Counterdrafting

[TheRealQ]

Several people have expressed the idea that they would like to build a strategy guide. At the time I wasn't fully supportive because I considered that the scope of the project could be huge. There are strategies concerning Drafting, Initial Character Placement, Combat Planning, Placement Markers, Movement and Positioning, Melee vs Range, Special Attack vs Normal, etc. It can easily be overburdening. With this thread I would like to address only one of those categories and in truth only a part of one. That subcategory is Counterdrafting.

Counterdrafting is when you use your opponent's draft choices to determine your own choices. Usually this is done by picking a unit that does one of the following:

Plays its strength against the opponents weakness
Plays its strength against the opponents strength
Denies the opponent a bonus he could use

This is not all inclusive but is a good base to evalute from. Thus when considering a counter you have to look at the opponents strength, weakness, and that from which he would highly benefit from.

This is to be a thread where we will discuss a counter for one particular unit each day. I will start with units from the Master Set then will eventually progress through the waves. I am starting it this way because I believe new players will most benefit from it this way. In addition when I offer my counter I will suggest units that are no newer than the one being countered. I would like everyone else though to feel free to suggest figures from any wave as this information will be useful as well.

Now for the first counter.

vs Sgt. Drake Alexander

I counter Sgt. Drake with Mimring. One of Sgt. Drakes strengths is his Tholian Speed. The weakness in this power is its susceptibility to Special Attacks. Mimring has arguably the most powerful SA in the Master Set. In addition the ultimate range of this attack is 8 which is greater than Drakes move by 3. This plus Mimrings superior movement means that Mimring can avoid ever being hit by Drake while constantly peppering him. Admittedly he costs 40 points more than Drake but he should be able to wipe out Drake without a scratch on him. Leaving him at full health to take out more than another 40 points of opposition.

Now what would you draft to counter your opponent drafting Sgt. Drake? Remember in a standard one on one draft the second pick and those thereafter consist of two picks. You can pick one or two units.

[Rylore]

Heya, I'm new to the boards, but I thought I would post here, nonetheless.

If just the master set figs were being used, I would choose either Carr, or the Izumi to handle Drake's deadliness in close combat.

Also, the rulebook states that in a standard draft, the first player chooses one card, and the second player then chooses two, and then drafting continues back and forth with each player drafting a single card until the points have been allotted for each army. Maybe most people play differently, I don't know. At any rate, there's my pick. If I could draft two cards on my drafting turn, I would just take Carr and the Izumi.

[CornPuff]

Mimring is a top notch pick. Just keep the beast at maximum range and it will be an time for a fireline BBQ.

Welcome to the boards, Rylore!
You are right about draft order, thats they way rules state it. I would watch out with the Izumi samurai though. Drake has little to fear from their counterstrike. In numbers, drake will kill an izumi 70% of the time. Only 13% of the time will the samurai hurt Drake with their counterstrike. Carr is a solid pick. Fight fire with fire.

Now, my counter.
I'd counter Drake with Venoc Vipers. Why?
Drake has one big strength that the vipers neutralize:
1. Very high attack. I mean, anyone can kill a viper. killing a viper with 6 attack dice is just silly.
Drake has three weaknesses that the vipers exploit:
1. Low move
2. Low Defense
3. Ability to only hit one figure at a time.
Venoc vipers can tear through drakes low defense. Drake can only kill one viper at a time. If three vipers frenzy on Drake, its usually curtains for the soldier. Get high ground with the vipers awesome speed to make it faster. You can draft 3 squads of vipers for a comparable cost to drake!

[Mud Turkey 13]

Daethwalker 8000 wouldn't be a bad pick against Drake. With his rapid fire special attack he could kill Drake in one turn since three attack die have an advantage over three defense die. You should be really careful to not get Deathwalker 8000 engaged with Drake because a lot of those eight defense die have a tendency to turn up blank. I wouldn't say that Deathwalker 8000 is the best pick to fight Drake, but I think he would be pretty good if Mimring is out of the picture, whether someone else has him or you can no longer afford him.

[shakey_snake]

Counterdrafting is when you use your opponent's draft choices to determine your own choices. Usually this is done by picking a unit that does one of the following:
...
Denies the opponent a bonus he could use
It's important to note that this only applies if you're playing the frequently played houserule of "one unique per board, multiple commons are reserved for the player taking the first unit."

This does not work in standard heroscape play.

[Mud Turkey 13]

Counterdrafting is when you use your opponent's draft choices to determine your own choices. Usually this is done by picking a unit that does one of the following:
...
Denies the opponent a bonus he could use
It's important to note that this only applies if you're playing the frequently played houserule of "one unique per board, multiple commons are reserved for the player taking the first unit."

This does not work in standard heroscape play.

Just because Player A has a Mimring doesn't mean your Mimring would be any less effective in killing Player A's Sgt. Drake.

[shakey_snake]

reread... :roll:

[Jason]

Most melee squads do well against Drake. Since Drake only gets 1 attack many squads could get in 4 attacks of 3 dice against him in 1 turn. The Roman Legion does well vs Drake

[TheRealQ]

The first round went well with some very good picks. Another thing to consider in all drafting situations is landscape. Smaller, tighter maps tend to favor melee units while large expansive ones favor ranged units. Now onto round 2.

vs Krav Maga Agents

I counter the KMA with Sgt. Drake. Most ranged units are useless against the KMA due to their ability to dodge ranged attacks and most melee units are shot up before they can engage them. Sgt. Drake is immune to their attacks at range thus can close into melee range. If you position him well, Sgt. Drake will draw first blood and with Drake vs a squad member that usually means death. Even if the two KMA left pounce on Drake they usually cannot do enough damage to slow him down. Then he can finish off the other two one at a time.

I would also like to mention the Elite Onyx Vipers. Not every Master Set has the EOV so I didn't start with them. The EOV are as evasive as the KMA and can approach without being shot down. With their high mobility they should draw first blood and in many circumstances the first swipe will be the last. If not, there is always the chance for Frenzy letting the EOV attack over again thus increasing their likelihood of a kill.

[Rÿchean]

MBS - take away their defense roll
Either Samurai - 6 move closes on range 7, plus high defense to wether the attacks

just a couple

[jdtenor]

EOV & Sgt Drake are great choices, also Deathwalker 7000 has stealth dodge and high defence, Me-burk-sa can paralize (no defense dice) has high move & decent range, also never works for me but there's also Dund's crippling gaze but when you don't have these you can do 2 things keep shooting them at range because it doesn't matter if you get 1 hit or 4 hits all you need is 1 hit and krav maga eventually roll blanks, the second strategy is to move your attacking units in two direction as to split them the Krav Maga Agents once one agents dead you likely to get them all.

[jdtenor]

EOV & Sgt Drake are great choices, also Deathwalker 7000 has stealth dodge and high defence, Me-burk-sa can paralize (no defense dice) has high move & decent range, also never works for me but there's also Dund's crippling gaze but when you don't have these you can do 2 things keep shooting them at range because it doesn't matter if you get 1 hit or 4 hits all you need is 1 hit and krav maga eventually roll blanks, the second strategy is to move your attacking units in two direction as to split them the Krav Maga Agents once one agents dead you likely to get them all.

[Rÿchean]

Keep shooting does work; a lot like strats against DW8K. Get your shots in, sooner or later, they will whiff.

I have seen people pass up ranged shots on KM because of stealth dodge and shoot at some other figure. I think it is better to try and fail then not try at all, when it comes to KM. You have to keep firing at them; Whiff'in with 3 defense die is common.

[peterm]

Yeah Major Q-9 might work well for that, although that's a lot of points to invest in a "counter."
Use the special attack and keep throwing one attack die from range.

[Jason]

The other way to counter the Krav is to select fast units that can engage them

[AmishBurrito]

I agree with the keep shooting strategy, the average # shields is 1 for KMA with 3D, so if they make below average they die

[CornPuff]

I think Drake is the best pick, but that's been mentioned..

Deadeye Dan is a bit map specific, but he has a 50% shot at taking out a krav. I think Sudema, Nilfheim and Braxas are also great, albeit expensive, options. The Sudema effect (the same as the Braxas ability) has a very high chance to kill a Krav. Nilf has 3 chances, and hihg enough defense to make it there.

I think once you kill one Krav Maga, you've completely neutered them. I still think you should kill the last two, but they are a lot less powerful.

[JELEINEN]

Counterdrafting is when you use your opponent's draft choices to determine your own choices. Usually this is done by picking a unit that does one of the following:
...
Denies the opponent a bonus he could use
It's important to note that this only applies if you're playing the frequently played houserule of "one unique per board, multiple commons are reserved for the player taking the first unit."

This does not work in standard heroscape play.

What does this have to do what you quoted? He's saying that picking a figure that your opponent can use to enhance his other units is a good strategy.

[bighamrules]

thanks for the tips

[Agent Minivann]

Counterdrafting is when you use your opponent's draft choices to determine your own choices. Usually this is done by picking a unit that does one of the following:
...
Denies the opponent a bonus he could use
It's important to note that this only applies if you're playing the frequently played houserule of "one unique per board, multiple commons are reserved for the player taking the first unit."

This does not work in standard heroscape play.

What does this have to do what you quoted? He's saying that picking a figure that your opponent can use to enhance his other units is a good strategy.

I think that he means when drafting from a selection with many of the same unique figures (as happens with multiple MSes) you can't eliminate a special that is dependant on another army card. It isn't a viable strategy unless there is a limit due to only having one of the card/unit.

For example you have two MS worth of figures and your opponent drafts DW9K, and you draft the Zettian Guards so your opponent can't use the range enhancement. According to the rules, your opponent can still draft the guards, but many people house rule a one unique per game.

[fejkl]

EOV's do well vs. the Kravs. Drake's alright, too.

If you can get Major X close enough (Theracus, Brunak), then he would have no issues taking them down with 4 attack and 7 defense...assuming they're bunched somewhat together.

Who's next?