HeroScape Automated Battle Rules

[Edge0001]

Ahoy Mateys,

It took me a several good weeks of writing and testing, but I’m finally ready to post!

This PDF contains all you need to play an Automated Battle of HeroScape.
Yup, that’s right – automated. As in one or more armies playing without a player. (And they play pretty decently, I might add).

I’ve been wanting to do one thing since I began playing HeroScape: Play cooperatively.
Not just on teams against one another, but with all of my friends together collaborating against a common enemy. Now that’s fun!

With these rules, you’ll be able to play cooperatively against a massive legion of foes. Or, if you’re feeling anti-social, you can play a solitaire game against a massive legion of foes!

As the soul of HeroScape is fast and fun, I tried very hard to make these rules as uncomplicated as possible, yet still yield a semblance of intelligence. I think it worked out, but I’ll let you guys be the judges of that.

Please, download the document and check it out! I hope you’ll find it as fun to play as I did to make it!

DOWNLOAD RULES HERE (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=14)
DOWNLOAD CARD TEMPLATES HERE (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=17)

[LilNewbie]

Welcome to the Site! Looks very interesting. I'll give them a read over the weekend.

Newb.

[netherspirit]

I deleted your other thread. :) No need for duplicates. Correction, I deleted BOTH your other threads.

[Rhetoric]

Wow. I just took a quick look and am impressed with the amount of work you put into writing up the rules. I'll look forward to reading them this weekend to see how they work.

If these work well, I will be in your debt because I have no one except my 4 year old to play with over the summer.... Thanks for the effort!

[allskulls]

Edge, this looks very nice. Great layout on the rule book.
I will definetely give this a try.

[allskulls]

LA as in Los Angeles or Louisiana?

[shakey_snake]

this sort of reminds me of my newest scenerio.

[Edge0001]

Thanks for the support guys!

Last night I tested a massive 800 versus 500 point game. Two players of 250 points each versus two 400 point automated armies.

All I can say is: Wow what a game! It must have been my rolls, but the automated enemies were downright evil.

It came down to one enemy army (Mimring) versus two of my armies (Sir Dendrick and Knights of Weston). Everytime I'd get close to that dragon, he'd back up and blast the knights with his Fireline. Finally, with a fully healthy Mimring versus a wounded Sir Dendrick and two knights, the beast finally wend down. Shew! It was a nail-biter.

So it seems the more I test the rules, they seem to stand up to play. Although the Checking for Targets might seem tedious, you get into the swing of it pretty rapidly. I find that if each player takes care one enemy army - to roll for their initiative, targeting, and movement - things go much faster.

So, I say again, try things out and let me know what you think!

[bobofett]

This is a really cool idea. :D

[InfinityMax]

The PDF download isn't working for me. I am very interested in these rules, but can't get them to work. Anyone have this who could send it to me via email?

[Doc_Savage]

I'max - this didn't work for me yesterday, but did today.

Edge - I haven't read this over, but on first glance this looks really good. I'll give more feedback later when I've read it over.

Visually, this is a booklet designed to look just like any of the official booklets and Edge did a good job of it.

[bluekitsune13]

I just tried them out for the first time today, and it ended quickly for me. I easily wiped the floor with the automated side, but that's probably because I didn't have enough units. The biggest problem I had was that my enemies would rush up and attack, then the next round all their order markers went to inactive units in the back that just wandered around while their comrades in front got slaughtered. Perhaps a rule where engaged units are given first priority when placing order markers could be developed. Something like roll the 20 sided die if there are any automated units engaged. On a roll of 7 or higher, only the army cards with engaged figures on them are counted when rolling which order marker to put on which card. Although correct me if I'm wrong and overlooked something like that.

[cbs42]

Way to make an entrance, Edge!
Welcome to the community.
:D

This is a very cool idea, and very professional looking. I've been looking for a good way to play solo for when I'm testing out my new custom unit designs. I'm going to give it a try tonight!

[InfinityMax]

See, now I'm just getting jealous. I just tried it again, and still nothing. So I would consider it a huge favor if someone could just email me this file. I would love to have a way to play solo, or team up with my wife, who would not mind playing as much if I didn't beat the **** out of her.

[netherspirit]

emailing to you Imax :)

[Miniature Geek]

I'm emailing them to you now.

[Miniature Geek]

Dang Nether, you're too quick on the draw.

[netherspirit]

Dang Nether, you're too quick on the draw.

Teamwork :)

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/netherspirit/Smilies/chestram2.gif

[Miniature Geek]

Dang Nether, you're too quick on the draw.

Teamwork :)

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/netherspirit/Smilies/chestram2.gif

Warning potentially stupid question ahead...

Am I on your team or you refrencing someone else??? :?

[netherspirit]

Yeah, I was referring to you. We were both on top of hooking IMax up. Teamwork :)

[Miniature Geek]

Yay! I'm on a team :lol:

[K/H_Addict]

i like the looks, and will read them over, well, eventually. if you're lucky, you'll have my feedback by wednesday. I am moving on thursday, so i do not know if i will be on any later this week......

[Edge0001]

Yeah, BlueKitsume, that can happen - especially for supporting units.

I think one rule I'd like to add is this:
When a supporting unit is given an order, but has no target and is already adjacent to their "master" unit - just take the turn with the "master" unit instead.

The scenario in the doc is fairly easy. If you really want a dangerous enemy, give it an additional division.

[InfinityMax]

Thanks Geek and Nether - these look sweet!

Edge, you've really done good work here.

[Malechi]

Looks good! Very professional and well organized from my first overview. Nice touch adding the interal reference links! I can't wait to try it out ...

[allskulls]

Edge- I read through the rules and this is perfect (besides a few spelling errors). I would suggest making some marching order cards for PDF download. Might need 1 for each army with the specials and attack type and just make the orders on separate cards. I could do it if you like (might take a while with my schedule)...or Malechi?

[Malechi]

I'm up for more cards if needed, but have only scanned the rules so far ...

:D

[bunjee]

woohoo! solitaire heroscape.

I'm going to print these out on the duplex color tomorrow (shhhh, don't tell work) and try them out soon.

Looks great at first scan.

[Edge0001]

Hey Allskulls and Malechi,

I posted an editable word doc that should make imputing any additional army data much easier (and prettier).

To make them work like I imagine, you'll need some paper clips. Once you print and cut these out, place a clip on the right of the card showing what Marching Orders they have.

For Sweep or Meander marching orders, attach a token to the paperclip (orienting it in the desired direction).

For Support marching orders, place a second paperclip on the lower number track. Place another clip on the "master" card on the corresponding number. (One glance will tell you who is being supported!)

For Guard or Patrol marching orders, the paperclip on the lower number track is used for corresponding guard positions or patrol paths specified in the scenario.

So there you have it. Enjoy!

[cbs42]

When evaluating this, I think everyone needs to remember that no set of static rules is going to be able to best a skilled player. That's why the enemy needs 25%-50% more points. These rules are not going to win any tournaments -- it's just a cool way to not have to put too much thought into moving the enemy side.

It looks like it will be great for scenarios (like the ones listed at the back of the pdf), and for early testing of new custom units.

I'm actually looking forward to creating scenarios for use with these rules. I may end up having more fun developing them than playing them!
:D

[allskulls]

Hey Allskulls and Malechi,

I posted an editable word doc that should make imputing any additional army data much easier (and prettier).

To make them work like I imagine, you'll need some paper clips. Once you print and cut these out, place a clip on the right of the card showing what Marching Orders they have.

For Sweep or Meander marching orders, attach a token to the paperclip (orienting it in the desired direction).

For Support marching orders, place a second paperclip on the lower number track. Place another clip on the "master" card on the corresponding number. (One glance will tell you who is being supported!)

For Guard or Patrol marching orders, the paperclip on the lower number track is used for corresponding guard positions or patrol paths specified in the scenario.

So there you have it. Enjoy!
Beautiful! I will print today and maybe add some more this week sometime.

[netherspirit]

I have read through the rules a couple of times now (not sure I will get to play them tonight) and I have a few questions.

How do you handle Squad Leaders for multiple common squads? Do you just assign one Squad Leader for the whole group? Or multiples (one per squad)? In which case you would have to keep track of which figures belong to which card...or could you move the non-leaders with any leader?

I think thats the only thing that came up during my readings...If I think of anything else I will be sure to post it. I am looking forward to trying these out...

[Edge0001]

Hey Netherspirit,

That's a good one!
This definitely sounds like something for V1.1!

Try this:

Using multiple common squads in a single division:
A leader figure must be designated for each Army Card - even for common units. Multiple leaders mean multiple possible targets.

When following Move Orders, common units will move towards the closest leader of the same type, regardless of which Army Card he belongs to.

When moving to attack, the squad units always use the target (from any identical Army Card) closest to them.

Go down the list, in order, until you run out of moves.
1) Any figures already in attack range should stay and attack.
2) Any figures that can move into attack range, should do so.
3) Any figures that have a target should move towards them.
4) Without a target, simply choose four figures at random. (You should try to keep squad figures adjacent to each other, as stragglers are easy to pick off.)

[netherspirit]

That sounds good to me. I will give it a try when I get some play-time in :)

[Malechi]

I am having trouble with the cards, every time I attempt to open the Word document, Word freaks out and shuts down completely ...

[netherspirit]

That worddoc is very cool. Now to make one for each army card :)

[netherspirit]

You know what would be sweet?

If in that word doc you had at least one of each for the different generals. A green one for Ullar, the Red for Utgar, Grey? for Vydar, Blue for Jandar, Purple or Gold for Einar. That would be cool.

[bunjee]

Haven't had time to read through much yet, quick glance at the Word doc (worked fine for me Malechi, sorry) and I noticed that Zettian is spelled wrong (Zettain) in the card title.

[netherspirit]

bunjee the document is editable, so you can customize it for the cards you are automating :)

[Jason]

The download doesn't seem to work

[Edge0001]

Hey Jason,
Try right clicking on the Download link for the PDF and selecting "Save Target As..."

That seems to work for me every time.

[netherspirit]

I am hoping to give these a try tommorrow night.

[allskulls]

Tried the first scenario last night. Like I said, "PERFECT"!

I gave the enemy a squad of Marrden Hounds to fill out the 100pts. My teams were Finn & Knight and Izumi & Krav.

I rushed with Finn and the Knights while I positioned the samurai for the soulborgs' arrival and Krav took high ground and waited. My Knights didn't make it through the water as the Marro & Soulborgs picked them off. Finn crossed the stream and managed to take out a high ground hound and 2 Marro Warriors. The Krav took out the other 2 hounds before they could engage. Meanwhile the DW9K and his Z buddies advance toward the Izumi side and took out one Samurai with an explosion. The female agent then takes down DW9K with one shot and falls to the Zentian's enhanced targeting. NeGoSka brings his support to the Marro and takes out Finn but his spirit lives on in the last 2 Samurai who rushes at the Zentians blocking all of their fire. One soulborg guard falls to the blade and one samurai falls to Zentian weaponry. The remaining soulborg moves to gain high ground and the samurai follows to stay level only to gain the attention of the Marro. With high ground the Marro assists their allied soulborg and the last samurai is no more. Agent K and J are left and they move to attack the Marro with no avail. NeGoSka charges toward the Krav through the stream taking a couple of shots while the lone soulborg moves to accompany the Marro. The agents retreat to highground drawing the Marro to low ground. The Marro did not stand a chance. Moving towards the stream, the Zentian Guard gives NegoSka cover fire as he closes in on the Krav. Agent K is taken out by the cover fire and NeGoSka engages Agent J. NeGoSka takes one last hit from Agent J before ending the Krav's life and sealing another Utgar victory.

Wow! This was as good of a battle as any...even better than most. The lone samurai vs the lone soulborg lasted a couple of rounds. The movement rolls were good too as the enemy regrouped towards the end of the battle. This is a good way to play test customs and strategies.

I am ready for more cards! Has anyone started adding to the word doc yet? We should split the work and post here.

*One suggestion for the Marro is to have the clone roll at 15+ when 2 are eliminated and at 12+ when 3 are eliminated. And check for cloning before targeting or move orders so they can move to nearest water space or just retreat to cover.

Good job, Edge!

[cbs42]

Edge, my sole problem with these rules was the bookkeeping and post-it noting that I would have to do. Your new word doc all but eliminates those hassles.

You kick ass.

[netherspirit]

So I finally got a chance to play using these rules on Wednesday and Thursday. I will probably do one more tonight and then write up an article for the front page.

I was blown away by how well these rules worked. It might not take the place of a good experienced player but if you play against an army with lots of synergy (Orcs, UPC's undefeated craziness) and give them proper Marching Orders it can be a tough battle...

More to come later...

[allskulls]

Nether- Did you play the scenario? Have you added any units to the word file yet?

These rules do deserve a front page article. My wife likes co-op better than head to head games. Now I can get her to play more often :D

[netherspirit]

I didn't do the scenario, I pitted myself against some rather strong armies. I won both games but they were VERY close and could have gone either way. I was suprised at how well the rules worked.

I am going to try out the scenario tonight, I figured I better try that before writing anything about it :)

[allskulls]

I am really interested in getting these cards done, but would like to split the work if possible. Did anybody add to the cards yet? I don't want to overlap any work.

I will be working on Vydar when time permits. If anyone else is interested choose another General and we can post them all here.

[netherspirit]

He sent me a version of the document with Army Themed color schemes instead of just all Red.

I am sure he will post that eventually. :)

[allskulls]

He sent me a version of the document with Army Themed color schemes instead of just all Red.

I am sure he will post that eventually. :)
Cool. Could you post or send to me? Would be great if you could.

[Edge0001]

You can also get any of these files from:

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/stilettogames@sbcglobal.net/lst?.dir=/HeroScape&.order=&.view=l&.src=bc&.done=http%3a//briefcase.yahoo.com/

[Fallen Templar]

This really needs to be stickied :!: Mods :!:

[bunjee]

This really needs to be stickied :!: Mods :!:
You are right!

Done!

[Fallen Templar]

Woo another thread i got stickied

[netherspirit]

The front page article is finally up :)

www.heroscapers.com

[AwesomeCoolGuy]

I tried to download it, but it didn't work for me either. Could somebody who downloaded it email it to me?

[netherspirit]

I tried to download it, but it didn't work for me either. Could somebody who downloaded it email it to me?

Try Right clicking and selecting Save as

Are you trying the Yahoo links above or the links in our Download Section?

[AwesomeCoolGuy]

I tried the link in the downloads section.

[AwesomeCoolGuy]

Oh wait, I tried it again and it worked.

[yagyuninja]

Just skimmed the rules and I've got to say I'm very excited. I love the way you put together the rule book like the official ones. The attention to detail is fantastic.

I'll read the rules today and will try 'em out tonight. I can't wait!

EDIT: Oh, and I like your avatar. Shining force 1 & 2 rank right up there with Final Fantasy Tactics as my favorite video games ever.

[markwars]

#1 - Thank you so much for sharing this Edge0001. I play primarily with my six year-old son and while he does his best this idea intrigues me.

#2 - Thank you netherspirit for putting it on the front page to bring it to my attention.

#3 - Thank you to the souls that I know will eventually get each and every army card made up.

I know what I am going to be doing this evening! :D

[netherspirit]

#2 - Thank you netherspirit for putting it on the front page to bring it to my attention.

#3 - Thank you to the souls that I know will eventually get each and every army card made up.


#2 - No problem, I meant to get it up a lot sooner, but got distracted with other things. Hopefully enough people will see it and come check these out.

#3 - I am working on it :)

[K/H_Addict]

does anyone know how to convert these to text-only? i want to print these, but it has so much color to it, and color ink is expensive...

[daevablacc]

does anyone know how to convert these to text-only? i want to print these, but it has so much color to it, and color ink is expensive...
I have that same problem w/ $ and would also be interested in a text-only printout. I can draw the diagrams myself.

[K/H_Addict]

even if the diagrams were in B&W would be better than all color.

[netherspirit]

You should be able to tell it to print in black and white....I printed mine in black and white and it came out okay.

[daevablacc]

My HP prints grey w/ the color cartridge. :frustrated: So if I could get a file of just the text that would be awesome. 8)

[netherspirit]

I just checked the file and it is editable. You can use the Text Select tool to select the text and copy it and past it into word or whatever your prefered text editor may be.

[K/H_Addict]

I just checked the file and it is editable. You can use the Text Select tool to select the text and copy it and past it into word or whatever your prefered text editor may be.


thats what i am working on right now. i'm about half way through, an have skipped allof theexamples, intending on printing them separately, leaving a note where the should be. i might end up giving up and priniting in B&W, now that i know you can.......

[K/H_Addict]

wait....how did you print the battlefields he supplied us with? did you do those separately in color, or B&W too?

[netherspirit]

I printed them in B&W. I am so awesome I can tell the difference between water, sand, grass and stone in Grayscale :)

[K/H_Addict]

finished editing my text-only version. It is 10 pages long, all text.

The final 4 pages of the original version consist of maps, and essential charts, etc, so i am going to print them separately, and did not include them in the text version. Example images and texts are not included. Instead i did it as follows:

EXAMPLE 1: Checking for Targets.
(see separate image)

whe the "(see separate image)" part is is where the text and the pic given in the original was and should be printed separately.


now, to figure out how to put the file here......netherspirit, any tips?

[Xotli]

Hmmm ... this thread seems to have gone inactive for a bit.

Did anyone else playtest this? If so, want to report your findings? (I plan to give it a shot after SpeedySonicX and I finish our current game, but they generally take days to complete.)

Anyone working on adding more automated battle cards (for lack of a better name)? I think having a full set of those would go a long way towards decomplicating the rules. (I could pitch in with that effort if it's needed.)

Also, Edge, would you be interested in some editing? I found a few grammar things there and there, and I had some thoughts on how to clarify things in a couple of places.

[Edge0001]

Yeah Xothli,
Any grammar / clarification things you'd like to make, send them my way!

I'm in the process of gathering all these ideas together for a version 1.5 of the rules. No major overhalls, just some additional explanations.

- Scott

[noodles]

Wow, what a great idea and long overdue I must say. I have to say that since my gaming group has gone awol as of late and when we do get together it's not always Heroscape (I have to wait until the rotation comes around again) these rules are exactly what I've been looking for to playtest figures that I haven't used yet and more importantly playtest new maps that I build for balancing issues.

Thanks so much. Once I try these out I will let you know my thoughts.

[Joah]

I would very much like to try these rules out, but I can't download them. I've tried several times, no go. Adobe says it can't open it. What am I doing wrong?

[bunjee]

I would very much like to try these rules out, but I can't download them. I've tried several times, no go. Adobe says it can't open it. What am I doing wrong?

When you say Adobe, can I verify that you mean Adobe Reader? Which version of Reader are you running? Are you getting a specific error? I just downloaded it again and it opened fine for me.

[Malechi]

I would very much like to try these rules out, but I can't download them. I've tried several times, no go. Adobe says it can't open it. What am I doing wrong?

Joah,

This sounds to be a browser-download problem. What's happening is each time you retry the download, your browser is downloading the exact same way it did on the prrevious attempt. I.E. It missed some data somewhere along the download.

Try this:

1) Toss all previous attempts out, get 'em off your computer.
2) Clear your browser's cache.
3) Remove all previous attempts from your Download history window.
4) Now attempt to download once again, this should start a "new" download.

The same effect occurs if you have not attempted the download for a couple weeks, as the original download's cache and history would probably be pushed out of the queue by then.

[Xotli]

Yeah Xothli,
Any grammar / clarification things you'd like to make, send them my way!
Okay, I'll try to put them together and PM them to you soon.

BTW, how do you handle automated common units? I.e., how can you decide which figures to move, how do you handle squad leaders, etc.

[netherspirit]

BTW, how do you handle automated common units? I.e., how can you decide which figures to move, how do you handle squad leaders, etc.

Yeah, I brought that up pretty quickly after playing. Its on page 4.

[Xotli]

Yeah, I brought that up pretty quickly after playing. Its on page 4.
You know, nether, know that you remind me, I totally remember you saying that. :)

Perhaps edge can address it in his 1.5 version.

[markwars]

How are the unit cards coming?

[Xotli]

How are the unit cards coming?
Hey, yeah, good question. I could help out with that if you guys think it would be ... er ... helpful. :D

But as someone said earlier, we should get organized on it so we're not all doing the same things over and over.

Also, I was wondering if there needed to be any further info on the cards. Maybe how many spaces a half-move is? I know that's not a difficult calculation, but anything that results in less math during a game is good AFAIC. :thumbsup:

[tharkad]

Hi and thanks for these rules. I just posted a write up of our first session to my blog: http://blogs.opml.org/casdra/2006/07/31#heroscapeGameNight

Thanks again, we had a great time.

[davidlhsl]

Now that I've built my very own dice tower, I've decided to finally give these Automated rules a trial run. Having played about 5 games so far, I'd have to say that the rules are fantastic. One does, however, need to "dial in" the difficulty to get a close game.

I thought I'd pass along some of the ideas I've adopted into my own games in case any of you would like to try them out in your own games. I'll use the term "enemy" to refer to the automated opponent.

(1) I prefer not knowing how the order markers are placed on the enemy at the beginning of the round. I create the suspense by using the order markers to simply identify which units are alive at the beginning of the round. At the beginning of the enemy's turn, I use the Order Marker Chart to determine which army is activated that turn. At the end of the round, I'll remove the order markers from any destroyed armies. This way, I don't artificially plan around the enemy's known orders.

You could also use this method as a way of "weighting" armies you wish to make more likely to be selected. For example, suppose the enemy has 3 armies, and I want the first army to be more likely to get orders. I could place 2 order markers on it to identify it as Army 1 and Army 2. Then I could place one order marker on each of the remaining two as Army 3 and Army 4. At the beginning of each turn, I would roll on the Order Marker Chart under 4 Army Cards. Thus, a result of 1-10 would select the first army card (identified as Army 1 & 2), 11-15 would select the second army card (identified as Army 3), and 16-20 would select the third army card (identified as Army 4).

(2) Two tweaks are provided in the rules to make the game more or less difficult: (a) giving the enemy more or less points, (b) giving the enemy more or fewer divisions. These two methods can be used individually or in combination to "dial in" your desired difficulty. I propose a third: give yourself a 4th turn in a round for an easier game or give the enemy a 4th turn in a round to make it more difficult. Now you have three items to mix and match for your perfect game.

(3) A personal rule of thumb I have adopted in my own games is that an enemy unit in melee is permitted to climb to a higher elevation provided it doesn't leave engagement with any other unit in the process. Because of the way the orders are programmed to automatically stop upon contact with a player's unit, the enemy is frequently placed at an automatic height disadvantage. By allowing the enemy the opportunity to continue climbing to hopefully achieve an equal or higher height, this makes things more fair.

(4) Another Marching Order idea I've been toying with is the idea of a "dedicated" order. This actually modifies the existing marching orders. For example, you can have Dedicated Sweep, Dedicated Patrol, etc. This is useful when you want units to put a priority on reaching a particular destination.

The way dedicated orders work is as follows: Marching Orders are always followed in the Moving phase, even if it has acquired a target. The only exception, of course, is when it's engaged. This allows ranged units to snipe at potential targets on the way to its destination without changing course. Melee units would also not be distracted by targets at a distance.

I think this "dedicated" order concept provides additional flexibility in programming the enemy's units.


I'd finally like to also add my own applause and thanks for this well-designed ruleset.

-David

[davidlhsl]

I have some other additional rules that I'll adopt. These mainly concern order markers due to things that have occurred during play:

(1) Bonded units

If a unit is bonded to another unit, such as Sir Dendrick being bonded to the Knights of Weston; it seems that you would never give Sir Dendrick an order marker, since he'll always get to move/attack when the Knights get their turn. Therefore: If an army is bonded to another army alive at the beginning of the round, ignore the bonded army when rolling on the Order Marker Chart for the remainder of that round.

(2) Support units

Frequently at the beginning of the game, a unit with a support order adjacent to the unit it supports will get an order marker before the army it supports gets one. Thus, the supporting unit simply stays in place and a turn is wasted. It seems that you would normally move the supported unit first before you would even consider moving the supporting unit. How you handle this would depend on whether you assign order markers at the beginning of the round (as the rules currently state) or determine activation at the beginning of each turn (as I like to do, as stated in my previous post).

If you assign order markers at the beginning of the round:

If an army begins the round adjacent to the unit it supports, and with no potential targets within sight distance; ignore that army when rolling on the Order Marker Chart until the army it supports gets an order marker.

If you determine activation at the beginning of each turn:

If an army begins the round adjacent to the unit it supports, and with no potential targets within sight distance; ignore that army when rolling on the Order Marker Chart until the army it supports is activated during that round.

A few clarifications are in order for this situation:

(a) If a target appears during the round, you should still ignore the supporting unit until the supported unit gets their order. This simulates the fact that you want to base order marker assignments based upon the situation at the beginning of the round, not at the beginning of each turn during the round.

(b) As stated in my previous post, I use the order markers to identify which armies are eligible for activation at the beginning of each round. What I'll do now is this: At the beginning of the round, any armies with support orders adjacent to the supported army, and with no potential targets within sight distance; will have an order marker placed face-down to indicate the army is eligible to receive an order marker during the turn, but not until the army it supports gets its turn. Once the supported unit gets its turn, place the order marker upright to indicate eligibility for subsequent turns.

(c) It should not automatically follow that a support until will get their turn immediately following the supported army's turn. You should simply determine that the supporting unit is eligible to be activated afterwards.

(3) Agent Carr

Since Agent Carr is ranged, it is treated as a missile unit. However, Agent Carr has a Sword of Reckoning that is deadly in melee. I propose the following: Agent Carr is a missile unit unless Agent Carr targets a ranged unit.

Therefore, Agent Carr will attack melee units at range and attempt to close in on ranged units to put the Sword of Reckoning into play.


-David

[Edge0001]

Man David, It sounds like you put some thought into those posts!

Thanks for all the great ideas - Not only were the all good, but we seem to be sharing the same thoughts about particular problems. (Especially about that tricky Agent Carr...)

I'm going to try to publish Version 2.0 of the rules this weekend - complete with Army Cards and updated rules from extensive playtesting.

Thanks again for the feedback!

[Xotli]

I'm going to try to publish Version 2.0 of the rules this weekend - complete with Army Cards and updated rules from extensive playtesting.
Wow ... I suppose I better get off my ass and get you those grammar suggestions I was talking about before then, huh?

Look for a PM later tonight.

[Edge0001]

IT'S HERE!

HeroScape Automated Battle Rules VERSION 2.0!

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/stilettogames@sbcglobal.net

Head under the HeroScape folder and grab the PDF there!

First off, a shout out to Xotli and Davillhsl for their playtesting and grammatical help!

Now, what new things are in the Version 2.0 of the rules, you might ask?
1.) The clairifications you'd expect.
2.) Rules for playing with Glyphs
3.) Playing with Common Units.
4.) Better Sweep movement chart.
5.) Enhanced Support Marching Orders.
6.) Simpler and more intelligent Special Powers list.
7.) Complete Army Data Cards for all existing HeroScape Armies.
8.) A completely new scenario: The Pass at Darkhold

So there you have it. If you haven't tried the Automated Rules before, give them a try. Once you go Co-Op, there's no going back! :)

[davidlhsl]

These rules look great! I can hardly wait to try them out with the changes. The army cards are a great addition.

I noticed the following on the army cards: Should Sudema be classified as a Melee Unit? She'd probably always want to use her Stone of Stare (missile). Deathwalkers 8000/9000 are also listed as M Units. Hey, that'd make them M&M units! Melts your armies on the battlefield, not in your hands! http://heroscapers.com/community/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

These rules give me a chance to use my special tokens that I created way back in 2003. I can't find my pdf files for the more recent version (I think I lost 'em), but I see that an older version of the files are still at http://members.aol.com/DavidLHsl

These are for the 1" coins. You can purchase 1" wooden coins at a craft store such as Michaels, or purchase them at http://www.craftparts.com/mall/Geometrics1.asp

The following picture shows a couple of the coins. I made a set of 3/4", 1" and 1-1/2". They are perfect for use as markers for waypoints, targets, and leading figures. I wish I had kept my files for the 3/4" and 1-1/2" sizes. Anyway, here is a picture of a few of the 3/4" coins:

http://upload4.postimage.org/792952/07Anotherviewoftokens.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/792952/photo_hosting.html)

And here is a picture showing use as a target marker (Note: this was after moving during my turn, which is why the target marker isn't pointing to the closest unit. At the beginning of Charos' turn, the target marker switches to the closest unit.):

http://upload4.postimage.org/792965/12Sniperstrytoretreatbutscoreabunchofhits.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/792965/photo_hosting.html)

To make the coins, do the following:
(1) Print the pdf files on full-size label sheets (only print pages you wish to make).
(2) To get a really nice result, I use an EZLaminator (a cold laminator product) to laminate the full label sheets.
(3) Cut the circles. Even though they are laminated, you can still easily peel off the label back.
(4) Attach to wooden circles.

You probably wouldn't make the entire set, or you might even be able to design your own set. Since these are so useful for this particular application, I thought I'd share it here.

-David

[markwars]

Edge0001 thanks so much for Version 2. :D I've got plans to play with myself this weekend. :P

[Gambit]

These rules look great! I can hardly wait to try them out with the changes. The army cards are a great addition.

I noticed the following on the army cards: Should Sudema be classified as a Melee Unit? She'd probably always want to use her Stone of Stare (missile). Deathwalkers 8000/9000 are also listed as M Units. Hey, that'd make them M&M units! Melts your armies on the battlefield, not in your hands! http://heroscapers.com/community/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

These rules give me a chance to use my special tokens that I created way back in 2003. I can't find my pdf files for the more recent version (I think I lost 'em), but I see that an older version of the files are still at http://members.aol.com/DavidLHsl

These are for the 1" coins. You can purchase 1" wooden coins at a craft store such as Michaels, or purchase them at http://www.craftparts.com/mall/Geometrics1.asp

The following picture shows a couple of the coins. I made a set of 3/4", 1" and 1-1/2". They are perfect for use as markers for waypoints, targets, and leading figures. I wish I had kept my files for the 3/4" and 1-1/2" sizes. Anyway, here is a picture of a few of the 3/4" coins:

http://upload4.postimage.org/792952/07Anotherviewoftokens.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/792952/photo_hosting.html)

And here is a picture showing use as a target marker (Note: this was after moving during my turn, which is why the target marker isn't pointing to the closest unit. At the beginning of Charos' turn, the target marker switches to the closest unit.):

http://upload4.postimage.org/792965/12Sniperstrytoretreatbutscoreabunchofhits.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/792965/photo_hosting.html)

To make the coins, do the following:
(1) Print the pdf files on full-size label sheets (only print pages you wish to make).
(2) To get a really nice result, I use an EZLaminator (a cold laminator product) to laminate the full label sheets.
(3) Cut the circles. Even though they are laminated, you can still easily peel off the label back.
(4) Attach to wooden circles.

You probably wouldn't make the entire set, or you might even be able to design your own set. Since these are so useful for this particular application, I thought I'd share it here.

-David

or you can just get cheap poker chips

[markwars]

I just want to thank everyone involved with this again. I enjoyed two games over the weekend and it wouldn't have been possible without this rule set. Thanks! :D

[kazuya69]

Question relating to Sgt. Drake:

One of Sgt. Drake's powers means that he can't be attacked from distance with a normal power. (At least I *think* thats the case, I'm quite new to HS).

The problem I found was that did this make him a valid target for an automated squad with missile attacks? I'm assuming that for the purposes of ranged combat he is not a valid target and is ignored by automatons?

The reason this came up is that Carr wasn't too far behind Drake, so I'm wondering whether the automated missile attackers would ignore Drake and shoot at Carr who was a valid target? Or wether Drake is a valid target, but the automatons would close to adjacent range so they can damage him.

I've probably answered my own question here... :shock:

[davidlhsl]

Question relating to Sgt. Drake:

One of Sgt. Drake's powers means that he can't be attacked from distance with a normal power. (At least I *think* thats the case, I'm quite new to HS).

The problem I found was that did this make him a valid target for an automated squad with missile attacks? I'm assuming that for the purposes of ranged combat he is not a valid target and is ignored by automatons?

The reason this came up is that Carr wasn't too far behind Drake, so I'm wondering whether the automated missile attackers would ignore Drake and shoot at Carr who was a valid target? Or wether Drake is a valid target, but the automatons would close to adjacent range so they can damage him.

I've probably answered my own question here... :shock:

I think that, according to Hoyle, the "programmed" logic works like this:

(1) Drake is closest potential target. If it's less than half of sight distance, Drake is automatically targeted. If half of sight distance or more, up to the sight distance, 8+ will target Drake. Let's assume Drake is targeted.
(2) Missile unit has target, so will move away from target, attempting to keep it at maximum distance.
(3) Drake laughs and laughs and laughs.
(4) Carr laughs and laughs and laughs.

I encountered a situation recently playing Braxas. According to Hoyle, Braxas always uses its special Poisonous Acid Breath attack. However, if the only targets available are large or huge, this doesn't make sense. It also doesn't define how to melee move in order to try to get three small/medium units within range.

The important point I'm trying to illustrate with these two examples is that I consider the Automated Rules to be an excellent foundation to playing solo or co-operatively. However, I'm never shy about tweaking things on-the-fly if the situation warrants, as long as I'm fair to my automated opponent.

For example, I had a situation where the automated opponent had Tarn Viking Warriors (squad of 4). Only three were able to get up next to the target. The 4th unit tried to get as close as possible, but was unable to get adjacent to the target. It was, however, adjacent to another unit of mine. The three attacked the target according to the book, but I allowed the fourth to attack its adjacent non-targeted figure, because that is what I would do if I was playing.

So in your example with Sgt. Drake, I think you made an excellent judgement call in ignoring Drake to target Carr. If Drake had been the only figure within range, I would probably consider the automated missile unit to be a melee unit in that specific instance. In my example with Braxas, I'll modify the missile move order to place as many small or medium units within the Acid Breath range rather than put just the target at maximum, or treat Braxas as melee if the only targets are large.

If we try to fix the rules to cover every potential situation, then I fear the rules can become more complicated than needed. Perhaps, however, the "Using Melee/Missile Units" section in the Advanced Rule can be read as follows:

Some units are very effective in both Melee and Missile Combat - and gain the strategies of both. For example, Agent Carr is very effective in either role.

Likewise, some targets are only viable as Melee or Missle Targets. For example, Sgt. Drake Alexander's Tholian Speed special ability makes him an ineligible target if attacked at range.

When closing for attack on a target, whether the unit chooses Melee or Missile depends both the Target's Attack Type and any special abilities that affect the Target's Attack Type.

Typically, missile units should attack melee units at range and attack missile units as melee units. To determine how to proceed, simply choose whichever attack type that provides the best advantage to the attacker.

Thus, in your Sgt. Drake example, I would probably go ahead and target Drake to keep the targeting rules simple. I would attack Drake at Melee and not Missile. Your own decision to ignore Drake and target Carr is an equally valid and intelligent choice.

That's my own proposal, anyway.

-David

[Smeagol10041]

can some one email the rule in a PDF format. The down load on this site says it has a bad c map or something and i can't read it :cry:

[telengard]

Wow, this is sooo cool. I've been having a hard time finding people to play with so this should keep me occupied.

~telengard

[Rollo The Hero]

I just got Heroscape...but I haven't played yet...hope my kids will love it...I've read a lot about the game...and man I'm looking forward to it! The fact that solo/coop is possible is fantastic! thanks for sharing 'em with us! Great work! :D

[telengard]

can some one email the rule in a PDF format. The down load on this site says it has a bad c map or something and i can't read it :cry:

If you haven't got this yet PM me and I can send the file to you. I also have the newer 2.x one I grabbed from Yahoo. I'm in the process of reading that now and printing stuff out.

~telengard

[Obsidian3d]

I'm glad I checked back in this thread. I had downloaded the v1 rules a while back but hadn't had a chance to give them a try. It looks like there have been some really good suggestions to improve on a fantastic idea. I'm looking forward to playing with these rules, and actually maybe playing more than once a season. It's so hard to drum up players around here... :S

Here's looking forward to some solitaire games! :D

[Gearz4Gutz]

I'm doing the happy dance in my head.

I've tried to play solitare HS a million times and it always feels hollow and yucky. (Desperate really).

I can't wait to give these rules a try.

Yipee.

Carl

[markwars]

I am still loving this and I was wondering who else out there is playing this way still.

[blakdeth]

Hello all, I am new to this forum and to Heroscape in general.

I would first like to compliment Edge on a job well done. I love the automated rules.

A couple of questions though:

1) I have a missile unit that acquired a target because the enemy attacked it on a previous round. The missile unit has elevation, but is out of range of the enemy due to the fact that the enemy's range is greater than the sight distance of the unit. Will the unit give up elevation to get within range of the enemy?

I can envision a scenario where the automated unit (attacked on a previous turn) will not give up elevation thus causing it to stubbornly wait for an enemy unit to move within range. An enemy unit with a superior range could easily pick off the automated unit this way.

2) Will a melee unit that is supporting a missile unit charge the missile unit's target even though that would require the melee unit to leave the adjacency of its master unit?

Thank you,
Mark

[davidlhsl]

Hello all, I am new to this forum and to Heroscape in general.

I would first like to compliment Edge on a job well done. I love the automated rules.

A couple of questions though:

1) I have a missile unit that acquired a target because the enemy attacked it on a previous round. The missile unit has elevation, but is out of range of the enemy due to the fact that the enemy's range is greater than the sight distance of the unit. Will the unit give up elevation to get within range of the enemy?

I can envision a scenario where the automated unit (attacked on a previous turn) will not give up elevation thus causing it to stubbornly wait for an enemy unit to move within range. An enemy unit with a superior range could easily pick off the automated unit this way.

2) Will a melee unit that is supporting a missile unit charge the missile unit's target even though that would require the melee unit to leave the adjacency of its master unit?

Thank you,
Mark

This is how I interpret the rules and play it:

(1) From the rules: "Missile Attack Movement: All missile types will attempt to keep their foes at their maximum Range - giving up ground if needed to prevent the enemy from charging."

I think the answer would be yes, the automated opponent would close in on the targeted unit just so far to put the target at maximum range.

(2) When a unit acquires a target, the unit moves using the Combat Movement rules instead of the Marching Order rules (exception: Guard orders should still be observed). A melee unit must close in on the target, the missile unit must keep the target at maximum range, so the supporting unit must break adjacency with the missile unit for the period of time that they are under Combat Movement.

I hope those answers make sense and answer your questions. Oh, and welcome to the forum! :)

-David

[blakdeth]

Thanks David. So, if I understand you correctly, you're saying that a missile unit will give up elevation to close the gap between it and the target that was acquired on a previous turn. I suppose the automatically acquired targets confused me a little. This makes sense though.

Mark

[davidlhsl]

Thanks David. So, if I understand you correctly, you're saying that a missile unit will give up elevation to close the gap between it and the target that was acquired on a previous turn. I suppose the automatically acquired targets confused me a little. This makes sense though.

Mark

Yes, I believe the prohibition against giving up elevation pertains to moving back when it would break the line of sight with the target. Since the target in your scenario is farther away than maximum range, the unit has to close in to make the attack.

Also keep in mind that the rule for automatically targeting a unit if it attacked in a previous turn is only tested if the automated unit does not already have a target or have another target closer. Once an automated unit has a target, it keeps that target until lost based on the criteria specified in the rules.

-David

[cavie]

Hi Mark,
I replied over at BoardGameGeek with basically the same answers you heard here. Didn't know if you saw that there or not. Glad you revived this thread here though since I've needed some questions answered myself.

[Aldin]

Welcome to the boards, blakdeth!

On behalf of our Amiga honoring and perfectly programmed community I extend to you a laurel and a hearty handshake.

As a new member, you can begin your journey on the path to the fellowship, praise and respect of your Heroscapers peers by checking out this announcement: http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=6970

~Aldin, flying solo

[bluekitsune13]

I've recently picked up the automated rules again and started playing with them. I've also made a few tweaks to the rules too. One thing I was experimenting with was personality. Basically before that unit moves, you roll the 20 sided die. On a roll of 13 or higher, that unit will act according to its personality, overriding other rules for that turn.

Disciplined - When their attack movement would force their target to have a height advantage, they will instead stay put where they are, and attack if the enemy is within their range.

Precise - If this unit has a height advantage over its current target(s), and it is within range, it will not move from that spot to attack.

Wild - Before attacking their active target, roll the 20 sided die for each enemy within range, starting with the closest. If an 11 or higher is rolled, this unit will attack that figure instead of their target this turn. (each squad member rolls separately) If an 11 or higher isn't rolled, that unit will attack its current target instead.

Valiant - If there are multiple units within range, it will attack the one with the highest modified attack. If this unit has a target, it will still keep it.

Anyway, you kind of see where I'm getting at. What do you think? So far play testing has been pretty smooth for me.

[MRGood]

I've been trying to update the automated cards from where the rulebook left off- but I'm rather computer illiterate when it comes to certain things. I have been able to figure out how to add to the regular 5 generals through Word, but I don't have any idea about how to change the color scheme to match that of Aquilla.

If somebody has already updated the cards then I apologize for this question. If no-one has, then when I finish them I can put them somewhere where everyone can get them.

[kr-zeronos]

Edit: Nevermind, I looked through the thread and found my answer.

[kr-zeronos]

Looks like we haven't been updating the Enemy Note Cards thingies.

I'll gladly take up the job of creating the new cards.

But I would only require one thing:

The templates - in psd format would be really good, especially with the text boxes ready.

[Supa]

Excellent work. I wish more games had solitaire rules for the rare occasion you can't wrangle together your loser friends, heh.

On your premade cards, what do the numbers 1-10 across the bottom mean?

[davidlhsl]

On your premade cards, what do the numbers 1-10 across the bottom mean?

Edge001 explained the use of the numbered track as follows (Originally posted on page 3 of this thread. Don't worry; I had to reread this thread to find it. :) :

To make them work like I imagine, you'll need some paper clips. Once you print and cut these out, place a clip on the right of the card showing what Marching Orders they have.

For Sweep or Meander marching orders, attach a token to the paperclip (orienting it in the desired direction).

For Support marching orders, place a second paperclip on the lower number track. Place another clip on the "master" card on the corresponding number. (One glance will tell you who is being supported!)

For Guard or Patrol marching orders, the paperclip on the lower number track is used for corresponding guard positions or patrol paths specified in the scenario.

I think you could also use the numbers to identify unit number. When that unit acquires a target, you could place the corresponding number next to the targeted unit on the map. You could use 6-sided dice or make your own paper markers for this purpose. Example: Krug could be unit #1, so place the paper clip on the 1. Krug acquires one of your Nakita Agents, so you could place a die with the 1 side up next to the targeted unit. Krug then gets hit with a sexual harassment lawsuit, which leads to an embarrassing appearance on The People's Court.

-David

[Mossman]

Just discovered these a few days ago and I'm having an awesome time! Thank you for creating them, and thanks to everyone who put in the time to either contribute to version 2, or to make suggestions within the thread. To cool!

[Melwing17]

You can also get any of these files from:

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/stilettogames@sbcglobal.net/lst?.dir=/HeroScape&.order=&.view=l&.src=bc&.done=http%3a//briefcase.yahoo.com/

I just thought I'd quote this so it's easy to find at the end, here. The download links aren't working for me, and I dug through all the pages to find an alternate link. :) Sorry if it's improper, just trying to help.

Awesome awesome awesome guide. So strange too, because mere moments before stumbling across this thread, I was just talking to my wife about doing a co-op game and how we'd make it fair. Thanks so much.

[Akrashan]

Giving an old thread a poke here...

I tried the Automated Battle Rules 3 times with my wife (twice of those being last night :D) and I have to say, we had a ball.

I believe the most difficult was to figure out which powers were always in use and which weren't - Lots of looking at the rules. But it eventually falls into place, and there aren't that many that aren't always in use in RotV ;)

I'm currently working on a battle report of my first Dungeon Crawl (solo), which I'll post as soon as it's done (and as soon as I can find a decent host for my images... my previous private-owned-and-free host kinda dissapeared).

I was wondering if anyone had tips & tricks for adapting official & custom maps for solo/coop playing using the automated rules?

[eternaldream]

Oh... Look what I dug up! I just have to comment on this a bit. I tried playing a game with these rules, and I have to say I'm impressed. The rules work really well, and it's simple enough so I don't have to reference many things.

What I also like is that there is a bit different strategy needed. Since you pretty much know what the enemy will do, and where they will go, you need to think in advance. For example, if I move a unit here, I know that the enemy will target them and attack them. This creates situations where it's possible to "lure" enemies away to make room for the rest of your army to get by.

There is just enough randomness though, like having to roll the d20 to see if your unit will be targeted. That still adds a bit more variety.

I was wondering if the original author is still working on any more updates, or if somebody else has expanded on the rules themselves.

[Darkco]

I have to say I am Impressed too. You are like a genous. Very very nice looking for the presentation. Good job man.

[Jedediah]

Can some1 send me the rules to the solo play and also the templates for creating the cards for my Characters. For me the file is not found. Plz some1 email it to me

jedediah

[J4Jandar]

Can some1 send me the rules to the solo play and also the templates for creating the cards for my Characters. For me the file is not found. Plz some1 email it to me

jedediah

Hello jedediah. There is a lot of information on this site if you are willing to look. If you go nto the downloads section you will find what you are looking for. In my signature towards the bottom is some rules for forum conduct. Grammar, capitoliation and punctuation make reading your posts easier and more fun as well as keeps the grammar police aff your back. The search function is a great way to locate what this site has to offer too. Have fun and good posting! JL

[eternaldream]

What J4Jandar said. You'll be liked a lot more if you attempt to use correct grammar. I PM'd you the link that has the files.

[davidlhsl]

IT'S HERE!

HeroScape Automated Battle Rules VERSION 2.0!

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/stilettogames@sbcglobal.net

Head under the HeroScape folder and grab the PDF there!

I wanted to quote this from page 8 (message #89, I think) in case anyone missed it. I believe the ruleset in the downloads section is for version 1. However, version 2 (located offsite at the above url) contains some nice improvements.

[Ikari]

Does anyone have version 2.0 and could send it to me. I'm very interested in automated battles. All the link on this thread are broken. The only one working is of course the one on the downloads section. That one however, is version 1.0 and would really like 2.0 for the updates. Thanks.

[ZBeeblebrox]

Does anyone have version 2.0 and could send it to me. I'm very interested in automated battles. All the link on this thread are broken. The only one working is of course the one on the downloads section. That one however, is version 1.0 and would really like 2.0 for the updates. Thanks.

I would also be interested in Version 2.0....I've had Version 1.0 for a while, but decided today to see if some of the new units were discused for Automation. I clicked on the Yahoo link, but it does not exist anymore. Just wondering if someone still had Version 2.0 saved and they could email me a copy of post it to the download area for everyone to enjoy.

-thanks, ZB

[Ramses800]

Does anyone have version 2.0 and could send it to me. I'm very interested in automated battles. All the link on this thread are broken. The only one working is of course the one on the downloads section. That one however, is version 1.0 and would really like 2.0 for the updates. Thanks.

I would also be interested in Version 2.0....I've had Version 1.0 for a while, but decided today to see if some of the new units were discused for Automation. I clicked on the Yahoo link, but it does not exist anymore. Just wondering if someone still had Version 2.0 saved and they could email me a copy of post it to the download area for everyone to enjoy.

-thanks, ZB

Dito!

[brianpo]

I would also like to have v2.0

Thanks

[Killz]

Hey the links broken! Is there a place to get this elsewhere

[cavie]

Bumping this thread to see if anyone has a clue as to how to get to the 2nd edition rules mentioned here :?

[Sup3rS0n1c]

Bumping this thread to see if anyone has a clue as to how to get to the 2nd edition rules mentioned here :?
IT'S HERE!

HeroScape Automated Battle Rules VERSION 2.0!

>http://briefcase.yahoo.com/stilettogames@sbcglobal.net<

Head under the HeroScape folder and grab the PDF there!

I wanted to quote this from page 8 (message #89, I think) in case anyone missed it. I believe the ruleset in the downloads section is for version 1. However, version 2 (located offsite at the above url) contains some nice improvements. Slightly altered to emphasize what is needed.

[cavie]

That link is pulling up a 'not found' page as well :(

any other leads?

[LMB]

Add me to the list of those wanting 2.0 rules. :)

[cavie]

Bumping again to see if anyone happened to download the 2nd edition rules when the links were working and could post them here?

The leads so far haven't seemed to help much :confused:

[sigmazero13]

I would also be interested in the 2.0 rules, if someone can provide a link that works.

[mrcrimson]

I would also like to see the 2.0 rules, and would anyone that plays this regularly be willing to due a how to on youtube? I'm sure I'm not the only one that would like to see something like that.

[j-Bird]

I've uploaded v2.0 here (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/downloads.php?do=file&id=2094).

[BlueZ71]

Hello,

I see this thread is pretty old. I just discovered Heroscape and am interested in the DnD version as I like the theme. Unfortunately I don't really have anyone to play so I was curious if there are any solo options to play that version. Are the Automated Battle Rules valid for the DnD version as well and if so can the scenarios included with the game be used? Reading through the automated battle rules it looks like it's geared toward different characters or the original version of the game. Is anyone still using the Automated Battle Rules? I'm curious if they are still working out for those using them.

Thank you for your help,

BlueZ71

[S1R_ART0R1US]

You can definitely use the Automated Battle Rules for the DnD scenarios but they were designed some time ago so they may not work all that well-in any case it's worth a shot. I personally never used them because just playing with myself as both sides was much simpler and still worked decently IMO.

Additionally, if you update your location information and check out this thread you may find players in your area who want to play the scenarios but are in the same boat as you. I know some scapers from Texas ran (or or running) a day to play a large custom DnD scenario.

Good luck and welcome, hope you stick around :)

[davidlhsl]

Hello,

I see this thread is pretty old. I just discovered Heroscape and am interested in the DnD version as I like the theme. Unfortunately I don't really have anyone to play so I was curious if there are any solo options to play that version. Are the Automated Battle Rules valid for the DnD version as well and if so can the scenarios included with the game be used? Reading through the automated battle rules it looks like it's geared toward different characters or the original version of the game. Is anyone still using the Automated Battle Rules? I'm curious if they are still working out for those using them.

Thank you for your help,

BlueZ71

The Automated Battle System is a great foundation, and I have used parts of it in my own solo battles. However, there are simply too many complex synergies and effects to create any good A.I. that would be easy to use. What I do in my solo battles:

(1) I choose a side and let the other side be the "opponent." Sometimes I'll even add an extra "opponent" with its own army and set of order markers, which can really increase the challenge.

(2) Before playing, I examine the units and map to determine a basic strategy that each "opponent" should use. Hold position? Take glyphs? Take high ground?

(3) Once I have that set in my mind, I'll commence play. I play all sides as S1r Art0r1us describes (gosh, that's hard to type :) ), except that I'll use dice to handle any decision points where the best choice isn't clear. Prime examples would be placing order markers, choice of target(s), and type of attack. Even with those examples, I'll bypass the dice if the best choice is quite clear. Examples would be not placing order markers on a unit that is bonded with another and can take a turn with that unit's order marker, or selecting between special attack or normal based on number of dice rolled.

A great feature of scenarios such as those found in the D&D Master Set is that the scenario rules will suggest the course of play that a side will follow. Those are fun to play solo.

Having said that, I have had occasion where I've played with someone (my niece) who wanted to play co-operatively against an automatic opponent, so I used the Automated Battle Rules more fully. That can be great fun. And frequently I'll just slap a quick, small map together and just duke out two units for fun.

[BlueZ71]

S1R_ART0R1US and Davidlhsl:

Thank you so much for your prompt responses! Your information is appreciated. I'll definitely look into the options you presented to me.

The automated battle rules do seem complicated. Maybe it's also because it's geared toward a different set. I'll have to reread them a few times and see how I could use them with the DnD set. Confusing when they refer to different characters/minis that are not in the new set.

Thanks again for all the info!!!

BlueZ71

[davidlhsl]

To provide a more specific example of how I play solo, let’s use the first Master Game scenario: The Lair. I would play the heroes and let the troll be my opponent.

Let’s look at the scenario objectives. I really need to get to that glyph as quickly as possible, so that means the troll is going to have to stop me. So I’m thinking that the troll should attack the figure nearest the glyph. Should the troll stay in place, stand on the glyph to prevent access, or charge towards the heroes? Ah, decision point! Well, my reading of the rules would indicate that the troll could stand on the glyph to prevent access to the heroes, which seems to be the best strategy. If I stay near the glyph, I must place the troll between the heroes and the glyph.

Let’s look at the troll’s card. He has only two special abilities, none which involves any decision making or impact from my unit’s abilities. The troll doesn’t have range, but the heroes do. So I must charge into engagement if I want to attack. However, the troll would be better off biding his time for four rounds to prevent the heroes from reaching the glyph.

The troll is only one figure, so there’s no decision making with order markers.

With all factors considered, here is what I would do:

I don’t see anything in the Automated Battle rules that I would use in this scenario.

Since the heroes need to activate the glyph by the end of round 4, the troll should simply park it on the glyph. The heroes could snipe at range, but Tandros would lose out on his +2 broadsword. If the troll survives round 4, then Sunshadow drowns. The troll can then rush the heroes.

If I play a scenario solo, I like to play it several times. I’ll play out some what-if’s. The first thing I would test is to see what happens when the troll just stands on the glyph. What if the troll stayed near the glyph until the heroes moved into movement range, then charged? What if the troll had 2 defense? What if the troll had 10 lives? This provides a great opportunity to explore various tactics and options.

Hopefully this case study will give you some ideas for your own solo excursions. Happy hunting! :)

Postscript: Hmmm, when I originally played this solo, I had the troll stand on the glyph and the heroes simply couldn't reach the glyph in time. But there was one tactic I don't think I've tried. Hmmmm, I'm going to try this scenario again!

Post-postscript: I set up the scenario and played it through 3 times with the troll simply parking it on the glyph each time. I was able to rescue Sunshadow twice, so this is winnable. It's pretty tight, time-wise.

[Kaiyu]

You might want to take a look at my Automated Battle System, (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1160453#post1160453) based on character traits. It was made just recently so it will account for the D&D waves, even the one that is due to be released this month. Maybe you could use pieces of each, I haven't had much of a chance to look into this one yet.

[BlueZ71]

Thanks for the tips everyone!
kaiyu0707 - Very interesting rules. I'll have to look into that more.

Based on a lot of the postings I read and suggestions it looks like just playing each side against each other - like playing chess against yourself - is a popular option. However, I'm not quite sure how I'd make use of the order markers if I'm playing myself. I understand the use of them when playing against someone else but still a little confused as to using them in solo play. Still learning about the game. :D

[Kaiyu]

double post, sorry

[Kaiyu]

However, I'm not quite sure how I'd make use of the order markers if I'm playing myself. I understand the use of them when playing against someone else but still a little confused as to using them in solo play. Still learning about the game. :D
I created rules for my Automated Battle System (http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?p=1160453#post1160453) for placing order markers now. They are designed to work even if you randomly place the order markers, so you can add an element of surprise to your game.

[BlueZ71]

kaiyu0707 - Awesome! Will check them out.
So you've been testing them with the latest master set? From what I've read so far of the ruleset it seems like common sense. I like how figures make use of the special powers. Seems like that would work out well in a DnD environment.

[Kaiyu]

So you've been testing them with the latest master set?
Yep, its been designed and tested to work with every figure that has been made (Hasbro or WoTC). I even accounted for the figures that are coming in the D3 expansion this August. I haven't had a chance to test every single figure, but I've tested a few and went through a list of all the Army Cards and quickly checked to make sure no figure was left broken or useless.

[BlueZ71]

kaiyu0707 - That's really good stuff! Thanks! Looks very promising. I'm going to give this a shot as soon as I get my hands on the game. I'm curious to see some test results from others as well.

[Kaiyu]

I'm curious to see some test results from others as well.
As far as I know no one else has had the chance to try it, but I'd hope they would post the results on here for not only my sake, but for the sake of potential users such as yourself.

[stevenlazer1]

Just Played 2 Games Of Melee Only Units Using The Automated System. It Was Great!!!!! =) The Roman Legionaries Kept Kicking My @SS. I Lost Both Games

[BlueZ71]

Hi,

I was curious if anyone still uses this Auto Battle system seeing as how it's been a while since there's been any activity for this thread. I've used Kaiyu's Auto Battle System with some success. I thought I would try to give this one a go.

For anyone that does still use this, any tips on how to make it a better playing experience?

I'm a little confused with the marching orders. Particularly the sweep movement. So basically whatever location/hex the unit is starting on just look at the center of the board and mark a note indicating that it will move in that direction? Was hoping someone could describe better how to set up the sweep order and how it works. Even though it's set to move toward the center it changes direction at any moment due to the sweep movement chart? I'm guessing that the sweep movement chart is based on the direction it was first ordered to go in. So if the unit was granted a sweep movement to go East toward the center of the board the "forward" direction on the chart is going east or the direction the mini started moving?

Thanks!
BlueZ71

[davidlhsl]

I used these rules quite a bit in the past, but I haven't played them in a long time. I now find it best to play both sides to the best of their abilities, using dice to resolve issues where there is more than one viable choice. The variability in the dice rolls is what makes solo play interesting. Playing both sides allows me to think better about strategy, though I still stink against a working brain (esp. my nephew). :p

Basically, the movement orders (sweep, etc.) are designed to move the figures randomly until they acquire a target. The forward direction is relative to the center of the board, and you roll the d20 to determine the actual direction relative to that direction. Once a target is selected, the figure(s) abandons these rules and switches to either hold back (ranged) or close in (melee). Melee is pretty simple -- move towards the enemy. Ranged is more complicated. You want to hold distance, but you also don't want to give up height. So if you have height advantage, ranged rules suggest you hold and attack. Otherwise, you pull back to keep maximum range on the target.

The original ruleset (version 1.0) was flawed in that I found that figures would frequently just bump into the edge of the map and pretty much stay there. Version 2.0 improved this quite a bit by increasing the odds of forward movement.

Other orders (can't remember if it's called watch or guard) can be used to allow figures to hold position and defend (great for castle scenarios), as well as orders for moving from waypoint to waypoint. Other than guard, this simply determines the behavior of a unit until a target is acquired. Once the target is acquired, then you're in a basic hold range or engage as described.

The thing is, various abilities can complicate things quite a bit. I brought up the example of Agent Carr. He has range, but he's actually more effective in melee.

There have been so many units added to Heroscape since these rules were written, so that will likely complicate things further. The person who set up these rules hasn't been active in a while, so you're probably better off sticking with Kaiyu's system or simply playing both sides without any formal rules.

[BlueZ71]

Davidlhsl,

Thanks for the info! Helps clear it up some more.

I've tried to do just battle each side by myself but it doesn't work out too well. I like the random elements and having a sort-of AI feel to it. I don't have any more of the newer D&D units so I'm working with some older stuff. I'll have to try this some more.

Thanks!
Bluez71