The Book of Kato Katsuro

[Ogden of Valhalla]

I strongly disagree with Kato's point cost and the lack of counter strike. He is the mightiest samuri for scape's sake!

(angry face)

[The B.I.V.]

Have you played with him? He's quite powerful and worth his points. Counterstrike would make him a little OP...

[Ogden of Valhalla]

I have played him tons of times, but i tend to build maps with 1200+ pieces at a time with high terrain and it breaks his view with his army making him a 200 point paper weight. I guess if i played scenario maps it would make a little more sense. Regardless counter NOT on a samurai ? Sounds silly to me.

[betawolf36]

Originally Posted by Ogden of Valhalla

I have played him tons of times, but i tend to build maps with 1200+ pieces at a time with high terrain and it breaks his view with his army making him a 200 point paper weight. I guess if i played scenario maps it would make a little more sense. Regardless counter NOT on a samurai ? Sounds silly to me.

He's not a Samurai, though...
He's a Daimyo, a Japanese Lord.(Googled info.)

[Overlord Hikash]

Yep, a Daimyo was a provincial lord of Feudal Japan. I've fiddled around with making customs for some of the more well-known Daimyo. Hojo, Oda, Takeda, etc.

Much like Ogden, I tend to play larger maps, with bigger (1200+ points) games. On the right map, Kato's Line of Sight can reach great distances, allowing him to constantly activate 8 figures. On other maps, heavy with hills and trees, though, one needs to be very particular about his placement.

Personally, I think he's pointed just right. He allows a great amount of flexibility for Asian-themed armies

[The B.I.V.]

Originally Posted by Ogden of Valhalla

I have played him tons of times, but i tend to build maps with 1200+ pieces at a time with high terrain and it breaks his view with his army making him a 200 point paper weight. I guess if i played scenario maps it would make a little more sense. Regardless counter NOT on a samurai ? Sounds silly to me.

I know what you're thinking. He's the leader so he should be one notch above every other Samurai. But think of him more as a General, a tactician. His value doesn't come from his combat value but the value of his tactics and his ability to use the forces at his disposal. In reality, maybe a Daimyo would be better than a regular Samurai, but this is a game. He is a game piece with a specific purpose which is to enhance the other game pieces in your army.

Adding counterstrike would up is cost considerably without adding much value. 200 is already pretty pricey and you should be able to keep him safe without too much trouble. Even if he had counterstrike, I wouldn't want anyone to get near him. And if that's the case, why would you want an ability that he likely won't need to use?

[Hogg]

It sounds like you're playing him on the wrong type of map. All the double spaced figures suck, too, if you play them on a map without two adjacent hexes.

[Ogden of Valhalla]

Originally Posted by The B.I.V.

I know what you're thinking. He's the leader so he should be one notch above every other Samurai. But think of him more as a General, a tactician. His value doesn't come from his combat value but the value of his tactics and his ability to use the forces at his disposal. In reality, maybe a Daimyo would be better than a regular Samurai, but this is a game. He is a game piece with a specific purpose which is to enhance the other game pieces in your army.

Adding counterstrike would up is cost considerably without adding much value. 200 is already pretty pricey and you should be able to keep him safe without too much trouble. Even if he had counterstrike, I wouldn't want anyone to get near him. And if that's the case, why would you want an ability that he likely won't need to use?

But he doesn't enhance them, he just makes it more difficult for your opponent(s) to figure out your next move

And how couldn't he use it? its first line of offense. hence counter strike.

I see your points but take Charos for example, he is a beast partly cause of CS and is 210 because of CS. Kato is no Spartacus, i'm just sayin'. he is very usefull as is, i guess i just don't like him. haha.

[The B.I.V.]

Originally Posted by The B.I.V.

I know what you're thinking. He's the leader so he should be one notch above every other Samurai. But think of him more as a General, a tactician. His value doesn't come from his combat value but the value of his tactics and his ability to use the forces at his disposal. In reality, maybe a Daimyo would be better than a regular Samurai, but this is a game. He is a game piece with a specific purpose which is to enhance the other game pieces in your army.

Adding counterstrike would up is cost considerably without adding much value. 200 is already pretty pricey and you should be able to keep him safe without too much trouble. Even if he had counterstrike, I wouldn't want anyone to get near him. And if that's the case, why would you want an ability that he likely won't need to use?

Originally Posted by Ogden of Valhalla

But he doesn't enhance them, he just makes it more difficult for your opponent(s) to figure out your next move

He does a lot more than that. He allows you to move and attack with 8 ashigaru figures on a single order marker! That's a pretty nice enhancement.

Originally Posted by Ogden of Valhalla

And how couldn't he use it? its first line of offense. hence counter strike.

Well, I'd say it's defensive, rather than offensive. Regardless, my point was that you would never want Kato in a position to use Counterstrike in the first place. You should keep him away from any action as long as possible. If played right, your opponent should never get any units adjacent to Kato because they get killed by Samurai and Ashigaru before they get to him. If you have enemy units adjacent to Kato, chances are you're pretty close to losing the game and Counterstrike is probably not going to help you at that point.

Originally Posted by Ogden of Valhalla

I see your points but take Charos for example, he is a beast partly cause of CS and is 210 because of CS. Kato is no Spartacus, i'm just sayin'. he is very usefull as is, i guess i just don't like him. haha.

Kato is very much a Spartacus, maybe even moreso than Spartacus himself. Play a Kato/Ashigaru army vs. a Spartacus Glad army and you'll see what I mean. Sounds like you'd rather he be a Charos, than a Spartacus, but he's not. Making him a hybrid of the two would just make him needlessly more expensive without providing any real value.

[Arch-vile]

Kato IS overcosted if you are using him as Order Marker efficiency for the Samurai. Kato's true value comes with taking Ashigaru with him. With Kato, you can have 8 attacks from 8 different figures. That is huge offensives output. In larger point games, adding Samurai to give Kato some other options is a good idea. Kaemon Awa is a great hero and the Kozuke Samurai are fantastic hero assassins.

Kato should never be in the front lines. He should be behind his swarm of Ashigaru Pikemen. The Pikemen tie up the opponent's units, like rats do. If Kato is being attacked, you likely need to move him back or bring up some reinforcements for him, becuase if Kato falls, your whole army falls. Counter Strike wouldn't save him once the enemy gets to him; by then, you have likely already lost.

Kato is played different than Spartacus. Sparty needs to be in the front lines when Crixus falls so the glads get that essential 4th attack. Kato doesn't offer any such benefit, and therefore should be guarded at all costs.

[Ogden of Valhalla]

very valid points. i will put them use and hopefully he works out.

thanks

[Fireshadow]

there is a typo in the bio at the end of it it is hi s instead of his