100% Theoryscape

[loborocket]

I agree with Ollie's position as well.

I also don't like seeing all of the talk about what units are competitive in tournaments etc... I suppose it is an inevitible end as more players are going to more tournaments. I really think all of the talk about what is competitive or not drives specific selections for tournaments. I really try to bring different stuff to tournaments to see what I can do with it. If you start seeing the same "competitive" builds over and over it will become far too boring. It is weird how now (compared to when I started attending tournaments) I see more of the same builds over and over but we have more units to sellct from than ever before.

My ideas are easily challenged however since I tend to lose more than I win at tournaments.

[Toad Rocket]

One thing we really do not need is another hero-killer type unit. We seem to have plenty of those. We could use more effective squad killer units (though this seems to cause a large outcry and belly aching eg when zelrig first came out).

[Mr Migraine]

Originally Posted by Toad Rocket

One thing we really do not need is another hero-killer type unit. We seem to have plenty of those. We could use more effective squad killer units (though this seems to cause a large outcry and belly aching eg when zelrig first came out).

Not to mention we began to nerf maps after Zelrig was released. "Oh no! Zelrig can get here and attack in one turn!"

[Devil's Advocate]

Maps should pretty much always be able to prevent an order marker 1 start zone attack by Zelrig even if he isn't played. Even before Zelrig was released I made sure maps were atleast 22 or so spaces long

[Kinseth]

Turn 1 Zerlig blasting you is rather scary! Though each board gives different units an advantage, I am not sure a board needs to "Zelrig" proof a map. Heck at Saratoga Slugfest, with 24 players, there was only one Zelrig.

[Mr Migraine]

Originally Posted by Kinseth

Turn 1 Zerlig blasting you is rather scary! Though each board gives different units an advantage, I am not sure a board needs to "Zelrig" proof a map. Heck at Saratoga Slugfest, with 24 players, there was only one Zelrig.

It's just like the paranoia of water on height (for Microcorp), or elevations near start zones (for AE). People go through way too much stress [specific unit]-proofing than what it's worth.

[Sarpedon]

Hello, everyone.

Fellow member Kroc recently began a great thread in another forum titled: "The Myth of Skulls". In it, he discusses how little chance of success average attacks have of succeeding aginst average defense rolls relative to what many expect/suppose. I won't rehash it by going into detail, but the crux of his argument was that, in order to be likely to succeed, an attack must be far greater (even given the 3:2 ratio of the dice) than the defense it targets.

His thread led me to ponder the actual cost of (competitive) attacks compared to the potential benefits. Of course, one must attack to win, but, are there times when it is best not to attack or even to let the opponent attack first. Could it be that this is far more often the case than we would think? I've created a checklist to show what an attacker might be giving up (when he moves) in order to carry out the attack. Please feel free to suggest others I may have missed.

* If you descend from an elevation, you give up +1 defense and +1 attack.
* You may have to give up a valuable glyph upon which your hero currently stands.
* By moving closer, you giftwrap targets for your opponent's (ranged) units on his turn.
* In the case of the 4th Mass, etc., you give up wait-then-fire.
* You may get out of Raelin/Taelord's, etc., aura.
* In the case of other units (Romans, Knights, Orcs etc.), attacking may isolate units, making them weaker.

These are all serious drawbacks! Even one of them is cause for concern, let alone two or three. I would like to hear from competitive tournament players regarding this. How often do you win games more because your opponent hands it to you on a silver platter (by attacking at the wrong time) than because you outmaneouvered him tactically? In my experience, I know I've won quite a few because my opponent didn't know the meaning of "drawn position".

[White Noise]

Sarpedon,
Here's a situation where attacking could put a player at a disadvantage, but it doesn't necessarily require movement:

Mohican River Tribe- If two squad members are engaged, attacking could kill the figures they are engaged to and cause you to lose their bonding (not to mention the extra dice from being engaged)

[IAmBatman]

Counter Strike or Evil Eye Defense are good motivations not to attack sometimes.

[Sarpedon]

Good points, White Noise and IAmBatman.

I was considering what the attacker gave up rather than disincentives, but valid nonetheless.

[mccombju]

I think some (more like most or all) good players use the concept of luring, drawing in, and forcing an opponent to attack from a disadvantageous position as a major component of their regular strategy.

When luring an opponent, either you can rely on patience (yours, not theirs!) and the strength of your position, such as in the case of the 4th Mass line, or you will make use of one of the following fundamental principles for dictating the battle's location (and, therefore, its outcome!).

Fundamental principles of dictating battleground location:

1. Commanding superior range.
2. Commanding superior mobility.
3. The ability to control glyphs (in conjunction with balanced map design).
4. Employing special attacks which penalize specific troop formations.
5. Employing anti-ranged defensive powers.
6. Employing regeneration special powers.
7. Commanding raw defensive and/or offensive power.

Consider the 4th Mass army. This army seems like it is most powerful when it can claim an advantageous position (i.e. height, glyphs, etc.) and collect the bulk of its forces to this area. Once assembled, the 4th Mass player can simply wait for the opponent's advance (then fire...). I've heard players utter that they "should have gone into the match with a game plan, as opposed to feeding the opposing 4th Mass player their own ranged figures and rats". Once the 4th Mass gets set up in this manner, it can be difficult to draw them out or overpower them.

The Heroscape game mechanics confer significant advantages to entrenched positions (also known as "turtling"). Given the opportunity, collecting the bulk of your forces on height and waiting seems like the most prudent choice considering the statistical advantage of +1A/+1D this confers in addition to the tactical advantage (i.e. Order Marker simplification through having all of your figures, especially your Common Squads, within threat range upon their activation; the likelihood of Raelin being included in the army to boost the tightly clustered and entrenched units).

How can one either prevent this from happening or, alternatively, dictate the flow of the game once this situation has occurred? What follows is an examination of the fundamental principles of dictating battleground location.

1. Commanding superior range.

The ability to outrange an opponent means that you can force them to move in order to attack you. Obviously, Line of Sight (LOS) has a significant bearing on the effectiveness of outranging an opponent as a means to disloding an entrenched position. As such, the ability to effectively fortify a position can depend on the LOS blockers that surround such terrain. In the event that there are abundant LOS blockers, the Range statistic required to effectively hold this position will decrease (e.g. With heavy LOS blockers, Range 5 will suffice; With no LOS blockers, Range 9-10 may be needed...).

One of the most powerful, metagame-dominant armies is the Vydar ranged pod, which features Laglor, the Krav Maga Agents, and Major Q9, among others as point totals allow. Part of the reason for this army's success lies in its ability to dictate battleground location through superior range and through the aforementioned dominance of entrenched positions in the Heroscape game mechanics.

Featured Units:
Laglor (Vydar Range Enhancement +2)
Syvarris (Range 9)

Points 1 (Range) and 2 (Movement) combine to form the concept of Threat Range. Threat Range influences who gets first strike and the ability to launch counter-offensives.

2. Commanding superior mobility.

Commanding superior mobility as a means to dictating battleground location has less to do with the ability to dislodge an entrenched position and more to do with prevention of that fortification from being established in the first place. By moving faster or by moving more effectively over certain types of terrain, you can mobilize your army to claim height advantage for yourself or to deny your opponent this opportunity through attrition and/or through tying his/her figures down in engagement.

In this instance, Threat Range is important for achieving first strike and thereby tilting the odds in your favour as this preliminary skirmish unfolds.

Examples:
High movement
Flying
Slither (when water is a dominant terrain feature of the map)
Glacier Traverse (when Heavy Snow and/or Ice are dominant features of the map)
Disengage
Gaining access to Road Tiles

Counter-Examples:
Low movement
Double-hex status
Insufficient figure height for climbing (may be offset by Climb x2 or Climb x3)
Moving over Heavy snow
Moving over Ice
Moving through Water (unless Double-Hex)
Moving over Uneven terrain

3. The ability to control glyphs (in conjunction with balanced map design).

Presumably, glyphs were built into the Heroscape game system to give players an incentive to be aggressive and move to attack the enemy. The map design is flawed and the glyph pool fails when the benefits of an easily obtained entrenched position outweigh the benefits of holding the glyphs and using them to press an advantage on the attack.

Instances of unbalanced map design:
Rivers without crossing points within range from an elevated position
Elevated start zones (relative maximum height)
Large area of elevated terrain easily accessible from the start zone (relative maximum height)
Poor or no LOS blockers
Elevated glyph positions
Protected glyph positions
Elevations near a start-zone that are inaccessible on foot
Elevations inaccessible on foot
Long avenues of Road Tiles on elevation
Significant concentrations of uneven terrain impassable to Double-Hex figures
Two areas of elevation (that is difficult to scale on foot) at a distance of fewer than 6 Hexes from each other

4. Employing special attacks which penalize specific troop formations.

The obvious downside of a turtling strategy is that it is predictable. This allows the opponent to dictate the pace of game play. Furthermore, the turtling player surrenders the advantage of striking first in exchange for the benefit of a stronger and more sustained counter-attack.

Employing certain types of special attacks, as outlined below, can either inflict massive casualties on the defending turtling player or the threat of such attacks will cause the turtling player to alter their behaviour in anticipation. This can help the offensive player to dictate the battleground location. Subsequently, the turtling player's counter-attacking efficiency will decrease.

Limited Adjacency:
Wild Swing (Jotun)
Tetsubo (Gurei-Oni)
Melee squad attacks

Ranged Explosion:
Explosion (Deathwalker 9000)
Fire Line (Mimring)
Shotgun Blast (James Murphy; Johnny "Shotgun" Sullivan)
Majestic Fires (Zelrig)
Grenade (Airborne Elite)
Rain of Flame (Jorhdawn)

Limited LOS:
Helm of Mitonsoul Aura (Runa)

Unlimited Adjacency:
Marro Plague (Marrden Hounds)
Toxic Skin (Kee-Mo-Shi)
Circuitry Overload (Omnicron Repulsors)
Master's Assault (Master Win Chiu Woo)
Whirldwind Assault (Raelin SotM)
Shoalin Assault (Shaolin Monks)
Self-Destruct 4 (Deathwalker 7000)

Successive Melee Targets (Limited):
Trample Stomp (Tor-Kul-Na)
Blood Hungry (Brunak)
Ninjitsu Barrage (Kumiko)

Successive Melee Targets (Unlimited i.e. Can target the same figure multiple times):
Double Attack (Krug; Einar Imperium; etc.)
Frenzy (Venoc Vipers; Elite Onyx Vipers)
Overextend (Eldgrim; Alastair MacDirk)
Saber Storm (Moriko)

Successive Ranged Targets (Limited):
Rapid Fire (Deathwalker 8000)
Poisonous Acid Breath (Braxas)
Ice Shard (Nilfheim)

Successive Ranged Targets (Unlimited i.e. Can target the same figure multiple times):
Queglix Gun (Major Q9)
Machine Pistol (Major Q10)
Wrist Rocket (Major Q10)
Quick Release (Kaemon Awa)
Autoload (Laglor)
Frenzy (Aubrien Archers)
Double Attack (Syvarris)
Ranged squad attacks

5. Employing anti-ranged defensive special powers.

Anti-ranged defensive special powers are one of the most compelling ways to lure an opponent into engagement. The most popular (and, perhaps, the most effecitve) strategy is to use the Krav Maga Agents as bait and distraction for a powerful counter-attack of your own.

vs. Normal and Special Attacks:
Stealth Dodge (Krav; Agent Skahen; Deathwalker 7000)
Stealth Armour 15 (Microcorp Agents)
Concealment 10 (Brave Arrow)
Concealment 19 (Mohican River Tribe)
Evasive 8 (Elite Onyx Vipers)
Leaf of the Home Tree Aura (Acorlah)
~Defensive Aura (Raelin)
~Extended Defensive Aura (Raelin SotM)
~Gift of the Empress Aura (Empress Kiova)
EMP Response [vs. Soulborgs] (Omnicron Repulsors)
Vanish 9 (Isamu)

vs. Normal Attacks:
Smoke Powder (Nakita Agents + whatever adjacent unit(s) they are shielding)
Evil Eye Defense (Gurei-Oni)
Disappearing Ninja 12 (NotNW)
Thorian Speed (Sgt. Drake Alexander SotM; Sgt. Drake Alexander RotV)
Glacier Camouflage (Dzu-Teh)

6. Employing regeneration special powers.

Just as anti-ranged defensive special powers can allow you to dictate the battleground location, so too can figures with special regenerative powers. Normally, a turtling opponent could afford to surrender the initiative (of the game, not who goes first round) to the attacking player, because the turtling player is relying on a superior offensive and defensive position to ensure that the opponent's rate of attrition is worse than his/her own.

Regeration abilities, particularly activation-based regeneration abilities, shatter the very foundation of the turtling strategy. No longer can the entrenched player allow the player with regenerating units to dictate the pace of play. The entrenched player must branch out, either on an assassination mission or he/she must launch a sustained assault and abandon his/her fortifications in favour of eliminating the regenerating threat. At this point, the player with the regenerating units now has the luxury of deciding where the battle will take place.

Activation-based Regeneration:
Dragon Heal (Sonlen)
Healing Touch (Kelda)
Water Clone (Marro Warriors)
Marro Rebirth (Marro Hive)

Conditional Regeneration:
Life Drain (Cyprien Esenwein; Sonya Esenwein; Marcu; Iskra Esenwein)
Zombies Rise Again (Zombies of Morindan)
Cell Divide (Marro Dividers)

7. Commanding raw defensive and/or offensive power.

When you can command raw defensive power (survivability) and/or offensive power, the location of the battle begins to have a less significant bearing on the outcome of the battle. Think Minions of Utgar or Major Q9 (and maybe even the Gladiatrons/Blastatrons, assuming a balanced map).

Obviously, one never surrenders a statistical advantage when they could just as easily claim it. However, sometimes the raw power of the figures you are using will outweigh the advantages available to the defending player patiently waiting in an entrenched position.

An unbalanced or poorly designed map can skew these results, as previously discussed. Assuming the map is well-designed, then it is fair to say that sometimes raw power wins over a carefully conceived but predictable strategy with inferior offensive and/or defensive power.

[Mr Migraine]

I'm glad WotC doesn't combine more than two or three of those in one unit.