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  #49  
Old September 25th, 2010, 08:08 PM
Xn F M's Avatar
Xn F M Xn F M is offline
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Re: SoCal Slaughter! 2010 attendance/prizes plus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xotli View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by hivelord View Post
Actually, the ruling is that you can attack you own figures. Which can be useful for instance when getting rid of a unit afflicted with lycanthropy or boosting Krug's attack.
Or healing your vampires, or extending a chained attack (e.g. Arcane Bolt). But I believe the rule is also that, when you attack one of your own figures, it is required that you roll all the defense dice it can. No saying "well, this guys wants to make the sacrifice, so he doesn't defend himself." ISTR it's in the FAQ. (Which we should probably have a copy of at the tourney AFA that goes. P'raps I'll print one out and bring it.)
I searched "Attack" in the current FAQ, but couldn't find it.

But we do have these:

http://www.heroscapers.com/community...t=15366&page=2

http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ead.php?t=5749

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  #50  
Old September 25th, 2010, 08:10 PM
hivelord hivelord is offline
 
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Re: SoCal Slaughter! 2010 attendance/prizes plus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xotli View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by hivelord View Post
Actually, the ruling is that you can attack you own figures. Which can be useful for instance when getting rid of a unit afflicted with lycanthropy or boosting Krug's attack.
Or healing your vampires, or extending a chained attack (e.g. Arcane Bolt). But I believe the rule is also that, when you attack one of your own figures, it is required that you roll all the defense dice it can. No saying "well, this guys wants to make the sacrifice, so he doesn't defend himself." ISTR it's in the FAQ. (Which we should probably have a copy of at the tourney AFA that goes. P'raps I'll print one out and bring it.)
Right. The FAQ states specifically that you must always roll all of your dice and that a figure may not attack itself. Oddly, it doesn't have an actual ruling of friendly fire. But rest assured the topic has been discussed pretty thoroughly.
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Last edited by hivelord; September 25th, 2010 at 08:16 PM.
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  #51  
Old September 26th, 2010, 12:47 AM
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LoneHero2008 LoneHero2008 is offline
 
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Re: SoCal Slaughter! 2010 attendance/prizes plus

This scaper still requires a ride. >_<

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  #52  
Old September 26th, 2010, 11:15 PM
warriorneedsfoodbadly warriorneedsfoodbadly is offline
 
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Re: SoCal Slaughter! 2010 attendance/prizes plus

I've read through the FAQ and couldn't find a direct ruling on allowing an army to harm its own. Thank you, Xn FM, for the links but I didn't see anything official in them, only personal opinions and reasonings.

Unless someone can show me an official ruling that allows this action, I am going to say, that for this tournament, it won't be allowed. You are a friendly or you are not a friendly.
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  #53  
Old September 26th, 2010, 11:39 PM
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Re: SoCal Slaughter! 2010 attendance/prizes plus

Quote:
Originally Posted by warriorneedsfoodbadly View Post
I've read through the FAQ and couldn't find a direct ruling on allowing an army to harm its own. Thank you, Xn FM, for the links but I didn't see anything official in them, only personal opinions and reasonings.

Unless someone can show me an official ruling that allows this action, I am going to say, that for this tournament, it won't be allowed. You are a friendly or you are not a friendly.
Show me where in the rules it says that you can't attack a friendly figure.

If you couldn't attack your own units then Hasbro would not have had to issue errata on the Deathreavers. They would have simply stated that by rule, you cannot attack your own figure; to do otherwise would have been nonsensical.

The Rules Team's stance on rules questions is that they only step in when the community cannot answer a question on their own. I'm well aware of the fact that just because that wasn't refuted in either of those threads doesn't mean it's necessarily the correct ruling. But the official procedure for rules questions on this site is to bring them before the community before taking them to the higher ups. If the community can come to a consensus on the proper procedure, we're not supposed to bother the big guys.

I'm going to be upfront here, one of the armies I was considering taking can do the Zelrig/Iron Golem trick (which none of the design team refuted during the pre-release discussions) so I'm a little biased. But if you need an official ruling to support the community one, there's more than enough time to email WotC.

~Xn

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  #54  
Old September 27th, 2010, 01:26 AM
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Re: SoCal Slaughter! 2010 attendance/prizes plus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xn F M View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by warriorneedsfoodbadly View Post
I've read through the FAQ and couldn't find a direct ruling on allowing an army to harm its own. Thank you, Xn FM, for the links but I didn't see anything official in them, only personal opinions and reasonings.

Unless someone can show me an official ruling that allows this action, I am going to say, that for this tournament, it won't be allowed. You are a friendly or you are not a friendly.
Show me where in the rules it says that you can't attack a friendly figure.

If you couldn't attack your own units then Hasbro would not have had to issue errata on the Deathreavers. They would have simply stated that by rule, you cannot attack your own figure; to do otherwise would have been nonsensical.

The Rules Team's stance on rules questions is that they only step in when the community cannot answer a question on their own. I'm well aware of the fact that just because that wasn't refuted in either of those threads doesn't mean it's necessarily the correct ruling. But the official procedure for rules questions on this site is to bring them before the community before taking them to the higher ups. If the community can come to a consensus on the proper procedure, we're not supposed to bother the big guys.

I'm going to be upfront here, one of the armies I was considering taking can do the Zelrig/Iron Golem trick (which none of the design team refuted during the pre-release discussions) so I'm a little biased. But if you need an official ruling to support the community one, there's more than enough time to email WotC.

~Xn
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  #55  
Old September 27th, 2010, 11:02 PM
Detrimentalman Detrimentalman is offline
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Re: SoCal Slaughter! 2010 attendance/prizes plus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leotheanimal87 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by hivelord View Post
Actually, the ruling is that you can attack you own figures. Which can be useful for instance when getting rid of a unit afflicted with lycanthropy or boosting Krug's attack. This was brought up most thoroughly in discussion of the Deathreavers and scatter. Since you can attack your own figures an errata was required to not allow a scatter when a rat attacks a teammate.

Quote:
SCATTER: After a Deathreaver you control rolls defense dice against a normal attack from an opponent’s figure, you may move any 2 Deathreavers you control up to 4 spaces each. (Hasbro FAQ)
The bold portion implies that you may attack your own figures.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the heads up guys. I just want to know, is there any special tournament rules I should know about? Detrimentalman was telling me in the event I went to that there was this rule that if a character is flying, it has to look forward or something. Any other rules like that? It will be my first time playing in serious tournament so I don't want to look like a noob lol

What I said was that there was some kind of rule for double spaced figures and I couldn't remember what it was, but that it didnt matter since you had none. I knew it was something about how they landed. The rule that I couldn't recall correctly is that a double spaced figured would count the landing space as two whether they were landing on one or two slippery/heavy terrain. In other words you wouldn't count the landing as 4 only 3, one for flight and 2 for the one front space (which is where I got confused about the front).


I think it is very clear logically that you may attack your own army based on the rules (which don't expressly forbid it and further by the language on the cards). If you are not able to attack your own troops the errata would not be necessary for the rats and other figures that distinguish an opponent's attack from your own when defending. This is the exact argument I made to you the other day wnfb.

1. If you can not attack your own troops then the only attacks would be from opponents.
2. Certain abilities stipulate that the attack must be made by an opponent in order to use them.
3. If you can not attack your own troops then there is no reason to clarify if the attack is from an opponents figure or not.

Therefore, you may attack your own figures.

I am missing various figures, probably borrowed and never returned. My initials SMT are on the underside of the base on all of my figures, thanks in advance for returning them upon discovery...

Last edited by Detrimentalman; September 28th, 2010 at 01:21 AM. Reason: Fix quote
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  #56  
Old September 27th, 2010, 11:03 PM
Detrimentalman Detrimentalman is offline
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Re: SoCal Slaughter! 2010 attendance/prizes plus

fixed

I am missing various figures, probably borrowed and never returned. My initials SMT are on the underside of the base on all of my figures, thanks in advance for returning them upon discovery...

Last edited by Detrimentalman; September 28th, 2010 at 01:21 AM.
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  #57  
Old September 28th, 2010, 03:05 AM
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Leotheanimal87 Leotheanimal87 is offline
 
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Re: SoCal Slaughter! 2010 attendance/prizes plus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Detrimentalman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leotheanimal87 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by hivelord View Post
Actually, the ruling is that you can attack you own figures. Which can be useful for instance when getting rid of a unit afflicted with lycanthropy or boosting Krug's attack. This was brought up most thoroughly in discussion of the Deathreavers and scatter. Since you can attack your own figures an errata was required to not allow a scatter when a rat attacks a teammate.

Quote:
SCATTER: After a Deathreaver you control rolls defense dice against a normal attack from an opponent’s figure, you may move any 2 Deathreavers you control up to 4 spaces each. (Hasbro FAQ)
The bold portion implies that you may attack your own figures.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the heads up guys. I just want to know, is there any special tournament rules I should know about? Detrimentalman was telling me in the event I went to that there was this rule that if a character is flying, it has to look forward or something. Any other rules like that? It will be my first time playing in serious tournament so I don't want to look like a noob lol

What I said was that there was some kind of rule for double spaced figures and I couldn't remember what it was, but that it didnt matter since you had none. I knew it was something about how they landed. The rule that I couldn't recall correctly is that a double spaced figured would count the landing space as two whether they were landing on one or two slippery/heavy terrain. In other words you wouldn't count the landing as 4 only 3, one for flight and 2 for the one front space (which is where I got confused about the front).


I think it is very clear logically that you may attack your own army based on the rules (which don't expressly forbid it and further by the language on the cards). If you are not able to attack your own troops the errata would not be necessary for the rats and other figures that distinguish an opponent's attack from your own when defending. This is the exact argument I made to you the other day wnfb.

1. If you can not attack your own troops then the only attacks would be from opponents.
2. Certain abilities stipulate that the attack must be made by an opponent in order to use them.
3. If you can not attack your own troops then there is no reason to clarify if the attack is from an opponents figure or not.

Therefore, you may attack your own figures.
Ah ic thanks. Had trouble remembering exactly what you said my bad
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  #58  
Old September 28th, 2010, 04:15 PM
warriorneedsfoodbadly warriorneedsfoodbadly is offline
 
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Re: SoCal Slaughter! 2010 attendance/prizes plus

Here is Robert's response from Wizards.com to my e-mail on targeting your own;

Support Agent)09/28/2010 10:23 AMHello Greg,

Thank you for contacting us. After doing some research on the topic of attacking friendly figures in Heroscape, we've been able to find the answer.

Because the rules as written do not specifically prohibit targeting friendly units with an attack, you are legally able to attack them. Triggers, like the Deathreavers you mentioned, may have restrictions that prevent them from happening during harm caused by friendly figures. There are also specific figures that may prevent them from attacking friendly figures (like the MacDirk Warriors "Highland Fury" ability).

It is also important to note that you cannot have a figure attack itself.

I can understand the written rules are a bit confusing, but these are the accepted rules that were used at GenCon this year.

I will definitely forward this issue to the appropriate department for possible inclusion in future versions of the FAQ for the game.

I hope this helps to clear things up.

Take Care!
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  #59  
Old September 28th, 2010, 04:36 PM
warriorneedsfoodbadly warriorneedsfoodbadly is offline
 
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Re: SoCal Slaughter! 2010 attendance/prizes plus

Anyone know of a good map that employs the new DnD pieces?
Anyone have an 'in' to hit up companies to donate to the prize table?
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  #60  
Old September 28th, 2010, 07:35 PM
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Re: SoCal Slaughter! 2010 attendance/prizes plus

Is WotC providing some support? With donations from players we had lots last couple times.

Are we having trophies again this year? I have suggestions if we do.

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