The C3G Book of Red Skull

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Should I open it up to eight o'clock? The problem is the Sun is extremely bright here and unless its noon-2pm, I seem to get a glare on figures.

[Griffin]

So the sun's rays should be directly hitting the figure from the side correct?

[A3n]

Originally Posted by Spidey'tilIDie

Should I open it up to eight o'clock? The problem is the Sun is extremely bright here and unless its noon-2pm, I seem to get a glare on figures.

Yes you need to open it up at the 8 o'clock side. You probably need to be behind some glass (like a window) if it is too bright. This will diffuse it a bit. If it's still too bright or you can't position it near a window you might need to make a wall out of something like tulle to filter the light a bit.

Cheers

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Seems to be brighter in the afternoon, so I'll just take my pictures in the morning. Or at least try. Like Griff, I am a nightowl.

[Good Pig]

Any new pictures for Red Skull yet? I'm working on some cards today so I thought I'd ask.

[Good Pig]

I fixed up the comic version of the card. I also made A3n's suggested updates to the mini card and adjusted the Curves on to help out with the flatness some. If it isn't enough, we'll need a new photo.

[IAmBatman]

Looks great to me!

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Great test here by Margloth! It raises a question though for me: does an auto-wound still remove the glyph from posession? If I am not mistaken, the rules read when an opponent wounds you they place the glyph. If you take an auto-wound do you place the glyph yourself? Do you choose an opponent to place it? Do you even lose it if you weren't attacked? I kinda like the idea of an auto-wound but not losing it, seems really fun and he seemed to think so too!

Originally Posted by Margloth

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT RED SKULL and COSMIC CUBE

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
Pass

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
Pass

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
Pass

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
Pass

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
Pass, but does Master Motivator need to specify that Red Skull is not affected? Currently nothing specifically says he can't.

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
Pass

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
Pass

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
Pass

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
Pass

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
Pass
_____________________________________________________________
Army Test- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes- What should be the unit's point value? 220
- Give a brief summary.I thought this would be a blowout for Red's team... but in the end the Vigilantes didn't lose a single figure! They owed this victory entirely to gaining the Cosmic Cube. Ultimately the Cube feels very powerful... as it should... but I'm worried it might be too powerful? If Red's team had owned, I would have felt it was broken. However, given that they brought the advantage to the table and still got absolutley smoked... well, it's scary but absolutely perfect at the same time.
Map: X Marks the Spot (no Team Up Glyph)
Units: Team What's Black and Green and Red All Over: Red Skull, Black Canary, Green Arrow (Ollie), Hydra Agents x3 (800)
vs.
Vigilantes: Batman (Bruce), Robin, Punisher, Huntress, Echo (800)

Spoiler Alert!

Round 1:
Initiative: Team Red (TR).
TR OM 1 moves up a squad of Hydra, then Red Skull, who uses the Cosmic Cube (CC) to displace Green Arrow 3 spaces toward one of the buildings. Red Skull then attacks and kills a Hydra Agent to get a turn with Ollie. Ollie tries a longshot at Punisher, but ultimately misses, even with a defense reduction. Team Vigilante (TV) OM 1 sees Punisher move forward, who manages 3 wounds on Ollie. Robin also moves up, but can't finish Ollie with a Batarang. TR OM 2 sees the Hydra agents moving in toward Punisher and Robin, and they put 2 wounds on Robin. Red moves forward, uses the Cube to put one of Ollie's wounds on Punisher, kills a Hydra to allow Ollie a potshot at Punisher. Castle takes 1 wound. TV OM2 sees Punisher finish off Ollie, and Robin whiff an attack on Red. TR OM 3 sees Hydras move up, 3 within range of Robin, and one locking Punisher in engagement. Hydras all miss. Red Skull sends a wound from Robin( 1; 2-1) to Punisher, but doesn't get a wound on Robin. TV OM3 sees Punisher kill off the Hydra engaging him, but missing 2 shots on Red. Robin, however, gets 2 on Red, putting the Cube out in the open.
Round 2:
Initiative: Team Vigilante.
TV OM 1 is on Punisher, who moves forward and grabs a the Cube, then puts himself on top of a building with it (3 wounds; 2+1 for glyph). He opens up with his machine gun: 5 skulls on the first roll finishes Red. Astonishingly, however, he must've used all his ammo in the first burst, because he whiffs against 2 Hydras. TR OM 1 is on Hydras, who flub all their rolls. TV OM 2 is on Punisher again, who uses the cube to heal himself (3 wounds: 3-1+1) and kill a Hydra, and kills another with machine gun fire. Robin batarangs a Hydra. TR OM 2 is again on Hydra, who manage 2 wounds on Robin (3 wounds). TV OM 3 is on Huntress, who honestly can't do anything, but allows Robin to batgrapple on top of a warehouse ruin, and batarang a Hydra. TR OM 3 is on Hydra, who miss 4 shots at Robin.
Round 3:
Initiative: Team Vigilante.
TV OM 1 sees Punisher remove a wound (3: 3-1+1) and place it on Black Canary. He then machine guns her for 1 wound. Robin batarangs a Hydra. TR OM 1 is on Black Canary, who rolls poorly on a Canary Cry, getting no wounds in. Punisher removes another wound (3w:3-1+1), and since he can't see Dinah, finishes a Hydra soldier. He then mops up the remaining Hydras. Robin rolls an all skulls Batarang and finishes Dinah.

_____________________________________________________________
Army Test- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes- What should be the unit's point value? 220- Give a brief summary.This game was fun. Super fun. The most fun I've ever had in a game of Heroscape. The Cosmic Cube is killer... but lose control of it and the tables turn quickly. I like that Red Skull is ideally suited to use the Cube... but perfectly horrible for catching it once it's gone (low mobility and not terribly sturdy). As I was playing it, I couldn't help but wonder how Shadow Thief would play with Red... both as an ally and as an enemy. It's easy to say the Cube could be broken, but I don't think it is, since it more often than not breaks the game against you. I also at first thought that using Red to kill off Hydras to get the free turn was a little broken, but given that you are losing a big attack, and a unit, and that it seems thematic, I think it makes an interesting strategic choice. Map: X Marks the Spot (no Team Up Glyph)
Units: Red... America?: Red Skull, Captain America (Official), Hydras x2 (600)
vs
World's Finest: Superman, Batman (600)

Spoiler Alert!

Round 1:
Initiative: Team Supes (TS)
TS OM 1 sees Supes head into the fray. Team Red (TR) OM 1 sees Hydras move forward and (predictably) totally flub getting anything on Supes. Red Skull moves forward, moves an OM from Supes to Bats, and tries to Luger shots at Supes. He gets 1 wound on Supes. TS OM 2 is now on Bats, who makes a run for a warehouse. TR OM 2 is on Hydras, who swarm Supes but can't hit him. Red moves an OM to Bats, and whiffs 2 Lugers on Supes. TS OM 3 is now on Bats, who grapples to the top of a warehouse. TR OM 3 is on Hydras, who whiff on Supes. Red beams a Hydra adjacent to himself and kills it, allowing Cap to move up. Cap busts 2 wounds on Supes with a shield bash.
Round 2:
Initiative: Team Supes.
TS OM1 sees Supes bash a Hydra's head in. TR OM 1 sees Hydras all miss Supes again. Red beams Cap in adjacent to Supes, then whacks a Hydra to let Cap do his thing. Cap misses Supes with a Shield throw. Supes gets Cap for 1 wound. TR OM 2 is on Hydra, who whiff on Supes, even with Tactician. Red puts Cap's wound on Supes, and then double Lugers him, getting 1 wound and bringing him to 5. Supes slams a Hydra, realizing putting wounds on Cap means an auto wound on himself due to the Cosmic Cube. TR OM 3 is on Hydra, who can't get a wound on Supes. Red puts a Hydra adjacent to Supes, and double Lugers him, finishing the Man of Steel.
Round 3: Initiative Team Red.
TR OM 1 is on Hydra, who turtle around Cap and use his Tactical bonus (and 7 range) to put a wound on Bats. Red moves up, uses the Cube to move Cap forward, and kills a Hydra to allow Cap to toss his shield at Bats. Bats doesn't get his evasive strike but dodges easily. Bats batarangs Red, sending the Cosmic Cube flying, then batarangs a Hydra, and Cap for 2 (It should be noted that Bats threw 3-3 skull Batarangs here!) TR OM 2 has hydras making Tactical potshots again (misses), and Red running for the Cube (he doesn't quite make it). Bats flubs a Batarang on Cap, and has no other targets. TR OM3 has Hydra pot shots again, getting 1 on Bats. Red gets the glyph, moves adjacent to a Hyrda, moves a wound from Cap to Bats, and kills the Hydra to let Cap toss his shield, which Bats ducks. Bats changes up his position an Batarangs the last remaining Hydras.
Round 4: Initiative Team Bats.
Seeing the writing on the wall (since he has 3 wounds and Red has the Cube), Bats grapples down off his perch and throws 2 Batarangs, hoping to displace the Cube. Again he rolls a 3 skull batarang, putting 1 wound on Red, and sending the skull flying!, but he whiffs his 'rang against Cap. Red abandons his quest for the Cube (since Bats is almost gone and it now teeters on the top of a warehouse ruin), and charges at Bats, attacking from a height disadvantage but taking advantage of Tactician. A massive 5 skull attack... Bats whiffs the Evasive roll... can his 6 defense dice (height advantage) save him?
HOLY. $#!@. He rolls 5 shields. Bats sees an opportunity now... he's about the only one who can grab the Cube. He bat grapples out of engagement and onto the street, and catches Red with a 2 skull Batarang that Red whiffs on (even with Tactician!) Then Cap whiffs on his Batarang! The game is now 3 wounds on all units... with Bats 6 spaces from the Cube (not counting height). Red races after Bats and cuts him off from height advantage... 4 skulls. Bats whiffs evasive... and his defensive roll. Game Over.

All in all, this was a unit I didn't think much of when I saw the write up, but was very impressed with when playing. I feel like I haven't begun to scratch the surface of the strategy that was available to him. Really the only stipulation I have for him is that Master Motivator should maybe say, "Red Skull is not affected by Master Manipulator", since technically, if he can see himself (which I think he could), he could continue to take turns if he inflicts a wound. I don't think this was your intention, as it could lead to some long, looping turns, but given the perfect set-up your opponent would have to give you, I think it would be acceptable.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Karat's new playtest.

Originally Posted by Karat

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Red Skull

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
Pass

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
Pass

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
Pass

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
Pass

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
Pass

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
Pass

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
Pass

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
Pass
- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
Pass

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
Pass

_____________________________________________________________

Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? He feels extremely balanced at 220.
- Give a brief summary. .Red Skull was very helpfull in this army. He was the most influential figure. He really gave the Fan 4 a run for their money.
Map: Turret Rocks
Units: Red Skull, 4xHydra Agents, Elektra, Solomon Grundy(1000) Vs. Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Woman, Thing, Human Torch(1000)

Spoiler Alert!

Round 1
In turn 1 Fantastic activated Thing and Torch who advanced and Fantastic advanced, and the Hydra advanced and activated Red Skull who advanced and advanced Grundy with the Cosmic Cube. In turn 2 Fantastic activated Invisible Woman who advanced and Fantastic Stretch Walked to height, and Grundy advanced. In turn 3 Fantastic Stretch Walked to height on Grundy giving him 1 wound, and the Hydra advanced and activated Red Skull who advanced using the Cosmic Cube to heal grundy and give Fantastic 1 wound.
Round 2
In turn 1 Grundy gave Fantastic 2 wounds, and Fantastic activated Thing who engaged Grundy. In turn 2 the Hydra advanced and activated Red Skull who engaged Fantastic and Moved Fantastic giving himself height with the Cosmic Cube and took him out with his normal attack activating Grundy and Thing blocked Grundy's attack with Rockwall Defense giving him 1 wound, OM on Fantastic. In turn 3 the Hydra activated Red Skull who used the Cosmic Cube to heal grundy and give Torch 1 wound, OM on Fantastic.
Round 3
In turn 1 Thing gave Grundy 2 wounds, and Thing blocked Grundy's attack with Rockwall Defense giving him 1 wound. In turn 2 Torch advanced, and the Hydra gave Thing 1 wound and activated Red Skull who Healed Grundy and gave torch 1 wound with the Cosmic Cube. In turn 3 Thing took out Grundy, and the Hydra activated Red Skull who engaged Thing and used the Cosmic Cube to heal thing and Give Torch 1 wound and Red Skull gave Thing 2 wounds with his Normal attack activating Elektra who advanced.
Round 4
In turn 1 the Hydra gave Thing 1 wound and activated Red Skull who used the Cosmic Cube to hel Thing and give Torch 1 wound. In turn 2 Torch gave Invisible Woman 2 wounds with Flame On and engaged 2 Hydra going Supernova and taking out 4 Hydra and giving Red Skull and Thing 3 wounds, and Grundy comes back adjacent to Red Skull and the Hydra advanced activating Red Skull who disengaged and engaged Invisible woman picking up the Cosmic Cube Healing 1 wound and giving Thing the final wound taking him out and giving Invisible 2 wounds with his normal attack and activated Grundy. In turn 3 OM on Thing, and the Hydra took out Torch and activated Red Skull who used the Cosmic Cube to heal 1 wound and give Invisible Woman her last wound taking her out.
The game went to round 4 turn 3. Invisible Woman had 4 prior wounds, Human Torch had 4, Grundy had 2, Red Skull had 2 prior to healing, Elektra had none, and there wer 12 Hydra Agents remaining.

_____________________________________________________________

Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? Red Skull feels spot on at 220.
- Give a brief summary. Red Skull once again seemed to dominate this match up.
Map: Turret Rocks
Units: Red Skull, 2xHydra Agents, Wolverine (660) Vs. Deadpool, Bob, Hal Joradan(660)

Spoiler Alert!

Round 1
In turn 1 Hal took height, and the Hydra advanced and activated Red Skull who advanced and used the Cosmic Cube to move Hal adjacent to him. Turn 2 advance. In turn 3 Hal took out 1 Hydra and the Hydra gave Hal 2 wounds and activated Red Skull who moved Hal giving himself height with the Cosmic Cube.
Round 2
In turn 1 the Hydra gave Hal 1 wound and caused him to burn a marker and activated Red skull. In turn 2 Wolverine caused Hal to Burn a marker, and Deadpool advanced giving Red Skull 2 wounds causing him to drop the Cosmic Cube. In turn 3 the Hydra engaged Deadpool and activated Red Skull who disengaged taking 1 wound and picked up the Cosmic Cube healing 1 wound and giving Hal his last wound with it, and gave Deadpool 2 wounds with his normal attack and Bob advanced giving Red Skull 1 wound with Deadpool's #1 Fan and Red Skull activated Wolverine who advanced and gave Wolverine 2 wounds and bob advanced picking up the Cosmic Cube, OM on Hal. Deadpool revealed the X to heal.
Round 3
In turn 1 the Hydra gave Bob 1 wound causing him to drop the Cosmic Cube and activated Red Skull who disengaged taking 1 wound and picking up the Cosmic Cube and healing 1 wound and giving Deadpool his final wound taking him out, and taking out Bob with Dual Luggers.
The game went to round 3 turn 1. Deadpool had 4 prior wounds, Red Skull had 3 before disengagement and healing from the disengagement, Wolverine had none, and there were 7 Hydra agents remaining.

Red Skull remains a devestating unit. The Ruthless Matermind detriment to using the Glyph didn't really come into play, but It seems kind of niche to me. Sure it would wound just about every other figure except for Red Skull who picks it up, but to be able to heal and basically stay where they were before using the Glyph afterwards while still givng an opponent's figure in clear sight a wound. That being said, i'm not sure that clause is really needed, though it could add to the game play. Regardless, Red Skull is a very interesting unit and really fills out the Hydra faction as I said before, and I look forward to his realease.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

I think we need to discuss the Master Motivator additional line but other than that, from these it looks like Red Skull is good to go but questions remain on the Cosmic Cube Glyph. I think we are good to finalize this guy, but I think I will wait until we get the Cube done, that way of any tweaks are needed we don't have to undo anything.

[Good Pig]

Going to add the cards to the OP?

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Originally Posted by Good Pig

Going to add the cards to the OP?

Eventually yes. Just got caught up in all the hulaballoo the last couple days.