Destructable terrain and war machines...

[Gidian]

First of all: this thread is about terrain and custom units. I decided to post it in this board and I hope that´s ok. ;)


Some days ago, I was thinking about war machines like trebuchets, canons and other stuff and how to integrate them into Heroscape. They should be stronger than all the other units, but they also need some weaknesses to be not too strong.
I haven´t finalized the rules yet, but they should be played like this:

Range: 0
Move: 0
Attack: 0
Defense: 3-5

The special attack has a range of 8-12 (it´s only a range-weapon) and should be similar to special attacks from Mimrig or Deathwalker 9000 (but stonger) depending on the war machine. It should be strong when attacking over a long distance and weak in close combat.
Reloading the weapons takes a lot of time so after attacking with the war machine you need a turn to reload it (instead of attacking put a "loaded marker" on the army card. You can only have one marker on the card. When attacking with the war machine, remove that marker).

Another benefit: War machines can be used to destruct terrain. Here I would build special terrain with magnets which allow you to really destruct them while playing. Example: A war machine shoots at the top of a rock. If it is successful, the top of the rock falls down, hitting figures which stand around it and blocking the tile(s) for the rest of the game.


At moment it´s just an idea, but destructable terrain might be interesting to bring more atmosphere into the game. For example you could destroy bridges or LOS blocker like walls and other stuff. What do you think?

Btw - this Mageknight conquest pack might be good for the war machines:
>CLICK< (http://cgi.ebay.de/Mage-Knight-Conquest-Pack-neu-OVP_W0QQitemZ270033651595QQihZ017QQcategoryZ13281QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD 1VQQcmdZViewItem)

Greetings from Germany

Gidian

[Annerios]

You should find a lot of interest in this thread (including destructible object cards for various HS terrain pieces):

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=1809

There was a lot of discussion there and some useful cards came out of it.

justjohn has a nice custom card for the catapult in the set you mentioned.

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/66/grutapulttd0.jpg

[TheRealQ]

I like the idea of war machines and think that you are spot on having its attack be limited to a special attack (why should an inanimate object be enhanced by a glyph). After reading your post I have already begun to think of a couple different ways to initiate the attack from the machine. Once I can mentally debate myself I'll repost what I think is a viable solution.

I have to question the destructible terrain concept though. Right now I can't see how it could be easily integrated into game mechanics. It could simply be me but I'm afraid that it would add too much complexity. Consider that most of my games are against kids 10-12.

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

What does Grut Fodder Special Attack do. It has no attack value. All it says is destroy an Orc and that Grutapult cannot attack a figure behind it. There is no attack mentioned other than "3 orcs adjacent to the Gratapult, instead of their normal attack, and the Grutapult was not moved this turn, you may use Grut Fodder Special Attack." It sounds cool, but this card hardly makes sense.

[Annerios]

I have to question the destructible terrain concept though. Right now I can't see how it could be easily integrated into game mechanics. It could simply be me but I'm afraid that it would add too much complexity. Consider that most of my games are against kids 10-12.

It is no more complex than the castle door, so if they can handle that, they should be fine.

http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Annerios/SmallRuinCardNoSize.PNG

That being said, I usually limit it to special scenarios where there is some point to the destruction of the terrain. You usually have to do a lot of damage to destroy terrain objects, so it lends itself to the use of heavy-hitting large and huge figures.

The most useful custom destructible objects I've used are the battlement pieces. Eliminating cover and adding spots for besieging armies to place siege ladders really adds a lot to the game.

[TheRealQ]

Annerios, I have no problems with the simple removal of destroyed objects but Gidian wrote about falling object damage and hex blockage. These are the items that add to the complexity of the game. If the objects destroyed are simply removed then I could easily integrate it.

[Annerios]

What does Grut Fodder Special Attack do. It has no attack value. All it says is destroy an Orc and that Grutapult cannot attack a figure behind it. There is no attack mentioned other than "3 orcs adjacent to the Gratapult, instead of their normal attack, and the Grutapult was not moved this turn, you may use Grut Fodder Special Attack." It sounds cool, but this card hardly makes sense.

The Attack value is 8.

It does look a bit like the 8 is a &, though. :D

[Annerios]

Annerios, I have no problems with the simple removal of destroyed objects but Gidian wrote about falling object damage and hex blockage. These are the items that add to the complexity of the game. If the objects destroyed are simply removed then I could easily integrate it.

It is a little more complex, but workable if the wording is ok.

http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Annerios/SmallBridgeCardnewNoSize.PNG

I would not unleash this stuff on new players, though. :P

[Gidian]

Annerios, I have no problems with the simple removal of destroyed objects but Gidian wrote about falling object damage and hex blockage. These are the items that add to the complexity of the game. If the objects destroyed are simply removed then I could easily integrate it.

Ok, let me show you an example, maybe it helps making clear what I mean:

http://gidian-gelaende.de/Kram/Rock.jpg

I would build a rock similar to this one, but the upper part (crag?) just holds by a magnet.
Example of a gaming situation: Player one moves 3 units next to the rock. Player two shoots with his canon at it. If he rolls a 15 or higher, he hits it and the crag falls down next to the remaining part of the rock. The crag on the picture above has the size of two tiles and player two is allowed to decide, where it hits the ground. Any unit on this tiles is dead, any hero gets 3 wounds and is knocked back on an empty space.
The crag remains on the tiles till the end of the game.


Another example: Imagine a map with a big canyon in the middle. Utgar has to move his big army through this canyon to attack a hidden camp of Jandar. Some brave soldiers of Jandar should stop them untill their reinforcement arrives. Their only chance is to slow down Utgars army by destroying the rocks, making the canyon harder to walk across.
At the beginning of round 6, Sgt. Drake Alexander will arrive with some Knights of Weston to turn the tide - if at least 4 units of Jandar are still allive.

Just two examples how you could integrate the destructable terrain into the games without making it too complex. But as I said: I still have to fix the rules for the terrain and the war machines.

Greetings from Germany

Gidian

[TheRealQ]

Okay, I have been won over. I can see how it could be worded on a card even in Gidian's example. A lot of terrain like this would make for an interesting large scale game. (1000+ point armies using 3 or more Master Sets of land) I am very interested in seeing how this project progresses.

[Daddio]

Yes, I'm with Gidian on the idea of custom terrain that can actually be destroyed.

Some of you guys have posted reasonably simple concepts for destroying existing pieces, like walls, and I think that's easily integrated, if any players like.

But this is also the custom terrain thread, so the people here shouldn't have too much trouble spicing up that idea.

Both directions are very interesting to me. Don't let me get you off topic too much, but it reminds me of the idea of adding weather.

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

What does Grut Fodder Special Attack do. It has no attack value. All it says is destroy an Orc and that Grutapult cannot attack a figure behind it. There is no attack mentioned other than "3 orcs adjacent to the Gratapult, instead of their normal attack, and the Grutapult was not moved this turn, you may use Grut Fodder Special Attack." It sounds cool, but this card hardly makes sense.

The Attack value is 8.

It does look a bit like the 8 is a &, though. :D
Ah.. Got it now, yeah I thought it said Attack & LOS Special.

[D-Know]

I have played a few games where we gave the battlement pieces a life of 2 or 3. We kept track with little stickers on the battlement to indicate the number of hits it had received, and then removed them when destroyed. You can almost see the morale of the castle inhabitants disappear as the battlements go.

[Daddio]

It occurs to me that this whole conversation ought to be broken up into 2 main schools of thought:

1) Custom cards that make existing terrain destructible.

2) Custom terrain that can be literally put into a "destroyed mode"

Ya think?

Anyway, I tried printing the small ruin card that Annerios posted. Looks pretty good on my color printer when I ran it on card stock.

Perhaps if we get the Type 1 concepts done up on cards, Annerios, I could print up a dozen or so. Those could be sent via mail to HeroScapers members. We could do that pretty easily. PM me.

[Annerios]

It occurs to me that this whole conversation ought to be broken up into 2 main schools of thought:

1) Custom cards that make existing terrain destructible.

2) Custom terrain that can be literally put into a "destroyed mode"

Ya think?

Anyway, I tried printing the small ruin card that Annerios posted. Looks pretty good on my color printer when I ran it on card stock.

Perhaps if we get the Type 1 concepts done up on cards, Annerios, I could print up a dozen or so. Those could be sent via mail to HeroScapers members. We could do that pretty easily. PM me.

You can find a bunch of cards that I made along with others at this link, ready for printing:

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=1809

I hope you find those to be useful. I already have mine printed, as I do use them in our games when merited, but I appreciate the offer.

The custom terrain idea (especially involving pieces with magnets) is very cool. I just wanted to throw the thread involving the existing game pieces as destructible objects out there as a starting point for the custom terrain, since many contributed to it and there are some solid concepts in there to work from. For example, the battlement piece cards were kicked around quite a bit (we tried them with multiple life points too and it was clunky) until they were refined into something easy and useful for just about everyone to use.

I look forward to seeing the finished breakaway terrain. Marvel Heroscape is already doing it, so soon we will have a lot more to go on regarding how to tackle it ourselves.

[Aldin]

Welcome to the boards, D-Know!

On behalf of our battlement destroyed and demoralized community I extend to you a laurel and a hearty handshake.

As a new member, you can begin your journey on the path to the fellowship, praise and respect of your Heroscapers peers by checking out this announcement: http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=6970

~Aldin, pondering the impondereable

[Billtog]

~Aldin, pondering the impondereable

Beautiful. It brings a tear to my eye, Aldin. You're so deep.






:D

[Aldin]

Billtog,

Heh - you saw his sig, right? "What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

~Aldin, postulating

[GIR]

Still following you Aldin!

I love the idea of war machines! Maybe a turret!