Syvarris: Overpowered?

[Rylore]

I just got through a game with a friend of mine, and Syvarris dominated the map. My friend claims that he is too strong for his point value, stating that being able to move and fire twice in a single turn is ridiculous. I brang up Syvarris' low life and defense, but my friend is still upset by the whole ordeal.

We are at an impass on Syvarris, but I was still curious as to how others feel about him. What are your thoughts? Is the Legolas wannabe overpowered?

P.S. If this subject has been brought up in another thread, I apologize.

[CornPuff]

I would retort that all the other units just aren't powerful enough :-P

Syv is very powerful, but only if you play him smart. A good player will never put Syv in harms way.

[jdtenor]

Tell your friend to draft
Sgt. Drake or Krav Maga
& charge Syvaris works all the time

[Jason]

Yeah let your friend draft Syv then take the Krav and crush him

[Exrod]

I tell you, I think that Heroscape is the only game that I've seen drive people nuts. I had a long gaming party last weekend and 2 of the guys are so po'd at Heroscape that they will not play anymore.

Any unit can dominate, that is the long and short of it. If you draft badly, against an experienced player you will get your butt kicked. I win most of my games in the draft and usually can tell how it's going to play out. I'll have guys draft all melee units, proceed to get mowed down by my ranged army that has taken a height advantage and has a few bruisers out front to slow the targets, and then tell me how the game sucks. Sorry, something sucks here but it isn't the game. I've tried making a set of 8 balanced armies of 500 points before the party to make sure that everyone has a good chance, that seemed to help a bit.

Off the soapbox, exrod...

[Jason]

"I had a long gaming party last weekend and 2 of the guys are so po'd at Heroscape that they will not play anymore"

Why are they so upset with the game? Merely becaus ethey drafted poor armies?

[gorillanator]

I just got through a game with a friend of mine, and Syvarris dominated the map. My friend claims that he is too strong for his point value, stating that being able to move and fire twice in a single turn is ridiculous. I brang up Syvarris' low life and defense, but my friend is still upset by the whole ordeal.

We are at an impass on Syvarris, but I was still curious as to how others feel about him. What are your thoughts? Is the Legolas wannabe overpowered?

P.S. If this subject has been brought up in another thread, I apologize.

They made him powerful but really once you get to him he is toast.
He is easily countered too with Drake the Krav or the EOV and he has low life and defense.

[Aranas]

Syv is powerfull but there is many ways to take him down. I won't repeat the above suggestions but in addition to that you can often swarm him, kill him with range, kill him with big flying dragon with lots of life like Charos, use the summoning glyph to bring him beside a hard hitter (Drake, Carr, ...). Also, the map has a big influence. If your friends are so mad at Syv, build maps for a while that helps melee figs. Use wall, trees and other things that block LOS (Line of Sight).

[Venandier]

Actually, Syvarris' card states that you may only move him once and attack twice from the same space.

[Aranas]

Yes, one move and two attacks.

[Revdyer]

Syvarris is a great hero, there's no doubt about it. But that's the great thing about HS; there are lots of great heroes.

[morbiddrummer]

I love syvarris and he is really powerful if you keep him on high ground and moving from other enemy units. The big weakness is his defense of 2. I had a game last night with my friend and he cornered my syv with Jotun. He went back in my box by the end of the round.

[spacemonkeymafia]

Given the right circumstances and timing any figure can dominate. I owned a map so handly with Guilty that my group hates when he comes on the board. Obviously Guilty is a great steal for 30 points but stack him ability to ability to most figures and he doesn't compare. One game can sometimes label a figure as powergaming due to alot of factors not directly related to the figures actual powers. I've played DW8k enough times to think him useless until the last game I took him for fun and cleaned up 7 kills in 2 rounds. The player proceeded to tell me that he is overpowered, yet I have lost with him time and time again before.

I do see this game really affecting people. Its unfortunate to see people getting really upset by little pieces of plastic but hey- its all in the dice. I think people don't realize how random this game can truly be.

[morbiddrummer]

definetly about the dice. If the good rolls aren't there then better luck next time.

[Su-Bak-Na]

definetly about the dice. If the good rolls aren't there then better luck next time.

Thats something my main game buddy needs to learn, sometimes he complains so much I feel like reaching across the board and slaping him.
But sometimes he doesn't complain untill I killl something of his.

[shakey_snake]

definetly about the dice. If the good rolls aren't there then better luck next time.

Thats something my main game buddy needs to learn, sometimes he complains so much I feel like reaching across the board and slaping him.
But sometimes he doesn't complain untill I killl something of his.
I've got a buddy like that. It seems like he formulates all his strategy and tactics around rolling the dice near perfectly. If he rolls average or slightly below average dice, he cops out: "the dice are screwing me again"

[MBSowards]

Syvarris' bane is the summoning glyph. If you have him on your team, and the other team has the summoning glyph, Syvarris is easily the best target in the game. Followed by Raelin/Kelda.

[Jason]

Syv isn't the Best Target, Taelord is much better to summon

[feekonea]

To answer your question, no he is not overpowered. There are many units that can counter him because of his mediocre life and poor defense.

[MBSowards]

Syv isn't the Best Target, Taelord is much better to summon

Hmm...I hadn't thought about that. I guess mainly because he's on his way to my house now and so I have only seem him in play once or twice with a friend.

[Hahma]

I tell you, I think that Heroscape is the only game that I've seen drive people nuts. I had a long gaming party last weekend and 2 of the guys are so po'd at Heroscape that they will not play anymore.
...

Try playing Strat-O-Matic Hockey. Chairs have been thrown as well as dice. Drinks spilled and pens snapped in half. Oh the frustration, but the game is so great, like Heroscape.

[thebigcurve]

the beauty of HS is that it takes skillful drafting to ensure that one is not pwned by a dominating figure or squad.
In my limited experience the learning curve of what works against what on what sorts of terrain is what makes this such a fun game to play.
Sure its tough sometimes, and I often get beaten badly, but what's the point of playing a game that you always win because its too easy.

Syv is awesome if used correctly, but he can also be awful if one's opponent comes up with a good strategy to neutralize/eliminate him.

[Snotwalker 8000]

yesterday, Syvarris ruled the battlefield against a 400pt army all by himself!

He took out Deadeye Dan, then Theracus, then a full squad of Marrden Hounds, and then, for the coup d'etat, went toe-to-toe against Nilfheim and peppered him with arrows, surviving the encounter with one life left.

I had Braxas and Raelin sitting unused in my starting zone for the entire game.

I still wouldn't say that Syvarris is overpowered, but when the dice are rolling well, he can be a force to fear!!

(in our second game, my friend drafted Syv first off to see if he would do just as well for him, but my squad of Krav Maga squashed him in the first turn of round two without taking any losses... Syv, like any figure, is only dangerous if played well, and if your opponent doesn't draft ranged-resistant figs.)

[netherspirit]

yesterday, Syvarris ruled the battlefield against a 400pt army all by himself!

He took out Deadeye Dan, then Theracus, then a full squad of Marrden Hounds, and then, for the coup d'etat, went toe-to-toe against Nilfheim and peppered him with arrows, surviving the encounter with one life left.

I had Braxas and Raelin sitting unused in my starting zone for the entire game.

I still wouldn't say that Syvarris is overpowered, but when the dice are rolling well, he can be a force to fear!!

(in our second game, my friend drafted Syv first off to see if he would do just as well for him, but my squad of Krav Maga squashed him in the first turn of round two without taking any losses... Syv, like any figure, is only dangerous if played well, and if your opponent doesn't draft ranged-resistant figs.)

Syv is only overpowered if your opponent isn't playing the KMA. Which you just proved. How he took down Nif is beyond me, good dice rolls I guess.

[Snotwalker 8000]

yesterday, Syvarris ruled the battlefield against a 400pt army all by himself!

He took out Deadeye Dan, then Theracus, then a full squad of Marrden Hounds, and then, for the coup d'etat, went toe-to-toe against Nilfheim and peppered him with arrows, surviving the encounter with one life left.

I had Braxas and Raelin sitting unused in my starting zone for the entire game.

I still wouldn't say that Syvarris is overpowered, but when the dice are rolling well, he can be a force to fear!!

(in our second game, my friend drafted Syv first off to see if he would do just as well for him, but my squad of Krav Maga squashed him in the first turn of round two without taking any losses... Syv, like any figure, is only dangerous if played well, and if your opponent doesn't draft ranged-resistant figs.)

Syv is only overpowered if your opponent isn't playing the KMA. Which you just proved. How he took down Nif is beyond me, good dice rolls I guess.

VERY good dice rolls with height advantage. Nilf flying at 6 move/turn is fast, but Syv was still able to get in an unanswered turn of withering fire before Nilf got in range for retaliatory strikes... then emerged unscathed with no damage the first attack due to still having height for extra defense die (and a lot of red blanks helped too!), and then surviving 2nd attack with 1 life left. Syv was was consistently rolling 3 skulls, both when rolling 4 dice with height, and when only rolling 3 skulls when Nilf got on even ground...

Even a big scary dragon falls down hard when getting peppered with 3 skull attacks twice a turn with only 4 defense! 6 wound markers pile up fast.

Raknar's Heros are huge, but not all-powerful...

Just like Syv can be deadly, but he can also turn out to be a paper tiger...

[markwars]

Syv would have needed backup if your opponent had had Sgt. Drake instead of Nilfheim.

[jbbnbsmith]

[quote="Exrod"]I've tried making a set of 8 balanced armies of 500 points before the party to make sure that everyone has a good chance, that seemed to help a bit.
quote]
Yeah, that's an important thing to do when introducing new people to the game. Especially with so many expansion figs available, a new player is not ina good position to make an intelligent draft. It takes most people a few turns of any game to really get the feel for it, and so to have to make game-making or breaking decisions before even the first die is rolled is pretty tough. Premade, balanced armies are, as you stated, quite helpful in such cases.

And as everyone has already said, Syv is best when operating at his full range of 9. But if the enemy gets close, say goodbye.

[ArcBlade]

I typically can't rely on good dice rolls so I like characters like Syv. He was my original favorite character. His range and double attacks give you lots of chances with him to get the good roll and his five movement allows some reasonable mobility. My early drafts almost always included Syvarris, Krav Maga (my favorite squad) and Drake...I still don't think there was a better 310 point team in the original game. If we played a high total game I'd get AE next. Collect range glyph, height and Astrid..its lethal. I played one guy who drafted all melee too and he wasn't too put off because we approached the game as a learning experience and I explained during the game what had happened and why he was getting housed.

Now I feel bad, like a traitor, because with Marvel out now Syv is eclipsed by Iron Man who has good range, a big attack and flight. I still took Syv over Iron-Man tonight though, price considerations.

[Smileyguy521]

Everyone uses the Range resistant characters against Syvarris, but one thing I seem to see people overlook, out of the RotV almost all the 500pt teams I've seen use 400pts of random (well maybe not Random) people and almost all the teams used Syvarris. It's kind of like everyone used him just to even out the playing field.

[FADE]

yesterday, Syvarris ruled the battlefield against a 400pt army all by himself!

He took out Deadeye Dan, then Theracus, then a full squad of Marrden Hounds, and then, for the coup d'etat, went toe-to-toe against Nilfheim and peppered him with arrows, surviving the encounter with one life left.

I had Braxas and Raelin sitting unused in my starting zone for the entire game.

I still wouldn't say that Syvarris is overpowered, but when the dice are rolling well, he can be a force to fear!!

(in our second game, my friend drafted Syv first off to see if he would do just as well for him, but my squad of Krav Maga squashed him in the first turn of round two without taking any losses... Syv, like any figure, is only dangerous if played well, and if your opponent doesn't draft ranged-resistant figs.)

I had to deal with this situation twice.

The first time i had thercus. So when the opponent came at me i just bum rushed him with my flying horse.

The second time Syvarris was by himself. My opponent started taunting me when i was my turn saying i cant hit i cant hit him. So i bum rushed him with Syvarris and killed two of them of the bat. He was pretty mad.



The moral of this story is that even though there are counters you still have to realize there limitations before you start celebrating.

[Jexik]

The first time I used Syvarris, my opponent had Deathwalker 9000, and I couldn't crack his defense for the life of me. I thought that DW9K was overpowered, and that Syvarris was terrible. Since then, Syvarris being terrible has become an accepted fact at our table. I know this thread was started a long time ago, but perhaps I should give him a couple more chances.

[Lank281]

In response to the original post, I never see characters too powerful for their point values, I only see bargains.

[thaddeus p whirl]

In response to the original post, I never see characters too powerful for their point values, I only see bargains.

I think the game is great because there aren't any "broken" figures. Everything appears to be very well-researched and playtested, and everything feels just about right for its point cost. Another thing that helps balance is the luck factor of the dice; one great initiative roll can turn a game around completely, as can a stellar roll or a whiff on the combat dice.

[SVD997]

The first time I used Syvarris, my opponent had Deathwalker 9000, and I couldn't crack his defense for the life of me. I thought that DW9K was overpowered, and that Syvarris was terrible. Since then, Syvarris being terrible has become an accepted fact at our table. I know this thread was started a long time ago, but perhaps I should give him a couple more chances.

Lol, we had the exact opposite happen. We used DW9000 three times, he was killed on the first shot all three times (once by Syvarris actually), and now he seems to be cursed. On the other hand, Syvarris is almost always picked. It comes down to first impressions alot of times.

[Hero Hot Hatch]

Syvarris is a great hero, there's no doubt about it. But that's the great thing about HS; there are lots of great heroes.

I could not agree more. All of them have their weaknesses too. When it comes to Syvarris is the low defense. Syvarris can run and stay out of range, but the map is not endless. Second, you can always take him down with Laglor boosting some Vydar Units with range or fast moving units like the Venoc Vipers, etc.

Also, if your opponent got the last turn of the previous round, but the first turn in the next round, which means that he got two turns in a row, he'll get to you, and when he does, Syvarris is toast.

[Riggler]

Syv is not that bad. But if/when Wave 8 arrives, he's sure to improve with some elf boosting elves.

[IAmBatman]

I think Kyntella Gwyn's sole purpose in life is to boost Syvarris' defense on the cheap.

[Hero Hot Hatch]

I think Kyntella Gwyn's sole purpose in life is to boost Syvarris' defense on the cheap.

Good point. I have not used her yet so I forgot what she was for. Your comment made me look at the card, and I think you hit the nail right on the head. She'll protect him in two ways with the aura's additional defense and with the the fact the attackers might choose to take her down first, giving Syv more time.

If only Ulginesh's future Mind Link would work with all elve heroes, and not only with elve wizards, you could keep this two together and move together in one turn. No wonder Ulginesh specifies elve wizards and not simply elve heroes. I'm dying to find out what those wizards can can do. At least by placing an order marker on Ulginesh, you can move Kyntella where is is most needed, which might be just next to Syvarris.

[killercactus]

She also works well to boost Acolarh's defense, since he normally doesn't need to move much. Now only if he didn't suck...

[Dwarvenwarrior123]

Syv is deadly he is a perfect counter to melee

[gorthan313]

Syv is deadly he is a perfect counter to melee


And this couldn't have gone in Syvarris's book why?

[rednax]

Syv is deadly he is a perfect counter to melee


And this couldn't have gone in Syvarris's book why?

Because it's not for meant for Syvarris' book either. ;)

[Clarissimus]

When this thread was rezzed the first time in 2008 no one whined about it :p

[falls78]

When this thread was rezzed the first time in 2008 no one whined about it :p

One time, when I was four, I got away with stealing candy from a store. I would say that it is a good thing my parents told me not to do this.

[Marro Divider #4]

THREAD NECRO ALERT! THREAD NECRO ALEART!



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[Revdyer]

Personally, I'd rather have this recent stuff here than in the BOOK. But, then, I'm pretty protective of the BOOKs when it comes to the clutter factor.