Slow units

[Xargon]

Does anybody else have trouble with Melee units with a movement of four when up against ranged units. For example the romans ( without marcus) and the knights of weston. They just cant get to the action quick enough and can be easily picked off by ranged units.

As far as i know ( im missing wave 3) The slowest range unit with the lowest range is the roman archers ( move 4 range 6). That means that ranged units can always avoid the melee attack by moving backwards

Now I know this isn't always the case becasue map can be small and the ranged units can get cornered but becasue of this reason I avoid the knights and always draft marcus if i pick the romans.

What do you think? Is movement of 4 too slow or is it playable?

[Timotayo]

you cant just youse melee units you have to mix with range the Knights are usefull for protecion of ranged units

[Rhydderch]

If you just play Roman Archers vs Knights, you might run into some trouble. But remember that in a real game you have other squads and heroes on your side. In addition your enemy may have melee figures. So 4 move is pretty slow but definitely not unplayeable. You just have to be creative and draft well =)

Strategy during the game will help too. There is a great variety of terrain and formations you can utilize. If you look in the HS Codex 2 there is an article about trapping units or some such.

[RobWeaver]

As a rule, melee units will get eliminated by ranged units. That's OK. The last great bayonet charge in US history was Pickett's Charge. How was it broken up? Double canister fire and heavy musketry. Only a few hundred of Pickett's 12,000 or so attackers actually reached the hand-to-hand fight at the stone wall. The knights, the vikings, the samurai, and the romans are all excellent units. I regularly draft all of them. But you need to draft ranged units to help them out. I would recommend ranged squads rather than heroes, except for Syvarris maybe, so that you get maximum movement and multiple shots from each turn. Get your ranged guys out front, or on your flanks to take some high ground and begin whittling down your opponent. Take out the high-payoff targets first: other ranged units, flyers. Don't get sucked into a ranged combat fight with the Krav Maga Agents. Don't waste shots on Sgt. Alexander or the Elite Onyx Vipers. Hold your melee boys for the knockout punch when the opponent's firepower has been reduced or eliminated, and you need to ring in a fresh unit, the reserve. Keep those slow-movers on the flats, or on the road if possible. Snag the movement glyph if it's in play. I know this may seem like a tactics 101 post, but unless melee units have sufficient ranged cover, you'll discover what the noble samurai did at Nagashino in 1575: one lowly musketman can take out more than his share of worthy and noble samurai without so much as breaking a nail.

[markwars]

Don't forget some units....for example the Obsidian Guards may be slow, but that 4 defense can sure help while they are making their ponderous charge.

[Fallen Templar]

theres always the movement glyph

[Riggler]

This is just my opinion, but with all the expansions now available, I feel those loveable melee squads that don't have great movement (ie, vipers), some sort of movement enhancement (ie, tarn vikings) or flying (minions) are pretty much useless in any offensive gameplan.

The McDirks, Roman Legion, Izumi Samurai, Knights, Obsidian Guards (when not on a lava map), Sacred Band, Gladiatrons, and Tagawa Samurai will all have it handed to them against an army designed around ranged attacks or rangd special powers.

Half of those listed above do have bonding. But then it is with a melee figure without great speed. With so many options for ranged attacks of some sort available, I just don't see putting together an army together using these units if your only goal is to win the game.

Now, that's not to say I haven't and will not play with these squads because I like to mess around with combinations and try new things. But when I do, I know that I will be hurting my chances of winning going in.

[DoesntCompute]

This is just my opinion, but with all the expansions now available, I feel those loveable melee squads that don't have great movement (ie, vipers), some sort of movement enhancement (ie, tarn vikings) or flying (minions) are pretty much useless in any offensive gameplan.

The McDirks, Roman Legion, Izumi Samurai, Knights, Obsidian Guards (when not on a lava map), Sacred Band, Gladiatrons, and Tagawa Samurai will all have it handed to them against an army designed around ranged attacks or rangd special powers.

Half of those listed above do have bonding. But then it is with a melee figure without great speed. With so many options for ranged attacks of some sort available, I just don't see putting together an army together using these units if your only goal is to win the game.

Now, that's not to say I haven't and will not play with these squads because I like to mess around with combinations and try new things. But when I do, I know that I will be hurting my chances of winning going in.

My opponents have been drafting extremely heavily ranged armies lately. I have been countering with nearly exclusively melee armies. Drake, Finn, Thorgrim, Alister, MacDirk Warriors, and Tagami Samurai has been a common theme for me lately. I have been doing very well. The warriors bond with all of my human champions. Allister can move 10 if you need him to engage with those pesky ranged units. Once the ranged special attacks have been removed from the board, Drake wreaks havoc on ranged units. The samurai are fast enough to close on ranged units.

I have found that I go through a meat grinder as I close. I loose a lot of units and take a lot of wounds as I approach. When I get close, my superiour attack and defense usually turns the tide. I killed all 3 Krav and Taelord in 2 consecutive turns with Allister in the last game.

[Pilgrim]

You can also do things to make the board more friendly for slow melees:

1) Lots of trees and obstacles for cover
2) Good road placement
3) Smaller boards are in general better for the knights, vikings, etc than huge boards.

I'm not saying that it's impossible to play knights on a large board without road, just much harder. I recently built a large 3 player board with a central, high-walled, paved arena with roads going outward in three directions from the arena. I quickly marched the knights on the road into the arena (which provided cover for them) then would send them out on sorties as I had opportunity. Using this method, Sir Dendrick, 3 knights and Concan took down Nelfheim, Ne-Gok-Sa and MQ9 quite handily in a few turns.

[0rbital]

Tactics! You wouldn't expect a bunch of guys with swords in real life to rush across an open plain and get to the ranged guys before they were wiped out. Same thing with Heroscape. Soften them up with flying and ranged units and clean up with your melee units.

[AmishBurrito]

if you have a map with glyphs in the middle (or equidistant from both players) you'll be able to use some melee figs to grab glyphs and then will easily put a hurting on the ranged opponent who stays back

[MBSowards]

To be honest, if the melee units could reach the ranged units then it would take away the point of their being ranged in the first place. The entire point in range is to do damage to someone before they get to you. That's the way it is in real life, and Heroscape does a good job capturing this.

[RobWeaver]

Ranged units rule the battlefield. It's been that way since gunpowder was first employed militarily. That having been said, anyone who allows a heavy melee line to close up the distance with what are essentially lightly armored skirmishers (most ranged units) deserves to have his head handed to him. He needs to make use of both fire and movement. If you let go of the generally superior movement allowance, the battlefield advantage usually goes to the melee player.

[Xargon]

Intresting points. they are all pretty common sense. I guess i wasn't looking at the game in context. Will post a longer reply later

[Oyhedwig]

I was reading the stuff on this topic, and I noticed a user named Pilgrim (Mr. T) mentioned a battlefield he used that has an arena. This really intrigued me and thought that the idea of an arena would be neat. Hey Pilgrim, do you have any pictures of the battlefield with the arena? I would like some ideas for that. Thanks.

[markwars]

In the small games with my son that I play daily I've been experimenting lately with enhanced melee figures. I have to tell you that when my Obsidian Guards were being sheparded by Raelin their 5 Defense was pretty solid against most ranged attacks.

[Marsman]

I don't know whats happerning, but in my games, the ranged and melle are fairly balanced. No one seems to dominate, and knights are a favorite. Then again, I play on 2-4 MS boards with standard order marker rules, but with varying army sizes from 400-950 points. I also have no multiples of commons, so that might be a factor, but I've never had trouble with range dominanace.

Also, do you guys think that using X as the fourth order marker upsets melee vs range and ranged dominance?

[markwars]

Marsman all I can say is that I agree with you. When used correctly melee units and ranged units are about 50-50.

[geddy lifeson]

I see melee being able to stand up well to range as others have said...if used right. One great thing about some of the slow figs is they have good defense. Granted statistically defense doesn't measure up to offense, but ranged attack isn't really as high as melee attack. If you can move your melee figs into position, use terrain to your advantage as well as have some other squads to provide help and the melee can rip range to shreds.

[Revdyer]

I was reading the stuff on this topic, and I noticed a user named Pilgrim (Mr. T) mentioned a battlefield he used that has an arena. This really intrigued me and thought that the idea of an arena would be neat. Hey Pilgrim, do you have any pictures of the battlefield with the arena? I would like some ideas for that. Thanks.

I built this one, calling it "The Arena of Loki."

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h160/Revdyer/3b0757d3.jpg

[RobWeaver]

That's very clever because it seems to have open space in the middle of the map, when in reality there are still lots of heights, cover and glyphs. Nice!

[Revdyer]

Thanks, Rob. Part of what made the map work was using the ruins to create a single "trickle" entrance to the battle area. Most of all, though, I just liked using the bridge parts in that giant hex. You could make a flat arena in there, but it wouldn't be so much fun, I think.

[feekonea]

Thae romans and knights NEED to have a move of 4. If they didnt they would be unstoppable because they bond. Thats the way it should be.