how do you feel about water stacks?

[django]

ive been stacking water for water falls for a long time. i believe your not supposed to but if we stack water and you stand on the stack shouldn't that be the same as if you placed a cup upside down with a fig on it and then poured water on the top and watch it go down the side of the glass.there is land underneath and it would be the same as water running down the side of the mountain right. its seems like this would be excepted by everyone yes-no?

[Agent Minivann]

I will stack water for waterfalls. Tall waterfalls like that look really nice with the sparkly tiles. Same for the lava. With the water fall, standing on top of the stack equates to falling down the falls and results in falling damage potential.

Without the falling rule you would get the paradox of a figure standing on a stack of, say, 12 water tiles on top of a land tile at the bottom terrain level (level 1), so the figure is standing on level 1 while the base is roughly level 7 due to water having zero height. A figure standing on level 2 (or higher up to level 6) could be adjacent with height advantage even though that figure's base is below the other figure's base. Talk about weird.

[cbs42]

Because of the general weirdness described by Agent Minivann, if I want 10-level-high water, I usually make 10 levels of land and put a water tile on top of it. That way, there's no question about the height of a figure's base who is standing on it. The downside is that I don't get as pretty of an effect as someone who stacks water tiles to the same height.

As long as the house rules are clarified to all the players before the game begins, there's no problem with stacking water tiles -- but my group chooses not to.

[Ch1can0]

Don´t know the thread right now, but a user posted a blue strap of paper representing a waterfall. I can be jammed between the water tile on top and the next land tile. Could have some texture on it too, to be more realistic.

I think that´s a nice idea, easy done, the rules stay clear and you don´t "waste" water tiles.

Chicano.

[DarkSpade]

I love the stacked look.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/DrkSpde/waterfalls.jpg

[InfinityMax]

I don't do that. I use water widgets.

http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/10020/raelinsretreatCU.jpg

[AmishBurrito]

where do you get the widgets? and do they match non-sparkly water?

[skyknight]

Imax's solution is the best so far and he makes them Amish with a jigsaw :)

[feekonea]

I always stack water tiles, as long as I make it they same height as when they start coming down, so no controversy happens.

[cavie]

django,
I'll stack when I'm using my changing terrain effects. For example, I'll stack water on molten lava and then when the terrain changes you now have an impassable section that once was passable. Same with ice, you can have the ice stacked on water, then the ice melts, and now it's water, etc.
You can visualize this better at this thread:

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=529

I'm working on taking some digital pictures for this thread soon and I'll post them here too when finished.

[InfinityMax]

The tint on the widgets is pretty close. The blue in the picture is actually paint, but the ones I use now are cast in sparkly blue plastic, so the match is pretty close. I've actually missed some when I took the map apart because I didn't notice they weren't water tiles.

And I used to make these. I made the first ones out of wood, like Skyknight said, but then I started casting them in liquid plastic so I could have more. But my mold is hosed, and I don't need any more, so I don't make them any more.

[shakey_snake]

I don't do that. I use water widgets.

http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgallery/albums/userpics/10020/raelinsretreatCU.jpg

Oh crap...


*waits for Hasbro to give a cease and desist order*

[AgentX-127]

With the water fall, standing on top of the stack equates to falling down the falls and results in falling damage potential.

According to the rules, if you fall into water you don't roll for falling damage. So falling down the waterfall shouldn't result in damage.

[DarkSpade]

*waits for Hasbro to give a cease and desist order*

he's not selling them, so there shouldn't be any problems.

Heck, he's not even trading for them.

[cbs42]

I use IMax's water widgets too.
:D

[shakey_snake]

*waits for Hasbro to give a cease and desist order*

he's not selling them, so there shouldn't be any problems.

Heck, he's not even trading for them.It doesn't matter, it's all his fault.

[K/H_Addict]

i want some water-widgets....sucks that you dont make them anymore.

I dont stack water for one reason: I dont have enough. Enough what? i lack water and patience. oh well...

[InfinityMax]

*waits for Hasbro to give a cease and desist order*

*will have to wait a lot longer, because Hasbro knows I made them, because I offered a set to Rob and Craig.*

*will even have to keep waiting because you can't get them if I don't give them to you, and I haven't ever sold or even traded them.*

*will probably see a C&D for custom units and terrain before you see one for water widgets.*

[toddrew]

With the water fall, standing on top of the stack equates to falling down the falls and results in falling damage potential.

According to the rules, if you fall into water you don't roll for falling damage. So falling down the waterfall shouldn't result in damage.

Not to speak for Mini, but I think he was talking about a houserule specific to the waterfall. Before a game on a map with stacked water, I think we were going to do the same - roll for extreme fall damage (pretty extreme waterfalls :!: ) - but no-one alighted there, so it didn't come up :)

[shakey_snake]

*waits for Hasbro to give a cease and desist order*

*will have to wait a lot longer, because Hasbro knows I made them, because I offered a set to Rob and Craig.*

*will even have to keep waiting because you can't get them if I don't give them to you, and I haven't ever sold or even traded them.*

*will probably see a C&D for custom units and terrain before you see one for water widgets.**waits for Imax to lighten up a little*

*waits for UD to post "its all your fault waterfall guy pic"*

[ArchonShiva]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/DrkSpde/waterfalls.jpgHonestly, considering that partial elevation levels don't exist (everything is either on one level or on the level below), is there any space on this map where it would be a problem to determine height? The top of the stack is the elevation for all intents and purposes, and it's a purely cosmetic effect. If you don't like it, don't use water stacks.

[toddrew]

Honestly, considering that partial elevation levels don't exist (everything is either on one level or on the level below), is there any space on this map where it would be a problem to determine height? The top of the stack is the elevation for all intents and purposes, and it's a purely cosmetic effect. If you don't like it, don't use water stacks.

The houserule that we (sort of) implemented, in practice on this map would've meant that if a figure ended a move, or was placed on, one of the 'waterfall' spaces, the figure would be placed on a water space adjacent to the bottom of the waterfall and suffer any falling damage (which could only happen to a figure of height 4 or less on this map :) )

But without that house rule, yeah, pretty easy to determine that the land spaces adjacent to the top would get height advantage (but not the water spaces just above (of physical height 1/3, if you will) - no advantage there), and the spaces below would be at a disadvantage. No one that I play with would be interpreting the top of the waterfall as '0 height.'

[vernz]

i do stack and make waterfalls also, those water widgets are cool looking

[peterm]

Those widgets are pretty cool. I like how you can put them on any side of the hex. At first glance I thought it was some piece that fit only across the hex, but instead it's a smaller piece you can put anywhere. Nice!

[Revdyer]

I made my first map with water stacks for this week's game. I haven't talked with my group about how we are going to rule about such a hex, so am finding the options here very interesting.

[Su-Bak-Na]

I stack water occasionally, I only stack it on waterfalls.

[DarkSpade]

the way I play, if you're standing at the top of the waterfall hex, you're standing at the edge of the waterfall. Height is counted as if the waterfall was just a normal stack of land tiles.

[ultradoug]

dont go chasing waterstacks.
I also stack them
and lava too

[django]

i think when they say do not stack water they mean like a pure water mountain not water fall. remember the first pics of the castle with the huge land set up? there were stacked lava was that display not made by hasbro?im mean i know no one wants to stand on lava but hey its still a stack right..... A STACK BY HASBRO!?

[quixotequest]

Even if IMax wanted to sell his "water widgets" what's the problem in that? There is no intellectual property being infringed. If he designed the widgets himself and casts them himself it is his intellectual property to do with as he chooses. In marketing them he couldn't use any Hasbro copyrighted materials but the fact his design is compatible with Heroscape doesn't infringe on Hasbro's IP at all.

Moot point, but worth arguing just on principle :D

[D-Dyzzle]

awsome water widgets IMax. :bowdown:

[Su-Bak-Na]

That is how Imax got his title. He has added a lot of cool custumization to he game.

[Agent Minivann]

With the water fall, standing on top of the stack equates to falling down the falls and results in falling damage potential.

According to the rules, if you fall into water you don't roll for falling damage. So falling down the waterfall shouldn't result in damage.

Not to speak for Mini, but I think he was talking about a houserule specific to the waterfall. Before a game on a map with stacked water, I think we were going to do the same - roll for extreme fall damage (pretty extreme waterfalls :!: ) - but no-one alighted there, so it didn't come up :)

Yeah it's basically if you stand there the current pulls you over. Sure according to the rules no damage, but tell that to the people who try to go over Niagra Falls in a barrell.

[dra(gon)]

nice .
sad that "water widgets" are made so hard by InfinityMax.
mybe he can set a bulid plan like his awsome dice tower plan.
i bulid 2 one of papper and tow wooden (god the wooden was hard i bulid it compleat out wood)

and if max made 10000 of that things unpainted ans sold them under a code name "water widgets" some pepole steal than this idea and sold it as watter stacks for heroquest with more win.


so i think that imax do the right hing an idea send with that is in my eyes great , lava, ice, water. if hasbro made such a thing it were great.

but it is a awsome work.

[Roxas]

I think that just stacking water looks fine, personally, i usually don't get enough water to do that, but i think it looks awesome personally

[ArchonShiva]

Yeah it's basically if you stand there the current pulls you over. Sure according to the rules no damage, but tell that to the people who try to go over Niagra Falls in a barrell.Most of Niagara Falls isn't roughly 5 elevations, either. I mean, the highest straight drop on Carravagio's mape on the home page (and I'd consider this a big drop for HS) is about 16 elevations high. Thats 20 feet. With enough physical training to qualify for Valhalla, you shouldn't be hurt by a twenty foot drop into water.

[caravaggio]

nice to see my name being dropped here and there....

obviously i think stacked water looks much better. however, trying to maintain the "water has no height" rule creates really rediculous scenarios. i think the best way to hand this is to say,

"when a figure is standing on water, his height level is determined by finding the nearest horizontally adjecent land hex and subtracting one (1)."

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/5011/p10005846mf.jpg

[ultradoug]

how do you feel about water stacks?


wet.

[-Zim-]

I try to stack water when it doesn't look cheesy or look like it's the only thing I focused on. I only have 2 master sets so trying to make a waterfall just doesn't work. I did one time borrow a friend's set and tried to make one but it kept falling down and I bit one of the pieces. He won't let me use them anymore.

[django]

zim you have to attach the water to the other tiles. :?

[bunjee]

The tint on the widgets is pretty close. The blue in the picture is actually paint, but the ones I use now are cast in sparkly blue plastic, so the match is pretty close. I've actually missed some when I took the map apart because I didn't notice they weren't water tiles.

And I used to make these. I made the first ones out of wood, like Skyknight said, but then I started casting them in liquid plastic so I could have more. But my mold is hosed, and I don't need any more, so I don't make them any more.

He doesn't make them any more because he doesn't love us. Sniffle. I never got any. Sniff.

Waaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!

[kennylibido]

Given that water tiles are not as thick as terrain tiles and that there are significantly fewer water tiles included in the basic set than terrain, has anyone tried painting terrain tiles with a blue that matches the water tiles? It seems that the painted, more plentiful, terrain tiles can be stacked under the original water tiles for the so-called stacking effect. I find the stacks of water tiles to be pleasing to the eye.

[D-Dyzzle]

i just tried stacking water tiles. its pretty cool but i wouldnt do it for a real battle, too complicated. but if i ever make a field just to look at it then i might stack them.

http://upload4.postimage.org/435131/Heroscape001.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/435131/photo_hosting.html)

[InfinityMax]

He doesn't make them any more because he doesn't love us.

Yeah, that and my mold broke.

[Logan_Xavier]

Ugh!!

Stacking water is just so...

ugly.

Looks like floating columns of water, which defy gravity. I don't like the look, and will never use them on my maps. :grumble:

[bunjee]

Ugh!!

Stacking water is just so...

ugly.

Looks like floating columns of water, which defy gravity. I don't like the look, and will never use them on my maps. :grumble:

Hmm, see, I think that a waterfall made up of mostly brown is ugly. In my house the rule stands that the top of the water is assumed to have "solid ground" under it but the stack of water is there for a cascading falls look.

[B376Bishop]

I agree. Waterfalls look way too cool not to use them because of a "rules technicality"...
And it seems to me, the real issue is where the water actually "begins to fall". One could argue that a figure couldn't stand on top of water and it's a real good argument.
Or...
One could say, that the water passes over shallow "ground" and decends over the furthest edge of the water tile, imaginary "so to speak" (sorry for the overuse of my quotations :? )
This way, a strong figure can boldly stand against the current, rushing to attack, and not fall, over the edge unless he (or she or it) jumped. Right?
It's okay, I needed convicing too, and the main idea brought to my attention was, "Hey man, there's a hex there, I can stand there!"
It's all about imagination, wheather it's imagining water falling from the edge of a tile, or an invisible "stack" of tiles with one hex of water at the bottom. I prefer to imagine while I still seeing the tall blue stack.
And if you think that's crazy, ask me about the "figure ducking" rule I had to allow...

And I'm not really a rules bender.

[Revdyer]

Welcome to the forum, Bishop. I hope you'll enjoy the place.

[django]

"water passes over shallow "ground" and decends over the furthest edge of the water tile" "a strong figure can boldly stand against the current, rushing to attack, and not fall, over the edge"

THATS WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT! whats up with teh ducking rule?