Big Ol' Monster Battle armies discussion

[HyperactiveSloth]

Since there's a Slugfest army thread going on here, I was surprised not to see a Big Ol' Monster army thread.

Big Ol' Monster Battle
Single elimination with no final. Players bring their own 400 point pre-made army (that MUST include a Large/Huge Unique Hero), Army Cards, dice, Order Markers, Wound Markers, and any special tokens required. Players win by destroying or "gaining control of" their opponent's highest points valued Large/Huge Hero. The top 4 players win prizes


Personally, the first thing I thought of when I saw this was to use Raelin + Kravs + Charos. With 9 life, and Coutnerstrike on a defense of 5, he's one tough bird, no doubt, but with Raelin making that a defense of 7, and the almighty Krav hunting down the opponent's ranged units, this seems like one of the strongest options for this kind of a scenario.

I know there are gonna be a lot of people placing bets on a Q9 army for this kind of situation, but what do you think?

Personally, I think it would be cool if someone decided to take the "or 'gaining control of'" part seriously and tried using Kee-Mo-Shi, Ne-Gok-Sa, and/or Shades as the bulk of their army. I could see two ways to go for that:

Kee-Mo-Shi
Ne-Gok-Sa
Ornak
Me-Burq-Sa
Eldgrim

OR

Shades of Bleakwoode x3
Theracus
Deadeye Dan

With either of the above armies, you basically go full bore at Shackling/Devouring their big guy while your big guy just runs away alot. A galloping 9 (with Eldgrim) or a flying 7 aren't that easy to pin down. It would be risky, but a hell of a lot of fun, don't you think?

That would be the funniest thing ever! Actually, if I were going, I think I've changed my choice to the Ghosts/Gryphon/Cowboy combo. That would rock! :D

[GIR]

Here we go:
Charos 210
Kelda 80
Saylind 80
Eldgrim 30

I've posted armies like this a lot, so you sent out Charos leaving all the others in your starting zone. Kill everything you can and then when he gets around 5-7 wounds bring him back withe Saylind. Kelda heals him and then send him out a gain and keep on repeating. If a figure gets pasted Charos going to kill the kyries use Charos to stop him no matter what. If you can't, use Eldgrim and his Overextand Attack to reach the figure and hopefully slow him down, wound him, or kill him. Put his Spirit on either a kyrie if your sure they would die if they didn't run or Charos to get to where he needs to quicker. Charos could go straight for the larg/huge figure wound him a little and Saylind bring him back, wound him a little and bring him back. At the start of the came, Eldgrim could also go on a suicide mission. That is all.

P.S. I love that army with DED and the Shades.

[Rÿchean]

I think it might be helpful to list the units that actually qualify as a Big Ole Monster for this tournament:

Juton
Braxas
Charos
Subakna
Nilfheim
Mimring
Krug
Q9
Brunak
Theracus
MeBurqSa
DW9K
DW8K
Grimnak
Nerak
Tornak
Dund

---

I have about 20 or so hashed out that I am thinking through.

Here is a simple one:

Nilfheim
Charos

Charos would be the one they have to kill (or take) to get the win since he is more points. Obviously, you use Nilfheim to thin their ranks and maybe take out their big guy. If not, hopefully you got enough to allow Charos a fighting chance.

[Grim]

Jotun + whatever.

Probably wouldn't win, but would have fun trying.

Now, what about the RATS problem? Or more broadly, any of the swarmers. Kind of hard to move B.O.M. around when he's always surrounded by chumps. And that just seems un-fun to me.

Perhaps disallow anything that costs too little? Say, 50 or less?

I know, I know, once you start banning units, you can never stop... but really, it seems to me the rats would make a great addition to any B.O.M. army that has 40 points of room for them.

[Rÿchean]

but really, it seems to me the rats would make a great addition to any B.O.M. army that has 40 points of room for them.

I think this is true of ANY army. With 40 points left, rats are almost always a good edition for that price point regardless of army type.

I do, however, disagree. Units like Nilfhiem & Braxas would not only laugh at the rats as they kill 'em off, they could just fly right over them. Rats will not be any more detrimental to this style of army or tourney than they are to any other.

[gamjuven]

Actually there is a thread for slugfest armies, in fact it is titled slugfest armies, it just got booted to the 2nd page cause nobody was talking in it. here's the link:

http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8607

[HyperactiveSloth]

Since there's a Slugfest army thread going on here, I was surprised not to see a Big Ol' Monster army thread.

Actually there is a thread for slugfest armies, in fact it is titled slugfest armies, it just got booted to the 2nd page cause nobody was talking in it. here's the link:

http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8607
Isn't that what I said? :?

[gamjuven]

You are absolutely correct, I don't know what I was doing. I suppose those mushrooms hit me harder than I thought. And by mushrooms I mean from Super Mario Brothers. Well my vote goes to charos/or subakna and keemoshi for some fun mindshackleness

[Firemaster]

Hmmm.... before I make my army, let's see what, of the list, are actually viable to use. The Deathwalkers are not really a viable choice since because of their 1 life, they are too risky to use. Dund can basically be thrown out, for obvious reasons. Me-Burq-Sa and Theracus though good, can't really be considered the monsters of the army since they are so easy to kill. So, after eliminating the more obvious ones, we are left with:

Jotun
Braxas
Charos
Subakna
Nilfheim
Mimring
Krug
Q9
Brunak
Grimnak
Nerak
Tornak

Those are the more viable ones, but I think Jotun and Brunak can be eliminated as well. Jotun takes up far too many points in a 400 point army which would basically make him alone in the fight. Brunak is more of a support unit that works best against squad figures and in lava maps. I would say he is a little too specialized. I would also contend that unless you are running an army like this:

Su-Bak-Na
Marro Drones*4
Deathreavers

You can eliminate Su-Bak-Na as well, since he really only works with large numbers of drones. This now leaves us with:

Braxas
Charos
Nilfheim
Mimring
Krug
Q9
Grimnak
Nerak
Tornak

These are the ones I consider most viable, and thus will likely be the figures you will see most often. Of those, Krug, Mimring, Grimnak, Nerak, and Tornak are especially usefull since they all have bonding options. So, after all this, here are the armies I might use:

Mimring-150
Swog Rider*2-50
Arrow Gruts*5-200

Tornak-100
Grut Orcs*5-200
KMA-100

Q9-180
KMA-100
Laglor-110

[Rÿchean]

Me-Burq-Sa and Theracus though good, can't really be considered the monsters of the army since they are so easy to kill. MBS and Theracus might be more viable than you think. If you army is composed of decent squads and rats to clog things up it wouldn't be inconceivable that you could protect either of these fast moving units long enough to kill the other player's baddy. I am not saying it is a really good strategy just saying they are not as irrelevant to this tourney variant as they might seem at first glance. (also Nerak is every bit as flimsy as these two)

[Firemaster]

Me-Burq-Sa and Theracus though good, can't really be considered the monsters of the army since they are so easy to kill. MBS and Theracus might be more viable than you think. If you army is composed of decent squads and rats to clog things up it wouldn't be inconceivable that you could protect either of these fast moving units long enough to kill the other player's baddy. I am not saying it is a really good strategy just saying they are not as irrelevant to this tourney variant as they might seem at first glance. (also Nerak is every bit as flimsy as these two)

I suppose that is correct, but that would be best in a regular game. Most armies in this tournament would have fairly sizable defences, and the army styles you are suggesting don't seem like they'd have the room for any heavy hitters.

There is also two big differences between Nerak and Theracus/MBS, is that Nerak has bonding options, and he supports his fellow Orcs.

[HyperactiveSloth]

Me-Burq-Sa and Theracus though good, can't really be considered the monsters of the army since they are so easy to kill. MBS and Theracus might be more viable than you think. If you army is composed of decent squads and rats to clog things up it wouldn't be inconceivable that you could protect either of these fast moving units long enough to kill the other player's baddy. I am not saying it is a really good strategy just saying they are not as irrelevant to this tourney variant as they might seem at first glance. (also Nerak is every bit as flimsy as these two)

I suppose that is correct, but that would be best in a regular game. Most armies in this tournament would have fairly sizable defences, and the army styles you are suggesting don't seem like they'd have the room for any heavy hitters.

There is also two big differences between Nerak and Theracus/MBS, is that Nerak has bonding options, and he supports his fellow Orcs.

I'm not following you here. I actually think Theracus or MBS would be MORE viable for a game like this than Nerak. You say Nerak is good because of his bonding and bonuses, but in order to sue those, you'd have to send him out into battle. If you make Nerak your "Big Guy", all the opponent has to do is kill him and the game's over. Nerak is much more easily pined down than Theracus or MBS, and he's easily killed. What you're saying would make more sense in a normal game, but when the entire game rests on protecting him, it takes away his usefulness because there's no sane way you could send him out with your orcs, which turns the orcs basically into babysitters for Nerak, leaving you with less available offense to keep the enemy at bay, much less fully assault there Big Guy since they've got no support out there. The way I see it, for a bonding/bonusing Big Guy to be viable in this scenario, he would have to MORE durable.
As Rychean said, that doesn't make Theracus/Me-Burq-Sa necessarily good choices, but it does make Nerak a bad choice.

----------
All this does bring up another idea to mind, though. The idea of protectors. I wouldn't be surprised if the Nakitas show up in some armies using there smoke powder on the Big Guy to lessen early game damage to your golden boy. I know most people are tired of Vydar ranged armies, but I'm sure they could definitely make a big mark on this scenario as well.








...and I'd still like to see the "Flying Spirits of the DED"™ army appear in that tourney. :D

[lonewolf]

I'm not following you here. I actually think Theracus or MBS would be MORE viable for a game like this than Nerak. You say Nerak is good because of his bonding and bonuses, but in order to sue those, you'd have to send him out into battle. If you make Nerak your "Big Guy", all the opponent has to do is kill him and the game's over. Nerak is much more easily pined down than Theracus or MBS, and he's easily killed. What you're saying would make more sense in a normal game, but when the entire game rests on protecting him, it takes away his usefulness because there's no sane way you could send him out with your orcs, which turns the orcs basically into babysitters for Nerak, leaving you with less available offense to keep the enemy at bay, much less fully assault there Big Guy since they've got no support out there. The way I see it, for a bonding/bonusing Big Guy to be viable in this scenario, he would have to MORE durable.
As Rychean said, that doesn't make Theracus/Me-Burq-Sa necessarily good choices, but it does make Nerak a bad choice.


The fact that Nerak can disengage will help keep him out of trouble, unlike MBS and Theracus that both can be engaged with rats and held down. That is one reason to choose Nerak over the other two. I wouldn't worry about using the aura at all.

[Rÿchean]

So how cute can you try to be? What is just too silly, too stupid to try in this thing?

Brunak 110
Sudema 140
Theracus 40
Dead Eye 60
WOA 50

lead with Theracus and Sudema for the possible instant kill. Run with Brunak carrying DED as a last resort. Would it work? Probably a bit too reckless.

Theracus 40
DED 60
2xrats 80
Nakita 120
Krav 100

Could you get enough shots off to kill the badun? Could the rats keep everything at bay while you play kill the big guy with your agents?

Nerak 50
5xHeavy Gruts 350

MBS 50
3xRats 120
Nakita 120
Krav 100

These are a bit too cute, but are they really that inconceivable? Perhaps so ;-)

The point is the less expensive guys give you more army options; it gives the flexibilty to field a larger number of units and some effective squads. I am certainly not saying this is the way to go; it is just a thought. The more you spend on a big guy the less support you have to go with that unit.

[HyperactiveSloth]

...anyone care to build a hypothetical army using the Nakitas as bodyguards?

Edit: *reads Rychean's post* Doh! Um, yeah, kinda like that. :P

[Firemaster]

...anyone care to build a hypothetical army using the Nakitas as bodyguards?

All right, I'll give it a shot:

Nilfheim-185
Nakitas-120
Deathreaver*2-80

Nilfheim is the natural choice for this kind of thing since he does not have to move as much to attack. If he does have to move, you can move a couple Nakitas up to the place where you want to move him. The rat's role is fairly obvious.

[TheRealQ]

Q-9 will probably be favored by a lot of players so needs to be considered an objective when figuring your army. I have played Q-9 vs Q-9 and it gets boring rolling and rolling with no progress for either side. As such this makes Q-9 and good choice to defend against Q-9. Counterpoint, Q-9 is not good at killing Q-9 so you need something that can take him out; my favorite for this is Krug. Now I just need the last 100 points filled in. There are a lot of choices for this but I feel like throwing in one of my old favorites, the KMA.

Q-9 180
Krug 120
KMA 100
Total 400

Even if you aren't facing another Q-9, Krug can take down any of the other big boys and Q-9 does more than a fair job of defending against them.

[HyperactiveSloth]

Well, I couldn't sleep last night for some reason so I got out my army cards and decided to figure out what I would bring if I were playing in these tournaments (Big Ol' Monster & Slugfest) which obviously means building from units I actually have. I hate to say it, but the best army I could build uses Q-9. Oddly, though, he's not the Big Guy. My choice for this battle goes like this:

Nilfheim - 185
Q-9 - 180
Eldgrim - 30
Total = 395

The strategy with this army is to send Q-9 out first and let him do his thing. The third order marker for the first round goes on Eldrim who would overextend himself towards whoever is most in need of engaging. Once Eldgrim dies, put him on Nilfheim. Now Nilfheim can either outrun their offense (while fighting back with ice shards when possible) while Q-9 whittles them down, or Nilfheim can take the fight straight to their big guy and duke it out one-on-one (depending on their army, of course).
It may be "cheap", but this is probably the most practical army I've come up with for the scenario.

(My Slugfest army is even more evil... but I'll post it in that thread instead of this one.)

[Messenger]

My pick for Big Monster would be Nilfheim, with Q9 a close second. Why? With 6 life and 4 defense he has decent staying power. He is highly mobile at 6 move + flying, so he can quickly close ranks with ranged threats, and 6 att can dispatch most enemies (not to mention he has one of the best specials, 4att, 3 times).

Here's my army:

185 Nilfheim
110 Airborne Elite
100 Krav

Tactics are simple. Rememeber the objective is to destroy (or shackle) the opponents Large/Huge Hero. Until the AE drop, send the Krav on a suicide sniper mission to take out the opponents biggie (or unusual threats like Dan or Sudema (nice thinking, Rychean :wink: )). Drop the AE far enough from threats and take over where the Krav left off. Focus all fire at the Big. If necessary, Nilfheim flies in for the big finish.

[playa1]

I've seen Nilfy go down pretty fast. I like a Brunak army myself: Brunak + Raelin is a 4 attack/9 defense combo with awesome movement and multiple attack possibility; I prefer the Brunak + Finn for a 5 attack/7 def. combo (perhaps a pretty good Q9 killer).

Of course I've seen Brunak go down pretty quickly as well. I guess Q9 has more staying power by virtue of the 1 extra life and the good range. Brunak has to rush into the thick of battle and that makes him more vulnerable here. Still, I might give Brunak a try:

Brunak
Finn
Samauri Archers x 2
Raelin

Brunak
Raelin
Microcorp Agents x 2

Brunak
Sir Denrick (doesn't boost Bruny, but can be moved into battle to kill enemy large figure)
Knights x2

Brunak
Sir Gilbert (Gives Brunak attack boost/gives knights move boost)
Knights x2
(this one is interesting, since you can move in with Brunak and use his attack, then move the knights who activate Gilbert for another attack -- weak on range, though)

[TheRealQ]

Another army to consider, although probably not seriously, is the mind-warp trio using Kee-Mo-Shi, Ne-Gok-Sa, and Su-Bak-Na. SBN is the big boy and keeps flying away to safety while you seek to mind-trap your opponents big guy with the other two. If all else fails SBN can pound with his high attack.

[BRUNAK]

Mimring,Charos,and Braxas are good! 8)
:utgar: forever

[Rÿchean]

Braxas is 210 points and her special only works on small and medium figures. Braxas doesn't seem that viable in a tournament variant where the object is to kill a Large or Huge figure. Braxas is good for sure, but not so much for this tournament when you know you have to kill a figure that her special doesn't work against. On the other hand, with 8 life and 5 attack she can't be completely discounted.

[Cleon]

I'm gonna play this army at GenCon for B.O.M.B this year:

Charos 210
Cavalry 120
4th. Mass. Line 70

I really like it, but I haven't tried it yet.

[Jexik]

I played Nilfheim+ Charos against just Hulk and Eldgrim for fun the other day and won. Rychean is right I think, it'd be a pretty good combo.

I'd also like doing something like:

Nilfheim
Raelin
3x Reavers

Just strangle your enemy's squads and pick them apart with Nilfheim. Raelin would follow Nilfheim around, not just for the defense boost, but also to be used as bait. They'd feel they need to kill her first, which could help you get in a few good whacks.

[mecha frog]

I've been playing around with some Krug armies. The biggest thing I've noticed is that I've been trying to shield him from attacks. He looses a lot of value when he's not out there smashing things.

[Xaqery]

I just found this thread

Q-9 180
Krug 120
KMA 100
Total 400

This is the army I was thinking of using too.

I really wish I could do
Q9
Jotun

Can we please do 405 points? please?

- Dwight

[Xaqery]

What do you guys thinks about:

Charos
Major Q9
Isamu

or

Q9
Krug
Iskra Esenwein
Rechets of Bogdan

?

- Dwight

[damja]

What do you guys thinks about:

Charos
Major Q9
Isamu

or

Q9
Krug
Iskra Esenwein
Rechets of Bogdan

?

- Dwight
Rechets can be risky as you have to use a turn on Iskra who is a little bit squishy. SOme of the maps are small which could end up having you waste those 50 points on the rechets.

I would considerthis though:
DeD (60)
Theracus (40)
Thorgrim (80)
KoW x2 (140)
Raelin (80)

400 points total. Charge ahead with Knights & Thorgrim using bonding. When they get taken out try to sharpshoot with Dan. Keep flying Theracus around the board as far away from the battle as you can while carrying Raelin. When/if you have to unleash Theracus and Raelin.

[ZBeeblebrox]

I have another Nakita protection army:

Q9 -180
Nakitas - 120
Crixus -90
Isamu -10
___________
400 points

You use the Nakitas as protection for Q9 and Crixus, isamu draws fire and Crixus is used as a second heavy hitter for melee figures.

[damja]

I have another Nakita protection army:

Q9 -180
Nakitas - 120
Crixus -90
Isamu -10
___________
400 points

You use the Nakitas as protection for Q9 and Crixus, isamu draws fire and Crixus is used as a second heavy hitter for melee figures.

Especially when the person using the Nakitas :stupid: rolls 15+ every time you try to engage them!

I also like the use of Crixus here, but would get him out in front with the Nakitas as her is really the only heavy hitter plus his one shield defense can be very effective.

[ZBeeblebrox]

I have another Nakita protection army:

Q9 -180
Nakitas - 120
Crixus -90
Isamu -10
___________
400 points

You use the Nakitas as protection for Q9 and Crixus, isamu draws fire and Crixus is used as a second heavy hitter for melee figures.

Especially when the person using the Nakitas :stupid: rolls 15+ every time you try to engage them!

I also like the use of Crixus here, but would get him out in front with the Nakitas as her is really the only heavy hitter plus his one shield defense can be very effective.

You do have a point, probbally could have played this army a little better :wink:

But I chalk it up to lack of playing time.

[Rÿchean]

Here is a simple one:

Nilfheim
Charos

Charos would be the one they have to kill (or take) to get the win since he is more points. Obviously, you use Nilfheim to thin their ranks and maybe take out their big guy. If not, hopefully you got enough to allow Charos a fighting chance.

Based on the concept above, (double big guys) I used Q9, Nilf, Marcu, and Isamu in route to winning this Gencon event. (props to NWOJedi for talking me out of Eldgrim for Marcu and Isamu instead)

The strategy worked like a charm. The ability to force Q9 at my opponents without having to be concerned that his death would be the end of my game made all the difference. I was able to make very aggressive moves with Q9 that others players who had Q9 could not. His awesome range allowed me to snipe at other types of big guys (Juton, Charos, etc) to soften them up before they got to the show. Also positioning Q9 such that they had to take him out first resulted in wounded baddies if Nilfhiem was required. I only really had to use Nilfhiem in two games. In all the other games the aggressive Q9 prevailed with little help from the dragon.

* toots own horn *

[Grungebob]

It looked to me to be the single most effective army build at the event! Good job Rychean!

[damja]

As soon as I sat down and saw Ry's army I was very impressed. I wish I would have had the chance to play him as I went with Q9, Brunak, Raelin, Isamu and Marcu. It would have been his Q9 versus my Brunak/Raelin then my Q9 vs his Nilf. That would have been fun!

Unfortunately I stopped caring after the first round when I realized this was a 5-hour event and I was up until 4:30 the night before. I let a Krug walk right down the board on me in round 2 and pound on me. I could have easily ignored him and ran Brunak/Raelin down on my opponent's Mimring for the win, but I just did not want to play anymore. I kept attacking Krug to bulid him up, and almost actually killed him before I finally whiffed on a defense roll.

[Rÿchean]

The event was atually over before 2Pm so it only ran about 4 hours. The rounds got shorter as there were quick kills and, of course, less particpants since it was single elmination.