Too much Power can be a bad thing

[Roxas]

At least in my oppinion, the one thing that i don't want heroscape to keep doing is make these really powerful (Yet expensive) characters and just have each new set be more powerful than the last. take Orms return, ok, it's the first power-house set, then Raknars Vision, lets make even MORE dragons, and a giant that's worth 225 Points,

i just don't want them to keep going more and more,

Even Zanafor's discovery, even stronger Samuri, 10 Range, Stronger Vipers,

I like it but I don't ya know, I like the more simple characters to choose from

What do you guys think

[KeeperOfPeace]

Well, at this moment I have never seen any of the new pieces in person. So I am in no way the right person to ask. However, I have played many games where power creep began.

I don't think this game is heading down that road. As far as I have seen, every piece has some weakness that you can overcome with the right strategy.

[Jason]

I disagree if you think Heroscape is making new pieces too strong. There are tons of Heroes in the 100 ppoint range and there used to be only 2 at 180 or above, I think it was a great idea to release 4 new ones to give options to players who want to draft an expensive Hero. Wave 4 was hardly too strong too, Sudema is fun but has low life and defense, Major X is weak against ranged, the Cowboys have uses but are hardly overpowering, Morsbane is only useful if they use certain uniques, Parmenio is far from overpowered, and Valguard sucks. As for squads I have never seen anyone say the Armocs are too good, in my opinion the Aubrien stink, the Tagawas are quite expensive and can die quickly, the Sacred Band are seen as inferior to the Romans, and the Gladitrons are great but cost 80 and have a weakness to ranged

[D-Dyzzle]

At least in my oppinion, the one thing that i don't want heroscape to keep doing is make these really powerful (Yet expensive) characters and just have each new set be more powerful than the last. take Orms return, ok, it's the first power-house set, then Raknars Vision, lets make even MORE dragons, and a giant that's worth 225 Points,

i just don't want them to keep going more and more,

Even Zanafor's discovery, even stronger Samuri, 10 Range, Stronger Vipers,

I like it but I don't ya know, I like the more simple characters to choose from

What do you guys think



I think you have an excellent piont. I also havent seen the newer cards but iv looked at them online. There are a lot of huge expensive figures. I think they should focus more on squads than heroes. Its a game bout armies not a few guys boxes up in a duel ring and told to kill each other, you know what i mean. There should be more & less expencive squads. Too many sets without squads. 1 is understandable but no more. Good piont to bring up.

[Jason]

"I think they should focus more on squads than heroes"

I 100% disagree. I find Heroes more fun and it is called HEROscape not SQUADscape

[D-Dyzzle]

At least in my oppinion, the one thing that i don't want heroscape to keep doing is make these really powerful (Yet expensive) characters and just have each new set be more powerful than the last. take Orms return, ok, it's the first power-house set, then Raknars Vision, lets make even MORE dragons, and a giant that's worth 225 Points,

i just don't want them to keep going more and more,

Even Zanafor's discovery, even stronger Samuri, 10 Range, Stronger Vipers,

I like it but I don't ya know, I like the more simple characters to choose from

What do you guys think



I think you have an excellent piont. I also havent seen the newer cards but iv looked at them online. There are a lot of huge expensive figures. I think they should focus more on squads than heroes. Its a game bout armies not a few guys boxes up in a duel ring and told to kill each other, you know what i mean. There should be more & less expencive squads. Too many sets without squads. 1 is understandable but no more. Good piont to bring up.



Can i quote myself?

[D-Dyzzle]

"I think they should focus more on squads than heroes"

I 100% disagree. I find Heroes more fun and it is called HEROscape not SQUADscape

lol :lol: yeah but the name has nothing to do with the game WHICH IS BASED ON ARMIES!! Armies need squads. some elite soldiers are of course good for any army and definatly add fun to an army based game but in the end numbers dominate :headbang:

[D-Dyzzle]

At least in my oppinion, the one thing that i don't want heroscape to keep doing is make these really powerful (Yet expensive) characters and just have each new set be more powerful than the last. take Orms return, ok, it's the first power-house set, then Raknars Vision, lets make even MORE dragons, and a giant that's worth 225 Points,

i just don't want them to keep going more and more,

Even Zanafor's discovery, even stronger Samuri, 10 Range, Stronger Vipers,

I like it but I don't ya know, I like the more simple characters to choose from

What do you guys think



I think you have an excellent piont. I also havent seen the newer cards but iv looked at them online. There are a lot of huge expensive figures. I think they should focus more on squads than heroes. Its a game bout armies not a few guys boxes up in a duel ring and told to kill each other, you know what i mean. There should be more & less expencive squads. Too many sets without squads. 1 is understandable but no more. Good piont to bring up.



Can i quote myself?


im tryin a triple quote lol :lol:

[shakey_snake]

you should have your postcount reset.

[feekonea]

I made a thread @ the hq similar to this one, and it was do you like raknars vision or not, i didnt, because i felt that there were too much powerfu heros. I agree with you.

[Jason]

"yeah but the name has nothing to do with the game WHICH IS BASED ON ARMIES"

The name of the game has nothing to do with the game????? That's an interesting logic. What proof do you have that the game is based on armies. If that was the case the Masterset should feature more squads than heroes whereas right now the Masterset contains More Heroes than squads.

The newest big figure set is needed to help eliminate the dominance of squads and to shift the balance of the game. It's not a coincidence that all of the Big figures in the new expansion have abilities designed to target multiple enemies at a time

[feekonea]

"yeah but the name has nothing to do with the game WHICH IS BASED ON ARMIES"

The name of the game has nothing to do with the game????? That's an interesting logic. What proof do you have that the game is based on armies. If that was the case the Masterset should feature more squads than heroes whereas right now the Masterset contains More Heroes than squads.

The newest big figure set is needed to help eliminate the dominance of squads and to shift the balance of the game. It's not a coincidence that all of the Big figures in the new expansion have abilities designed to target multiple enemies at a time


jason's first paragraph- I completely agree with.

jason's 2nd paragarph- yes jason, I can see where your coming from, but i fthese heros counter all squads, how will we counter these heros?

[D-Dyzzle]

How could the game not be based on armies? and when i say the name of the game has nothing to do with the game i mean it has nothing to do with the gamePLAY. i think its ok for the master set to contain more heroes to get you started with some elite units, but the expansions on my opinion should have more squads.


NUMBERS WILL DOMINATE!!!!!!!!!

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!! :headbang:

[KeeperOfPeace]

Me, I love taking both heroes and squads. I would not play this game if there was only one or the other. No unit in this game is overpowered if you know how to beat it. Also, there are some players that do use whatever pieces they will win with. Even if that means using only the best units. these people generally lose interest in the game after a while since it isn't fun just using the best units from every general. I personally almost always take armies that I could see working together. For me, I will enjoy this game for much longer because of this.

[Rÿchean]

I agree with Jason on this, the newer figures are not overpowered.

Master set figures are still powerful and playable. When you look back on all the expansions and releases, Hasbro has done an excellent job to avoid powercreep while still introducing exciting units and new game mechanics.

I also beleive this is the last go around for dragons. Even though, Einar doesn't have one yet, I doubt very seriously we will see more of them.

[shakey_snake]

As long as their packaging Large figures 2:1 with the terrain expansions, there will be Dragons.

[Jason]

"how will we counter these heros"

You can counter the new Raknar's Vision Heroes with Other Heroes. Krug for example crushes all the New Heroes, Denrick does well, Alistair does decently, Charos does well, etc

[Jason]

I say that overlll the Most Powerful units are in the Masterset. The Krav Maga, Airborne Elite, and Raelin are all likely undercosted and then you factor in how other potentially devastating units like Drake and Grimnak. I still say the Masterset contains more powerful figures than any other set

[TheRealQ]

I also think the Master Set more than holds up against the waves. Several of my top picks come from the base game. In addition I wouldn't worry about super-powerful new figures as they have a points cost to compensate for their power. If I was playing a 500 point game against an opponent with 2 250 point figures I would smile then wipe him off the board with my hoard of low point figures.

[Barfodor]

I agree with the recent sayings. The MS has many figs that still are good. I still play with the AE, the marros, with some of the newer marros are still good to use in combat. I really dont see this game going into a power surge. I still believe in this game, always will, and i believe that Hasbro will do a good job of keeping the figs to a reasonable power. Even if it takes longer from expansions to come out, i believe in them. That is why I play Heroscape.

[Aranas]

I think up to now the designers did a good job to keep it balanced. Despite all the new figures, people still draft a lot of figures from the MS. Well done!

I have played many games where power creep began.

I warn the designers though. Many of us used to play MagicTheGathering (or other CCG games) and left the game just because of the "power creep up" wich made old cards/figures useless, forcing us to continuously buy new stuff. Create nice and fun new figures, we will buy them. Force us to do it. I'm gone! :twisted:

[Mud Turkey 13]

I also think the Master Set more than holds up against the waves. Several of my top picks come from the base game. In addition I wouldn't worry about super-powerful new figures as they have a points cost to compensate for their power. If I was playing a 500 point game against an opponent with 2 250 point figures I would smile then wipe him off the board with my hoard of low point figures.

That's exactly why I don't mind them making new, powerful figures. The point system keeps the game balanced. Sure, Jotun is going to destroy a squad of Sacred Band one-on-one, but if that's a 300 point game I've still got 250 points to burn whereas my opponent only has 75. The balance lies in the point system.

[Oprime]

I think up to now the designers did a good job to keep it balanced. Despite all the new figures, people still draft a lot of figures from the MS. Well done!

I have played many games where power creep began.

I warn the designers though. Many of us used to play MagicTheGathering (or other CCG games) and left the game just because of the "power creep up" wich made old cards/figures useless, forcing us to continuously buy new stuff. Create nice and fun new figures, we will buy them. Force us to do it. I'm gone! :twisted:

Could na said it better.

The thing is in HS, ALL the units are still viable picks (yes inc. Dund and Valaguard) if used properly.

Random drafts are some of the best games Ive played.
You learn how to utilize some otherwise overlooked units.

[shakey_snake]

I think they've done a great job with the balance, although commons really seem to have the uniques' number sometimes.

I mean, how do you create a typical tournament army?
pick multiples of a common and then pick uniques that enhance them.

[Revdyer]

I think Hasbro has done a reasonably decent job of keeping the power (and point cost) creep in check. Just compare the official heroes and squads to most (not all) custom ones, where the temptation to make a "super powered hero" is all to alluring and I think one would have to conclude that Hasbro has not caved in to a "bigger is better" mentality...at least, not yet.

On the other hand, if buyers trend to purchase more of the bigger guys, then the company will market more of the bigger guys. So, the future is at least partially in our own hands (and wallets and purses).

[Jason]

In a competitive environment I use unique squada alot, I'll take the Krav and AE over any commons

[Roxas]

I just think that they should try and keep things level, I mean, if they didn't come out with Jotun, I'm sure that we would have a Giant on the message board about characters we'd like to see. I don't mind what they've got, i just don't want them to forget about making well rounded, cheap squads and strong heros and i simply love it when the two work together. like when a hero empowers a squad, its a great idea, i just don't think that there should be someone that gets really powerful all by himself ya know


---Roxas---

[RichardD]

Even if they made a 400-500 behemoth (hey, there's an idea - Behemoths and Leviathons!), the game itself wouldn't suffer from power creep so long as the huge guy was balanced; if a horde can beat a team can beat one guy, who can beat the horde - all depending on the best tactics/dice rolls - then the game is fine.

[AmishBurrito]

I agree with what most people have been posting, that the game is fairly balanced. The point system keeps the game balanced, and even though a guy may not seem worth his points, but that depends on how u use him and the luck of the roll.

[Rÿchean]

I just think that they should try and keep things level, I mean, if they didn't come out with Jotun, I'm sure that we would have a Giant on the message board about characters we'd like to see. I don't mind what they've got, i just don't want them to forget about making well rounded, cheap squads and strong heros and i simply love it when the two work together. like when a hero empowers a squad, its a great idea, i just don't think that there should be someone that gets really powerful all by himself ya know

Fret not....

Wave 5 looks to me like it is going to only have 3 heroes in it, a unique squad, and 6 more common ones. (I COULD be wrong)

[reapersaurus]

Even if they made a 400-500 behemoth (hey, there's an idea - Behemoths and Leviathons!), the game itself wouldn't suffer from power creep so long as the huge guy was balanced; if a horde can beat a team can beat one guy, who can beat the horde - all depending on the best tactics/dice rolls - then the game is fine.From my analysis of HS, this is an incorrect belief about the game.

From the old .net discussion about "Are high-powered unit viable in Heroscape?", what was determined was that it is too likely for a 400 point unit to dominate against normal units, because every turn they are activating their 400 points' worth, while the opponent is activating less than 100 points' worth, typically.

This makes the Leviathan player (or it was Hulk, in the previous discussion) simply a better choice to play, since his actions are more devastating than a small unit's.

There is a VERY fragile proportionally-more-expensive power cost in HS due to the rule that each unit can be activated up to 3 times per turn.
If they simply made a restriction that the Leviathan unit could only be used once per ROUND, than you could see some possibly-balanced high-powered units.
But it would be VERY tough.

Personally, I think taking higher-costed more powerful units is a smart bet, theoretically.
In play, it's usually a combination that wins though.

[Roxas]

[/quote]RichardD wrote:
Even if they made a 400-500 behemoth (hey, there's an idea - Behemoths and Leviathons!), the game itself wouldn't suffer from power creep so long as the huge guy was balanced; if a horde can beat a team can beat one guy, who can beat the horde - all depending on the best tactics/dice rolls - then the game is fine.
From my analysis of HS, this is an incorrect belief about the game.

From the old .net discussion about "Are high-powered unit viable in Heroscape?", what was determined was that it is too likely for a 400 point unit to dominate against normal units, because every turn they are activating their 400 points' worth, while the opponent is activating less than 100 points' worth, typically.

This makes the Leviathan player (or it was Hulk, in the previous discussion) simply a better choice to play, since his actions are more devastating than a small unit's.

There is a VERY fragile proportionally-more-expensive power cost in HS due to the rule that each unit can be activated up to 3 times per turn.
If they simply made a restriction that the Leviathan unit could only be used once per ROUND, than you could see some possibly-balanced high-powered units.
But it would be VERY tough.

Personally, I think taking higher-costed more powerful units is a smart bet, theoretically.
In play, it's usually a combination that wins though.


Very Very good point, If you are playing a 400 point game and someone chooses this Leviathan character for their whole army, they would be activating everything they've got every time it's their turn. the best choice in fighting back would be to do the same to them with a second 400 point character, and that would be just down right rediculas. Now, I'm not sure how big the games you guys play are, but HS generally points towards a 350-500 point (500 MAX) game, so i'd say it's unlikly that they'll go to much higher than the points they have racked up now (Jotun being the most expensive at 225)

[Roxas]

Well i kinda screwed up that quote thing, that was my first time, sorry bout that, the top part is a quote form "reapersaurus" on the previous message

Mabe someday i'll figure this whole thing out

[gibberish_47]

From the old .net discussion about "Are high-powered unit viable in Heroscape?", what was determined was that it is too likely for a 400 point unit to dominate against normal units, because every turn they are activating their 400 points' worth, while the opponent is activating less than 100 points' worth, typically.

Bingo. Spot on.

[Agent Minivann]

I think the game has great balance. There isn't this kind of balance in most CCG's. The money you have to shell out to make a decent deck in a CCG compared to buying a MS and having a decent selection of units is pretty remarkable.

The thing with the high point units is that there are still ways to take them down. A 400 point unit can still go down to a guy that has some sort of auto kill type special, can have order markers taken off (really bad if you spend all 400 points on one unit), or be mindshackled. There's wisdom in the old saying don't put all your eggs in one basket. Big point units can be a huge advantage AND disadvantage in HS.

[jcb231]

We tend to play 1500+ armies for big games.

I can say that almost every game, either or both of our armies contain at least one figure from every wave. That's not deliberate on our parts, just a sign that nearly every figure in this game is a perfectly viable choice.

I think that many newer figures actually make older figures better....and I think with the point system there is little to no power creep thus far.

Look at waves 4 and 4.5 for example....

Armoc Vipers, Aubrien Archers, and Theracus made Venoc Warlord more appealing and versatile.

Sacred Band gave new options for Marcus.

Valguard has nice synergy with the Tarns, improving their appeal.

[Snotwalker 8000]

I would draft an all MS army over an all expansion set army any day. This alone convinces me that power creep has not YET soiled the game... but I DO think this is a good discussion to have and to keep in mind... A friendly reminder to the developers now and then can't hurt.

And one quick statement about the huge figs in terms of game balance...

Mitonsoul!! ;)

[Jason]

-I agree with Minivan. With units that have the ability to remove order markers, remove abilities, auto kill, etc there is no way a balanced 400 point unit could dominate in an army of them vs a well thought out army. I notice that people have also missed the point that with only 1 unit you become predictable which makes it easier for the opponent

-Similarly if theoretically moving all your points in a round was an advantage then Charos should dominate in a 200 point game (I'll give you those 10 extra points). You can take Charos and I'll take 4 squads of Legion and we'll see who wins. If it is a balanced unit it wouldn't do great by itself.

-No unit by itself at 100 points would dominate by itself in a 100 point game

-No unit by itself would dominate a 200 point game

I don't see why suddenly one would at the 300 or 400 cost

[Drumline3469]

Alright you guys saying the whole thing about different point activation each turn make a very valid point. i think all of you are forgetting about squads though. If I send in the tagawa samurai then I can get three attack per turn and I can do damage while defending. I think if you pick smart the laviathon would be easy to take out. Even if you took Charros and a few squads because charros has a hefty attack defense and life and counter strike: therefor he could do damage attacking, and defending and weaken him alot, if not kill him. I would be highly interested in a laviathon

[toddrew]

Even if they made a 400-500 behemoth (hey, there's an idea - Behemoths and Leviathons!), the game itself wouldn't suffer from power creep so long as the huge guy was balanced; if a horde can beat a team can beat one guy, who can beat the horde - all depending on the best tactics/dice rolls - then the game is fine.From my analysis of HS, this is an incorrect belief about the game.

From the old .net discussion about "Are high-powered unit viable in Heroscape?", what was determined was that it is too likely for a 400 point unit to dominate against normal units, because every turn they are activating their 400 points' worth, while the opponent is activating less than 100 points' worth, typically.

This makes the Leviathan player (or it was Hulk, in the previous discussion) simply a better choice to play, since his actions are more devastating than a small unit's.

There is a VERY fragile proportionally-more-expensive power cost in HS due to the rule that each unit can be activated up to 3 times per turn.
If they simply made a restriction that the Leviathan unit could only be used once per ROUND, than you could see some possibly-balanced high-powered units.
But it would be VERY tough.

Personally, I think taking higher-costed more powerful units is a smart bet, theoretically.
In play, it's usually a combination that wins though.

Sorta late to this thread, and without delving too deep into abstractions, I think a balanced 400-500 point unit could definitely be made. Even with the argument that the 400-500 points are being activated per order marker, assuming that the bulk of the army is made up of that unit, the opponent has a pretty good idea of which unit will be activated for each turn and can plan accordingly. Lots of the high point figures have their intended longevity factored into the cost, which would dilute the 'points per activation', so to speak.

But, of course, if the 400 pointer has special abilities that enable it to do the actions of 3 100 pt heros per order marker, than that would be unbalancing.


IMHO, the way official units have been added, in general, have leaned towards a power erosion rather than a power creep - old units still stand up or are even strengthened by the additions.

[RichardD]

There's a VERY simple solution - you don't make a 400-point character that is as powerful as 4 lots of 100 point characters or units - you make him a bit weaker to compensate for the fact that you're activating all 400 points at once. Were your argument correct, there should be no 200 point characters, because it's too big an advantage to activate 200 points with a single marker when someone else is only using 100 points per turn. And where does that leave the poor old vipers & cowboys? Not worth picking at all, because every activation is only using 20-40 points, when you COULD have activated something worth 5-10 times as much!

It's all part of balancing the points cost carefully. So far they haven't got it too badly wrong (if at all); there's no reason at all why they couldn't pull off a balanced 400-point leviathon.

Oops - I see Tod's just beaten me to it in making all of these points :)

[reapersaurus]

just a point of order:
I have seen quite a few high-cost over-powering HS custom units.
In the 300+ range.
And every one was unbalancing, due to both bad design, and the conclusion I mentioned above from previous discussions on this.

I would welcome anyone who thinks a high-powered unit to be viable in HS to create or find a 400-500 point behemoth unit that is balanced.

Until we see one, than arguing that a "balanced 400 point unit could not dominate" is a bit like saying "a friendly alien visit would be good for the human race's psyche" - until we find one, than it's a bit presumptive to believe it exists, much less use the existence of one as a self-fulfilling argument point :lol:

(hint - by definition, a "balanced" 400 point unit wouldn't dominate, yes.)

Now, having said this, I feel I did a good job balancing my Oliphaunt (Mumakil) army's abilities, and he was around 285, IIRC.
It is not impossible to make a balanced high-powered unit - it is just UNLIKELY - what was determined was that it is too likely for a 400 point unit to dominate against normal units, because every turn they are activating their 400 points' worth, while the opponent is activating less than 100 points' worth, typically

[Jason]

I don't understand how one can conclude it's impossible to make a balanced 400 point unit when balanced pieces exist that cost almost 250 points. I do not get what makes 400 the magical unbalancing number

[reapersaurus]

I don't understand how one can conclude it's impossible to make a balanced 400 point unit when balanced pieces exist that cost almost 250 points. I do not get what makes 400 the magical unbalancing numberDo you do this purposely, or do you just accidentally misrepresent people's posts?
I'm serious.

Here is what I typed, so that noone thinks anyone said what Jason is saying they are: It is not impossible to make a balanced high-powered unit - it is just UNLIKELY - what was determined was that it is too likely for a 400 point unit to dominate against normal units, because every turn they are activating their 400 points' worth, while the opponent is activating less than 100 points' worth, typically

[shakey_snake]

YOU WANT TO CLICK ME
(doing so will ignore Jason, but you do really want to, I promise.) (http://heroscapers.com/community/viewtopic.php?mode=ignore&t=805&ignoree_id=98)

[Jason]

"what was determined was that it is too likely for a 400 point unit to dominate against normal units, because every turn they are activating their 400 points' worth, while the opponent is activating less than 100 points' worth, typically"

My point is still that is they can do it for 100+ point pieces and 200+ point pieces I do not see why they couldn't do it for 300+ point pieces or 400+ point pieces. The logic is similar

[RichardD]

So why isn't it hard to make a balanced 25 point unit? I don't understand. Surely at 25 points it's so horribly weak in comparison to all those 150 point units that no-one would ever draft it, let alone activate it in the game?

Yet we know that 25 points can work. 100 points can work. 225 points can work. There is no logical reason why 500 points couldn't work. It'd probably end up being a bit like drafting Ne Gok Sa - great when it works, ghastly when it doesn't, a real "**** or bust" choice.

The history of boardgames throws up a number of asymetrical designs that work extremely well (or at least provide extremely good games); OGRE, Netrunner, War of the Ring (FFG version), Scotland Yard, Space Hulk, Space Hulk and Space Hulk (so seriously unbalanced, to have all those useless close-combat guys against the super-deadly ranged guys; or was it that the ranged guys never stood a chance against the all-powerful close combat guys; or maybe the problem was that there's 30 of them and only 5 of us ... in reality, a game so well balanced and such a good game I HAD to list it three times!)

[RichardD]

Rats. I'm agreeing with Jason. the world must be about to end :twisted:

[RichardD]

YOU WANT TO CLICK ME

That's out of order IMO. If people want to ignore Jason, let them choose to do it under their own steam. If you want to tell people to iugnore Jason because he's wrong, trolling or whatever then do so openly. But encouraging people to click your link without telling them that it's rigged to trigger an "ignore Jason" command is extremely underhanded.

I hope that the mods come along soon and remove your post (and this one).

[shakey_snake]

Rats. I'm agreeing with Jason. the world must be about to end :twisted:Everyone in the entire world agrees with Jason in this case, but he doesn't realize it yet, so he's trying to argue with something.

[reapersaurus]

My point is still that is they can do it for 100+ point pieces and 200+ point pieces I do not see why they couldn't do it for 300+ point pieces or 400+ point pieces. The logic is similarPeople can jump 4' high.
Some skilled people can jump 6' high.
Some amazing people can jump 8' high.

That doesn;t mean that people can jump 16 feet high.
There are limitations in game designs, Jason.
Limitations which you may not be aware of- I don;t know, have you done unit analysis and created customs?

Or are you working off of pure simplistic comparisons that don't take into account the real game reasons why something like that would be difficult?

And you did not answer the important question - do you deliberately misrepresent people's posts, or is it accidental?

[Revdyer]

I did a double take wondering why Jason was just posting his name, then began to laugh and un-ignored him. No damage done to anyone and a good laugh along the way. (I did think, when I clicked on the link..."you know, Shakey's smart enough that I might be sent anywhere in the whole web by doing this")

[Jason]

I feel honored that he'd take the time to add that to his post. Ignoring yourself is amusing for a while :)

[Roxas]

You guys, as far as this whole 400+ unit, think of the logic here, odds are is that Heroscape is not going to be making one, and so therefor I don't think that custom ones should be done either. I mean im not gonna stock all of you to make sure none of you do it, but I think that custom Units should be Standard, nothing-to-shiny characters or squads, this does not however take away from the creativity of customs, just don't over price or overpower, it's as simple as that, the whole concept w/ HS is to have armies against each other in a mass war not an army versus a massive Beast, sure if you want a scenario like that be my guest, but as for overall game play, stick with well sized armies against well sized armies.

My oppinion, I don't think HS should go higher than 225 (Jotun) and that they should go for creative, not "Oh here comes something EVEN MORE POWERFUL"

[Agent Minivann]

You know that whole army vs the massive beast idea has some appeal. If only there were some balanced 400 point customs kicking around the web.

[Roxas]

Yes, THe Army versus Beast thing would be cool, but that sounds like it is screaming the word SCENARIO at me, for a regular game of heroscape, I see it as an army versus army thing, so personally I don't think that HS should officially make one, if you want one, then i guess make your own, my point is that HS shouldn't get to powerful in their makings, and that they should stick to lesser, more creative characters and teams

[Drumline3469]

Well you know what roxas? I will make one. Take that. By the way this is a period "." not to be confused with a comma ",". Periods are used to end sentences, whereas cammas are only ment to add interruptors or joint two sentences. Think about that one. Sorry but using the wrong homophone and run-on sentences bug the crap out of me for some reason.