Most underpriced or overpriced figs

[Venandier]

Who can you get the most out of for the least?

Drake- Not being able to be ranged attacked and 6 attack is way too hefty for 110. He should be 125.

Minions- considering the miracles they work, they should worth way more. Give them height, Taelord, Finn, or glyphs and they will decimate anything. Crapload of defense too. They should be 120.

Least out of the most?

Tagawa Samurai- At double the cost of their Izumi friends, and only +1 attack and blood lust, I say 100 points ay the most. Maybe I've just had bad luck w/them.

[Su-Bak-Na]

Userpriced: Krav Maga Agets, Microcorp Agents.

Overpriced: Obsidian Gaurds, because they suck terrabley without lava.

[Venandier]

ya the Microcorps on a waterfall gets pretty bloody-underpriced

[Gambit]

overpriced: tae(c'mon you knew sombody was gonna say it)

OR

underpriced:ralin

OR

a bit of both for each

[Jason]

"Minions- considering the miracles they work, they should worth way more. Give them height, Taelord, Finn, or glyphs and they will decimate anything. "

Give any unit practically Taelord or glyphs and they can dominate. Their slow movement of 4 greatly limits them. I prefer the Sentinels to the Minions (plus head to head the Sentinels beat the Minions slightly more often)

Krav and Raelin are the 2 most underpriced. Drake can go down quickly with only 3 defense.

[Rhydderch]

Krav and Raelin are pretty cheap.

Taelord is too much.
__

The lava minions which were mentioned are a specialty unit: their cost was determined with the assumption that there would be lava, cuz most people will not draft them if there is none.

[shakey_snake]

All figures are balanced except Dund


he sucks all the time.

[reapersaurus]

check out truth's "reworks of official cards" thread for many suggested tweaks and discussion about what cards are overpriced.

Khosumet
Dund
DW8000
DW7000 even worse
Gorillinators
Tornak
Su-Bak-Na
Zettians
Obsidian Guards
Parmenio AND the Sacred Band
Sir Denrick needs a Knight enhancement or lowering of points, when you compare him to Agent Carr

[atmospro]

All figures are balanced except Dund


he sucks all the time.

Unless your opponent drafts an army consisting of all the same commons.
Then he rock the house.

In reality Dund is very usefull in any situation where your opponent has mutiple commons with more than one turn marker on them. For example a 410 point Roman army consisting of:
Marcus
Legionaires x3
Archers x2
Me Burg Sa

Generally speaking Marcus and Me Burg Sa are never going to get a turner marker becuase they can move before any Legion turn. So dunds power can cripple you on any given turn. But more than likely a smart player will alter his plans to circonvent this use of Dund.

The facts are this game is very balanced and that is what drives people crazy. The're is no full proof win every time army. With the amount of combinations available just about everything can be counter in some manor. Conditions such as terrain, goals and special rules play a big part in determining what army you should draft and how units are going to preform.

The only unit I believe is over costed and it was a miss print the design don't want to admit is Tealord, who's stats and powers more fit 100 points

[Jason]

The problem is that people tend to confuse the terms "overpriced" and "situational"

Just because units like Khosumet, Dund, Obsidian Guards, etc are designed for specific situations does not make them overcosted. I am glad that some units are meant to be used more situationally whereas others work in almost any general army. It adds flavor to the game and resembles reality where some things are only good under the right conditions. Some units (like Krug or Syv) work in an army, just because others (Khosumet or Parmenio for example) are only useful when using wolves or Sacred Band does not make them overcosted

[reapersaurus]

The problem is that people tend to confuse the terms "overpriced" and "situational"

Just because units like Khosumet, Dund, Obsidian Guards, etc are designed for specific situations does not make them overcosted. Interesting approach.

I am of the belief that if a unit must have many situations or criteria present before they are worth their points, than that is by definition an overcosted unit.

What I think the designers made the mistake of, is to make these situational units priced at the level they should be at when everything is "their way" (map, opponents, etc) and therefore they are too expensive most of the time - they should have costed them as they should be the majority of the time, and let them be fairly cheap when everything is going their way.

That way, at least they'd be effective and worth drafting when things are set right for them - now, they are barely draftable even when everything is perfect, and a sub-optimal draft the vast majority of the time.

[Agent Minivann]

But then if those situations come up they are horrifically undercosted. Then I think the game starts to be about who drafts first, and "counterdrafting".

[Ch1can0]

for me the most underpriced unit is the marro warriors squad - cheap and with good range. And range always > melee. In my games they always kill more points than their value.

[D-Dyzzle]

i like the Marro warriors and agree with ch1can0. leave one behind the lines in water, send out three to reak havoc. i use to win every game with just them(i'd have NGS 2 but never needed to use him.)

[ultradoug]

complans about Tae for like 2000 pages.
mentions some undercosted unit, I guess. uhh... whatever.

[Buddy Lee]

I'll go out on a limb and say Juton is overpriced. In the games I've played with him he was always taken out before doing a lot of damage with his specials. Usually by my Microcorps agents. They are definately the best buy in the game.

Buddy Lee

[MegadeV]

I'll go out on a limb and say Juton is overpriced. In the games I've played with him he was always taken out before doing a lot of damage with his specials. Usually by my Microcorps agents. They are definately the best buy in the game.

Buddy Lee

I've played with Jotun 5 or 6 times now and every time he has killed his points worth. My brother got to witness the onslaught a couple days ago and was complaining that Jotun was underpriced.

Taelord is probably 30 points overpriced, but that sure doesn't keep him from getting drafted in almost every game I play.

Dund - overpriced, should probably be 80-90

Raelin - underpriced, should probably be 100

[Venandier]

"I'll go out on a limb and say Juton is overpriced. In the games I've played with him he was always taken out before doing a lot of damage with his specials."

I seems a lot of times powerhouses like Charos, Krug, and Jotun get taken quickly because everyone wants to kill them before they go crazy. I've been dissappointed in Krug's play many times.

[wimba808]

I would say Me-Burq-Sa is underpriced. With his ability to stop defense for one figure and then attack from up to 6 spaces away is pretty good. But thats just me.

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

All figures are balanced except Dund


he sucks all the time.

Unless your opponent drafts an army consisting of all the same commons.
Then he rock the house.

In reality Dund is very usefull in any situation where your opponent has mutiple commons with more than one turn marker on them. For example a 410 point Roman army consisting of:
Marcus
Legionaires x3
Archers x2
Me Burg Sa

Generally speaking Marcus and Me Burg Sa are never going to get a turner marker becuase they can move before any Legion turn. So dunds power can cripple you on any given turn. But more than likely a smart player will alter his plans to circonvent this use of Dund.

The facts are this game is very balanced and that is what drives people crazy. The're is no full proof win every time army. With the amount of combinations available just about everything can be counter in some manor. Conditions such as terrain, goals and special rules play a big part in determining what army you should draft and how units are going to preform.


Yep.

Great answer Atmos. It's everything I want to say about Dund, but you've said it way better.

[shakey_snake]

All figures are balanced except Dund


he sucks all the time.

Unless your opponent drafts an army consisting of all the same commons.
Then he rock the house.

In reality Dund is very usefull in any situation where your opponent has mutiple commons with more than one turn marker on them. For example a 410 point Roman army consisting of:
Marcus
Legionaires x3
Archers x2
Me Burg Sa

Generally speaking Marcus and Me Burg Sa are never going to get a turner marker becuase they can move before any Legion turn. So dunds power can cripple you on any given turn. Dund has a 25% chance of landing crippling gaze. That means 75% of the time that you put an order marker on him, it'll be a waste of your time.


So, play the stats.
It takes on average four order markers of yours to negate of 3 order markers of your opponents in a perfect situation (you have initiative, your first marker is on dund).

Sure, maybe this ignores dund's 3 attack, but it also ignores all the order markers necessary to get dund close to your opponent in the first place, especially since he can't gaze after moving.

Dund is worthless. I mean, compare him to Ne-Gok-sa. NGS has more life, more defense and a more potent special, all for 20 less points.

[MBSowards]

Drafting Dund and waiting until the game gets close down the final stretch gives you the upper hand though. When one unit is left, and all the order markers are left on that one unit, Dund can work wonders.

[Aranas]

Dund has a 25% chance of landing crippling gaze. That means 75% of the time that you put an order marker on him, it'll be a waste of your time.


So, play the stats.
It takes on average four order markers of yours to negate of 3 order markers of your opponents in a perfect situation (you have initiative, your first marker is on dund).

Sure, maybe this ignores dund's 3 attack, but it also ignores all the order markers necessary to get dund close to your opponent in the first place, especially since he can't gaze after moving.

Dund is worthless. I mean, compare him to Ne-Gok-sa. NGS has more life, more defense and a more potent special, all for 20 less points.

Excellent analysis Snakey. I do not like Dund and you've just put in words the reason why. I haven't tried your version of Dund yet. Is he fun? (maybe put the link here?)

[Drumline3469]

Dund is my biggest fear in heroscape. I move my cards in waves and usually stack all shields on one card. My friend usually picks him and I have to change my strategy whenever he does this to me. But as far as pricing goes, Krug is underpriced by at least 50, Drake is underpriced by like 10 or 20, the wolves are underpriced by 15, and the Tagawa are overpriced.

[peterm]

I'd say the hounds are underpriced. One of my favorite units to pick, and they usually do pretty well unless I seriously screw up with the defense dice. Great for locking up Grimnak too.

[allskulls]

Underpriced- Krug (140=to Mimring), Krav (120; 10 more than AE and = to Tagawa)

Overpriced- None...if you don't want to pay for the unit, don't!

Just Right- Taelord :wink:

[wimba808]

Mimring is definily over priced. His fireline is a good ability but his stats are terrible ( for a dragon anyway).

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

I'd say the hounds are underpriced. One of my favorite units to pick, and they usually do pretty well unless I seriously screw up with the defense dice. Great for locking up Grimnak too.

I'd say the entire Marro/Wulsinu race is underpriced - okay, Su-Bak-Na is spot on.

The hounds are definitely my favorite melee squad. I fell in love with those suckas as soon as we got our first glimpse of Jandar's Oath at Gencon. I also had it good for the Shaolin Monks when I saw their stats, but they don't pan out as well as the Hounds in battle.

[shakey_snake]

Excellent analysis Snakey. I do not like Dund and you've just put in words the reason why. I haven't tried your version of Dund yet. Is he fun? (maybe put the link here?)
Link (http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=14189#15858)

Yeah, the biggest thing is that I changed Dund so that gaze is a statistical winner, in the best of situations.

He still gets lit up by any other 110 pt melee unit (drake, Alastair, minions, sentinels) but he is much less vunerable to range, and overall worth playing against a bonding army.

[Aranas]

Snakey, there is two version of Dund there (3 and 4 attack dice). Which one do you play with? Have you playtested it?

[gorillanator]

Overpriced
Obsidian Guards- Unless the field is pure molten lava
DW Family- 7k is worth it with a ranged attack
Dund
Gorillanators- The developers gave them such a cool figure too
Valguard
Taelord
Khosumet
Tagawa


Underpriced
4th Massachusetts Line- 90 points at the least
Krug- 120 points is a joke
Me-Burq-Sa- Maybe 70?
Saylind- Giving Syvarris high ground with a d20 roll just isn't fair for 80

[Jason]

Krug is definitely not as underpriced as people are suggesting. Yeah he's good vs expensive Heroes but squads and those with ranged make quick work of him.

[shakey_snake]

Snakey, there is two version of Dund there (3 and 4 attack dice). Which one do you play with? Have you playtested it?thanks. Corrected.


Yes he's been playtested.

The changes bring him from "worthless" status to "situational".

He's still not "solid in all situations" or "asskicker" though.

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

[

Underpriced
4th Massachusetts Line- 90 points at the least
Me-Burq-Sa- Maybe 70?
Saylind- Giving Syvarris high ground with a d20 roll just isn't fair for 80

Yeah. I can agree with these. 4th Mass are definitely game-breakers for that cost.

I think Krug is fine at 120. His defense lets him down time and time again.

[Jason]

Raelin, Krav, and 4th Mas are the 3 most obviously undercosted. I wouldn't mind the AE being 120 but 110 isn't too bad

[gorillanator]

Raelin, Krav, and 4th Mas are the 3 most obviously undercosted. I wouldn't mind the AE being 120 but 110 isn't too bad

I think the AE are fine at 110 because with a little bad luck they may never get onto the field.

I think maybe Raelin and Taelord should both be costed at 120-130.

[feekonea]

how come everyone says khosumet is bad? ok lets think people, khosumet has a relentless attack powerup. hmmmm who has a relentless personality? o YA! THE MINIONS OF UTGAR! ok so lets think, mininons of utgar+taelord +khosumet=365 pts?!?.thats a great armyfor less than 370 pts. add guilty in there and you have a double attack range.Slow movement you say? well not because the MOU and taelord bond! Thats 3 units you could move every 3 turns.

[netherspirit]

how come everyone says khosumet is bad? ok lets think people, khosumet has a relentless attack powerup. hmmmm who has a relentless personality? o YA! THE MINIONS OF UTGAR! ok so lets think, mininons of utgar+taelord +khosumet=365 pts?!?.thats a great armyfor less than 370 pts. add guilty in there and you have a double attack range.Slow movement you say? well not because the MOU and taelord bond! Thats 3 units you could move every 3 turns.

Khosumet would be better if something bonded with him. Without that it takes too much energy and too many turns to get the adjacency required for the bonus. Not to mention the fact that he is fragile with his low life and low defense, so in order to give his bonus he needs to be in the heart of the battle, where he will likely not survive long.

Also, the Minions of Utgar do not have true bonding. Its crappy bonding because it says "instead of taking a turn with the Minions of Utgar" which SUCKS.

[shakey_snake]

Although it's better than nothing...

Anything that messes with the order makers is a pretty powerful tactical tool.

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

how come everyone says khosumet is bad? ok lets think people, khosumet has a relentless attack powerup. hmmmm who has a relentless personality? o YA! THE MINIONS OF UTGAR! ok so lets think, mininons of utgar+taelord +khosumet=365 pts?!?.thats a great armyfor less than 370 pts. add guilty in there and you have a double attack range.Slow movement you say? well not because the MOU and taelord bond! Thats 3 units you could move every 3 turns.

Khosumet would be better if something bonded with him. Without that it takes too much energy and too many turns to get the adjacency required for the bonus. Not to mention the fact that he is fragile with his low life and low defense, so in order to give his bonus he needs to be in the heart of the battle, where he will likely not survive long.
SUCKS.



I believe we'll see the purpose of many underused units become very handy when attacking or defending a fortification like the castles. Khosumet is there to enhance with that darned Fury enhancement. The Relentless bonus is that little something extra when melee close in on the Darklord. He just needs to have some Relentless folks nearby to assist.

[feekonea]

Khosumet would be better if something bonded with him. Without that it takes too much energy and too many turns to get the adjacency required for the bonus. Not to mention the fact that he is fragile with his low life and low defense, so in order to give his bonus he needs to be in the heart of the battle, where he will likely not survive long.

Also, the Minions of Utgar do not have true bonding. Its crappy bonding because it says "instead of taking a turn with the Minions of Utgar" which SUCKS.

are you serious?? aww man that does suck! AGH!!!!!!!!!!! I never ealized that! Man that screws up that whole plan. Gosh darnit I thought it was a good one too.

[netherspirit]

Khosumet would be better if something bonded with him. Without that it takes too much energy and too many turns to get the adjacency required for the bonus. Not to mention the fact that he is fragile with his low life and low defense, so in order to give his bonus he needs to be in the heart of the battle, where he will likely not survive long.

Also, the Minions of Utgar do not have true bonding. Its crappy bonding because it says "instead of taking a turn with the Minions of Utgar" which SUCKS.

are you serious?? aww man that does suck! AGH!!!!!!!!!!! I never ealized that! Man that screws up that whole plan. Gosh darnit I thought it was a good one too.

Generally it helps to actually read the cards ;):P

[shakey_snake]

I believe we'll see the purpose of many underused units become very handy when attacking or defending a fortification like the castles. Khosumet is there to enhance with that darned Fury enhancement. The Relentless bonus is that little something extra when melee close in on the Darklord. He just needs to have some Relentless folks nearby to assist.While I think that sounds like a good proposition, I think all the castles are really going to do is exaggerate the strengths and weaknesses we already see.

I mean, who really needs to "close in" on K? 1 volley from a ranged squad annihilates him.

[LilNewbie]

how come everyone says khosumet is bad? ok lets think people, khosumet has a relentless attack powerup. hmmmm who has a relentless personality? o YA! THE MINIONS OF UTGAR! ok so lets think, mininons of utgar+taelord +khosumet=365 pts?!?.thats a great armyfor less than 370 pts. add guilty in there and you have a double attack range.Slow movement you say? well not because the MOU and taelord bond! Thats 3 units you could move every 3 turns.

I've used Khosumet with 3 squads of wolves and he paid for himself by adding 1 to the 3 1's rolled during the game. Saved 75 points of wolves which in itself is worth it. The wolves dominated that game, btw. Khosumet never left the starting zone. I think he would be better with some sort of bonding since using order markers on him wastes a lot of time and one of the big factors in this game (besides luck of the dice) is order marker management (in fact, it's one of the few things in this game that doesn't depend upon luck but player skill and tactics.)

Newb.

[shakey_snake]

I've used Khosumet with 3 squads of wolves and he paid for himself by adding 1 to the 3 1's rolled during the game. Saved 75 points of wolves which in itself is worth it. Yeah, but how often are you going to roll 3 1's in a game?
I'd have to think that in anything but an all wolf army, You'd be better off with another set of wolves, than with K.

[netherspirit]

I've used Khosumet with 3 squads of wolves and he paid for himself by adding 1 to the 3 1's rolled during the game. Saved 75 points of wolves which in itself is worth it. Yeah, but how often are you going to roll 3 1's in a game?
I'd have to think that in anything but an all wolf army, You'd be better off with another set of wolves, than with K.

25% of the time he will increase a roll to benefit the wolves.

[LilNewbie]

I've used Khosumet with 3 squads of wolves and he paid for himself by adding 1 to the 3 1's rolled during the game. Saved 75 points of wolves which in itself is worth it. Yeah, but how often are you going to roll 3 1's in a game?
I'd have to think that in anything but an all wolf army, You'd be better off with another set of wolves, than with K.

Oh, I'm not saying that K couldn't be better but he does have his uses. With bonding he would be a lot more useful. And I know my luck and 3 1's in a game is actually below average. :D

Newb

[shakey_snake]

I've used Khosumet with 3 squads of wolves and he paid for himself by adding 1 to the 3 1's rolled during the game. Saved 75 points of wolves which in itself is worth it. Yeah, but how often are you going to roll 3 1's in a game?
I'd have to think that in anything but an all wolf army, You'd be better off with another set of wolves, than with K.

25% of the time he will increase a roll to benefit the wolves.true. I always for get there are that many levels with Unleash Fury.

I guess it'd come down ot my opponents army. If he has lots of squads, I'd go with more wolves. If he has lots of high life or high defense heroes, K sounds viable.

[philowar]

The facts are this game is very balanced and that is what drives people crazy. The're is no full proof win every time army.

I disagree 100%. Problem is, certain figures rarely or ever get played because you know they're a tremendous waste of points (Khosumet, Taelord in a small or medium-sized army, to name a couple of the most obvious), and certain armies almost always lose against others. Ever try pitting vipers (both armoc and venoc, but esp. armoc) against Romans or Knights, or a hero-heavy army (say Krug, MacDirk or Drake, and Thorgrim/Finn against Marcus + Legionx4 or even Parmenio + Greeksx4 or Omnicrons and a bunch of Blade Gruts)? You'll lose most every time. Which means people start relying on the best combinations they know of (god, if I hear one more rave about those loathesome Krav Maga...), ignoring crappy or mediocre figures or combinations like Dund, Khosumet, Armocs, or even Tarn Vikings. I know this will be refuted but after some 300+ games played I know it's a big issue.

Certain figures and combinations are simply more powerful than others, and unless you have incredibly lucky rolls, if you are point-even but outmatched you'll lose every time.

[philowar]

I am of the belief that if a unit must have many situations or criteria present before they are worth their points, than that is by definition an overcosted unit.

What I think the designers made the mistake of, is to make these situational units priced at the level they should be at when everything is "their way" (map, opponents, etc) and therefore they are too expensive most of the time

Yes, it's why certain figures never get played. Some units suck without bonding (Parmenio is one of the most flagrant examples), others without other figures that boost their stats or a certain terrain setup that enables them to be worth their points, while others shine all on their own. Yet they are all priced the same. Lame.

[philowar]

While I think that sounds like a good proposition, I think all the castles are really going to do is exaggerate the strengths and weaknesses we already see.

I mean, who really needs to "close in" on K? 1 volley from a ranged squad annihilates him.

You're right. Powerful figures are going to become even more powerful, and weak ones more pathetic than ever.

[gorillanator]

While I think that sounds like a good proposition, I think all the castles are really going to do is exaggerate the strengths and weaknesses we already see.

I mean, who really needs to "close in" on K? 1 volley from a ranged squad annihilates him.

You're right. Powerful figures are going to become even more powerful, and weak ones more pathetic than ever.

That sounds true but I hope you're wrong because I'd like to see armies evened out more with the castles.

But I do think some figures like Jotun might suffer because of the lack of flying and his huge target zone.

[philowar]

Dund has a 25% chance of landing crippling gaze. That means 75% of the time that you put an order marker on him, it'll be a waste of your time.

I feel the same away about most every figure whose claim to fame is its chancy special, without which they would totally suck -- most notably Morsbane, Dund, and Sudema. Under ideal conditions these figures can devastate your opponent's army, though I've seen all of them crap their d20 rolls far more times than they've actually made them.

Do I want to spend 100, 110, or 140 points on a figure that gets one risky shot per turn of taking out or hindering a single squad figure or hero when the turn-marker could be far better spent? Crap, 140 points is two squads of knights, 120 is three squads of blade gruts, etc. For this reason I avoid Sudema, Dund, and Morsbane like the plague unless my opponent and I have specifically decided to play a fun, "who-cares-who-wins" themed army.

[philowar]

Krug- 120 points is a joke

I would secretly have to agree with you. Krug is one of my favorite figures, and I often pit him against my gf's armies with great success, knowing that for 120 points I'm getting a damn steal every time. He's taken out Charos far too many times to count, and even took out Jotun the one time he went up against him. This is to say nothing about the misery he often causes medium and high cost heroes and their squads. Hell, he's possibly the most underpriced figure in the game, but let's stop spreading the word! :)

[jcb231]

Userpriced: Krav Maga Agets, Microcorp Agents.

Overpriced: Obsidian Gaurds, because they suck terrabley without lava.

They do suck without lava, but why would you draft them without lava?

Situational does not equal overcosted, as Jason wisely pointed out.

[philowar]

Krug is definitely not as underpriced as people are suggesting. Yeah he's good vs expensive Heroes but squads and those with ranged make quick work of him.

But squad swarms and good range will make quick worth of anybody, even big boys like Krug, Charos, and Jotun.

[MegadeV]

I wouldn't call Krug underpriced. He rarely kills his points worth in my battles (on my team or my enemy's). It seems that as soon as he has a couple of wounds, he is the only target attacked until he's dead (which doesn't take very long). Sure, he can go toe to toe with some of the other big guys, but he usually gets wasted before getting a chance to use a beefed up wounded smash double attack.

[Jason]

"I disagree 100%. Problem is, certain figures rarely or ever get played because you know they're a tremendous waste of points (Khosumet, Taelord in a small or medium-sized army, to name a couple of the most obvious), and certain armies almost always lose against others. Ever try pitting vipers (both armoc and venoc, but esp. armoc) against Romans or Knights, or a hero-heavy army (say Krug, MacDirk or Drake, and Thorgrim/Finn against Marcus + Legionx4 or even Parmenio + Greeksx4 or Omnicrons and a bunch of Blade Gruts)? You'll lose most every time. Which means people start relying on the best combinations they know of (god, if I hear one more rave about those loathesome Krav Maga...), ignoring crappy or mediocre figures or combinations like Dund, Khosumet, Armocs, or even Tarn Vikings. I know this will be refuted but after some 300+ games played I know it's a big issue.

Certain figures and combinations are simply more powerful than others, and unless you have incredibly lucky rolls, if you are point-even but outmatched you'll lose every time."


You are wrong in thinking there are certain "great combos" No matter what army my opponent has, I could put together a great counter if I was allowed to draft when I knew their army. No unit in the game is impossible to counter. Krug rarely kills anywhere near 120 points in our games. All you have to do is ignore him then get a ranged squad to attack him with 4 dice, after 1-2 rounds Krug will be dead). I totally disagree about Sudema, Sudema only needs a 7 or above to auto kill a squad unit, she isn't only useful vs Heroes. In a 1 on 1 battle Sudema rocks your supposedly super underpriced Krug. Saying Taelord isn't good in 300 point games has nothing to do with him not being good. Some units are better in lower point games, others are better in higher point games. If you find him not drafted then it's probably because you play too low cost of games which is more relating to the group you play with as opposed to the figure being in error. Not every unit has to be good in low cost games

[philowar]

You are wrong in thinking there are certain "great combos" No matter what army my opponent has, I could put together a great counter if I was allowed to draft when I knew their army.

Because you play with range. We don't.

No unit in the game is impossible to counter. Krug rarely kills anywhere near 120 points in our games.

Because you're not playing him well.


All you have to do is ignore him then get a ranged squad to attack him with 4 dice, after 1-2 rounds Krug will be dead).

If you're drafting so carefully to counter your opponent's choices like you say you are, then you wouldn't be letting Krug waltz into enemy fire. You would first neutralize your opponent's ranged threat, then bring in Krug to wreak havoc on the melee units. Like all range 1 figures, Krug is not meant to be used as a pin cushion.


I totally disagree about Sudema, Sudema only needs a 7 or above to auto kill a squad unit, she isn't only useful vs Heroes.

My point being, I'd rather have four attacks with knights, Romans, or even blade gruts in one round against my opponent's squad then ONE attack against ONE enemy squad figure with Sudema.

In a 1 on 1 battle Sudema rocks your supposedly super underpriced Krug.

Oh god. You're kidding, right? One on one? You'd be praying for that 17 or higher which, if you were lucky, you'd get before dying within a round to Krug's double attack, even if he was only attacking with 2 dice.


Anyhow, this whole arguing over a game thing is pretty retarded and I swore I wouldn't get into it, though now I have. The bottom line is you play your games and we play ours, and we both have preferences and prejudices and it's useless for one of us to try to convince the other. You play range, I don't. You mix sci-fi and modern figures (like everyone else on here) with the fantasy and historical guys, which is why you're using Omnicrons or Krav Maga and talking about range or what have you, and we don't. Still, I have dealt with Syvarris and Aubrien archers on many occasions and they're a pain in the ass, though nothing to be terrified of. Range is overrated, in my opinion, unless you're using one of those reach-the-ceiling maps with giant elevation that I loathe to see and avoid like the plague. There is nothing fun or heroic about plucking an opponent's melee guys off at range while they try to charge you, though maybe my way of thinking is as hopelessly outdated as it was for those hapless French knights at Crecy. To each his own.

[Jason]

No unit in the game is impossible to counter. Krug rarely kills anywhere near 120 points in our games.


"Because you're not playing him well. "

More than likely the reason Krug is killing over 120 in your games is because your opponents are not playing well with other units :D


In a 1 on 1 battle Sudema rocks your supposedly super underpriced Krug.


"Oh god. You're kidding, right? One on one? You'd be praying for that 17 or higher which, if you were lucky, you'd get before dying within a round to Krug's double attack, even if he was only attacking with 2 dice"

Try looking at the Heroscape matchup calculator, Sudema kills Krug and it isn't even close.

According to the Calculator in a 1 on 1 Battle Sudema will Kill Krug 61% of the time vs Krug's 38%, it really isn't even close. Not bad for a unit you think is terrible against your supposedly majorly undepriced piece 8) Here is the link to the calculator if you do not believe it :)

http://math.lfc.edu/~yuen/heroscape/matchup.pl