Originally Posted by SkyWhale

I really like the changed made to Colossus! I think removing reverse bonding will make the unit most interesting in the long run.

I am a bit curious how often Tactical Strike will come up, however. Seems like the easy way to avoid it is to just not have your figures end their movement exactly 2 spaces away from the Colossus.

A lot of figures actually have quite a large threat range for this. Heracles, Arashara Goshiri, AoA Drake. Warforged is thematic and a strong unit for Colossus, but I actually really like that this version is Warforged-independent, because now he slots into a lot of different armies. For example, he could be a pretty solid unit in a crypt guardian/drow chainfighter army.

Rewording it to "moved onto a space adjacent to Colossus" instead of "moved adjacent to Colossus" would make engaging him more dangerous since you could drag him around the big guy to try to get strikes, but maybe that is too strong? Although there's very few units that can actually make use of this ability. The shortlist in my mind is Warforged, Arashara Goshiri, Drow Chainfighters, AoA Drake, Hoplitrons, Jotun, Heracles, and Wyvern. Romans and Arashara (in Delta) seem super fun with this guy. I also like that an army that makes use of tactical strike isn't necessary. For those stats he's a can opener and those are valuable in a lot of formats and metas. I'm a fan of this version.

[Curt]

Originally Posted by ryguy266

A lot of figures actually have quite a large threat range for this. Heracles, Arashara Goshiri, AoA Drake. Warforged is thematic and a strong unit for Colossus, but I actually really like that this version is Warforged-independent, because now he slots into a lot of different armies. For example, he could be a pretty solid unit in a crypt guardian/drow chainfighter army.

Rewording it to "moved onto a space adjacent to Colossus" instead of "moved adjacent to Colossus" would make engaging him more dangerous since you could drag him around the big guy to try to get strikes, but maybe that is too strong? Although there's very few units that can actually make use of this ability. The shortlist in my mind is Warforged, Arashara Goshiri, Drow Chainfighters, AoA Drake, Hoplitrons, Jotun, Heracles, and Wyvern. Romans and Arashara (in Delta) seem super fun with this guy. I also like that an army that makes use of tactical strike isn't necessary. For those stats he's a can opener and those are valuable in a lot of formats and metas. I'm a fan of this version.

Those are all great suggestions for trying out. Despite owning Arashara, I honestly forgot she exists and I forget that the new Drake has a chain grab also, as I only read his card once when it was revealed (hopefully the Necrotechs will come with their chain grab intact). I'll try testing him with the Arashara/RL build for sure. Thanks for the feedback!

[Scytale]

I'm liking the changes to Colossus overall. It is wise to lighten the ties to the Warforged Soldiers at let the unit stand on its own, or alongside other units.

Tactical Strike is problematic, though. Anything that does turn interruption is naturally dangerous, but this is designed to interrupt an interrupt ability and add in a movement (of a double-spaced figure even), that could itself trigger other powers like Braced Spear. That's the sort of thing we avoid in VC because it becomes a slippery slope, and further complicates the muddied web of abilities we already have. Calling out "a friendly figure's special power" is tricky. I could probably be convinced it works, but it raises lots of red flags as a VC Editor. The movement part is a no-go.

Is there something wrong with giving it good old Engagement Strike (or a version that also affects large)? It would require some rebalancing, but it accomplishes what you want with the Warforged synergy as well as making it a more formidable solo unit.

[Curt]

Originally Posted by Scytale

I'm liking the changes to Colossus overall. It is wise to lighten the ties to the Warforged Soldiers at let the unit stand on its own, or alongside other units.

Tactical Strike is problematic, though. Anything that does turn interruption is naturally dangerous, but this is designed to interrupt an interrupt ability and add in a movement (of a double-spaced figure even), that could itself trigger other powers like Braced Spear. That's the sort of thing we avoid in VC because it becomes a slippery slope, and further complicates the muddied web of abilities we already have. Calling out "a friendly figure's special power" is tricky. I could probably be convinced it works, but it raises lots of red flags as a VC Editor. The movement part is a no-go.

Is there something wrong with giving it good old Engagement Strike (or a version that also affects large)? It would require some rebalancing, but it accomplishes what you want with the Warforged synergy as well as making it a more formidable solo unit.

I agree that the movement can cause issues and the current version has dropped it. While I didn't run into any issues in my testing (because I wasn't using any units that'd cause the issue), it just felt unnecessary and it got removed as part of the fat-trimming process. t (I need to update the OP with the current iteration).

Regarding Engagement Strike, I guess I fear that he's a little too tanky for the power to feel balanced/fun. But I think it's worth testing as well as maybe brainstorming a third option and seeing which of the 3 feels the best.

I appreciate the feedback!

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Curt

Regarding Engagement Strike, I guess I fear that he's a little too tanky for the power to feel balanced/fun. But I think it's worth testing as well as maybe brainstorming a third option and seeing which of the 3 feels the best.

Yeah, like I said, would probably need rebalancing for Engagement Strike, but it's familiar and potent, even if the roll isn't good. I suppose a cleaner version of what you can that would limit chaining potential would be to limit to the effect to "during your turn", so only affects you do during your own turn could cause it.

I would again like to encourage you to consider making him not a Warforged. And I'm saying that as perhaps the most D&D purist in VC. I certainly can't complain because it is, in fact, a D&D warforged. But it's so different visually than Heroscape Warforged it just doesn't have to be, and would probably fit in more comfortably if it wasn't. There's some neat synergies in VC for Constructs that it could fit in nicely.

[Curt]

Originally Posted by Scytale

Yeah, like I said, would probably need rebalancing for Engagement Strike, but it's familiar and potent, even if the roll isn't good. I suppose a cleaner version of what you can that would limit chaining potential would be to limit to the effect to "during your turn", so only affects you do during your own turn could cause it.

I would again like to encourage you to consider making him not a Warforged. And I'm saying that as perhaps the most D&D purist in VC. I certainly can't complain because it is, in fact, a D&D warforged. But it's so different visually than Heroscape Warforged it just doesn't have to be, and would probably fit in more comfortably if it wasn't. There's some neat synergies in VC for Constructs that it could fit in nicely.

For clarification, are you recommending dropping "friendly" as in the ability can only trigger off of my units, not teammates? Sorry if I'm misunderstanding what you're saying about the chaining potential.

I think for initial testing I could try a type of Engagement Strike where it has a lower-than-normal Engagement Strike chance to hit smalls/mediums and a better chance to wound larger units or those moved to Colossus. But maybe that gets too wordy/complicated.

In your opinion, would a General and/or class change help differentiate Colossus as a different type of Warforged, similar to how each General's Soulborgs look very different from each other? I was already toying with the idea of a change to Einar, as the unit itself felt like it fit thematically better with that general.

[Curt]

Below are two drafts of Colossus with a few differences. I spread the differences out between the two, so it's not a Version A vs. Version B thing. I'd love any feedback of preferences between the two.

Version A (Vydar, Titan, Old Tactical Strike)

Spoiler Alert!

Version B (Einar, Construct, New Tactical Strike)

Spoiler Alert!

1. General - Einar vs. Vydar

Traditionally, Warforged are Vydar, but that was only 3 total units and we've seen other species traditionally associated with a single general branch out before, both in VC and OG when thematically appropriate. Being more of a war machine than a Warforged and Vydar having a lot of "Golem'-esque units in that design space already has me wondering if Einar might be a better fit and better thematically. I also think this might help distinguish Colossus from the other Warforged.

2. Class - Titan vs. Construct

My initial draft for Colossus had him as a Construct, but I changed it as to not mess with the Talingul Construct tree. But I think this iteration isn't suddenly going to alter the Construct meta, so per Scytale's suggestion, I'm giving this some consideration (along with a species change, albeit I'd prefer to stay with the source material if I can make it work).

Technically, all Warforged are constructs, but the humanoids are considered "living constructs" having sentience/emotion and such. The Warforged Titans are basically mindless war machines that heed their master's call. So Construct does thematically fit, and hopefully also distinguishes them their humanoid counterparts.

3. Tactical Strike Old vs New

Old (on the Vydar card) is just the simple version. Proc number is at 11 as it is pretty tricky to land with a Tactical Switch, and those with movement abilities like Drake 3, Drow Fighter, etc. would only have about a 25% chance of moving and wounding the figure.

New works a bit like Ice Spikes, in the sense that it can affect any size and has a condition to lower the proc number. Here the base number is pretty high, as Engagement Strike seems strong on a tanky unit, but allows an 11 to wound if the figure was moved adjacent to Colossus by a figure you control. Hopefully the wording isn't problematic, but if it is, I'm open to suggestions if you think this version is better.

I'm finding myself agreeing that having a power completely reliant on other units might be a weird (or poor) design choice. So I'm hoping this strikes (no pun intended) a balance between synergizing with movers while giving Colossus a bit more self reliance, even if the proc number isn't going to hit often.

Any feedback or preferences would be greatly appreciated, thanks!