Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

[Dad_Scaper]

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

The Gatekeepers appear to be somewhere between the Warforged and the Drow and I'll give them a shot.

Notably their availability is not what I would like to see for a common squad at T&T or CSI, but apparently Auggie singlehandedly bridges the gap.

Originally Posted by Auggest

Gatekeepers would likely have done much better but somoene came in and scooped up all 150+ models I had for it on hand.

Apparently the market corrected itself.

For figure availability issues I'm going to vote no to Darkmage7a's quality Gatekeepers unit. I like 'em, but the secret got out about Auggie's secret stash and they are no longer available in sufficient number for a common squad.

[robbdaman]

It blows my mind that someone would buy out all those figures. There are even cheaper stores to purchase from but whatever I guess someone decided they really needed them. Won't likely be for this custom obviously.

[Darkmage7a]

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

For figure availability issues I'm going to vote no to Darkmage7a's quality Gatekeepers unit. I like 'em, but the secret got out about Auggie's secret stash and they are no longer available in sufficient number for a common squad.

Sad but true. Due to availability issues I'm afraid these guys are never going to join the ranks of the SoV. I'd like to thank those who took what time they did for their consideration. All the same I'd like to hear feedback about any reservations the Jugdes may have had that could have worked for or against the card. Maybe this is my chance to revisit some of the criticisms that already exist.

However, perhaps this is a good time to address the related issues in the SoV. Should the SoV request that when a mini is presented, at the time of nomination xx number of the figure be readily available on the open market? Obviously Uniques are less strained than Uncommons on the open market. And commons would have the highest requirement.

I'm just throwing numbers out there but would this be acceptable?

Unique Hero ~ about a hundred or so
Uncommon Hero ~ 2x-3x that of a unique
Common figure ~ 3x-5x per figure used.

Of course these numbers should be based to reflect the number of active fans the SoV is trying to serve right? So more or less depending on the relative interest in the SoV? Or relative to the interest in customs? Maybe something else entirely? I'm not really sure. Could we offset these numbers in other ways like recommending proxie figures?

Then the other practical obstacle faced here is how does one define acceptable criteria for what is available. Online is probably the best for access purposes since almost anyone should be able to purchase items online. But some key sites like CSI and WGHQ don't list quantity available. Then there are local gaming stores that will never post an available quantity just because its small business that fluctuates constantly. Then there are inter-company transactions that we are often never aware of. It's quite possible that a retail store somewhere purchased all of Auggies minis because he was selling them at nearly half the price of Toad and Troll. There's no way to tell if they are still on the market somewhere.

Sorry I didn't mean to rant or complain. I really appreciate what the SoV is trying to do. But this is a real issue that I feel needs to be addressed. Quality playtesting will take time, the judges are real people with real lives and decisions about acceptable customs should not be made hastily. However in the interim the market for miniatures may prove to be incredibly unstable. The SoV has already witnessed the case of Priscus. I'm not opposed to swapping out one figure for another in order to save a well developed custom. In fact It might become a reasonable standard over time. I'd like to know where the SoV stands on this issue. It might help isolate the issue if there were clear criteria for "Price" and "Availability". Once again thank you for your time.

[ZBeeblebrox]

Thanks Darkmage, we already have an idea of what sort of availability there should be for a mini for SoV consideration. Availabilty usually comes into play when we decide to review or not...

In you case, it seems the volitile miniature market raised its ugly head. But keep in mind, the reason we ask for the miniature being used is to look to see if there are enogh to meet demand before getting this far in the process.

[robbdaman]

Yeah, sadly there's no way to foresee some looney buying hundreds of a miniature.

[dok]

Hey judges. As part of my ongoing efforts to monopolize all of your time, I'm nominating another of my customs. This figure is one of the only figures I've posted that has generated absolutely zero comments or buzz, but despite that, I'd like to nominate the Deepwater Warrior:



The figure is the Water Archon Shoal Reaver figure from the Lords of Madness D&D release. It's a widely available figure.

Design/Flavor/Balance notes:

Spoiler Alert!

This figure screamed common hero to me, but I wanted to make it play differently from the existing water elemental. To that end, I went for a melee figure. By giving it stealth dodge when on a water space, it has a pretty strong incentive to stay on water, even if the water is low ground, until it's time to close in for the attack (which is, in turn, aided by the water movement power).

Elemental Bonding is, of course, a variant of wyrmling bonding. While they can still be triple-activated by Kurrok, this allows these guys to play at a slightly lower level of efficiency with the benefit of not putting 120 points into the Elementalist. Also note that the elemental bonding, while limited to Aquilla and Jandar (no firestorms!), is not limited to small and medium figures. So these guys can bond with the Greater Ice Elemental, who can really use the help. (They can also bond with the hero I designed at the same time, although he's not crucial for them.) You can also activate them with Kurrok, though, so throwing them in mixed elemental armies is not so bad (and they can keep you puttering along at 2 activations per OM if Kurrok goes down).

At the end of the day, these guys are pretty expensive figures that only get two attacks per OM, so they're not really gamebreaking. But they can fit effectively into a lot of different army builds, and I think they're pretty fun.

[ZBeeblebrox]

I do not see a problem with this figure and it looks interesting enougfh to try so I vote YES to review Deepwater Warrior

[Dad_Scaper]

I vote yes to reviewing dok's Deepwater Warrior.

Originally Posted by Darkmage7a

I'm not opposed to swapping out one figure for another in order to save a well developed custom. In fact It might become a reasonable standard over time. I'd like to know where the SoV stands on this issue. It might help isolate the issue if there were clear criteria for "Price" and "Availability". Once again thank you for your time.

Interesting thought, Darkmage. It's not as far as I can recall something we've discussed, but it is certainly something that might come up if the stars align just so.

If you are suggesting it for your Gatekeepers, feel free to find a suitable substitute mini and I'll take a look at it, as I'm sure will my fellow judges.

[Lamaclown]

I vote YES to review the Deepwater Warrior for the DoK... uh, I mean the SoV

[1Mmirg]

Interesting. The lack of range or a special attack is made up with a limited bonding power, but one that taps into the GIE. I'll admit that I'm a little skeptical, but I think the unit is weak enough to not break anything. (And that the GIE is expensive enough.)

Could a bunch of these acting as a OM drop for 2-3 GIEs matter? Only a test can tell.

I vote YES to review the Deepwater Warrior.

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I also vote NO to induct the Gatekeepers, due to limited availability. As I said before, I felt like the card needed a height limit on the teleportation and I was excited about the inclusion of a squad of same-sculpt figures; nonetheless, I feel bad that a twist in the market crushed these units from getting a more complete test. Sad.

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Also on Price and Availability, we do have a rough sense. Price should match the unit and be within a rough range of what Scapers have paid for units, i.e. a cool dragon sculpt is likely to be worth more than a little common hero. On Availability, I at least am generally looking to have at the very least something like 50+ available for commons and 30+ for unique. Again the numbers are not exact, but that is pretty close to the minimum for me. (And that doesn't count Ebay--those are to fill in for others found statically, i.e. that is why my numbers are as low as they are, because I know Scapers are resourceful and will find odd sources for figures beyond the "firm" numbers we can track down as judges.)

[Killometer]

Deepwater Warrior by dok has received 4 YES votes to review (1Mmirg, Dad_Scaper, Lamaclown, ZBeeblebrox) and moves on in the process.

Gatekeepers by Darkmage7a have received 2 NO votes to induct (1Mmirg, Dad_Scaper) and are removed from the process.

[Freezie]

I know I'm not very outspoken on these boards but I couldn't help but notice that the Deepwater Warrior, the way I read it at least, can cause an unlimited amount of Deepwater Warriors to be activated in a single turn, thus being broken. If that was not a misinterpretation on my part I think it should be revised by dok and resubmitted.

I also read it that the order marker has to be on the DW in order to activate the bonding, so no extra activation if it was Kurrok's turn. Am I correct on this?