Heroscapers - The Book of Cosmic Boy

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- - The Book of Cosmic Boy (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=39416)

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Design Phase

Yea, this is a faction I had never heard of until A3n posted Timber Wolf so I've tried to kinda stay out of these threads and leave it to you guys who may actually know something about this faction.

Sorry if I'm not much help here. :shrug:

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Design Phase

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 1564882)

Maybe the answer is not to restrict it to once per round, but lessen the number of figures she can target each time somehow?

I still think that once per round is gonna be plenty useful, but, I am gonna leave her as is on that front and playtest from here. Hopefully she will appear more balanced as I play more games with her and I won't feel the need to ask A3n to change her.

So as of right now, I am proceeding with these changes:

COSMIC BOY

Magnetic Defense needs to be upped to "14 or higher".
Magnetic Defense needs to drop the "ending of the figure's turn".

BRAINIAC 5 and SHIELD BELT

Keep the glyph as is and give Brainiac a power that does just a few things: start the game with the glyph, can't lose the glyph, and the glyph can't be destroyed by any special power until Brainiac is destroyed.

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Design Phase

:up: cool. I am willing to go to once per round for Saturn Girl if the playtests as a team prove she is too much with it. It's probably more thematic that way also as she doesn't use the power in every fight in the comics. Because it tires her when she uses it, it's more of a power she uses when the fight isn't going the Legions way.

However as for game mechanics, she is a bit weak without it & her & the team need this sort of a power. I feel that the detriment should be enough out weigh the power level & that detriment also is enough to represent the theme of her using it.

But let's see another team playtest & take it from there.

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Design Phase

I'm going to let Griff fiddle around with this faction until he's happy with it and then run some tests to verify his results when the time comes. :-)

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Design Phase

Thanks guys.

I am gonna try the changes in post 98 and give her all I can and see where that takes us. I would love for it to work and be right on the money. :fingersCrossed:

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Design Phase

A3n, I went ahead and made the changes that you agreed to on the SP. It was bugging me and I wanted to playtest. I just took of the ending of the turn on the Magnetic Defense and also bumped up the D20 roll to 14.

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Design Phase

OK, I finally figured out how to play with this faction, and there needs to be one more adjustment to make it balanced.

Cosmic Boy, Saturn Girl, Brianiac 5, Superboy, and Lightning Lad.

The blues are the OM soaks and the reds are the tagalongs. \

With Cosmic Boy, you want to put just one OM on him to get constant double bonding, so it makes sense to just give him the X.

Saturn Girl can reduce attack numbers for each OM on her card, regardless of whether or not it is revealed or unrevealed. So it makes sense to give her OMs 1, 2, and 3.

Brainiac can boost D20s with OMs, but isn't all that useful when compared to double bonding or Attack reduction.
_______

OM 1, Saturn Girl and she tags Superboy along.
OM 2, Saturn Girl and she tags Cosmic Boy along.
OM 3, Saturn Girl and she tags Lightning Lad along. Leaving Brainiac to be a clean up unit if necessary. All round, you get double bonding and a -3 to enemy attacks within 5 spaces of the pod that you are easily advancing where you want them to go.

I truly and firmly believe that Saturn Girl needs to have Mental Walls only work for each "unrevealed Order Marker" on her card, not all OMs on her card. I have started and stopped my second game already, because I believe this to be the last major fix to the faction as it currently is.

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Design Phase

If you think the change is necessary to the team then OK, but this WILL effect her cost downward & she may require separate re-testing.

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Design Phase

I am sure more testing is necessary, and I am prepared for that. However, I am not as sure about her cost as you, because when she is played in this faction, she is worth a lot more than the 220 she is down for. I have a feeling that with the change, she will be closer to 220 than she is now. However, I think she may end up coming just below 200 as well. I don't know completely yet though - that is what testing is for, and I plan on helping with that a great deal.

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Design Phase

Saturn Girl feels spot on at 220 with mental walls only working on "unrevealed OMs". I wonder if other testers might have even tested her that way. Well I will continue to test still.
_____________________
These are the changes that I am continuing to test with:

COSMIC BOY (These changes can be updated on the SP)

Magnetic Defense needs to be upped to "14 or higher".
Magnetic Defense needs to drop the "ending of the figure's turn".

BRAINIAC 5 and SHIELD BELT (We need to rewrite this power on Brainy's card)

Keep the glyph as is and give Brainiac a power that does just a few things: start the game with the glyph, can't lose the glyph, and the glyph can't be destroyed by any special power until Brainiac is destroyed.

SATURN GIRL (We need to rewrite this power on Saturn Girl's card, and also make Psychic Blast read more clearly)

Mental Walls only works with "unrevealed OMs" on her card.

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Design Phase

Once these are all updated and you've got things to a point you like them at, let me know, and I'll be happy to run some additional army tests with the group.

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Design Phase

It appears you already did the SP update here ;).

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Design Phase

LOL, I did a while back after you agreed to them. It helped me as I was playtesting.

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Design Phase

I propose Cosmic Boy move to public playtesting @ 260

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Design Phase

Quote:

Originally Posted by A3n (Post 1571982)

I propose Cosmic Boy move to public playtesting @ 250

Not to be a stickler ... but isn't it our usual convention to wait until an initial playtest is completed? Or is it just hidden somewhere else? Because the one linked in the OP that I just looked at wasn't complete ....

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Design Phase

It is all done. I accidentally had a blank army test at the bottom. The test sheet is done. I did think that Bats wanted to do a team test though before it went out for testing.

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Design Phase

Also, do you like 250 or 260 better, Griff? Your army tests were where he was most updated in terms of his write up and you had both at 260 ....

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Design Phase

I'm going to try to run them as a group in an army test or two on Monday ... (though I think this should be able to count towards public playtesting). If the initial playtester likes 260, though, I'd prefer it go to playtesting at 260.

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Design Phase

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 1571997)

I totally agree. Griff is the one that added the cost to the SP so I thought that was his final landing cost. Proposal changed to 260.

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Design Phase

yea. And I'll just sign up when these go to the public.

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Design Phase

YEA to testing at 260

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Design Phase

Yea, and this passes.

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Playtesting

A3n, which mini do you want here?

http://hcrealms.com/units/cj043.jpg

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Cosmic Justice set.
Its model number and name are #043-045 / Cosmic Boy.
Its model number and name are #215 / Rokk Krinn.

http://hcrealms.com/units/ls003.jpg

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Legion of Super Heroes set.
Its model number and name are #003 / Cosmic Boy.

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Playtesting

The first one (though uglier) has the far more iconic suit, so that's my vote.

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Playtesting

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 1572356)

The first one (though uglier) has the far more iconic suit, so that's my vote.

:word:

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Playtesting

:word: though I think the figure looks great.

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Playtesting

I don't know this guy enough to have a preference here. Just make sure you let the public know what we decided.

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Playtesting

Yeah, as I recall it's decent looking in hand. It's very foreheady (five head!) in that picture, though.

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Playtesting

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT (COSMIC BOY)

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
PASS

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
PASS

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
PASS

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
PASS

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
PASS

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
PASS

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
PASS

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
PASS

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
PASS

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
PASS
_____________________________________________________________

Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 260 felt balanced, but he was mostly a damage soak and granted extra turns early.
- Give a brief overview. Even with some great counters to Cosmic Boy and Saturn Girl in the X-Men army and some solid dice luck to start out with, this came down to two life in a gritty end game.
Map: Custom
Units: Cosmic Boy (260), Saturn Girl (220), Lightning Lad (180), Brainiac 5 (130), Superboy (Kal-El) (330) (1,120) vs. Professor X (220), Angel (90), Jean Grey (180), Cyclops (190), Beast (170), Iceman (150), Pyro (120) (1,120)

Spoiler Alert!

Cosmic Boy and Saturn Girl’s defensive powers forced the X-Men to rely on Jean Grey’s throw and Cyclop’s special attack early. With good dice luck and poor defensive rolls by the Legionnaires, they combined to take down Saturn Girl and Cosmic Boy by Round 2 (which also resulted in some Order Marker losses by their team. Those two were the first to die and only Saturn Girl had managed to wound anyone, taking out Professor X and his X-Marker. The X-Men never lost a turn because of Saturn Girl. She went out too easily and the X-Men managed to share Order Markers between Prof X and Cyclops early to avoid trouble from her.
Once the two defensive heavies were down, the X-Men turned to Lightning Lad, who managed to blast off some fully charged attacks, killing Jean Grey and putting another two wounds on Professor X. Prof X retreated and Cyclops and Beast took out Lightning Lad, who lost a turn to Negotiation.
Superboy came in next and pummeled his way through Cyclops and Beast before using his Focused Heat Vision to finish off Professor X. He then took out Angel before Pyro finally finished him off. He rolled really well for Focused Heat Vision and never needed any D20 help from Brainiac (who mostly didn’t want to take up the OMs to give it to him).
This left an end game with full life Brainiac 5 versus full life Iceman and Pyro. Brainiac 5 really gave them a run for it thanks to his Shield Belt and his intellect boosting it progressively over the course of the round. He took out Pyro before taking any wounds from Engulf and then he and Iceman battled it out for a couple more rounds before Brainiac finally fell.
Overall this army test felt very competitive and if the dice had been kinder and if an initiative switch hadn’t allowed Cyclops to finish off Saturn Girl and lose a couple of turns for the Legionnaires, I think this would have gone the other way. I wasn’t able to get that much out of Cosmic Boy and Saturn Girl here due to Cyclops being a great counter and Jean Grey being a decent counter, but I’m confident they’ll be very valuable in most match ups.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Iceman with 2 life wins Turn 2, Round 11.

_____________________________________________________________

Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 260+
- Give a brief overview. Luck turned the other way here, though Cosmic Boy was only average with his magnetic rolls. I think it might be scary if he got on a hot streak with it!
Map: Custom
Units: Timber Wolf (260), Cosmic Boy (260), Lightning Lad (180), Saturn Girl (220), Brainiac V (130) (1,050) vs. Superman (II) (450), Wonder Woman (300), Batman (200), Robin (100) (1,050)

Spoiler Alert!

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Playtesting

At least 260. I could see more as a possibility.

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Playtesting

I think the fact that he is so easily countered by ranged attacks and special powers keeps his cost from going any higher.

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Playtesting

And Saturn Girl is no help to him there - but even with those two going down early, the rest of the LEGION made that first test very close. Just saying.

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Playtesting

Oh for sure. I told you before you started that this team was fearless. For me, they really backed the X-Men down forcing them to retreat and get thrown back. I love their slowly building aggression and control.

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Playtesting

Yeah, I feel like if I had sent Superboy in first in that match to take out Cyclops or wound Prof X, I might have gotten the win.

I just wouldn't be surprised to see his cost go up 10 or 20 after some more testing ... though I'm not sure anyone in the public's tests are going to be able to really show us that unless it's Scapemage or quozl.

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Playtesting

I think Quozl would be a great pic for a team test of this magnitude. I don't mind running more tests either if the LD wants.

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Playtesting

quozl's still working on Batman II at the moment, but I'm sure he'd be up for it once he's done.

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Playtesting

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griffin (Post 1572671)

I think Quozl would be a great pic for a team test of this magnitude. I don't mind running more tests either if the LD wants.

I'm fine if you want to, or

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 1572673)

quozl's still working on Batman II at the moment, but I'm sure he'd be up for it once he's done.

I'm fine with waiting for Quozl.

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Playtesting

If quozl wants to, I think that would be plenty of quality testing.

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Playtesting

Well he just sent me Batman II, so you should ask him. :-)

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Playtesting

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 1572864)

Well he just sent me Batman II, so you should ask him. :-)

:up: Asked him already & he said yes so I have just sent the write-up to him.

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Playtesting

Playtest from Quozl:

Quote:

Originally Posted by quozl

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Cosmic Boy

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
?Pass

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
?Pass

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
?Pass

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit too powerful or too weak.
?Pass

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
?Pass

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
?Pass

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
?Pass

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
?Pass

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
?Pass

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
?Pass

_____________________________________________________________

Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 260
- Give a brief overview. Legionaire Leadership is very nice but it creates some hard decisions since the other Legionaires want unrevelaed OMs too. I think the more Legionaires you have in your army, the better the power is.
Map: NEgative Zone
Units: Cosmic Boy, Saturn Girl, and Brainiac 5 vs. Wonder Woman, Deadpool, and Bob

Spoiler Alert!

_____________________________________________________________

Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 260
- Give a brief overview. Much better with a full team!
Map: Negative Zone
Units: Cosmic Boy, Saturn Girl, Brainiac 5, Timber Wolf, Lightning lad, and Superboy vs. Professor X, Sabretooth, Magneto (I), Scarlet Witch, Strong Guy, and Jubilee

Spoiler Alert!

R1: lots of moving then Scarlet Witch & Jubilee atack Timber Wolf but fail to inflict any wounds and Magneto attacks Cosmic Boy (from 6 spaces away) and fails to inflict any wounds.
R2: Brainiac 5 puts 1W on Scarlet Witch & Cosmic Boy puts 2W on Jubilee, Magneto fails to wound Cosmic Boy, Brainiac 5 puts 1W on Scarlet Witch & Lightning Lad attacks Magneto & Jubilee with CLB but fials to wound either one, Sabretooth pounces Brainiac 5 but Shield Belt works& Jubilee puts 1W on Brainiac 5 & Magneto throws up Professor X and Strong Guy, Brainiac 5 tries to attack Scarlet Witch but got 0 skulls on the reroll & Superboy uses FHV for 1W on Sabretooth and attacks him for another wound, Strong Guy attacks Superboy but fails to wound him & Jubilee does the same & Magneto follows suit. We also figured out that Jubilee only gets to use Sidekick when revealing an order marker!
R3: Superboy uses FHV on Sabretooth (with B5's help) for 1W & attacks him for another wound & Saturn Girl moves up and puts 1W on Scarlet Witch and herself with Psychic Blastm Scarlet Witch curses Cosmic Boy & attacks Brainiac 5 for 1W & Sabretooth attacks Brainiac 5 but MTD works, Superboy FHVs Scarlet Witch for a KO and then KOs Sabretooth with an attack & Lightning Lad uses CLB on Jubilee twice but fails to wound her, Strong Guy risks an LEA to attack Superboy but MTD works & Magneto attacks Brainiac 5 but Shield Belt works, Brianiac 5 KOs Strong Guy with a 4-skull roll and no shields (and no redirection) & Timber Wolf moves up, Magneto attacks Brianiac 5 bt Shield Belt works & Jubilee attacks Superboy but fails to wound him.
R4: Superboyattacks Professor X but is stopped by Psychic Defense X & lightning Lad attacks Jubilee but fails to wound her, magneto throws Superboy twice for 2W & Junbille attacks Superboy but fails to wound him, Superboy puts 1W on Jubilee & Lightning Lad puts 2W on Magneto with CLB but nothing on Jubilee, magneto puts 2W on Superboy & Jubilee fails to wound Superboy, Brainiac 5 puts 2W on Professor X & Superboy risks 2 LEAs and takes 1W to KO Professor X.
R5: Magneto fails to wound Timber Wolf & so does Jubilee, Timber Wolf fails to wound Jubilee, gets Savage Fury and then rolls 0 skulls on the 2nd attack & Lightning Lad gets nothing on Magneto & Jubilee with CLB, Magneto puts 1W on Timber Wolf & Jubilee puts 2W on him, Timber Wolf then KOs Jubilee, gets Savage Fury, and then KOs Magneto.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Cosmic Boy was cursed but unwounded (and the curse never affected him as he just used Legionaire Leadership without taking a turn), Lightning Lad was also unwounded, Superboy had 5 wounds, Timber Wolf had 2 wounds, Brianiac 5 had 2 wounds, and Saturn Girl had 1 wound (self-inflicted)

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Playtesting

Cool. I think he looks solid and you have all the tests you need here. (Bats' still isn't linked to the OP) So whenever you get all that together I think we are ready for final editing.

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Playtesting

I propose Cosmic Boy move to final editing @ 260

Re: The Book of Cosmic Boy - Playtesting