Marvel Custom Destructible Object Cards

[Annerios]

Since we have had fun with this topic in the regular HS customs' forum ( http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=1809&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 ),
I thought it would be a good idea to get a template up for the Marvel objects.

This template seems more suited for sci-fi/urban items.

Here is the template:

http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/MH_Blank_DO_Card.PNG

I also have a larger .bmp version of the template. If anyone wants it, PM me and I'll e-mail it to you.

Here is another great template by Allskulls:

http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/DO_Gun_Metal_Blue.jpg


Doc_Savage's 2nd revision on the subject so far (based on play testing):

MELEE OBJECTS
SUPER-COMPLEX V2 RULES
By the Heroscapers Community
Edited by Doc Savage

Melee Objects will each have their own Army Card, which will list their LIFE, DEFENSE, SIZE, Hit Zone, and any special powers the object may have.

Melee Objects come in the same sizes as Heroscape figures:
SMALL
MEDIUM
LARGE
HUGE

Melee Objects may take up 1 or more spaces.

When a Unique Hero ends its movement adjacent to a Melee Object, instead of attacking it may pick up the Melee Object. Remove the Object from the Battlefield and place the Object on the Army Card of the figure carrying the Object.
OR
When a Unique Hero ends its movement adjacent to a Melee Object, instead of attacking it may pick up the Melee Object. Place the Melee Object's Army Card with the carrying Unique Hero's Army Card. The Melee Object moves with the carrying Hero and when movement ends must be placed in a space(s) adjacent to that Hero.

SMALL Melee Objects can be used by any figure sized Large or above or by any figure with Superstrength.
MEDIUM Melee Objects can be used by any Huge Figure or by any figure with Superstrength.
LARGE Melee Objects can only be used by figures with Superstrength.
HUGE Melee Objects can only be used by figures with Superstrength and an Attack of 6 or higher.

Additionally, figures with powers that move other figures (Throw, Teleport, Carry, etc.) may use Melee Objects of the same size as the figures that they may affect.

While carrying a Melee Object, a figure may only use its normal movement. No Flying, Leaping, Swing Line, Hyper Speed 5, or similar powers may be used by the figure carrying the object. A figure carrying an object may pass it to an adjacent Superstrength figure that you control at the end of any turn. A figure can drop the object on an adjacent empty space at any time during its turn.


USING MELEE OBJECTS

You can use Melee Objects in 3 ways. You can use them to boost your adjacent normal attack, you can defend with them or you can throw them.

BASHING YOUR ADJACENT OPPONENT
If you can pick up a Melee Object, you can use a normal attack to Bash your opponent's adjacent figures with it. The following bonuses are in addition to any normal attack bonuses.

SMALL Melee Objects add 1 die to your attack.
MEDIUM Melee Objects add 1 dice to your attack.
LARGE Melee Objects add 2 dice to your attack.
HUGE Melee Objects add 3 dice to your attack.

CHUCKING CARS
If you can pick up a Melee Object, you can throw it. The Melee Object must be placed adjacent to the attacked figure. If the target was destroyed by the attack, the Melee Object should be placed in the space the target had occupied. If there is no available adjacent space, the Melee Object was destroyed in the attack and is removed from the battlefield.

SMALL Melee Objects can be thrown a figure's Attack number -1 in spaces.
MEDIUM Melee Objects can be thrown a figure's Attack number - 1 in spaces
LARGE Melee Objects can be thrown a figure's Attack number -2 in spaces.
HUGE Melee Objects can be thrown a figure's Attack number -3 in spaces.

Roll Attack Dice equal to the distance thrown + the thrown Melee Object's remaining life.


THIS PHONE BOOTH IS MY SHIELD
If a figure is carrying a Melee Object, you may use it to block adjacent normal attacks. To do this, roll defense dice equal to the Melee Object's Defense. Apply all damage to the Melee object. If it is destroyed, any excess damage is lost.


MY STREETLIGHT IS BROKEN
Melee Objects take damage in a number of ways.

DEFENDING - As shown above, if your figure uses a Melee Object to block an adjacent normal attack, it takes damage.
ATTACKING - If you Bash a figure with a Melee Object, the Melee Object takes damage equal to the number of wounds inflicted on the attacked figure. Do not apply wounds to the attacking Melee Object in excess of the wounds required to destroy the attacked figure (or Melee Object being used by the defending figure.) If the attackers Melee Object is destroyed, any remaining wounds are NOT placed on the figure carrying the Melee Object.
THROWING - If you Throw a Melee Object at a figure, the Melee Object takes damage equal to the number of wounds inflicted on the attacked figure. Do not apply wounds to the attacking Melee Object in excess of the wounds required to destroy the attacked figure (or Melee Object being used by the defending figure.) If the attackers Melee Object is destroyed, any remaining wounds are NOT placed on the figure throwing the Melee Object.


GENERAL RULES
A Melee Object can be targeted instead of the character who is holding it. If so, roll attack and defense normally, using the defense from the object card.

A figure may hold only 1 melee object at a time.

When an Melee Object is destroyed, put the Object and its card out of play. A destroyed object will never revive.

[Annerios]

Just to start things rolling, here is a wacky idea for an object:

http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/CarCard.PNG

With these super strong heroes, who does not want to toss some cars around? :lol:

There are some object packs for Heroclix that give you indoor and outdoor objects that may be of use or interesting to make into cards. They have lamposts and mailboxes, etc.

By the way, the car is a 1/43 scale vehicle that takes up two hex spaces.
I have a few of them in different styles (SUV, etc). You can find them at Toys R Us.

[netherspirit]

That car is wicked awesome. :up: :up:

[allskulls]

Good stuff, Annerios! I have been thinking about this since I picked up the HC X-Men Danger Room set. Need an idea for the generator.

[IAmBatman]

Brilliant idea, Annerios! I'll now be looking around for random crap to toss on my battlefield and let people chuck at each other!

[Jack o' Blades]

Ever heard of the game -- Marvel Nemesis: Rise of the Imperfects? If not, it's a 3-D fighting game where you pick a Marvel or EA hero, and well, fight. In the playing "arena" I guess you could call it, there are several objects of which that can be thrown. Some of which include, cars (as you have done a wonderful job of), explosive barrels, light posts, parking meters, rubble from buildings, and so on.

Anyway, I thought of doing something like this for the explosive barrel:
(I'll go by your format)

Explosive Barrel -- Destructible Object

Barrel Throw Special Attack
Range 6. Attack 3.
For every wound inflicted by this attack, place one wound marker on this card. Once there are 3 wound markers on this card, the Explosion ability is automatically initiated. If the barrel is thrown and it does not reach it's 3 wound marker limit, then place it on an open adjacent space next to the target of the Barrel Throw Special Attack. The barrel can be thrown until Explosion is used.

Explosion
This ability can only be used through the Barrel Throw Special Attack. Once the barrel has 3 wound markers on it, roll 5 attack dice once for the last-targeted figure of Barrel Throw Special Attack and all adjacent units around it. Figures roll defense die seperately. After rolling, remove the barrel figure from the game.


Something like that

[Annerios]

Good stuff, Annerios! I have been thinking about this since I picked up the HC X-Men Danger Room set. Need an idea for the generator.

I noticed you had not done the object card amongst all of the awesome templates you put up, so I figured I'd throw it up here. :D

A generator, explosive barrels; all of that stuff sounds like fun. It will make the battles a bit more epic and more like the comics, movies and animated shows.

[IAmBatman]

There's almost too much awesomeness going on in this section for me to handle, lately. :D

[allskulls]

Good stuff, Annerios! I have been thinking about this since I picked up the HC X-Men Danger Room set. Need an idea for the generator.

I noticed you had not done the object card amongst all of the awesome templates you put up, so I figured I'd throw it up here. :D

A generator, explosive barrels; all of that stuff sounds like fun. It will make the battles a bit more epic and more like the comics, movies and animated shows.
I suppose I could. Maybe give a different look for each card like with the character cards.

I was actually thinking about making draftable objects that work just like the destructable ones but gives a bonus to your team only.

[CupidsArt]

Okay, I know I need to tweak the wording but here's my shot at it, :D

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s36/cupidsart/HazzardBarrels.jpg

[Annerios]

Okay, I know I need to tweak the wording but here's my shot at it, :D

All right, I'm going to try to decipher it, because you are making my eyes bleed. :P

For Explosion: if the barrels get a wound marker, you roll the D20. On 1-9 nothing happens; on 10-19 all figures within 4 clear sight spaces take one wound without defense and on a 20 all figures within 8 clear sight spaces take one wound with no defense. Since there are multiple barrels, each time the figure is attacked, there can be an explosion. Now, if the thing takes 3 wound markers from one attack then you get the Blinding Explosion which kills all figures within 3 clear sight spaces. All figures within 6 clear spaces of the Blinding Explosion can't attack or move until the round is over because they are "blinded by the light".

Is that right?

What on earth is in those barrels? Run away! We're all going to die. :twisted:

It would be satisfying to watch the Hulk get turned into a green slag heap by something like this.

[IAmBatman]

Blinded by the light,
revved up like a deuce,
another runner in the night
Blinded by the light,
revved up like a deuce,
another runner in the night
Blinded by the light,
revved up like a deuce,
another runner in the night

[allskulls]

Here's my custom template. Plan to vary the colors and design for each object so more templates to follow. I left out the Marvel logo since some of us custom makers actually like DC :wink: I will be leaving out the Marvel logo on all my character blanks as well.
http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/DO_Gun_Metal_Blue.jpg

[Annerios]

Here's my custom template. Plan to vary the colors and design for each object so more templates to follow. I left out the Marvel logo since some of us custom makers actually like DC :wink: I will be leaving out the Marvel logo on all my character blanks as well.

That looks awesome.

One small correction: fix the spelling on destructible at the top.

[allskulls]

Here's my custom template. Plan to vary the colors and design for each object so more templates to follow. I left out the Marvel logo since some of us custom makers actually like DC :wink: I will be leaving out the Marvel logo on all my character blanks as well.

That looks awesome.

One small correction: fix the spelling on destructible at the top.
:oops:

EDIT: Fixed :wink:

[IAmBatman]

I'm not anywhere that I can use Allskulls' or Annerios' awesome destructible card templates right now, but I did have an idea for using Trees as weapons that I thought might work well on one of these cards. I figure it wouldn't hurt to get feedback on my wording before creating a card for this.
Basically the tree itself would be 4 defense and 6 life. Here's the text for the special abilities:

PINE TREE

Uproot
A figure with Superstrength ending its move adjacent to the Pine Tree may Uproot it. That Uprooter will not be affected by any Special Attacks on this card.

Uproot Special Attack
Range 1. Attack 3.
After the Pine Tree is Uprooted, if there were any figures other than the Uprooter adjacent to the Pine Tree, they must all be immediately attacked with the Uproot Special Attack. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures, placing one Wound Marker on this card for each skull rolled. The Uproot Special Attack may be performed once on each of the Uprooter's subsequent turns, until the Pine Tree is destroyed.

Tree Toss Special Attack
Range Special. Attack Special.
After any required Uprooting Special Attacks, the Uprooter may Toss the Pine Tree a number of spaces equal to the Uprooter's attack value and roll a number of dice equal to the remaining life points on this card in a Tree Toss Special Attack against any figure on the targeted space. The Pine Tree is always destroyed after a Tree Toss Special Attack.

[CupidsArt]

Ha, yeah, I guess I need to go over re-word that card, not sure what language I was trying to speak there. I'll try finishing that tonight and get the revised version back up in this thread, :)

[Annerios]

Basically the tree itself would be 4 defense and 6 life. Here's the text for the special abilities:

PINE TREE

Uproot
A figure with Superstrength ending its move adjacent to the Pine Tree may Uproot it. That Uprooter will not be affected by any Special Attacks on this card.

Uproot Special Attack
Range 1. Attack 3.
After the Pine Tree is Uprooted, if there were any figures other than the Uprooter adjacent to the Pine Tree, they must all be immediately attacked with the Uproot Special Attack. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures, placing one Wound Marker on this card for each skull rolled. The Uproot Special Attack may be performed once on each of the Uprooter's subsequent turns, until the Pine Tree is destroyed.

Tree Toss Special Attack
Range Special. Attack Special.
After any required Uprooting Special Attacks, the Uprooter may Toss the Pine Tree a number of spaces equal to the Uprooter's attack value and roll a number of dice equal to the remaining life points on this card in a Tree Toss Special Attack against any figure on the targeted space. The Pine Tree is always destroyed after a Tree Toss Special Attack.

Hmm. I was thinking of something along the same lines for a tree and a lampost.

What happens to the tree if the figure that uprooted the tree moves away in a subsequent turn and the tree has not been destroyed?

It is uprooted, so is it automatically destroyed? Does the figure place it adjacent to their figure because they are carrying it around to club other figures? :lol:

[allskulls]

PINE TREE

Uproot
A figure with Superstrength and a printed attack value of 6 or higher ending its move adjacent to the Pine Tree may Uproot it. That Uprooter will not be affected by any Special Attacks on this card.
Just to separate the lower level SS characters :wink:

[IAmBatman]

Darn good point you make, Annerios. I think if they're strong enough to uproot a fully grown tree, no reason they can't carry it. I could easily work in a Tree Carry that was essentially the same wording as Carry, except only for the Uprooter and only for the Uprooted Tree.
BTW, I only see these cards working for the single based trees, not the big ole double basers.
And, yeah, if I had one, I'd totally love to have people club each other with lamposts in a similar fashion.

[Annerios]

Here is what the outdoor adventure kit looks like.

http://www.spiritgames.co.uk/image/ccg/684.jpg

These turn up on e-Bay sometimes.

[MacG]

Here is what the outdoor adventure kit looks like.

These turn up on e-Bay sometimes.

These are tempting, too. Megabloks spotted by Ninthdoc, but these are new ones. They even come with some great street scenery. You can't beat a lamppost to swing and an assault, in the words of the Tick, with the US postal service. Oh, and the Brinks truck is a destructible object with destructo action. The construction site includes a welding gun and the destructible HAZZARD BARRELS, too.

Bank robbery
(http://megablocks.com/en/products/description.php?product_id=1236&brand_id=63&cat=1)
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e195/Leprejuan/bankheist.jpg

Construction site (http://megablocks.com/en/products/description.php?product_id=1235&brand_id=63&cat=1)
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e195/Leprejuan/constructionsite.jpg

[Annerios]

I've seen some of that stuff. The MegaBloks parts are very useful.

I already use their boats for HS and will probably get one of the pirate ships.

That stuff is even better when it goes on closeout. Check out any local Marshalls stores, as they had a lot of Pyrates stuff recently at low prices.

[Cigarman]

Just raided the old Heroclix box.

Would love to see cards for the indoor and outdoor set 3-d objects.

Dumpster
Mailbox
Crate
Lamp post

Desk
Soda Machine
Bookcase
Old Computer

Cigarman

[IAmBatman]

No picture yet, but here's a card!

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s31/IBeBats/Destructible%20Objects/PineTreeDestructibleObject.jpg

[IAmBatman]

Oh, on the Card DO card, Annerios, I think it would be cool if there was something in there about the car exploding (whether after being thrown or by being attacked). It'd be cool if Hulk could leap over to it, punch the engine in, and cause an explosion affecting him and anyone else adjacent to the car. Maybe a DW7K type deal?

[Firemaster]

Here was something I was thinking of for an Exploding barrel:

Explosive Barrel-1 Life, 0 Defense

Explosion
When the Explosive Barrel is destroyed, roll 4 attack dice once against all figures within 2 spaces of the Explosive Barrel. Each affected figure then rolls the defense dice seperately. Add one automatic shield to the defense roll of any affected figure with Superstrength.

Barrel Toss Special Attack
Range Special Attack 4
Instead of attacking, an adjacent figure with Superstrength may throw the Explosive Barrel by choosing a figure within a number of spaces of the attacking figure equal to the attacking figure's attack value. The chosen figure and all figures within 2 spaces of the chosen figure are affected by Barrel Toss Special Attack. Roll 4 attack dice once against all affected figures. Each affected figure rolls the defense dice seperately and any affected figure with Superstrength adds one automatic Shield to its defense roll.

[Cigarman]

First attempt at some objects based on 3D objects from Indoor and Outdoor Adventure Sets for Heroclix. Comments are welcome.

Cigarman



Mailbox
Life: 3 Def: 3
Light Object
Units w. SS can carry and use light objects as weapons. A unit can hold only 1 object at a time.
Pick up object at range 1 and place on card. An object can be picked up at any point during movement. If unit elects to drop object, or is KOed, place the object into any adjacent space.

+1 attack (Range 1 only). Remove object from game after one use.

Special Attack: Special Delivery: Range 6 Attack 2. Remove object from game after one use.

Crate
Life: 2 Def: 2
Light Object
Units w. SS can carry and use light objects as weapons. A unit can hold only 1 object at a time.
Pick up object at range 1 and place on card. An object can be picked up at any point during movement. If unit elects to drop object, or is KOed, place the object into any adjacent space.

+1 attack (Range 1 only). Remove object from game after one use.

Special Attack: Federal Express: Range 8 Attack 2. Remove object from game after one use.

Office Desk
Life: 2 Def: 2
Light Object
Units w. SS can carry and use light objects as weapons. A unit can hold only 1 object at a time.
Pick up object at range 1 and place on card. An object can be picked up at any point during movement. If unit elects to drop object, or is KOed, place the object into any adjacent space.

+1 attack (Range 1 only) or +1 Defense. Remove object from game after one use.

Special Attack: Office Rage: Range 6 Attack 2. Remove object from game after one use.

Bookcase
Life: 2 Def: 1
Light Object
Units w. SS can carry and use light objects as weapons. A unit can hold only 1 object at a time.
Pick up object at range 1 and place on card. An object can be picked up at any point during movement. If unit elects to drop object, or is KOed, place the object into any adjacent space.

+1 attack (Range 1 only). Remove object from game after one use.

Special Attack: Home Schoolin: Range 6 Attack 2. Remove object from game after one use.


Dumpster
Life: 4 Def: 3
Heavy Object
Units w. SS can carry and use light objects as weapons. A unit can hold only 1 object at a time.
Pick up object at range 1 and place on card. An object can be picked up at any point during movement. If unit elects to drop object, or is KOed, place the object into any adjacent space.

+2 attack (Range 1 only). The attacker places Dumpster in any space
adjacent to the target after use.

Special Attack: Trashed: Range 4 Attack 3 The attacker places Dumpster in any space adjacent to the target after use.


Computer
Life: 3 Def: 3
Heavy Object
Units w. SS can carry and use light objects as weapons. A unit can hold only 1 object at a time.
Pick up object at range 1 and place on card. An object can be picked up at any point during movement. If unit elects to drop object, or is KOed, place the object into any adjacent space.

+2 attack (Range 1 only). Remove object from game after one use.

Special Attack: Ton of Spam: Range 4 Attack 3. Remove object from game after one use.


Soda Machine
Life: 3 Def: 3
Heavy Object
Units w. SS can carry and use light objects as weapons. A unit can hold only 1 object at a time.
Pick up object at range 1 and place on card. An object can be picked up at any point during movement. If unit elects to drop object, or is KOed, place the object into any adjacent space.

+2 attack (Range 1 only). Remove object from game after one use.

Special Attack: Refreshment Break: Range 4 Attack 3

Light Post
Life: 3 Def: 4
Heavy Object
Units w. SS can carry and use light objects as weapons. A unit can hold only 1 object at a time.
Pick up object at range 1 and place on card. An object can be picked up at any point during movement. If unit elects to drop object, or is KOed, place the object into any adjacent space.

+2 attack (Range 1 only). Remove object from game after one use.

Special attack: Steel Bowtie: Range 1 Attack +1 A target successfully hit with this object also loses his next order marker. Remove object from game after one use.

Special Attack: Street Javelin: Range 4 Attack 3. Remove object from game after one use.

[webhead817]

Speaking of cars...here's another pic: http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=2285

The scale is perfect, and they tend to add just the right touch to get the city streets looking real.

The old HeroClix stuff is also in scale...my first map almost certainly will look like the post office. ;)

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, the scale is just right there, you're right, webhead. Where'd you get the car at?

[IAmBatman]

Cigarman - you've got some good ideas I'd be interested in seeing made into cards. One quick question to start things off - is there any difference between light objects and heavy objects? As far as I can tell, they're worded the same, but I imagine you gave them two different names for a reason.

[Annerios]

Yeah, the scale is just right there, you're right, webhead. Where'd you get the car at?

I have a few of them in different styles (SUV, etc) too. You can find them at Toys R Us.

Here is your ready-to-explode car, IamBatman:

http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/10013/IMG_2488.JPG

Maybe if the attacker rolls all skulls (like the Retchets) the car automatically explodes when attacked. ?

:P

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

That car is AWESOME!! Can't wait to see the destructable army card for that one. :D

[IAmBatman]

That's sweet, Annerios! I like your idea for how the car explodes, but the even more important part to get down is what happens when it explodes. I'm guessing some sort of D20 roll for damage for all adjacent figures.

[champrjk]

Like maybe roll to see how far the explosion throws you then roll again for damage?

[Cigarman]

Cigarman - you've got some good ideas I'd be interested in seeing made into cards. One quick question to start things off - is there any difference between light objects and heavy objects? As far as I can tell, they're worded the same, but I imagine you gave them two different names for a reason.

Two different types of objects. light and heavy, provide different attack bonuses at Range 1 and have different range and attack values when you throw them. Heavy does more damage, but you can't throw them as far.

Most of these are "one-shot" deals. Use them once to smack somebody, or chuck them, and they are removed from the game.

I based this on the effects the objects have in Heroclix.

Cigarman

[IAmBatman]

Ah, gotcha, I didn't catch that b/c the wording for the actual powers was the same. One reason I bring it up is because it seems like some of those light objects would be light enough for a guy like Captain America or Batman to carry around and use for attacks (projectile or melee). I wonder if you shouldn't let figures without Superstrength use the light objects as well, but restrict the heavy objects to just Superstrength figures? That way the non-superstrong figures could get in on more of the fun.

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

If you let a non-Superstrength figure pick up light items then something like an Arrow Grut could pick up an office desk. :shock: I don't think that seems to logical. Maybe say without superstregth, but has a basic attack of 3 or higher. Then only *Stronger* figures could do it.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, that's probably a good idea, Hi. You could also specify unique heroes if you wanted, or Medium 5 or bigger - there's a lot of different ways to do it. But attack value might be the best way.

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

You bring a good point about Heroes. With a squad how could you tell which squad member was holding the object?

[IAmBatman]

True. Also, it'd seem weird to see Deathstalkers picking up an object. Whereas I'm pretty sure all the Heroes have hands. Hmm ... except Dund ... so maybe Heroes with an attack value of 4 or higher? Except then it seems like you'd be unfairly penalizing Carr ... Heroes Medium 5 or taller? That way Dund (Large 4) wouldn't make the cut. Eldgrim wouldn't easier, but that's his fault for being so small.

[GreyOwl]

It's not just squads; you'd have the problem with common heroes, too. You should specify "unique hero figure" to cover both cases, like IAmBatman suggested.

[champrjk]

Oh come on a dumuteff could chuck an office desk.

[IAmBatman]

Dumuteff could - but if he starts carrying an item around and you have multiple Dumuteffs in play, it could get confusing.

[GreyOwl]

How about unique heroes that stand upright and have (at least) 2 arms?

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, that wording doesn't sound very official though. Besides, I could see a dragon tossing most of this stuff, and I'm not sure they exactly stand upright. Brunak is also a confusing one - four legs down, two arms up.

[champrjk]

What about hitting or kicking the object into the air instead of picking it up and tossing it?

[GreyOwl]

Yeah, that wording doesn't sound very official though. Besides, I could see a dragon tossing most of this stuff, and I'm not sure they exactly stand upright. Brunak is also a confusing one - four legs down, two arms up.

I didn't mean that it should be necessarily worded that way, I was trying to come up with some criteria. So in order to include Bruknak and some dragons, how about if the figure must have at least 2 limbs that it does not require for walking/moving around?

[IAmBatman]

That would make sense as criteria, yes. But I have no idea how to word it without taking up a lot of space and seeming kinda weird sounding. I encourage you to give it a try, though, but I'd have no idea where to begin myself.

[GreyOwl]

How about something like "A figure may use destructible objects only if it has at least two limbs that are not connected to its base." ? I'm not sure if we want to call them "destructible objects" or something else, but you get the idea.

[Annerios]

How about unique heroes that stand upright and have (at least) 2 arms?

I would say humanoid, but it seems like you want to include dragons, etc.

At least 2 arms is nice, because it allows for creatures with tentacles.

[Cigarman]

The reason why I've limited the use of objects to figs with superstrength is to avoid having to make a ton of exceptions and special cases for the older HS figures. Besides, smacking others with mailboxes and chucking dumpsters is a staple of Superheroes, and does not realy fit with the rest of the HS gang.

Another reason to limit the use of these objects to superstrength characters is the fact that while characters like Capt. America could technically lift a mailbox or desk, he does not have enough raw strength to effectively wield it as a weapon or throw it with enough force to qualify for the special attack.

Cigarman

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, you're probably right that it's easier to just keep it to Superstrong characters for a lot of reasons.

[Annerios]

You can also house rule that certain regular HS characters have the Super-strength for a particular scenario.

That keeps it simple.

[IAmBatman]

That's true - could be a fun thing for certain scenarios.

[IAmBatman]

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s31/IBeBats/Destructible%20Objects/DOWaterTower.jpg

[Annerios]

A battle on that water tower (or around it) could certainly be painful for all involved.

That is a very cool custom piece. It looks nice and grunged up for a post-apocalyptic game too.

[Annerios]

Here is my attempt to grab the top item from Cigarman's concept list and make it a bit more HS-like in terms of wording, etc.

http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Annerios/MailboxCard2.PNG

Grungebob, I hope you don't mind me borrowing your battlefield photo!

If the card seems off let me know. I am in here playing in the sandbox with you guys, but I don't even own Marvel HS yet (and have yet to play it). :oops:

I did read the rulebook, though!

[champrjk]

:lol: A mail box? Thats awesome. :D

[IAmBatman]

That Mailbox looks cool! The only thing I'd say is make the title "Mailbox" a little bigger, as it seems a bit dwarfed right now. But maybe I'm prejudiced since my "Water Tower" looks silly big in comparison. :P

[champrjk]

I tend to agree. Mailbox text is a bit small.

[GreyOwl]

What, did nobody read my long thread on font sizes ??? :) :) :)

[Cigarman]

The card looks pretty good. Had a few thoughts.

My intention was that you were required to use it pretty much when you picked it up. That's why I worded it so you would have to use it on the first range 1 attack you make after getting it. I don't have a problem with figs lugging objects around while doing ranged attacks, but it's gonna get silly if they can engage at range 1 holding a dumpster up in one hand like a waiter while punching someone with the other. The rewording does not make this clear.


Also, I noticed he defense and life were changed on the card. Any particular reason? I don't mind discussing the Def and Life if you all think they are inappropriate.


Cigarman

[Annerios]

Actually, I loaded the templates into HCC, so I can crank these out as needed and changing the text is simple and easy.

I just forgot to increase the font size on the item title. It is at the standard HS card default, which is a bit smaller.

I'll increase the font size and revise it. Thanks for pointing it out.

By the way, what is the recommended font size for that one? It looks like 16 or so. . .

[Annerios]

The card looks pretty good. Had a few thoughts.

My intention was that you were required to use it pretty much when you picked it up. That's why I worded it so you would have to use it on the first range 1 attack you make after getting it. I don't have a problem with figs lugging objects around while doing ranged attacks, but it's gonna get silly if they can engage at range 1 holding a dumpster up in one hand like a waiter while punching someone with the other. The rewording does not make this clear.

Ok. So, that is what the "pick up object at range 1 and place on card." and range 1 references are about. I was not sure if you were just trying to emphasize adjacency. It is meant to indicate you are using it immediately for your next melee attack, repositioning it or tossing it at an enemy. If I put something about Object Attack Enhancement being mandatory if your next attack is against an adjacent figure, that should address that part. If not, the item is being carried for throwing. Is that more along the lines of what you intended?


Also, I noticed he defense and life were changed on the card. Any particular reason? I don't mind discussing the Def and Life if you all think they are inappropriate.


I was switching back and forth between programs and those values stayed in HCC from another card. I think 3 Defense is fine. In terms of life, I'd probably go with 2 for the mailbox (I've seen some pretty heavy ones that would justify a 3, though!) For the bookcase, desk, and crates, I'd probably go with 1, just to keep it simple. Regular folks can smash those with weapons easily, so it should be simple for orcs, etc.

The other values look good to me.

I can see civilians and regular troops like Microcorp agents opening fire on stuff all over the battlefield to deprive these superheroes and villains from extra bonuses. In a sense, they function like disposable traveling attack enhancement glyphs, except that your opponent can get rid of them.

I think I have the text on the exploding car down, so I'll post that card too when I revise the mailbox.

[Cigarman]

Ok. So, that is what the "pick up object at range 1 and place on card." and range 1 references are about. I was not sure if you were just trying to emphasize adjacency. It is meant to indicate you are using it immediately for your next melee attack, repositioning it or tossing it at an enemy. If I put something about Object Attack Enhancement being mandatory if your next attack is against an adjacent figure, that should address that part. If not, the item is being carried for throwing. Is that more along the lines of what you intended?



Basically, you can pick up an object (if you have superstrength), and can carry it around as long as you like. You can drop it whenever you like, or chuck it whenever you like. You only "have to" use it when you engage someone in melee. I'm not sure how best to convey that, so I tried to word it similar to a one use carryable glyph that is removed from the game after one use, whether that use is a bonus to your next attack roll on an adjacent figure, or by using it for it's special ranged attack. The only exception is the Dumpster, which is placed next to the target figure after you use it, ready for another use.

As for the life and def, I can see your point on the light objects and will change the write ups accordingly. Are the heavy objects reasonable?

Cigarman

[MacG]

Curse you, Annerios! You finished some while I was still getting them ready. I took a slightly different tack, paralleling the rules from the one object scenario we got in the Marvel rules.

Liftable objects
These rules are parallel to those in Heroscape Marvel : The Conflict Begins in the final scenario, "Clash on the Streets".

A character with Super-strength may lift and use special powers from a liftable object. Place the object on the character’s card and take the card for the object. A figure may only carry one liftable object at a time. While carrying a liftable object, a figure may only use its normal movement. No Flying, Leaping, Swing Line, Hyper Speed 5, or similar power may be used by the figure carrying the object. A figure carrying an object may pass it to an adjacent figure with super-strength that you control at the end of any turn.

A liftable object can be targeted instead of the character who is holding it. If so, roll attack and defense normally, using the defense from the object card. Objects are also often destroyed when used in attacks. When an object is destroyed, put it and its card out of play normally. A destroyed object will never revive.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e195/Leprejuan/HS%20Misc%20Cnv/parkbench.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e195/Leprejuan/HS%20Misc%20Cnv/mailbox.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e195/Leprejuan/HS%20Misc%20Cnv/lamppost.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e195/Leprejuan/HS%20Misc%20Cnv/fireplug2-1.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e195/Leprejuan/HS%20Misc%20Cnv/manholecover.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e195/Leprejuan/HS%20Misc%20Cnv/safe.jpg

[champrjk]

Those are great ideas. What do you guys think about losing movement while carrying a small object?

[Annerios]

Curse you, Annerios! You finished some while I was still getting them ready. I took a slightly different tack, paralleling the rules from the one object scenario we got in the Marvel rules.

:lol: It looks like I should have looked at the glyph carrying rules in the scenarios.

It specifies in the those rules that figures carrying the device also lose 2 from their normal movement in addition to the lack of flying, etc. Is that too severe a penalty?

Clash on the Streets never mentions the term liftable object, so you may want to use device carrying rules as the reference instead (to avoid confusion).

Your cards look great. The one big difference I see is the way you present the items they are more durable. Cigarman had them as one shot enhancements, while yours can hit and stay in the game longer. I guess if you keep that -2 move penalty while carrying, then that can balance it out.

Have you had a chance to test any of these?

Great images, btw. They really make one want to get the MegaBloks bank for the pieces! At this point that is looking like a better deal than the Heroclix sets for the money, since you get all of this stuff, plus a great building and an armored car!

[IAmBatman]

I like those ideas, MacG! It makes sense to me that you could use the objects until someone destroys them. However, all the bashing the attacker does with them should damage the objects somewhat too, shouldn't they?
And I like the movement penalties (no flying/special moves, -2 move) from the Master set. It makes a lot of sense to implement those here.

[Annerios]

Basically, you can pick up an object (if you have superstrength), and can carry it around as long as you like. You can drop it whenever you like, or chuck it whenever you like. You only "have to" use it when you engage someone in melee. I'm not sure how best to convey that, so I tried to word it similar to a one use carryable glyph that is removed from the game after one use, whether that use is a bonus to your next attack roll on an adjacent figure, or by using it for it's special ranged attack. The only exception is the Dumpster, which is placed next to the target figure after you use it, ready for another use.

As for the life and def, I can see your point on the light objects and will change the write ups accordingly. Are the heavy objects reasonable?

Cigarman

Here is another attempt at your concept in HS terms:

http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Annerios/MailboxCard2.PNG

I thought the heavy objects looked ok, but take a look at what MacG posted. I think you are both working along the same lines, so a merge between the two concepts and optimizing the wording may be what is needed.

I like the fact that the rules on MacG's cards basically say, "hey, the rules are already in the master rulebook, so refer to them there." That saves space on the card for the object's abilities without the lengthy explanations.

Cigarman's concept keeps management of the objects to a minimum. The 1 use equals destruction method is very simple.

I'd say, you guys with this stuff at hand, get to testing. :P

I hope the Marvel set turns up locally soon, so I can grab a couple and that bank. I already have some jail terrain for a prison escape scenario and some extra brick walls and assorted urban items to dress up the battlefield.

IamBatman, here is your exploding car:

http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Annerios/CarCard.PNG

I used a simple mechanic Rhyddech came up with for our Predator self-destruct device that works well.

I can't wait to have a bunch of Predators hunting the Marvel characters. That is going to be a blast! :mrgreen:

[IAmBatman]

Awesome exploding car, Annerios! That explosion mechanic is pretty nice, you're right.
One small nitpick, as this will come up in gameplay. What happens with the Car Throw Special Attack when there aren't two unoccupied spaces next to the targeted figures? Right now there's nothing in the text to deal with that situation, or any specification that the car has to land on unoccupied spaces.

[Annerios]

Awesome exploding car, Annerios! That explosion mechanic is pretty nice, you're right.
One small nitpick, as this will come up in gameplay. What happens with the Car Throw Special Attack when there aren't two unoccupied spaces next to the targeted figures? Right now there's nothing in the text to deal with that situation, or any specification that the car has to land on unoccupied spaces.

Ok. We'll just jam it in one hex:

http://cvirus.net/wp-content/Vertical%20Car%20Crash%20-%20KGTV.jpg

:P

That certainly will come up. I'll have to see how to fit that in there.

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

Awesome exploding car, Annerios! That explosion mechanic is pretty nice, you're right.
One small nitpick, as this will come up in gameplay. What happens with the Car Throw Special Attack when there aren't two unoccupied spaces next to the targeted figures? Right now there's nothing in the text to deal with that situation, or any specification that the car has to land on unoccupied spaces.

Ok. We'll just jam it in one hex:

http://cvirus.net/wp-content/Vertical%20Car%20Crash%20-%20KGTV.jpg

:P

That certainly will come up. I'll have to see how to fit that in there. :rofl:

...and as for a fix you could say "You may only use Car Throw Special attack if there are two same level unoccupied spaces adjacent to the targeted figure." There's a mouth full.

[allskulls]

This is good stuff!

Superstrength levels. Some of these objects are heavier than others and may not be handled as easily with each character. I wish there was an official S levels in place.

Telekinesis and the like. Is there a way we could add the ability to use liftable objects with Telekinetic powers without putting it on the characters' cards?

[IAmBatman]

And this is why you're the Official Wording Guru, Hi. :P

[MacG]

I love the car, Annerios! I definitely think its explosion should be a special power.

The LIFTABLE is more or less a placeholder. I was hoping that the community here would develop a standard set of rules that I could have off to the side, rather than putting them on the card where they took up room. Are you guys interested?

I didn't want the objects to automatically be destroyed even if you miss the other guy completely. There's nothing more anticlimactic than swinging away and not damaging the guy and the object magically falling apart.

What if we said, "When you use the object to put wound markers on a figure, put the same number of wounds on the card"? What do you guys think? Hihihi, got a way to tighten it up?

I didn't use the -2 move for a reason. In the scenario, EVERYONE can move the liftable items, not just the superstrength guys. I dropped the -2 to move because I couldn't see the superstrength guys like the Hulk being appreciably slowed down by carrying a safe. I did keep the no special movement powers because I figured if the Hulk leapt holding a lamppost, he'd only be holding the base when he touched down. "Arr! Light break! No fun!"

[IAmBatman]

I could see there being no need to subtract movement if it's only for Superstrong characters - you're still taking their flying/leaping/swinging abilities, so that'll slow them down enough to make it worthwhile, IMO.
I like the idea of the one wound on an enemy, one wound on an object. That seems to represent the objects falling apart as you beat someone over the head with them well. It's not like they can't also be attacked and destroyed by enemies, so I think it stays balanced and lets you have a little more fun with the objects.
I'd say there's definitely room for some general rules for carried destructible objects to go in the TNT Codex Rules section.

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

And this is why you're the Official Wording Guru, Hi. :PThanks. I appreciate the compliments.

What if we said, "When you use the object to put wound markers on a figure, put the same number of wounds on the card"? What do you guys think? Hihihi, got a way to tighten it up? Yea I think I can help. :wink:

"When an attack from a destructable object inflicts a wound, place the same number of wounds on the Destructable Object."

I only see a small problem with this. You could attack say an Arrow Grut and roll 6 skulls, then the Gruts fails his defense, dies and the Destructable Object does too. It just doesn't seem like that should happen.

[MacG]

Forgetting the item special powers, how about we work out some general rules? I broke the rules into question sections. Take a look. Do you have a good idea? Do you like the suggestions? hate them? Have a better suggestion?

NAME?

First, it needs a name. I used liftable object, but portable object would work. Does anyone have an incredibly clever category name for destructible objects that you can lift and swing or lift and throw?

WHO CAN USE IT?
1) Anyone with superstrength can use all items.
OR
2) There are light and heavy objects. Heavy objects can only be used by ... I don't know how we can quantify this. Allskulls, wasn't this part your baby? Would superstrength and a printed attack of X or more dice do?

HOW TO USE IT?
A character with Super-strength may lift and use special powers from a liftable object. Place the object on the character’s card and take the card for the object. A figure may only carry one liftable object at a time. While carrying a liftable object, a figure may only use its normal movement. No Flying, Leaping, Swing Line, Hyper Speed 5, or similar power may be used by the figure carrying the object. A figure carrying an object may pass it to an adjacent super-strength figure that you control at the end of any turn. A figure can drop the object on an adjacent space at any time during its turn.

HOW IT IS DESTROYED?

An object can be targeted instead of the character who is holding it. If so, roll attack and defense normally, using the defense from the object card.

During use:
1) easy way - it's a one-shot
OR
2) damage method - Objects are also often destroyed when used in attacks. When an attack from a destructible object inflicts a wound, place the same number of wounds on the Destructible Object.

Hi, I think this does work. In your example with the orc, isn't only one wound inflicted? Hmm. Guys, what do you think? If I roll 6 skulls and kill an orc grut, didn't I just INFLICT only one wound?

DO WE NEED TO ADD DESTRUCTIBLE OBJECT BITS BELOW?
When an object is destroyed, put it and its card out of play normally. A destroyed object will never revive.

I have the revive glyph and I tremble with the idea of playing destructible objects with Homba.

[johnny139]

b]Hi, I think this does work. In your example with the orc, isn't only one wound inflicted? Hmm. Guys, what do you think? If I roll 6 skulls and kill an orc grut, didn't I just INFLICT only one wound?

Just make it say the amount of damage instead of the number of wounds.

[IAmBatman]

Those rules look sharp so far, Mac!

[allskulls]

Those rules look sharp so far, Mac!
Yes indeed! Just need to add some way for the Telekinetic characters to take advantage of all these liftable objects :wink:

[IAmBatman]

Not to mention Magneto ... hmm ...

[champrjk]

Someone who can throw a car without touching it. hmmm...........magneto.

Edit: Awww Iambatman beat me to it.

[MacG]

Uh. This is a tough one. Someone help me out here.

Telekinesis Special Attack
Range 6. Attack 4.
In addition to Telekinesis Special Attack, this figure may interact with a portable object as if it had super-strength. The figure may lift any one portable object within 6 clear sight spaces and use its special powers within that area. Leave the object on the board to indicate its location instead of placing it on this card.

[IAmBatman]

You could just put that "units with Magnetic Throw or Telekinetic Throw abilities can use objects as if they had Superstrength." That way they can just use the same range and melee attacks on the object cards seemlessly, without having to create new attacks just for them, or putting anything on the unit or object cards.

[GreyOwl]

Uh. This is a tough one. Someone help me out here.

Telekinesis Special Attack
Range 6. Attack 4.
In addition to Telekinesis Special Attack, this figure may interact with a portable object as if it had super-strength. The figure may lift any one portable object within 6 clear sight spaces and use its special powers within that area. Leave the object on the board to indicate its location instead of placing it on this card.

Except that we had agreed to keep any custom or house rules off the custom figure cards. So this would either have to be in the TNT rulebook or be something placed on the portable object card(s).

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

Uh. This is a tough one. Someone help me out here.

Telekinesis Special Attack
Range 6. Attack 4.
In addition to Telekinesis Special Attack, this figure may interact with a portable object as if it had super-strength. The figure may lift any one portable object within 6 clear sight spaces and use its special powers within that area. Leave the object on the board to indicate its location instead of placing it on this card.I don't know, I'd rather have the wording for a Telekinetic picking up an object in the Liftable Object rulebook. For Magneto there is a problem as he is a Mutant Revolutionary?!? not a Telekinetic.

[IAmBatman]

I think my suggestion addresses these last two concerns.

[allskulls]

You could just put that "units with Magnetic Throw or Telekinetic Throw abilities can use objects as if they had Superstrength." That way they can just use the same range and melee attacks on the object cards seemlessly, without having to create new attacks just for them, or putting anything on the unit or object cards.
I like this idea...how about: Figures with Throw abilities (Magnetic, Telekinetic, etc.) may target liftable objects with their Throw ability. When a figure Throws a liftable object with their Throw ability, any wounds given to the object may be counted as a normal attack of the same number of skulls against any one figure adjacent to the object after it lands.

This way the objects can be thrown from range but the thrower won't be granted any special abilities from the object's card. If Magneto wants to use the special abilities of an object, he will pull it to himself then use his Superstrength.

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

I think my suggestion addresses these last two concerns.Good solution. :D

[IAmBatman]

You could just put that "units with Magnetic Throw or Telekinetic Throw abilities can use objects as if they had Superstrength." That way they can just use the same range and melee attacks on the object cards seemlessly, without having to create new attacks just for them, or putting anything on the unit or object cards.
I like this idea...how about: Figures with Throw abilities (Magnetic, Telekinetic, etc.) may target liftable objects with their Throw ability. When a figure Throws a liftable object with their Throw ability, any wounds given to the object may be counted as a normal attack of the same number of skulls against any one figure adjacent to the object after it lands.

This way the objects can be thrown from range but the thrower won't be granted any special abilities from the object's card. If Magneto wants to use the special abilities of an object, he will pull it to himself then use his Superstrength.

hmm, I dunno, I kinda like the simplicity of my version. I could see the appeal of Magneto being able to pluck an object from range, though. But I think if a unit has the ability to throw a figure due to telekinetic or magnetic or other abilities, they'd be able to use those same abilities to lift the objects and use them to make the attacks on the card.
Also, generalizing it to throw abilties like your wording has it, Jotun will be able to do it too. Which he should! :D

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

Any figure with a Throw special ability adjacent to a liftable object may pick up the Liftable object as if it had Superstrength.

I like it.

[IAmBatman]

pick up and use. :D

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

pick up and use. :DRight I knew it was too simple. :wink:

Any figure with a Throw special ability adjacent to a Liftable Object may pick up and use the Liftable Object as if it had Superstrength.

[IAmBatman]

I like it. Though I'm willing to hear counterarguments.

[GreyOwl]

I like it, but not all figures may use the term "throw". It's possible that a figure with telekinetic powers may say "you can move a figure" or "place them elsewhere".

EDIT: Since Nightcrawler is on trial, this just occurred to me. Shouldn't he be able to grab anything, teleport above the figure, and let go of it? It shouldn't matter how strong he is. I'm mostly joking, though, as that would overly complicate the game...

[IAmBatman]

Theoretically you should need to be superstrong to pick these objects up (or have a power that allows you to). As far as I know, Nightcrawler's power lets him teleport himself and other figures, but not objects ... and he doesn't have superstrength ...
And if we establish this as a precendent before any telekinetic characters that don't have "throw" in the title of their power come to TNT trials, this should be less of a problem.
Besides, if a character has a telekinetic ability that doesn't act as a throwing ability, I don't think they should be eligible for this anyway. :P

[allskulls]

I like it. Though I'm willing to hear counterarguments.
It is too much like Hero Clix. Wizkids just came out with a card that allows ranged Telekinesis though (I had that as a house rule way back in the day).

Why wouldn't a TKer be able to use an item he is not adjacent to if he can throw figures he is not adjacent to? Also, the reason for disallowing the use of the objects abilities is because some objects may have abilities that require the character to actually "handle" the object. TK type throws does not require any handling (or adjacency).

[GreyOwl]

Do you mean in the game or in the comics, regarding Nightcrawler? In the comics, he can teleport objects, other people, and himself. In the game, at least on my version of the card, he can only teleport himself, not objects or other figures.

[IAmBatman]

Ah, my misperception of Nightcrawler. Mia culpa.
Allskulls - is there anyway to get a version of TKers or Magnetic Throwers using objects into the TNT rulebook. I agree that it's something that should stay off any unit cards (b/c the DO are custom) or object cards (for room).

[allskulls]

Ah, my misperception of Nightcrawler. Mia culpa.
Allskulls - is there anyway to get a version of TKers or Magnetic Throwers using objects into the TNT rulebook. I agree that it's something that should stay off any unit cards (b/c the DO are custom) or object cards (for room).
...how about: Figures with Throw abilities (Magnetic, Telekinetic, etc.) may target liftable objects with their Throw ability. When a figure Throws a liftable object with their Throw ability, any wounds given to the object may be counted as a normal attack of the same number of skulls against any one figure adjacent to the object after it lands.

[IAmBatman]

I'm not following the normal attack part of that - normal attack from the figure's card? A normal attack that another figure would get by using that object?
If it's a normal attack on the figure's card, it seems strange it wouldn't vary by object. If it's a normal attack on the objects card, well I'm pretty sure most of the object attacks are special attacks. :? So, yeah, I'm confused. :P

[MacG]

I think it needs to be special attack to keep the weirdness of having height at a minimum. It also is probably a special attack because your Warrior of Ashra can weave a web of steel that no blade can pierce, but a safe traveling at 40 mph might do the trick.

[allskulls]

I'm not following the normal attack part of that - normal attack from the figure's card? A normal attack that another figure would get by using that object?
If it's a normal attack on the figure's card, it seems strange it wouldn't vary by object. If it's a normal attack on the objects card, well I'm pretty sure most of the object attacks are special attacks. :? So, yeah, I'm confused. :P
It just means the targeted figure will have to defend against the same amount of skulls as wounds the object takes. In the case of the throw it would be 2. I know it could be wording betterly :D I chose to say "any wounds may be counted as a normal attack" so any figure with dodge type abilities against normal attacks can evade the thrown object. It may sound confusing but I think it will be very simple in application. :D

[IAmBatman]

So, let me see if I follow this. Your attacking figure, uses teleknetic throw, throw, magnetic throw, w/e to toss an object and, maybe, cause damage (wounds) to the object. The amount of attack dice you'd use on an attack against the figure the object collides with corresponds with the amount of damage (wounds) the attack put on the card.
Am I following that right?
If that is right, I'm not sure how well it works for me. It'd mean that if Jotun tossed a mailbox at someone's head, but didn't get his 14 to damage the mailbox, then it wouldn't even count as an attack against the person? Of course, I suppose that would keep this thrown object thing from unbalancing figures that can throw and attack on the same turn. And I suppose that if a figure fails his/her roll, it just means that the object missed the targeted figure. So, I might be talking myself into this one after all.

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

So let me get this straight. A figure with throw can throw a destructable object from whatever range it has on its throw power. Then you roll for damage and if you get any damage then the targeted figure roll defense against that damage? That doesn't seem like the throw would inflict many wounds then. I mean Jotun can only iflict 2 wounds at most. Most defense can block that easily.

[allskulls]

Or we could just make a separate special ability for characters with Throw powers that would be added to the TNT rules.

Or we could give each object (or most) a throw type ability (with the word throw in the title) and allow the TK types use it from their respective throw ranges.

I'd like to hear the pros and cons to all of these ideas. So far I like this last idea with the only real con being the need to use "throw" in the ability titles. But that may not be to bad. A uniform "THROW <OBJECT>" could work well. Also, the range and attack of the special ability will take care of the objects "light" or "heavy" status in terms of ranged throwers anyway.

[IAmBatman]

Or we could give each object (or most) a throw type ability (with the word throw in the title) and allow the TK types use it from their respective throw ranges.

I'd like to hear the pros and cons to all of these ideas. So far I like this last idea with the only real con being the need to use "throw" in the ability titles. But that may not be to bad. A uniform "THROW <OBJECT>" could work well. Also, the range and attack of the special ability will take care of the objects "light" or "heavy" status in terms of ranged throwers anyway.

I think I like this last one the best so far.
For what we were talking about earlier, though an alternative version of your roll a number of attack dice equal to the wounds on the card that we could consider is rolling a number of attack dice equal to the lift left on the object card (this way it's like whatever part of the object hasn't been destroyed yet is being used to attack a figure). That makes a little more sense to me thematically, and if you get to the object first, you're going to have the benefit of getting a higher attack that might do some damage.
That said, I like a generic Throw special attack on each throwable object card that would correspond with TNT rules on people with throw powers using objects. This way they could easily throw objects designed to be thrown and not use them in melee, leaving that to the Superstrong.

[MacG]

I like this idea too. I already gave everything that I thought could be thrown a throw power. I just gave them names that amused me.

How about a lamppost? I just gave that a range 1 attack. I thought it would be too unwieldy to throw.

[Cigarman]

I took a slightly different tack, paralleling the rules from the one object scenario we got in the Marvel rules.

Liftable objects
These rules are parallel to those in Heroscape Marvel : The Conflict Begins in the final scenario, "Clash on the Streets".

While carrying a liftable object, a figure may only use its normal movement. No Flying, Leaping, Swing Line, Hyper Speed 5, or similar power may be used by the figure carrying the object.

I'd have to disagree with the movement restrictions when carrying objects. You based it on a scenario where the object in question is a gravity generator and the object is to get it off the board. Allowing movement powers would unbalance the scenario, that's why the movement restrictions are there. They really do not fit in with objects that can be added to any scenario. I've seen plenty of comics in which characters with superstrength and flying pick up an object, fly over, and smack someone with it.

Cigarman

[Cigarman]

I like this idea too. I already gave everything that I thought could be thrown a throw power. I just gave them names that amused me.

How about a lamppost? I just gave that a range 1 attack. I thought it would be too unwieldy to throw.

Never seen a "street javilin?!?!
Check my first version of the lamp post earlier in this thread.

Cigarman

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, I think if figures are strong enough to rip a Street Lamp up from the concrete, they're probably strong enough to go Javelin with it. :D

[Annerios]

Now that the SDCC 2007 madness has died down, it would be nice to get back to this:


NAME?

Usable Objects? Combat Objects?

WHO CAN USE IT?
1) Anyone with superstrength can use all items.

Easiest to do. Scenario can allow SS for certain characters (to include classic "scape characters like Dragons, Jotun, etc)

2) There are light and heavy objects. Heavy objects can only be used by ... I don't know how we can quantify this. Allskulls, wasn't this part your baby? Would superstrength and a printed attack of X or more dice do?

Is there really a need for this much detail to implement this? Pros/Cons? Any suggestions? Remember that in most cases with HS it is best to keep it simple. If it is going to bog down gameplay looking up some value, it probably is not needed.

HOW TO USE IT?
A character with Super-strength may lift and use special powers from a liftable object. Place the object on the character’s card and take the card for the object. A figure may only carry one liftable object at a time. While carrying a liftable object, a figure may only use its normal movement. No Flying, Leaping, Swing Line, Hyper Speed 5, or similar power may be used by the figure carrying the object. A figure carrying an object may pass it to an adjacent super-strength figure that you control at the end of any turn. A figure can drop the object on an adjacent space at any time during its turn.

Sounds good. No movement penalty, but a limit on the special movement the figures use.

HOW IT IS DESTROYED?

An object can be targeted instead of the character who is holding it. If so, roll attack and defense normally, using the defense from the object card.

During use:
1) easy way - it's a one-shot
OR
2) damage method - Objects are also often destroyed when used in attacks. When an attack from a destructible object inflicts a wound, place the same number of wounds on the Destructible Object.

Hi, I think this does work. In your example with the orc, isn't only one wound inflicted? Hmm. Guys, what do you think? If I roll 6 skulls and kill an orc grut, didn't I just INFLICT only one wound?

To me, it would seem that the orc only has one life point and would get one wound. The item would still be usable.

We are all used to placing wound markers on items, so the damage method is nothing unusual to ask of a player. The only way this becomes cumbersome is if you have multiples of the same object.

If you have 3 lamposts, you would need 3 cards to keep track of the wounds if every character grabs one and starts swinging. As I learned from the castle battlement destructible object, when you have many of one item, it is better to stick with 1 Life,so you only need 1 card for every single piece as reference. Keep that in mind when debating this one.

DO WE NEED TO ADD DESTRUCTIBLE OBJECT BITS BELOW?
When an object is destroyed, put it and its card out of play normally. A destroyed object will never revive.

I have the revive glyph and I tremble with the idea of playing destructible objects with Homba.

Does the castle gate revive on a D20 roll? Frankly, I have never come across this scenario and had not thought of it. Since they are treated as figures, but are not really figures, my instinct would be to exclude them.

Is there a final consensus on what rules should be added for the telekenetics?


It would be great to put together a small supplement page (part of the TNT book or stand alone like the Optional Flying Rules for HS) for this, if we can get a consensus on these items. This will probably be a great article for the next issue of the Codex as well.

Here is the revised card for the car:

http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Annerios/CarCard.PNG

I have a couple of Marvel sets coming in next week and will be putting up an urban battlefield to hopefully test a bunch of this stuff.

Once we get the rules and items that work well, they can be added to the first page of this thread, so people can find them easily.

[MacG]

Great. Once we hammer the final details out, I'll start updating my cards and stealing yours.

[brickman1444]

These are really cool! You guys are doing a great job with all of these. The throw abilities remind me of the game War of the Monsters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_monsters).

[Annerios]

These are really cool! You guys are doing a great job with all of these. The throw abilities remind me of the game War of the Monsters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_monsters).

That game is a lot of fun. Especially impaling enemies with radio antennas. :twisted:

http://www.nlgaming.com/games/741/Congar%20swing%20water%20tower.jpg

[NecroBlade]

Man, that was a fun game. Too bad I never owned it. :(

[brickman1444]

Man, that was a fun game. Too bad I never owned it. :(

Yeah, I rented it from blockbuster and had a great week. The multiplayer is especially fun.

Oh and I am currently working on a password protection ability for the fortress door for my Frankenstein "wave" and I need some help. Currently it reads:

The Laboratory Door may be opened by figures not on control space 4. To open the door, there must be at least one friendly figure adjacent to control space 1, and control spaces 2 and 3 must be unoccupied. To open the door, roll the 20- sided once for every friendly figure adjacent to control space 1. If you roll a 20, open the door. Tricky or precise figures only need to roll 15 or higher to open the door.

But it doesn't really sound official.

[NecroBlade]

Sounds OK to me. :screwy:

[brickman1444]

Sounds OK to me. :screwy:

But how do you figure out which figures are friendly if the door is technically neutral?

[NecroBlade]

I'd say either let everyone or no one be friendly if the door's neutral, or have an "occupancy" rule for the lab. Something simple like whoever has more figures in the lab is currently friendly to it.

[brickman1444]

I'd say either let everyone or no one be friendly if the door's neutral, or have an "occupancy" rule for the lab. Something simple like whoever has more figures in the lab is currently friendly to it.

That's a great idea but after looking through the original door rules I found that I don't need to use it and I that I was close to sounding official.

After some cleaning up:


The Laboratory Door may be opened by figures not on control space 4. To open the door, there must be at least one figure adjacent to control space 1, and control spaces 2 and 3 must be unoccupied. To open the door, roll the 20-sided die once for every figure adjacent to control space 1 that isn't from the army currently controlling the door. If you roll a 20, open the door. Tricky or precise figures only need to roll 15 or higher to open the door.

[NecroBlade]

The only problem I see is you're rolling for everyone adjacent to the door...but what if they're not on the same team? Why would enemies help each other open the door?

[brickman1444]

The only problem I see is you're rolling for everyone adjacent to the door...but what if they're not on the same team? Why would enemies help each other open the door?

The enemy of my enemy helps me open the door.

[NecroBlade]

Oh, my bad, more careful reading helps. :P

[Manchine]

This is good stuff!

Superstrength levels. Some of these objects are heavier than others and may not be handled as easily with each character. I wish there was an official S levels in place.


I am not the an expert as everyone else but I was thinking that about this. Why not make it a certain number of attack dice to lift heavier object. For example the car you need 6 attack dice.

Just an idea. :mrgreen:

[Lotus]

I am not digging all the way through this thread to be certain a similiar point hasn't been made, but here are the rules for throwable objects that make the most sense. This is basically a rule that is added to the books, like Super Stength.

Thowable - An object that is throwable must have three notations with it, whether it requires Super Strength, A Range, and an Attack Modifier. The modifier is because certain objects would cause more or less damage, a mailbox is not as dangerous as a car. A Mailbox may have a modifier of -2 Attack dice, whereas the car may have a +2 Attack Dice. Then you can list any special information about this item directly below throwable, for example.

Throwable
Super Strength. Range 6. Attack -2.
The Mailbox may not be thrown by Spider-Man as it is destruction of Public Property.

[Taeblewalker]

I have read through all 9 pages of this thread (whew!) and I have seen some great ideas. I humbly offer a few clarifications on some points:


I would reword the car throw from "any two adjacent figures" to "target one figure in range and all adjacent figures also roll defense dice." In other words, treat the car like Explosion of DW9K or Grenade Lob of the AE.


Secondly, someone mentioned that Magneto would use his telekinesis to bring the object to him and then "use his superstrength to throw it." Magneto, if I understand correctly, does not have superstrength. His throw should be purely telekinetic.


Regarding who may pick up and throw an object, I recommend:

Any Huge figure or any figure with the "S" symbol can pick up and throw objects. This does leave out the Dumuteff, but otherwise I think the rest all make sense to everyone. Even Mimring or the new Marro Worm can use their teeth, I think, to toss something.


Finally, the wording on the manhole cover states to place it adjacent to the target if the manhole cover is not destroyed in the attack. What if there is no clear space to do so? Two suggestions: place the cover under a figure (the target or an adjacent figure) or declare it destroyed in the attack.

Thanks to everyone for all of these ideas, and I hope I my contributions are useful.

[Annerios]

I would reword the car throw from "any two adjacent figures" to "target one figure in range and all adjacent figures also roll defense dice." In other words, treat the car like Explosion of DW9K or Grenade Lob of the AE.

How about (in HS-speak):

Range 6. Attack 4.
Instead of a normal attack, any figure with SS adjacent to a car may throw it. Choose a figure to attack. Any figures adjacent to the chosen figure are also affected by the Car Throw Special Attack. You may only use the Car Throw Special Attack if there are two same level unoccupied spaces adjacent to the targeted figure(s). Place the car on the spaces and roll 4 attack dice once for all affected figures, including the car. If the car is destroyed by the attack, remove it from the battlefield.

Regarding who may pick up and throw an object, I recommend:

Any Huge figure or any figure with the "S" symbol can pick up and throw objects. This does leave out the Dumuteff, but otherwise I think the rest all make sense to everyone. Even Mimring or the new Marro Worm can use their teeth, I think, to toss something.

Let's see exactly who it leaves out:

Dund
Marrden Hounds (3)
Deathstalkers (3)
Theracus
Nerak the Glacian Swog Rider
Swog Rider
Templar Cavalry (3)
Tornak
Deathwalker 8000
Deathwalker 9000
Dumutef Guard
Major Q9
Me-Burq-Sa

I don't see any of those characters tossing things around other than perhaps the Dumutef, and even then, since this is a fantasy game, it could easily be said that even though they are good fighters (and bulky) they are not particularly strong.

Another thing to consider is where we place the usage restriction on the card, to save space on the ability text itself. We have plenty of blank space on the left hand side box where they race/class usually go that could easily specify the restriction. That way it can vary per card to reflect the point many are making that different objects should require different strength levels to thrown them.

Any thoughts?

[Taeblewalker]

How about (in HS-speak):

Range 6. Attack 4.
Instead of a normal attack, any figure with SS adjacent to a car may throw it. Choose a figure to attack. Any figures adjacent to the chosen figure are also affected by the Car Throw Special Attack. You may only use the Car Throw Special Attack if there are two same level unoccupied spaces adjacent to the targeted figure(s). Place the car on the spaces and roll 4 attack dice once for all affected figures, including the car. If the car is destroyed by the attack, remove it from the battlefield.


Your wording of the car throw ability really limits its usefulness on maps where figures are clustered or where terrain varies at all. On the other hand, the only way to handle where the car goes when there are not two consecutive spaces on the same level is to have the car destroyed when thrown. I know that you would like another person to throw it again, but I don't know how to resolve the discrepancy.

Regarding who may pick up and throw an object, I recommend:

Any Huge figure or any figure with the "S" symbol can pick up and throw objects. This does leave out the Dumuteff, but otherwise I think the rest all make sense to everyone. Even Mimring or the new Marro Worm can use their teeth, I think, to toss something.

Let's see exactly who it leaves out:

Dund
Marrden Hounds (3)
Deathstalkers (3)
Theracus
Nerak the Glacian Swog Rider
Swog Rider
Templar Cavalry (3)
Tornak
Deathwalker 8000
Deathwalker 9000
Dumutef Guard
Major Q9
Me-Burq-Sa

I don't see any of those characters tossing things around other than perhaps the Dumutef, and even then, since this is a fantasy game, it could easily be said that even though they are good fighters (and bulky) they are not particularly strong.

Agreed. The others are either dog-like creatures or medium size riders on dog-like or horse-like mounts, and are large only by dint of being (or riding) quadrepeds. The Deathwalkers don't even really have hands, as has been mentioned here.

Another thing to consider is where we place the usage restriction on the card, to save space on the ability text itself. We have plenty of blank space on the left hand side box where they race/class usually go that could easily specify the restriction. That way it can vary per card to reflect the point many are making that different objects should require different strength levels to thrown them.

Any thoughts?

I feel that there could be a designation of light vs. heavy, so that Dumuteffs and perhaps Deathwalkers (giving them "hands") could throw about light objects. I don't think that normal figures without SS should be able to throw anything effectively, unless that something is a rock or grenade (which could be included if weapon glyphs are allowed for a ranged attack of 1, range 4).

However, while the "unhanded" huge figures could conceivably throw a heavy object such as a car, etc. with their teeth, I don't think that every large figure (especially dogs and mounts) should be able to fling light objects the same way. The rule could be that bipedal large figures only could throw light objects. Now, if they ever make a large 7 venoc walord, "bipedal" could include "erect stance" even if it does not have two legs.[/quote]

[davidlhsl]

I'm putting together some objects for my city, and I found this thread. Going over most everyone's input, I've gotten a lot of great ideas.

What I'd like to pass along are some ideas I've come up with that I haven't yet seen. Of course, I may have missed someone's contribution, in which case I apologize. But I share these ideas in case one of them might sound interesting to any of you or to weigh any feedback you may offer.

One stat I'll assign to objects is a movement rating. My idea is that picking up objects costs a certain number of movement points at any time during the movement phase. For example, my dumpster would cost 2 movement points to pick up.

This has already been discussed, but I want to highlight it as an important element of the way I plan to implement objects. Once a figure carries an object, that figure loses all special abilities and special attacks (except Super Strength) until the carried object is dropped, thrown, or destroyed. There are many other ideas you folks have offered, but I chose this one as a point for emphasis.

Finally, I intend to assign a cover rating for objects. Since most urban settings are essentially flat, except for buildings, I plan to allow defense bonuses for cover. It works as follows:

An object provides cover to a defending unit if all three of the following conditions exist:
(1) The defender must be adjacent to, and on the same level or lower as, the object.
(2) The attacker must not be adjacent to the object or have its base 10+ higher than the height of both the defending figure and the height of the obstacle.
(3) The LOS between the attacker and defender must cross the space the obstacle occupies.
A defending unit may only select one obstacle to provide cover.

For example, a telephone booth might provide +1 cover. Thus, a defending unit behind and adjacent to a booth would add +1 defense die against a ranged attack from an attacker that is not adjacent to that phone booth.

One of the things I think my cover idea would provide to the rules is to create a strategic decision on whether to use an obstacle as a defense bonus or use it as an offensive weapon.

Anyway, those are some of the hamsters spinning inside my skull.

-David

[Penitus]

Because I am an ex-heroclix player, I have these:
http://www.hillcity-comics.com/games/outdoor_adventure.gif

Hence, I'd like to add in my 2 cents for potential rules for these objects. Eventually, I'll use the templates those have provided to make official looking cards for them. I was just toying around, but here's what I have thus far.

I'd REALLY love some feedback, especially from those already making object rules. PS - A lot of these need reworded very badly.

Dumpster:
· Object – Only a character with Super Strength may pick up, carry, attack with, or otherwise make use of this object. A character may only pick up one object at a time.
· Adjacent Attack – This object may be used to attack an adjacent character, adding +2 to your attack dice.
· Range Attack – This object may be used to attack a character at range 2. Attack dice are rolled as normal (attack dice are not modified).
· Life – infinite
· Indestructible – This object cannot be destroyed. After each use, place the dumpster in a hex adjacent to the character attacked.
· No other powers or abilities can be used in association with this object, although height modifiers apply as normal.

Crate:
· Object – Only a character with Super Strength may pick up, carry, attack with, or otherwise make use of this object. A character may only pick up one object at a time.
· Adjacent Attack - This object may be used to attack an adjacent character, adding +1 to your attack dice.
· Range Attack – This object may be used to attack a character at range 6. Your attack dice are lowered by 1.
· Life: 1
· Destructible – This object takes 1 damage token after each use.
· No other powers or abilities can be used in association with this object, although height modifiers apply as normal.

Mailbox:
· Object – Only a character with Super Strength may pick up, carry, attack with, or otherwise make use of this object. A character may only pick up one object at a time.
· Adjacent Attack - This object may be used to attack an adjacent character, adding +1 to your attack dice.
· Range Attack – This object may be used to attack a character at range 3. Attack dice are rolled as normal (attack dice are not modified).
· Life – 3
· Destructible – This object takes 1 damage token after each use. After each use, place the mailbox in a hex adjacent to the character attacked.
· No other powers or abilities can be used in association with this object, although height modifiers apply as normal.

Light Post:
· Object – Only a character with Super Strength may pick up, carry, attack with, or otherwise make use of this object. A character may only pick up one object at a time.
· Adjacent Attack - This object may be used to attack an adjacent character, adding +1 to your attack dice.
· Swinging Attack – A character using the light post may make an adjacent attack on a character up to 2 hexes away.
· Life – 4
· Destructible – This object takes 1 damage token after each use. After each use, place the light post in a hex adjacent to the character attacked.
No other powers or abilities can be used in association with this object, although height modifiers apply as normal.

[Cigarman]

[quote="Penitus"]Because I am an ex-heroclix player, I have these:
http://www.hillcity-comics.com/games/outdoor_adventure.gif

[quote]

If you bothered to look back a few pages, I already wrote all these up.
Also did the ones in the indoor set as well.

:lol:

Cigarman

[allskulls]

It would be cool if you guys submitted your Destructable Objects to the TNT thread. We can get these things tested and stamped. I think it will be a good way to get a consensus of how a mailbox, dumpster or other items should work in play. For quicker trials we can run the objects separately from the characters and if you are more interested in the objects, you can sign on as a judge.

[GreyOwl]

It's been kind of hard to keep up with this whole thread. Can someone post a final version of the rules for using these objects? Or has it not been finalized yet?

[Penitus]

If I'm not mistaken, there's a few differences between Cigarman's and my object rules, although there's a lot more similarities and I'm more than open to more opinions.

Forthcoming objects this week maybe.

[brunakor]

To people who wanna get Marvelscape. You might wanan rethink about going to walmart, 'cause they dont have anything. I'd recommend Target or toys'r us. As for this custom, wow. We need more destructible objects in marvelscape. It will be soo cool. :D

[Cigarman]

If I'm not mistaken, there's a few differences between Cigarman's and my object rules, although there's a lot more similarities and I'm more than open to more opinions.

Forthcoming objects this week maybe.

Sorry, no time to revise objects this week.

Off to GenCon!

Cigarman :twisted:

[Annerios]

It's been kind of hard to keep up with this whole thread. Can someone post a final version of the rules for using these objects? Or has it not been finalized yet?

Nothing is finalized yet in terms of something that can be added to a TNT rulebook, etc.

I just got my Marvel sets and am hoping to do some playtesting this week, to see what works. I think some of this stuff has to be looked at outside of the theory stage and see how it functions.

[Doc_Savage]

I finally read through (and grabbed all the good bits) and will post up something as a rough draft using the contributions here and some ideas of my own.

My main new idea is to apply the Heroscape sizes to objects. Small, Medium, Large, and Huge. That way we know what Jotun can throw.

I'll post more (or just edit this post) later.

[Doc_Savage]

MELEE OBJECTS
SUPER-COMPLEX V1 RULES
Edited by Doc Savage with input from the Heroscapers Community

Melee Objects will each have their own Army Card, which will list their LIFE, DEFENSE, SIZE, Hit Zone, and any special powers the object may have.

Melee Objects come in the same sizes as Heroscape figures:
SMALL
MEDIUM
LARGE
HUGE

Melee Objects may take up 1 or more spaces.

SMALL Melee Objects can be used by any figure sized Large or above or by any figure with Superstrength.
MEDIUM Melee Objects can be used by any Huge Figure or by any figure with Superstrength.
LARGE and HUGE Melee Objects can only be used by figures with Superstrength.

Additionally figures with powers that move other figures (Throw, Teleport, Carry, etc.) may affect Melee Objects of the same size as the figures that they may affect.

While carrying a Melee Object, a figure may only use its normal movement. No Flying, Leaping, Swing Line, Hyper Speed 5, or similar powers may be used by the figure carrying the object. A figure carrying an object may pass it to an adjacent Superstrength figure that you control at the end of any turn. A figure can drop the object on an adjacent empty space at any time during its turn.

If a figure picks up a Melee Object, place the Melee Object's card in your play area and place the Object on the figure's Army Card.

USING MELEE OBJECTS

You can use Melee Objects in 3 ways. You can use them to boost your adjacent normal attack, you can defend with them or you can throw them.

BASHING YOUR ADJACENT OPPONENT
If you can pick up a Melee Object, you can Bash your opponents adjacent figures with it.

SMALL Melee Objects add 1 die to your attack.
MEDIUM Melee Objects add 1 dice to your attack.
LARGE Melee Objects add 2 dice to your attack.
HUGE Melee Objects add 3 dice to your attack.

CHUCKING CARS
If you can pick up a Melee Object, you can throw it. Place the thrown Melee Object in empty space(s) adjacent to the target. If there are no empty adjacent space and the target(s) of the attack survives, the controller of the figure attacked can move any figures the minimum amount necessary to have everything fit on a space.

SMALL Melee Objects can be thrown a figures strength -1 in spaces.
MEDIUM Melee Objects can be thrown a figures strength - 1 in spaces
LARGE Melee Objects can be thrown a figures strength -2 in spaces.
HUGE Melee Objects can be thrown a figures strength -3 in spaces.

Roll attack dice equal to the distance thrown + the thrown Melee Object's remaining life.

THIS PHONE BOOTH IS MY SHIELD
If a figure is carrying a Melee Object, you may use it to block adjacent normal attacks. If you do this, you must apply any damage to the Melee object first. If it is destroyed, any remaining damage is taken by the carrying figure.

SMALL Melee Objects add 1 die to your defense.
MEDIUM Melee Objects add 1 dice to your defense.
LARGE Melee Objects add 2 dice to your defense.
HUGE Melee Objects add 3 dice to your defense.

MY STREETLIGHT IS BROKEN
Melee Objects take damage in a number of ways.

DEFENDING - As shown above, if your figure uses a Melee Object to block an adjacent normal attack, it takes damage.
ATTACKING - If you Bash a figure with a Melee Object, the Melee Object takes damage equal to the number of wounds inflicted on the attacked figure. If the Melee Object is destroyed, any remaining wounds are NOT placed on the figure carrying the Melee Object.

A Melee Object can be targeted instead of the character who is holding it. If so, roll attack and defense normally, using the defense from the object card.

When an Melee Object is destroyed, put the Object and its card out of play. A destroyed object will never revive.

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

Rules look good Doc. I can't see any problems arising as of now. Now to make some Movable Object Cards.

[Lotus]

Wow Doc, those seem to be about as perfect as can be. They get my rather unofficial stamp.

:STAMP:

[IAmBatman]

MELEE OBJECTS
SMALL Melee Objects can be thrown a figures strength -1 in spaces.
MEDIUM Melee Objects can be thrown a figures strength - 1 in spaces
LARGE Melee Objects can be thrown a figures strength -2 in spaces.
HUGE Melee Objects can be thrown a figures strength -3 in spaces.

I agree, those rules are perfect, easy to understand, seem all encompassing, and are thematically spot on. Great job, Doc!
One small question from me - in the above quote "a figure's strength" is that figure's base attack number, right? I looked for a clarification on that, but couldn't find it anywhere in the text.

[Doc_Savage]

Good eye, Batman.

Yes that should be Attack.

I rushed this out at the end of the day in a hurry.

Anybody else have any suggestions?

[Annerios]

Anybody else have any suggestions?

I'll get back to you after I try them out. I'm going to print them out and see if we can try them this weekend.

[Penitus]

Sorry folks, but I really think those rules are too complex.

[Taeblewalker]

To people who wanna get Marvelscape. You might wanan rethink about going to walmart, 'cause they dont have anything. I'd recommend Target or toys'r us. As for this custom, wow. We need more destructible objects in marvelscape. It will be soo cool. :D

Local Wal-Marts near me have finally been getting them in. Be patient.

As for destructible objects; yes, great work! Giving them size helps codify them immensely. It goes against the canon of not giving destructible objects sizes, but you can just be sure to specify that they cannot be killed by Deadeye Dan, etc.

[Doc_Savage]

Sorry folks, but I really think those rules are too complex.

They really aren't that complex when you break it down for a specific object. All the size mods are the same 1,1,2,3 for whatever you are doing with the object.

My 8 and 10 year old got these right away...

[Penitus]

Sorry folks, but I really think those rules are too complex.

They really aren't that complex when you break it down for a specific object. All the size mods are the same 1,1,2,3 for whatever you are doing with the object.

My 8 and 10 year old got these right away...

Well they're not confusing. I was just hoping for something simpler.

EDIT: I concede. I re-read your rules. I think this makes up for how maybe Spider-Man is not as strong as Hulk.

[Doc_Savage]

Sorry folks, but I really think those rules are too complex.

They really aren't that complex when you break it down for a specific object. All the size mods are the same 1,1,2,3 for whatever you are doing with the object.

My 8 and 10 year old got these right away...

Well they're not confusing. I was just hoping for something simpler.

EDIT: I concede. I re-read your rules. I think this makes up for how maybe Spider-Man is not as strong as Hulk.D

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying these are perfect by any means...

In particular I am concerned with the shield rules unbalancing the game. I will try to get some games in with these...

I'm guessing one thing will be to make sure that there are enough objects that it isn't just a race to see who grabs the bank vault first...

[Doc_Savage]

OK, so I tested the Melee Objects rules and there were some serious omissions and problems.

First of all the rules didn't say how to pick up a Melee Object.

Then they don't say that you should add height modifiers when bashing and throwing.

When defending with a Melee Object, the adding of dice to your own defense dice just isn't working. It makes it too hard to break the objects and drags the game out. One of the cool things about Marvel is the quick battles.

Lastly, I think that Huge objects should have an additional qualifier for picking them up and using them.

The new stuff is in the list below, followed by the Melee Objects we used in our game...

I am not sure about where to put the Melee Objects when a figure is carrying them. We put them on the Army Cards, but I think that it might make more sense to require them to be in an adjacent space(s). That way you can't carry a car up a ladder, etc.

Here is the new version.



MELEE OBJECTS
SUPER-COMPLEX V2 RULES
By the Heroscapers Community
Edited by Doc Savage

Melee Objects will each have their own Army Card, which will list their LIFE, DEFENSE, SIZE, Hit Zone, and any special powers the object may have.

Melee Objects come in the same sizes as Heroscape figures:
SMALL
MEDIUM
LARGE
HUGE

Melee Objects may take up 1 or more spaces.

When a Unique Hero ends its movement adjacent to a Melee Object, instead of attacking it may pick up the Melee Object. Remove the Object from the Battlefield and place the Object on the Army Card of the figure carrying the Object.
OR
When a Unique Hero ends its movement adjacent to a Melee Object, instead of attacking it may pick up the Melee Object. Place the Melee Object's Army Card with the carrying Unique Hero's Army Card. The Melee Object moves with the carrying Hero and when movement ends must be placed in a space(s) adjacent to that Hero.

SMALL Melee Objects can be used by any figure sized Large or above or by any figure with Superstrength.
MEDIUM Melee Objects can be used by any Huge Figure or by any figure with Superstrength.
LARGE Melee Objects can only be used by figures with Superstrength.
HUGE Melee Objects can only be used by figures with Superstrength and an Attack of 6 or higher.

Additionally, figures with powers that move other figures (Throw, Teleport, Carry, etc.) may use Melee Objects of the same size as the figures that they may affect.

While carrying a Melee Object, a figure may only use its normal movement. No Flying, Leaping, Swing Line, Hyper Speed 5, or similar powers may be used by the figure carrying the object. A figure carrying an object may pass it to an adjacent Superstrength figure that you control at the end of any turn. A figure can drop the object on an adjacent empty space at any time during its turn.


USING MELEE OBJECTS

You can use Melee Objects in 3 ways. You can use them to boost your adjacent normal attack, you can defend with them or you can throw them.

BASHING YOUR ADJACENT OPPONENT
If you can pick up a Melee Object, you can use a normal attack to Bash your opponent's adjacent figures with it. The following bonuses are in addition to any normal attack bonuses.

SMALL Melee Objects add 1 die to your attack.
MEDIUM Melee Objects add 1 dice to your attack.
LARGE Melee Objects add 2 dice to your attack.
HUGE Melee Objects add 3 dice to your attack.

CHUCKING CARS
If you can pick up a Melee Object, you can throw it. The Melee Object must be placed adjacent to the attacked figure. If the target was destroyed by the attack, the Melee Object should be placed in the space the target had occupied. If there is no available adjacent space, the Melee Object was destroyed in the attack and is removed from the battlefield.

SMALL Melee Objects can be thrown a figure's Attack number -1 in spaces.
MEDIUM Melee Objects can be thrown a figure's Attack number - 1 in spaces
LARGE Melee Objects can be thrown a figure's Attack number -2 in spaces.
HUGE Melee Objects can be thrown a figure's Attack number -3 in spaces.

Roll Attack Dice equal to the distance thrown + the thrown Melee Object's remaining life.


THIS PHONE BOOTH IS MY SHIELD
If a figure is carrying a Melee Object, you may use it to block adjacent normal attacks. To do this, roll defense dice equal to the Melee Object's Defense. Apply all damage to the Melee object. If it is destroyed, any excess damage is lost.


MY STREETLIGHT IS BROKEN
Melee Objects take damage in a number of ways.

DEFENDING - As shown above, if your figure uses a Melee Object to block an adjacent normal attack, it takes damage.
ATTACKING - If you Bash a figure with a Melee Object, the Melee Object takes damage equal to the number of wounds inflicted on the attacked figure. Do not apply wounds to the attacking Melee Object in excess of the wounds required to destroy the attacked figure (or Melee Object being used by the defending figure.) If the attackers Melee Object is destroyed, any remaining wounds are NOT placed on the figure carrying the Melee Object.
THROWING - If you Throw a Melee Object at a figure, the Melee Object takes damage equal to the number of wounds inflicted on the attacked figure. Do not apply wounds to the attacking Melee Object in excess of the wounds required to destroy the attacked figure (or Melee Object being used by the defending figure.) If the attackers Melee Object is destroyed, any remaining wounds are NOT placed on the figure throwing the Melee Object.


GENERAL RULES
A Melee Object can be targeted instead of the character who is holding it. If so, roll attack and defense normally, using the defense from the object card.

A figure may hold only 1 melee object at a time.

When an Melee Object is destroyed, put the Object and its card out of play. A destroyed object will never revive.




SAMPLE MELEE OBJECTS


CAR -
HUGE
LIFE - 6
DEF - 4

If 4 or more wounds are given to the car from 1 attack, it might explode. Roll the 20 sided die. on a 15 or better the car blows up. All figures within 3 clear sight spaces defend against a 4 dice attack. Roll attack once, each figure rolls their own defense.

I lifted and adapted the following from Cigarman:

MAIL BOX
MEDIUM
Life: 3
Def: 3


CRATE
MEDIUM
Life: 2
Def: 2

Federal Express
Special Attack: Range 8 Attack 3.
Remove object from game after one use.



DUMPSTER
LARGE
Life: 4
Def: 4

TRASHED
Small figures may be trapped inside an upside-down dumpster. Instead of making a normal attack, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 10 or higher, place an adjacent small figure on this card and the dumpster in the space where that Small figure was. On its turn, that trapped figure may only attack the dumpster as long as the dumpster remains. If the dumpster is destroyed or carried, return the trapped figure to the battlefield.



LAMP POST
Life: 5
Def: 3
LARGE

The lampost may be used to attack and defend against figures within 3 spaces as if they were adjacent to the figure carrying the Lamp Post.

Steel Bowtie
Special attack: Range 1
A target successfully hit with this object is wrapped up in it and must remove an unused numbered order marker to remove the Lampost from the figure. The figure may not take a turn as long as the lampost is wrapped around it. The wrapped figure may also not use any special powers and has its defence reduced by 3, but never below 1. Remove object from game after one use.

Special Attack: Street Javelin: Range 8 Attack 4. Remove object from game after one use.

[Ricky007]

Here are some that I just cannot find decent pictures for.

Police Car
Life: 5
Defence: 5
Special Powers: Innocent Enhancement Each Human adjacent to a Police Car receives 1 additional defence dice.
Car Throw Special Attack Range 5, Attack 3. Only a figure with Superstrength adjacent to Police Car can use Car Throw Special Attack. The figure attacked by Car Throw Special Attack rolls one less defence dice. After using Car Throw Special Attack, remove that Police Car from play.

Porche
Life: 5
Defence: 4
Special Powers: Car Throw Special Attack Range 5, Attack 3. Only a figure with Superstrength adjacent to Porche can use Car Throw Special Attack. The figure attacked by Car Throw Special Attack rolls one less defence dice. After using Car Throw Special Attack, remove that Porche from play.

[Doc_Savage]

Here are some that I just cannot find decent pictures for.

Police Car
Life: 5
Defence: 5
Special Powers: Innocent Enhancement Each Human adjacent to a Police Car receives 1 additional defence dice.
Car Throw Special Attack Range 5, Attack 3. Only a figure with Superstrength adjacent to Police Car can use Car Throw Special Attack. The figure attacked by Car Throw Special Attack rolls one less defence dice. After using Car Throw Special Attack, remove that Police Car from play.

Porche
Life: 5
Defence: 4
Special Powers: Car Throw Special Attack Range 5, Attack 3. Only a figure with Superstrength adjacent to Porche can use Car Throw Special Attack. The figure attacked by Car Throw Special Attack rolls one less defence dice. After using Car Throw Special Attack, remove that Porche from play.

Ricky - What do you think of the basic rules for throwing objects in the post just before yours???

[Annerios]

I finally had a chance to play test these rules over the weekend. Here are some comments:

To begin with, the rules do add complexity and slow the game play down a bit. However, they do add more strategy to the game, since figures without normal ranged attacks are now able to be quite deadly with ranged attacks, you can block attacks with objects, etc. There is just more to think about when you are playing. I'm not saying that is a bad thing; it just makes the game different (and more fun, in my opinion).

The rules for who can use the items are simplified and ignore the whole, "but Q9 has no hands or how does Me-burq-sa attack with a fire hydrant?" This is certainly HS like; they simply find a way. Some players may not care for this, however.

Should it perhaps be just heroes instead of unique heroes as to allow the Dumutefs to toss some items?

Most of the time placing the carried object on the figure's card seems more likely. Most items are so large it is not practical to place them next to the figure.

A figure carrying an object may pass it to an adjacent Superstrength figure that you control at the end of any turn.
Any reason for this? Shouldn't it be to any figure that can carry the object per the rules?

The throwing item rules are interesting, but they seem overly complex. There is a lot of math that slows things down and seems un-HS like in terms of simplicity. Also, you can end up with the Hulk tossing a car 8 spaces with an attack of 14. Whoa. I was thinking that it might be best to make the throws special attacks and cap them with a specific range/attack value to simplify matters.

Some photos from the play testing.

http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/Marvel_%286%29.JPG
The Hulk chucks a car at Abomination and inflicts 3 wounds!

http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/Marvel_%288%29.JPG
Abomination tosses a fire hydrant at Cap from a tower, but misses!

One funny thing that happened in the play test was Abomination ripping out that fire hydrant. He then tossed it at a prison guard up on one of the towers and killed him. The hydrant was not destroyed, so Abomination then leapt up to the tower and picked up the hydrant again to use it later against Captain America. It was "toss and re-use" ranged weapons. Very interesting!

Venom picked up the silver car in the photos and was going to toss it, when the Hulk punched the car to pieces and prevented him from doing so!

So much crazy and hilarious stuff goes on. I definitely need to run another long game with many items for testing.

Here is the map I used:

http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/Marvel.jpg

It is a prison break scenario.

When you remove the fire hydrant, remember to place a water tile on the hex where the hydrant was! :lol:

[Doc_Savage]

Cool report Annerios -

Were you using the V2 rules?

Are you keeping the Melee Objects in adjacent spaces to the carrying figure, or are you placing them on the figure's Army Card?

I have no problem with an angry Hulk throwing a car that far, but maybe the damage should be figured differently. Any ideas? Just distance thrown? Just Damage remaining on the Object?

I was keeping it to Unique Heroes to keep it simple... No need to keep track of which Dumutef has the mailbox...

Most of the time placing the carried object on the figure's card seems more likely.

That's why I was keeping it to Unique Heroes... But...

Most items are so large it is not practical to place them next to the figure.

...Part of me says that if there isn't room for that car to be adjacent to the figure, then they shouldn't be able to carry it there. Through a door, on top of the ruin, etc...

I was thinking that it might be best to make the throws special attacks and cap them with a specific range/attack value to simplify matters.

So you would put the throw attack value on the Melee Object Card?

Maybe I am just making this too complicated... But they are called the super complex rules after all... I think that Hulk should be able to throw a car farther than someone else... I figured that throwing range = attack value was too far, so I toned it down.

Should there just be a range for each size object? SMALL - 6 spaces, MEDIUM - 5 spaces, LARGE - 4, HUGE - 3. Something like that?

Again, thanks for the report...

[hex706f726368]

First I'll apologize. I'm the worst kind of contributor to this thread because I haven't read all of it. I did read through doc's rules above though.

I had a thought and felt it should be shared, the group can ignore it and I won't be bothered by that at all. You guys have spent a lot more time on this and have a better feel for what works and what doesn't than I do.

Why not give the destructible objects a move and attack value. Then allow figures to throw destructible objects by exchanging base attack value on their army card for movement on the destructible object's card, and then adding the attack value of the destructible object to their attack.

I'll use the car as an example:
Car:
Move 2
Attack 4

Generic Hero w/Super-Strength:
Attack 4

This hero can throw the car:
Range 2 Attack 7 (base attack of 4-1 + car's attack value of 4)
Range 4 Attack 6 (base attack of 4-2 + car's attack value of 4)
Range 6 Attack 5 (base attack of 4-3 + car's attack value of 4)
Range 8 Attack 4 (base attack of 4-4 + car's attack value of 4)

Then limit what a hero can pick-up based on the size number of the card vs double their base attack dice. If they only have a base attack value of 4, anything larger than 8, they can't pick up.

Shred me. :)

[Annerios]

Were you using the V2 rules?

Yes. I had those in time, thanks!

Are you keeping the Melee Objects in adjacent spaces to the carrying figure, or are you placing them on the figure's Army Card?

I was keeping it to Unique Heroes to keep it simple... No need to keep track of which Dumutef has the mailbox...

That's why I was keeping it to Unique Heroes... But...

...Part of me says that if there isn't room for that car to be adjacent to the figure, then they shouldn't be able to carry it there. Through a door, on top of the ruin, etc...


The point about using the object to determine if they should be able to move there is a good one. Hulk was hauling that silver car around, and it kept getting in the way of movement, so I just put it on his card to get it out of the way. With the fire hydrant I left it, because the visual is useful.
It helps your opponent to see who is carrying what without looking over at the cards.

Well, whether unique or common, I suppose if it is tied to the figure it makes no difference. You know exactly which Dumutef is hauling it.


So you would put the throw attack value on the Melee Object Card?

Yeah. I think that it is important to put as much as possible on the cards, so you can figure most of it out without having to refer to the rules sheet except for quick clarifications. There is plenty of space to play with on those cards.

Maybe I am just making this too complicated... But they are called the super complex rules after all... I think that Hulk should be able to throw a car farther than someone else... I figured that throwing range = attack value was too far, so I toned it down.

I have no problem with an angry Hulk throwing a car that far, but maybe the damage should be figured differently. Any ideas? Just distance thrown? Just Damage remaining on the Object?

Should there just be a range for each size object? SMALL - 6 spaces, MEDIUM - 5 spaces, LARGE - 4, HUGE - 3. Something like that?

I agree about the Hulk and his ability to throw, but then you have guys like Magneto who are not using brute strength to throw, so it is kind of subjective. I think the system certainly works and does make perfect sense, but for HS purposes setting a range and attack value by the size categories integrates everything and makes it simpler. I'd like to see what other people say on the subject. Maybe it is just me and my hatred of math. :P

There are more images of the battlefield I used here:

http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=359394#387916

[NecroBlade]

Perhaps I missed them, but I'm guessing the rules for the manhole covers from the street maps are covered under these destructible object rules?

[Doc_Savage]

The manhole covers will be here the minute you (or someone else) makes the Melee Object Army Card for them!

[IAmBatman]

It'd be nice to see a sample destructible object card done to go with the rules as they're currently set up, so we can all ascertain the best format to use.

[Annerios]

It'd be nice to see a sample destructible object card done to go with the rules as they're currently set up, so we can all ascertain the best format to use.

Here is an object idea using the rules:

http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Annerios/MailboxCard2.PNG

The thrown attack is much simplified as I had suggested, by simply specifying the range and attack value without using the formula.

Should the thrown attacks just be made special attacks, to cap the attack power and make it even simpler?

The usable by section indicates which figures can use it. This one is Superstrength and Huge figures (to accommodate classic HS).

Anything that should be on the cards for these rules that I missed?

[allskulls]

Good stuff over here, guys!

The thrown object attack should have a cap but should not be a special attack. I think abilities like Thorian Speed should not be negated by a mailbox or fire hydrant :wink: Since these are all new custom rules, we could just give "thrown object" abilities the same stipulation as special attacks but have it be considered a normal attack.

As much as I agree that Jotun should be able to lift a lot of these objects I think allowing Huge figures to use these objects will not be too thematic. Imagine Charos or Mimring lifting a car. Or better yet, Grimnak or Q9. And is that Marro worm thing huge? The using objects in battle thing should be left to the superstrength figures.

[Jack o' Blades]

http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/Marvel.jpg

This is a very interesting subject and I plan posting more when I have time, but a quick question.

Where'd you get your card sleeves/covers? :D

[Annerios]

Where'd you get your card sleeves/covers? :D

They are 5X7 photo top loaders purchased cheaply on e-Bay. Mine are cut to the size of the cards.

[Annerios]

The thrown object attack should have a cap but should not be a special attack. I think abilities like Thorian Speed should not be negated by a mailbox or fire hydrant :wink: Since these are all new custom rules, we could just give "thrown object" abilities the same stipulation as special attacks but have it be considered a normal attack.

Good point. There is plenty of space on the ability text area to simply state that the attack is unmodified.

As much as I agree that Jotun should be able to lift a lot of these objects I think allowing Huge figures to use these objects will not be too thematic. Imagine Charos or Mimring lifting a car. Or better yet, Grimnak or Q9. And is that Marro worm thing huge? The using objects in battle thing should be left to the superstrength figures.

I have to disagree on that one. I think that the integration of the two is one of the nicest part of the rules. A dragon could easily bite down on a car and fling it (or could wrap their tail around it). Q9 could have some metal tentacles come out of a hatch to grab the car and fling it. It is a fantasy game, so most of these things can be explained away and keep things simple rules-wise.

The figures included in the Marvel master set are VERY limited and people are naturally going to want to use some of their classic HS stuff for scenarios. Some people will use superhero customs, while others won't bother, so it is nice to allow for that mix and match.

[allskulls]

Good points but how would you explain the Marro Hive chucking a car? I'm sure you probably can but I'd just like to hear it :D

Are there any ideas for non-urban destructable objects that may be used with these rules? I'd like to see Classic Scape maps with some more interactive terrain.

[GreyOwl]

Good points but how would you explain the Marro Hive chucking a car? I'm sure you probably can but I'd just like to hear it :D

I'm sure you could explicitly exclude the Hive in the rules, much like it is excluded from other things.


Are there any ideas for non-urban destructable objects that may be used with these rules? I'd like to see Classic Scape maps with some more interactive terrain.

I'm actually working on some right now - cannon balls, boulders, and large stone blocks that look like remnants of a ruined castle. They're going to be part of a large "siege set" I'm working which will also include figures, rules, and siege engines. I'm still in the process of painting, sculpting, and building. :)

[Annerios]

Good points but how would you explain the Marro Hive chucking a car? I'm sure you probably can but I'd just like to hear it :D

Are there any ideas for non-urban destructable objects that may be used with these rules? I'd like to see Classic Scape maps with some more interactive terrain.

:lol: I guess the real question is how does that Hive attack at all?

I'm guessing something deadly comes out from the swamp water it sits on and gets you. Whatever that is will have to throw the car.

Although, since the Hive is static, I don't see it really using objects much, unless they are used against it first and not destroyed.

This thread came about because of this HS thread:

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=1809&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

There are plenty of ideas there, but not as objects to use for attack. I have dead trees and boulders that could easily be included in cards.

[elf326]

http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/Marvel.jpg

This is a very interesting subject and I plan posting more when I have time, but a quick question.

Where'd you get your card sleeves/covers? :D
Annerios, where'd you get all of the stuff in that battle, I want to try making a huge Marvel scene too. :)

[Annerios]

Annerios, where'd you get all of the stuff in that battle, I want to try making a huge Marvel scene too. :)

It is a mix of items I've had laying around for urban gaming. 1/43 scale cars from Toys r Us, some Megablocks Spiderman bank set accessories, dead trees from an old boardgame, the industrial terrain put together (and which you can find a thread devoted to elsewhere) and some Imaginext toy playset parts.

That is all of the junk I've gathered without putting much thought into it. :D
I'll probably be getting some plastic buildings for use with the game as well.

[elf326]

I've been trying to do the industrial terrain(the ground). I'll post a pic of it later.

[elf326]

Here mine are
http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/normal_custom_industrial_tiles_2.JPG
They look more worn out IMO. They're not nearly as good as yours though. How do you like them.

[Annerios]

Here mine are
http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/normal_custom_industrial_tiles_2.JPG
They look more worn out IMO. They're not nearly as good as yours though. How do you like them.

Very nice. I really enjoy the urban maps after years of fantasy stuff.

I think the biggest difference is that yours are on lighter colored tiles. Putting the gridwork on the dark tiles makes them stand out a bit more.

I need to use some two part epoxy on a few of mine that have popped off to see if that holds the grids in place better. They've held up pretty well so far, but sometimes when building or pulling them apart I hear the sound of the glue cracking a bit when a tile twists.

That cop car looks useful. I need to grab one of those. I saw a good garbage truck and fire truck at Toys R Us too.

[elf326]

Here mine are
http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/normal_custom_industrial_tiles_2.JPG
They look more worn out IMO. They're not nearly as good as yours though. How do you like them.

Very nice. I really enjoy the urban maps after years of fantasy stuff.

I think the biggest difference is that yours are on lighter colored tiles. Putting the gridwork on the dark tiles makes them stand out a bit more.

I need to use some two part epoxy on a few of mine that have popped off to see if that holds the grids in place better. They've held up pretty well so far, but sometimes when building or pulling them apart I hear the sound of the glue cracking a bit when a tile twists.

That cop car looks useful. I need to grab one of those. I saw a good garbage truck and fire truck at Toys R Us too.
Thanks!
Btw, I got the cars at Eckerd.

[peteparkerh]

My first attempt at a destructible object. How are the factors?

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t133/pete_parkerh/StreetlightDestructableObject.jpg

[NecroBlade]

Good job with the street lamp. :up:

[peteparkerh]

Good job with the street lamp. :up:

Thank you Necroblade.

[Bubblyman]

Here mine are
http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/normal_custom_industrial_tiles_2.JPG
They look more worn out IMO. They're not nearly as good as yours though. How do you like them.
I like how you made the road going in different directions and how you detaled the part behind the blockoff.

[TheMedic]

Just a thought on throwing cars and things around. should there be some sort of limit as to what IS possible, even when you take into account the super-strength?

Should there be some sort of possible failure to do something if it's really tough to pick up?

I was thinking of for example a large lorry / truck / van, which perhaps even the Hulk would have to make a couple of attempts to lift.

Would a hero with telekinesis have unlimited lifting ability?

I don't know. :shock:

[crispy66]

For our games involving objects, we assign each object a Mass value, which determines who can pick it up.

Each character has a Strength rating, which is equal to the Attack value on the card. The number is doubled for characters with Superstrength. So, for example, Hulk has a Strength of 12 at start (6x2) which climbs to 22 as he takes hits/gets angry. Captain America has a Strength of 6, Spiderman 8, etc. Tends to work out ok.
We give the average car a Mass of 8. Trees have a Mass of 10. These numbers can be modified to suit bigger/smaller cars or trees.
Characters can throw an object a distance equal to their Strength minus the Mass of the object.

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

I like that way. It is simple and yet effective. Not to say anything less of creating destructable object Army Cards, but for your everyday tree, ruin, battlement, I like crispy's idea.

[IAmBatman]

Those are great ideas for throwing destructible objects, Crispy! I'm really going to consider incorporating those into my own superhero battles.
Plus, if those become commonly accepted, it frees up more space on destructible object cards for special features (like explosions).

Edit: On the issue of supers with telekinesis, it seems like they should either act like characters with superstrength (doubling the attack value) or stronger (tripling or more). Same with Magneto. The problem is in determining what non-superstrong characters would get these powers and to what extent.

[crispy66]

Yeah, telekinesis needs some quantification, but since there are no telekinetics on official cards, there is no standard.

Thanks for the compliments on the ideas. We have been playing with these rules for a few months, and they are a blast. My best compliment so far is one of my regular players who came over after seeing The Hulk movie and said, "Man, through all of those fight scenes I was saying, 'That is just like a Heroscape fight! They are throwing things and knocking each other back and grappling!' That felt good."

It can be frustrating, though, when you still have a chance to win one, and Executioner throws a manhole cover frisbee-style at range 8 or 9 and KO's your last figure as she flies into range.

Other things that need to be dealt with: the effect of how much you are carrying on movement, super leaps, flying and ranged attacks. It got to where as soon as a fight started, everyone scrambled for the nearest tree/car/phone booth (check in a model railroad hobby section) then flew around the map carrying said item. I now have a -1 to Move for something less than half of the max you can carry, 1/2 Move for 1/2 to less than Max, and a Move of 1 and no fly/leap/swing for maximum capacity.

For attacking, anything more than 1/2 of your capacity is a two-handed hold, and you cannot make ranged attacks. Most supers have to do some hand-waving thingie to get their powers to work, even telekinetics. (I've seen the movies.) This keeps dudes like Dr. Doom from flying around with a tree AND blasting you with his killer ranged beams. 'Course, he can still throw the tree at you...

Oh, and when a thrown item hits, roll dice equal to the Mass for the attack.

[IAmBatman]

Of course, Superman could still hit you from range if his hands were full. :-)

[Ugly-Caco]

We used the "car" card in our games. It felt Marvel comics came more alive!

[Puuka]

Has anyone thought of using the Com Dish & News Bot (Heroclix LoSH starter set) and Broken Drone & Generator (Heroclix X-Men Danger Room Starter set)

I see you've put up a pic of the older 3D objects from HC

[Puuka]

Doh, double post. Sorry

[badgermaniac]

xxx

[beaglescape]

you guys seen primevel(the tv series about anomalies), cos at the the start a gorgonopsid throws cars by headbutting them. also the t rex does that in jurrasic park. so i think a dragon or giant insect could do the same. maybe stop some species from doing it.

[badgermaniac]

After playtesting the destructible objects, I decided that although they are very Marvel-ish, they are still too powerful. I wanted them to add flavor, but not be the primary weapons. In general, I thought it took too long to destroy an item. So, I revamped all of my object cards to make them a little more disposable (for lack of a better term). Here are my new versions:

http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk301/badgermaniac/Destructible%20Objects/bench.jpg

http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk301/badgermaniac/Destructible%20Objects/barrel.jpg

http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk301/badgermaniac/Destructible%20Objects/vehicle.jpg

http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk301/badgermaniac/Destructible%20Objects/trashcan.jpg

http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk301/badgermaniac/Destructible%20Objects/trafficlight.jpg

http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk301/badgermaniac/Destructible%20Objects/phonebooth.jpg

http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk301/badgermaniac/Destructible%20Objects/manholecover.jpg

http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk301/badgermaniac/Destructible%20Objects/mailbox.jpg

http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk301/badgermaniac/Destructible%20Objects/hydrant.jpg

http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk301/badgermaniac/Destructible%20Objects/crate.jpg

http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk301/badgermaniac/Destructible%20Objects/clock.jpg

[docweb2004]

Why not just keep it simple with the objects like Heroclix does?

Small and Medium Objects: Can be thrown a maximum of 6 spaces and throw 2 attack die.

Large Objects: Can be thrown a maximum of 4 spaces and throw 4 attack die.

After thrown, defender throws the D20 die, on a roll of 1-10, object is destroyed, on a roll of 11-20, place object on an adjacent, open space to defender.

Since only figures with superhuman strength can throw objects, this way the objects aren't the primary means of attack.