Base a Competitive Army Around: Shades of Bleakewoode

[Chimpy]

After the last (http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=4543&start=0/url) Base a Competitive Army Around: discussion flopped I took a little vacation from these threads. Now that good while has gone by I feel the need to discuss the merits of one under-used unit. So, I proudly proclaim the kickoff of

Round IV of
Base a Competitve Army Around Competition:

Battle for the Shades of Bleakewoode

Recently called "the worst squad in wave 6" by a professional in the field, these ghouls have been abandoned in favor of other Dawn of Darkness units. Let us see what we can do to make these units a force to reckon with on the battle field.

Construct a 500pt army that contains the Shades of Bleakewood. Remember, you can use as many Shades as you like as long as they fit into the 500pt scale. As always, explain why you chose the army you did.

The Battle for the Shades Begin!

[Aldin]

Okay Chimpy, I love this one. Here's my shot at it:

2xShades
4xDrones
Krav Maga
500 points

Note first that this is a speedy force. The idea behind this army is to use the Krav Maga to force your opponent to engage and then the Drones as a shock force to wreak havoc. As soon as your opponent's army is disorganized, in sweep the Shades to pick off targets of opportunity and to try for the soul devours against heroes. Each of the three components to this force is a different type of threat and trying to react to all of them causes failure. Devouring an enemy's Raelin in the midst of your own Drones would be priceless.

~Aldin, who recognizes that Shades sans enemy heroes are just pricey, boosted RoboRats

[AmishBurrito]

Raelin
Brunak
Braxas
Shades

Just carry Raelin around with brunak, and that makes him one tough guy. Keep braxas nearby and use braxas to take out squads. Shades should be able to keep up easily, and throw them at the heroes once u get the squads thinned out a little. Many people are too afraid of the mind shackle that they'll target the shades, so if they stay close to raelin, they are pretty tough to kill and will distract the enemy while you keep beating the crap outta them with brunak/braxas.

[Tiberius]

I would combine the shades with units that can tie up other units and keep them in place like gladiatrons and major X17 or the robo-rats.

[playa1]

This is what I've been itching to try:

Braxas 210
Kelda
Shades x2 200
Total 490

I have found that Kelda is a worthwhile pick to help out Braxas (at least in 2 player games -- it is so annoying to opponents when you heal Braxas from only one or two life points) and that Braxas is the best squad killer in the game. However, the shades scare the pants off of unique heroes. It will be tricky choosing the order markers, because if you choose Kelda at the wrong time or if you let Braxas die, you will be defeated. I am thinking that this might not work well, but it will at least be a lot of fun. It may not seem like an army designed around the shades, but I've been experiementing a lot with them, and having a good squad killer is the key. A board that encourages flying doesn't hurt.

Of course, a lack of range is a problem here, but with an army that can fly, a heavily ranged enemy can be dealt with -- especially since the shades can fly so well across the board. Another option is

Shades x 2 200
Thorgrim 80
Aub. Archers 70
Sudema 140

Total 490

This army has some range, but the elves won't last long since there will be only 3. The key here is to use thorgrim to protect archers and shades until he dies. He then can boost Sudema and allow her to attack. I think this one will also be tough, because thorgrim is best when attacking and w/o other high attack units to boost, he will not be of much use, so I would try to put him out front and use him as a stopping point for the shades and archers to move into range. The shades can move around him and then use the next turn to grab glyphs or height or find cover near enemy champions. The archers could sit aroung thorgrim within range of enemies and try to frenzy. Sudema is cleanup and she isn't the best cleanup option, but hopefully she won't need to be. The shades are not the worst units to use to attack squad members (they do not do well against samauri or gladiotrons), so I wouldn't be afraid to use them to engage orcs or other ranged squads so long as you can grab some height which isn't hard with the shades. All in all, a very risky army -- this is theoryscape at its best.

[kenjib]

So the shades are most useful against the higher cost heroes. That means we need some squad killers, so I'll pick the Marrden Hounds - bane of squads everywhere. The hounds also have some nice staying power so they don't totally flop when facing off against heroes. Braxas would also work well here and could definitely sub in for the hounds but then we are starting to really get squeezed for points so I like the hounds better.

Finally we are going to need some range here to round out the team. With 120 points remaining some of our options include KMA, Kaemon Awa, Nikita Agents, Marro Warriors & Me-Burq-Sa, Marro Warriors & Deadeye Dan, 2 Roman Archers, and airborne elite. I'm going to go with Kaemon Awa because he is the most versatile (the special attack is especially welcome here), and this army needs a well rounded, versatile combatant like that. The KMA would make a good pick too because they are a great ranged unit counter - much needed here. Nikita might also be useful to protect the shades in the early rounds while they get into position to swarm an opponent's unique heroes. It's a tough call between these three.

200 Shades x2
180 Marrden Hounds x2
120 Kaemon Awa

500 points

When fighting with this army, positioning and tactics are everything. It's got a workable counter to most units out there - though with the shades in the mix you're always going to be at less than full potential if your opponent is not fielding many heroes. You need to engage your opponent's units with the right counter as much as possible and avoid letting your units get countered in return. Smart order marker management can win or lose with this one.

[GaryLASQ]

not an army building tip here but...i can see Shades being fun in the draft.

say i draft some Vipers. as a counter draft, my opponent drafts Mittens. hah! i'll draft Shades and their first mission is to go steal Mittens. :)

this is only true if you play where Uniques must be unique to the battle instead of a player.

[Chimpy]

First off, I will say that I do not have the Shades and I have never played with them. My ideas are really just theoryscape as I cannot test them out. That being said I will continue.

Looking at the shades stats we see several things. Their most apparent trait is their speed. They have a movement of 7, a move equal to or more than the shooting range of almost all units. In addition, they have stealth flying, a truly terrifying ability. They can bypass anything; even units like the robo-rats do not get in their way. Indeed, the Shades are easily the most mobile squad in the game.

This trait gives them several tactical advantages on the battlefield. They can rush through enemy forces and attack the rear or the flank of the enemy. Support heroes that were once heavily guarded can fall pray to the ghouls. Enemy ranged units do not dare to attack the Shades; he Shades are easily in striking distance of anybody who decides to attack from afar.

There second best ability only augments these roles: the Shades of Bleakewoode's high defense. While 4 shields is common among melee units, such defense is a rarity among the more mobile forces in Heroscape. This defense makes them flying tanks. They can easily withstand fire from ranged enemies without losing a man. (ghost?) They can also engage in melee fights and come out as the victor.

The tactical advantages only increase with their larger-than-average defense. They can engage all kinds of ranged units by surviving the initial volley and they can attack entrenched heroes knowing that they will survive the blows given to them by the surrounding hordes. After they take down their target they can disappear into the wind and head towards their next victim. I could argue that the Shades are not expensive robo-rats as Aldin describes them, but they are a common form of the Ninja of the Northern Wind.

Comparing them to the Ninja brings out their biggest fault. The Shades have a low attack. While not so bad when they are engaged with Raelin, or a Swog Rider, the Shades cannot assassinate high defense targets like Q9. This also prohibits them from taking on some of the more expensive melee units. Their 2 attacks just do not work when attacking a Knight, Minion, or Samurai. If clever maneuvering is used one might be able to get a height advantage, but this is not something you can count on to win a game.

Their final ability, the Soul Devour, is pretty fickle. Unless you have a glyph of Lodin in your control you are going to have a hard time getting this to work. Smart players will know that and not bother keeping their heroes away from the Shades. Against players with a little less experience you can use the Shades as great distractions to the opponent; they will move heroes away from you and squads right where you want them.


Now that I have had my analysis it is time for me to build my army. It seems to me that the Shades can be used in two ways. They can cause havoc behind enemy lines creating a nuisance that distracts from your really powerful units, or they can be used as an elite strike team to take down the heroes that help the enemy army the most.

Of the two plans, I prefer the second. To have a useable force I will need at least two squads. My first 200 hundred points have been chosen:

2X Shades of Bleakewood- 200pts

I know need a way to counter the weaknesses of the Shades. To fill this role I think I will choose Braxas. She can destroy the higher defense squads that cause the Shades trouble and easily dispatch of the hoards that are left leaderless after the Shade attack.


2X Shades of Bleakewood- 200pts

Braxas- 210pts

I am now left with 90 points to finish up my army. To fill this last part up I want something that can take on some of the larger, high defense heroes that Braxas can't burn and the Shades can't kill. For the last unit I choose Crixus. His one-shield defense will allow him to survive long enough to get to those big scary heroes. (IF, and only if, he does not get caught up on the way. But that is why we have Braxas.) His five attack should be able to put a big enough dent in any hero for the rest of the team to mop up the remains.

So what do you think?


Crixus- 90pts

Braxas- 210pts

2X Shades of Bleakewoode- 200pts

A total of 500pts

[Chimpy]

Okay Chimpy, I love this one. Here's my shot at it:

2xShades
4xDrones
Krav Maga
500 points
The idea behind this army is to use the Krav Maga to force your opponent to engage and then the Drones as a shock force to wreak havoc. As soon as your opponent's army is disorganized, in sweep the Shades to pick off targets of opportunity and to try for the soul devours against heroes. Each of the three components to this force is a different type of threat and trying to react to all of them causes failure.


I see the logic in your plan but I think that it is to dependent on your drones moving all nine units at a time. If you cannot move a huge mass of units towards your enemy at once your plan fails. The enemy can focus on your individual squads without being overwhelmed.

To stop this problem I would replace the 4X drones with 3X zombies. You get the same number of units and a guarantee that you will be able to move 6 units at once.

Note: I do not own the Zombies either. Theoryscape again.

[Stealth Dodge]

*The only Heroscape "profesionals" are those that work for Hasbro

The shades are definitely not the worst from Wave 6, just possibly the most situational

[Aldin]

Chimpy,

Four shields is pretty good, but it's still gonna suffer an unacceptable attrition rate against three attack dice at a cost of 33 points per figure. The only way to make Shades effective in my opinion is to make your opponent more worried about another aspect of your force. In my army I tried to pair them up with two other forces that have the same feature, namely that they are only truly effective when your opponent can't really focus their attention on them.

In theory it plays out like I wrote - the Krav Maga force your opponent to play melee. This is a HUGE assumption which the Krav do not necessarily justify, but the fear of the Krav is such that I feel it is usually justified. Second, the Drones start rolling - they shouldn't be racing across the board, just to where the Krav's opponents have parked. A lucky activation or two is gravy - but 3/3 is a solid attack and defense number and combined with the fear that I can activate all nine while engaged, hopefully the enemy is looking elsewhere as I... Third, in sweep the Shades. Now is where their mobility plays into picking targets of opportunity, whether weak defenders or unique heroes. At no time do you sacrifice the ability to go back and active one of the other units, but it seems that this type of progression is ideal for the Shades.

I wish I could buy them as tanks, but they cost more than double a knight, more than triple a Rat AND they only get three figs per activation unlike the other two. Ninjas just aren't a reasonable comparison because they serve an entirely different function as a genuine attack squad with a defensive advantage that goes beyond their three dice.

~Aldin, disengagingly

[Velenne]

Wow, great discussion going on here. Definately working with some tacticians.

So what do you think?


Crixus- 90pts

Braxas- 210pts

2X Shades of Bleakewoode- 200pts

A total of 500pts

I like this a great deal. It's an awesome way to take the focus off the Shades. I might swap Braxas for Nilf and use the 115 on someone a little better than Crixus, but for all out fear factor nothing beats Braxas.

[Chimpy]

I like this a great deal. It's an awesome way to take the focus off the Shades. I might swap Braxas for Nilf and use the 115 on someone a little better than Crixus, but for all out fear factor nothing beats Braxas.

When I think about it you are right. Nilf should work just as well as the anti-swarm unit as Braxas would. I really did cringe when I put Crixus on there- it was between him and Ne-Gok-Sa. Using your plan I could use someone else like Drake or maybe even the KMA. (Then I could pull off a mix of my plan and Aldin's!)

I wish I could buy them as tanks, but they cost more than double a knight, more than triple a Rat AND they only get three figs per activation unlike the other two. Ninjas just aren't a reasonable comparison because they serve an entirely different function as a genuine attack squad with a defensive advantage that goes beyond their three dice.


You are right; they do cost triple a rat and double a knight. But a Knight has to fight his way through the enemy. A rat can do even less than a Shade when it gets there. The Shades can choose any target they want to attack and survive a good turn or two while in the midst of the enemy. (A rat and knight can also survive in the midst of their enemies, but they have a much harder time getting there.)

I will use a standard orc archer army as an example of this plan. Once the enemy ranks start to move into firing distance you rush your ghouls forward. They immediately engage the Swogs that are supporting the archers. If all goes well you will have killed at least one. Even if this is not accomplished the enemy will be putting all of his firepower on the Shades that are killing his support units.

At this point, when the Archers are a little weaker due to their separation from the Swogs you bring Nilfhiem/Braxas in. The dragon utterly devastates the weakened Orcs. (Ideally.) Now you can use your hero to engage Krug/Mimring and weaken him. Ether your Shades or your dragon should be able to finish him off.

Now this is not full proof. High defense armies like a Minion swarm or a multiple Samurai force spells death to this configuration.


Aldin, I think your idea is a good one, and it has a high probability of working. It does seem to have two weaknesses though.

1. Just as your enemy will have a hard time fighting against three distinct forces simultaneously, you will have a hard time controlling three distinct unit types simultaneously. A very skilled player can get around this, but it seems that a simple mistake early in your maneuvers will mess up the rest of the game for you.

2. Squad killing armies (Think Braxas and Q9) will strike these guys down. I can see Braxas eliminating all of the forces you move forward each turn as they get closer. You would never have the chance to spring the trap.

If you see any big hole in my logic feel free to point them out.

Chimpy.

[Aldin]

Chimpy, those are both good points. Personally I feel that playing the Shades competitively is something that only a pretty good player should be considering anyway. They are pricey, a bit fragile and rather esoteric in their use. Thus, though I acknowledge your first point at the same time I feel that most who would use such an army would be skilled enough to do it well - though obviously making a few mistakes would mean it was all over :D

As for Q9/Braxas/Nilf... all it takes is one lucky roll, either by the Drones to mass and destroy or from a group of Shades on an initiative switch between turns. Granted those are the problem units for this army, but they are also the choicest targets and the ones my enemy will not want to expose to the Shades.

~Aldin, devouring Raelin's soul

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

Aldin, your army is totally sound. I keep thinking Reavers should take the place of the Drones. They're fast as well, but their attack stinks.
To offset and compliment the high cost of 2 squads of shades, you've filled it with cheap, potent, melee squads with a potentially devastating activation ability.
Drones are nothing to scoff at regardless if that D20 to activate 9 is rolled.
Drones are nasty and when 6-9 are activated, things get scary for squads and heroes alike.
I'd like to try your army some time. I'm sure it would work better than the Zombes/Shades combo I played against Guerillanator last week.

[Chimpy]

Speaking of Zombies, why not use them instead of the Drones in your army? (Sorry, not much respect for the Drones.) It seems to me that the Zombies would be a better choice; you get the same amount of units and you know for sure that you will move 6 zombies. (Instead of the 3 Drones you will most likely get to move.) The Zombies just seem to be a better choice in this situation.


P.S. I know that I had a very similar post just a while ago. It wasn't answered, give me a break.

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

Speaking of Zombies, why not use them instead of the Drones in your army? (Sorry, not much respect for the Drones.) It seems to me that the Zombies would be a better choice; you get the same amount of units and you know for sure that you will move 6 zombies. (Instead of the 3 Drones you will most likely get to move.) The Zombies just seem to be a better choice in this situation.

I've more play time with Drones than Zombies.
Uneven terrain is going to mess with the Morindan SA. I endured this frustration just last week. The map I made was not fairly even and knowing this, I still drafted the Zombies just to get some Wave 6 multiples on the board. When the terrain was even, the sacrifice made, and the stars aligned perfectly, I was in prime positioning to roll 6 attack dice. Then came Jotun's Wild Swing.
So keep in mind the Zombies get clustered doing this. And consider all those nasty special attacks that just loooove to bust up a cluster party.
Drones can be spread out and deal more of an attack value (as opposed to 3 unadjacent zombies) - even with just three of them - and they do not fall prey to Shotguns, Wild Swings, Explosions, and other nasty special attacks.

I do agree Zombies would be a nice draft with the Shades, but under optimal conditions.
Drones have a base attack of 3 and move faster than zombies. Zombies do get to move 4 spaces, six zombies at a time, and they're a tad more expensive in points.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see the Zombies rock in a battle. But I think the Drones are a great pick as well.

Respect those Drones! They're tough!

Edited: Respest to Respect!

[Aldin]

Thankee, Hex! Use 'em with my blessing. It'd be nice to think an army I designed could take Guerillanator, even though I couldn't quite pull it off myself ;)

Chimpy, Hex covered most of my response on the Zombie issue. Consider this - it takes Zombies three turn markers to get to where the Drones can get in two. That, plus the higher attack sells me on the Drones. Put another way, Drones are far more tactically flexible than Zombies. Whereas I would have to use Zombies a certain way regardless of what I was up against, I could afford to use Drones situationally.

~Aldin, droning on

[Chimpy]

Okay, what do you guys think of this army:

Nilfheim

Shades of Bleakewoode 2X

Krav Maga Agents

This army follows the basic principals I stated in my last army if not more defined. Nilfheim is my anti-swarm guy, the Krav Maga pretty much reak havoc among enemy heroes while the Shades do what I outlined in my last overly long post. (Sorry I do not feel like writing it all over again.) Is this a thumb up or thumbs down army?

[Velenne]

Nilfheim

Shades of Bleakewoode 2X

Krav Maga Agents

Is this a thumb up or thumbs down army?

:up:

[Aldin]

*sheesh* What's a greeter to do when Agent X-127 is quick off the mark like this http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=6690 ?

On the theory he will look here,

Welcome to the boards, Jamesblonde!

On behalf of our hairy and licensed to kill community I extend to you a laurel and a hearty handshake.

~Aldin, double-faux seven

[DarkDino]

Wow, great discussion going on here. Definately working with some tacticians.

So what do you think?


Crixus- 90pts

Braxas- 210pts

2X Shades of Bleakewoode- 200pts

A total of 500pts

I like this a great deal. It's an awesome way to take the focus off the Shades. I might swap Braxas for Nilf and use the 115 on someone a little better than Crixus, but for all out fear factor nothing beats Braxas.
Very Good Army, but in the boards around my place Crixus inpsires feelings of nausea and extreme annoyance, And Braxas would make my friends figures run for cover. That army would make my friends poop themselves.

[killercactus]

Let's let a random n00b take a stab at this....

Shades of Bleakwoode x2 - 200
Deathreavers x3 - 120
Major Q9 - 180

Total = 500.

Granted, i have never played competitively (yet), but with the few people i play with, I see a pattern or two. One of them is putting some tough to kill units up front and backing them up with either a supporting character or a big gun to clean up the mess. One examply would be the Krav in the front + Raelin. My strategy would be to get the rats out to tie the Krav up and fly the Shades over to wreak some havoc on Raelin. Also, with the rats and shades all over the place tying people up in engagements, Q9 can have a field day picking people off. My weakness is very low attack - Q9 is the only one that packs any punch at all, but this army would surely be very annoying to play against at the very least.

[toddrew]

Let's let a random n00b take a stab at this....

Shades of Bleakwoode x2 - 200
Deathreavers x3 - 120
Major Q9 - 180

Total = 500.


Pain in the butt army to face IMHO, one obvious shortcoming is the ability to pack a whallop punch, but 5d at range 8 from Q9 might qualify. If I can pull myself away from BattleLore, I'd like to try this one out.

[kenjib]

I'd go for that. In my book, Q9, 3xdeathreavers, and anything is a great army. :lol:

Another advantage is that the shades and reavers are all good glyph grabbers.

[toddrew]

I'd go for that. In my book, Q9, 3xdeathreavers, and anything is a great army. :lol:

Another advantage is that the shades and reavers are all good glyph grabbers.

Exactly my thoughts - Q9 decked out in rat armor is tough to handle.

[Chimpy]

You know, I was going to start a new one of these today but it seems this thread still has some life in it.

[MrBarkypants]

We've been doing 2 shades and 4 zombies. Shades go after the heros first, then nothing but zombies.

BTW, I hate playing against zombies. I've been killing them off at a bout a 1:3 ratio, but man when your dead guy gets replaced with another of those *ss pains....

:zombie: :zombie: :zombie: :zombie: :zombie: :zombie: :zombie: :zombie: :zombie: :zombie: :zombie: :zombie: :zombie: :zombie:

[playa1]

We've been doing 2 shades and 4 zombies. Shades go after the heros first, then nothing but zombies.

BTW, I hate playing against zombies. I've been killing them off at a bout a 1:3 ratio, but man when your dead guy gets replaced with another of those *ss pains....

:zombie: :zombie: :zombie: :zombie: :zombie: :zombie: :zombie: :zombie: :zombie: :zombie: :zombie: :zombie: :zombie: :zombie:

So use a lot of large figures. The Deathstalkers and marro hounds are good for this.

[MrBarkypants]

[quote=MrBarkypants]We've been doing 2 shades and 4 zombies. Shades go after the heros first, then nothing but zombies.

BTW, I hate playing against zombies.

So use a lot of large figures. The Deathstalkers and marro hounds are good for this.

I didn't notice the small/medium part. I don't have any hounds but I do have 3 sets of DS.

We've been playing armies by general lately. As I mentioned in the "what if HS ended" thread, Einar needs a dragon. I now realize he needs ANY large or huge figures.

[GaryLASQ]

i'm starting to think you don't need to base an army around the Shades.

my son has played just 1 squad on 3 different occasions and each time he's Soul Devoured something -- Saylind one game, Tornak another game, and he just grabbed Q9 in a game today.

each time they didn't really go with anything else in his army.

[scorpiusx]

X2 shades
deathstalkers
reavers
subakna or mimring

use the reavers and stalkers early to tie up units. then, the shades can come in and do their thing. once everything is over, use subakna or mimring to come in and clean up. with 7 attack, subakna would probably be better.

[MrBarkypants]

My son and I just played. He had red and blue samurai, braxas and 2 sets of Samurai archers. I took 2 shades, krav, ninjas, and Raelin.

My first 2 turns were on shades and 3rd on Raelin. His 1st 3 on Braxas.

Braxas took out 1 shade. My First roll with my second shade devours Braxas.

In 3 rounds I used Braxas to poison his entire team under the watchful eyes of Raelin. I moved a total of 5 figures in that game including Braxas. The Samuria archers w/o hight advantage whittled Braxas down to 1 life point.

In other news, in the game we played before that one, my 2 squads of Samurai archers and 2 squads of THE Emperium took out 4 squads of zombies, 2 squads of shades, Kiova and 1 squad of wolfmen. They did have Taro and Kiova watching over them. The shades took over Kiova from me, but it was after of THE Emperium were sliced apart and the zombies were no longer undead.

That means in 5 or 6 games we've played the Shades, they have sucked away a soul in all but one game.

[jcb231]

I skimmed the thread and didn't see this posted, but I thought it would be fun. Not the most competitive army by far, but a very fun one.

-Shades X2 200
-Kee-Mo 130
-Ne-Gok 90
-Raelin 80

Alternatively, two sets of Deathreavers could be swapped for Raelin.

This army would be all about mind-shackling. If the army build went up to 600, add another set of shades or morsbane for negation. The goal is just to ruin your opponent's army or steal it outright, not kill it.

[feekonea]

I skimmed the thread and didn't see this posted, but I thought it would be fun. Not the most competitive army by far, but a very fun one.

-Shades X2 200
-Kee-Mo 130
-Ne-Gok 90
-Raelin 80

Alternatively, two sets of Deathreavers could be swapped for Raelin.

This army would be all about mind-shackling. If the army build went up to 600, add another set of shades or morsbane for negation. The goal is just to ruin your opponent's army or steal it outright, not kill it.

hahahha! That army sounds awesome! :D

[LtBardolph]

200 Shades of Bleakwoode x2
150 Mimring
025 Swog Rider
120 Arrow Gruts x3
495 TOTAL

The Mimring/Swog/Arrow Grut cluster goes after squads from range. Once they're done, the Shades sweep the board clean.

[GIR]

I skimmed the thread and didn't see this posted, but I thought it would be fun. Not the most competitive army by far, but a very fun one.

-Shades X2 200
-Kee-Mo 130
-Ne-Gok 90
-Raelin 80

Alternatively, two sets of Deathreavers could be swapped for Raelin.

This army would be all about mind-shackling. If the army build went up to 600, add another set of shades or morsbane for negation. The goal is just to ruin your opponent's army or steal it outright, not kill it.

I'd tried this army this morning, didn't work.

[goaliescaper]

lol don't mean to necro the thread but maybe,

Shades 100
Cyprien 250
Sonya 295
Krug 415
Kelda 495

my choice is the ultimate "hero" army using the shades to take control of another hero or 2 from my opponent, cyrpien to kill, krug to intimadate and kelda to heal them so i can restart

[The B.I.V.]

Too few Shades, methinks. That particular army would do better with 2x rats or somesuch. 1 squad of Shades is just too unreliable...oh, and Cyprien and Sonya heal themselves, and you don't really wanna heal Krug, so Kelda is kinda useless...'course, I'm much better at critiquing armies than building them myself...

Brandon

[pjperl]

I think that this would be a good choice...


2x Shades
Marro warriors
Krug
2x Arrow Gruts
Swog Rider
Marro Stingers


With this army you could send out Krug and the Gruts in order to force your opponent to send out his big guys. Then you can send out the Shades. or...

You can keep a Marro Warrior back behind Krug and the shades, and send out the other three Warriors. Then you can force your oppenent to move his figures toward yours or else face a never ending line of Marro Warriors.

[Superm9]

Sorry for reviving the thread, :D but I have a competitive army that I want opinions on BEFORE I go out and buy two more sets of Shades and Orcs instead of those 4th Mass sets on HouseMouse I've been eyeing:

Cyprien Eisenwein - 150 pts.
3x Shades of Bleakwoode - 300 pts.
Marro Warriors - 50 pts.
--------------------
500 points

Before everyone dives in on me for spending 3/5ths of my points on Shades, I do have a strategy in mind regarding this army.

Lets start with why I chose Cyprien; it was because he and the Shades have so much in common. The core of this entire army is built around the fastest hero and the fastest squad in the game; the fact that they both have stealth flying means that, until I pull out the MWs, I can choose where and when the battle takes place. My opponent just moved Q9 towards my Shades? Can't have that; let's move them out of his Queglix range and go attack that tasty squad member that my opponent neglected to place order markers on. My opponent just swarmed Cyprien with 4th Mass? That's ok, he'll just Stealth Fly out and life drain his wounds away on other squaddies.

The goal of this army is complete, total guerilla warfare. The Shades and Cyprien take turns being the main antagonists to my opponent, forcing him to pick one to concentrate on and leave the other open to wreak havoc.

I would imagine my strategy being something like this:

1st Round -First, move Shades onto the glyphs - with 7 move and Stealth Flying, there is no way that any other unit is achieving glyph control first (unless it is a very small map and I lose initiative); then, Move Cyprien to a sheltered spot near the middle of the board, within striking distance of the enemy.

Proceeding Rounds - Use both the Shades and Cyprien interchangeably to attack the less-defended portions of your opponents army, with each targeting different units. Have Cyprien focus on squads, as his Life Drain and Chilling Touch will heal any wounds they inflict on him. Use the Shades against heroes, waiting until your opponent is focused on dealing with Cyprien to outflank him and mob his now-neglected heroes, using Stealth Flying to gain height on them. He then has 2 options: either ignore the Shades and concentrate on Cyprien, allowing them to wound and possibly (even probably, if you can get 4+ Shades adjacent to the hero(es) in question) Soul Devour them; or he can shift his attention towards the Shades, allowing Cyprien to survive another day.

You may ask, "Why 3 squads of Shades? Isn't 2 costly enough?" Well, three squads would garuntee the longer survivability and the ability for the Shades to take more punishment. I want the Shades to be able to take a few losses and keep operating at max effectiveness; thus, three squads - noone can kill 9 figures with 4 (even 5, if you use height to your advantage (pun intended :D)) defence in a very short time, and the idea would be to keep the majority of your army outside of your opponent's range of attack.

So, what do you think?

[dok]

It seems like a decent army. It's hopeless against 'trons, and struggles against 4th Mass/10th foot or strong melee armies (Minions, Gruts, Knights), but it should do well against most other armies.

[Superm9]

Yeah, that IS this armie's one great weakness... it completely fails against the glads/blasts armies, as the glads, using their cyberclaws, can remove the best tactical advantage I have (high move plus Stealth Flying). Against 4th Mass/10th Foot though, I think that it could have a chance at winning, and against some melee armies, it could definitely prosper; for example, while Krug might be feared by many, if I can engage his Arrow Gruts with Cyprien and him with Shade swarms, I could hold off attacking while he weakly attacks me, and I could soul devour him eventually; I could see this army doing at least ok against an Arrow Grut/Krug army (assuming I don't risk damaging Krug prior to engaging him ;)).

Thanks! Keep the comments coming!

[Nathify]

How bout'

Dund 110 (Don't call me an idiot yet)
Shades x2 310
Zombies x3 490
Isamu 500

If you think my logic is stupid, sorry, after all I don't have the shades.
Anyway I was thinking: Keep the zombies and Isamu hidden cause you'll need em' later. Keep the shades somewhere they could swoop in on anyone near or in your starting zone. Keep Dund highly elevated, but near the front. Now wait for the opponent to come to you. As soon as you can, crippling gaze an opponent's stronger fig. (Nifhlem, Charos, Cyprien etc.) Then swoop the shades in and try to take them over. If you fail to crippling gaze send in your zombies to attack, Or if they follow Jandar send in Isamu. Repeat this till you win! :D

[Simpsons Scaper]

But with OM placement, how will you tell if Dund will Crippling Gaze or not?

[killercactus]

Yeah, that IS this armie's one great weakness... it completely fails against the glads/blasts armies, as the glads, using their cyberclaws, can remove the best tactical advantage I have (high move plus Stealth Flying). Against 4th Mass/10th Foot though, I think that it could have a chance at winning, and against some melee armies, it could definitely prosper; for example, while Krug might be feared by many, if I can engage his Arrow Gruts with Cyprien and him with Shade swarms, I could hold off attacking while he weakly attacks me, and I could soul devour him eventually; I could see this army doing at least ok against an Arrow Grut/Krug army (assuming I don't risk damaging Krug prior to engaging him ;)).

Thanks! Keep the comments coming!

I'm not trying to rain on you because I do like the army, but against Mass, it's basically hopeless. Unless they're playing Drake II - that might give you a longshot chance. If you're gonna beat Mass, Cyprien would have to roll some amazing dice the whole game. The Shades and MW's will just get obliterated by WTF. If they have Drake, Devouring him might help some.

I think you have a pretty good matchup against Vydar range and Rat-Podges that play unique heroes. If they don't have a strong hero in their army though, you really have to focus on protecting Cyprien.

[dok]

I agree 100% with what killercactus just said. 4th/10th are just not good matchups for this army. Just too many wait-then-fire attacks for Cyprien to take on.

against some melee armies, it could definitely prosper; for example, while Krug might be feared by many, if I can engage his Arrow Gruts with Cyprien and him with Shade swarms, I could hold off attacking while he weakly attacks me, and I could soul devour him eventually; I could see this army doing at least ok against an Arrow Grut/Krug army (assuming I don't risk damaging Krug prior to engaging him ;)).
Yeah, when I said "Gruts", I wasn't referring to Arrow Gruts and Krug. I agree that your army can do quite well in that matchup. I was referring to Heavy Gruts and Grimnak. That, like Minions or Knights, are very tough matchups for this army.

Where this army shines is against the rats+raelin+range armies that are fairly common. This army can leapfrog the rats, devour the heroes, and let Cyprien feast on the KMA/stingers. Since those are very common tournament armies, you will have some success with this build.

[Superm9]

Yeah, that IS this armie's one great weakness... it completely fails against the glads/blasts armies, as the glads, using their cyberclaws, can remove the best tactical advantage I have (high move plus Stealth Flying). Against 4th Mass/10th Foot though, I think that it could have a chance at winning, and against some melee armies, it could definitely prosper; for example, while Krug might be feared by many, if I can engage his Arrow Gruts with Cyprien and him with Shade swarms, I could hold off attacking while he weakly attacks me, and I could soul devour him eventually; I could see this army doing at least ok against an Arrow Grut/Krug army (assuming I don't risk damaging Krug prior to engaging him ;)).

Thanks! Keep the comments coming!

I'm not trying to rain on you because I do like the army, but against Mass, it's basically hopeless. Unless they're playing Drake II - that might give you a longshot chance. If you're gonna beat Mass, Cyprien would have to roll some amazing dice the whole game. The Shades and MW's will just get obliterated by WTF. If they have Drake, Devouring him might help some.

I think you have a pretty good matchup against Vydar range and Rat-Podges that play unique heroes. If they don't have a strong hero in their army though, you really have to focus on protecting Cyprien.

Yeah, I know that, against massed 4th Mass, this army would probably fail; but, there is a chance that Cyprien could get lucky with his Chilling Touch! ;)

Anyways, I also agree that this army would do well against unique heroes/squads (like Vydar range) and the Rat-podges. If I did have to play against a mostly-squad army though, Cyprien would definitely take the majority of my attention (and order markers), while the Shades would be more of a distraction/suicide squad primarily to distract attention away from Cyprien to increase his survivability.

I agree 100% with what killercactus just said. 4th/10th are just not good matchups for this army. Just too many wait-then-fire attacks for Cyprien to take on.

against some melee armies, it could definitely prosper; for example, while Krug might be feared by many, if I can engage his Arrow Gruts with Cyprien and him with Shade swarms, I could hold off attacking while he weakly attacks me, and I could soul devour him eventually; I could see this army doing at least ok against an Arrow Grut/Krug army (assuming I don't risk damaging Krug prior to engaging him ;)).
Yeah, when I said "Gruts", I wasn't referring to Arrow Gruts and Krug. I agree that your army can do quite well in that matchup. I was referring to Heavy Gruts and Grimnak. That, like Minions or Knights, are very tough matchups for this army.

Where this army shines is against the rats+raelin+range armies that are fairly common. This army can leapfrog the rats, devour the heroes, and let Cyprien feast on the KMA/stingers. Since those are very common tournament armies, you will have some success with this build.

Yep, sorry about that mistake with the melee vs. ranged grut armies.:oops: I agree that, with Grimnak chomping my expensive Shades and the Blades and Heavies just disengaging from my units, I would have a tough (maybe impossible) time against such an army.

--------------------------------------------------

My goal for the last 3 weeks or so has been to design a competitive army with the Shades. When I discovered that my favorite squad was ranked 'C' on the Power Rankings, I knew that I needed to come up with a competitive army that could actually place at tournaments, while having the Shades be in the forefront of the strategy. In my opinion, there are no such things as "competitive units" and "non-competitive units"; there are just "stupid-easy-to-work-into-a-competitive-army units" (Q9, Raelin, Rats, 4th Mass, Stingers (:roll:) etc.) and "much-more-difficult-to-make-work-in-a-competitive-army units" (Shades, Zombies, Deathwalkers, etc.). I loath using Q9 in my armies because, well, I know that he is good. There is no true difficulty in designing a competitive army around him. Nor around the Stingers. I read a thread a while back that basically laid out on the table all of the "good" competitive armies, all of the "ok" competitive armies, and everything else was considered "non-competitive". I believe that it was written extremely well, I just feel that it acted as if, "ok, these are the only armies that work well in a competitive setting, everything else is inferior".

:roll:

Sure, Q9 is competitive - but so are the Shades, as I demonstrated with this army. Every army has it's weak spots - Q9 armies, for example, fall to swarm armies that mob the Major while ranged units attack from afar. This Shades army does great against Raelin/rat-podges, but fails against Glads/Blasts and melee-heavy armies.

My point? Every unit can be made competitive. Yes, I will admit that there are some units that are extremely difficult to make into competitive armies (yes, DW7k and Runa are two), however they can be made into competitive armies; Runa, for example, can be made competitive through tricky use of the Utgar's Orders power of the Minions. I will probably never play an official HS tournament, however if I ever do I can assure you I will go there to have fun with the coolest, most awesome army that I've made - not the one that someone else came up with, using incredibly over-used units, in an army that has been played probably hundreds, if not thousands of times.

Another thought (about thinking): How much brainpower does it take to pick Q9 and build an army around him? Not much, especially considering the huge amount of armies you could find on this site alone that include him. How much brainpower did it take me to pick the Shades and develop them competitively? A lot more than it does to use Q9! ;) (considering I spent 3 weeks worth of free time designing and re-designing armies around them before settling on my current one).

Just some thoughts; nobody in this thread provoked this rant (and neither is this aimed at anyone in this thread :D), I just felt that, in a thread about designing a competitive army around a little-used squad, it deserved saying. So the next time someone tells you that you can't make a competitive army out of a certain unit (although the army you posted may not be competitive as a whole), just know that they're wrong.

Thank you, everyone who has read through this wall of text. The previous is only the humble opinions of a humble Heroscaper :D.

Superm9

[Elginb]

Shades x3 - 300
Braxas - 210
Deathreavers - 40
Total = 550 pts

This one is sure to strike fear into the hearts of many an army.

I consider the Shades to be excellent anti-range units, especially for stealing high ground away from your opponents' shooters. Even if their attack can't do much, their defense can tie up most ranged units for a while. If they get height, though, they're genuinely dangerous on the attack. They're also great glyph grabbers and anti-hero options.

Braxas is a great anti-squad figure, and high-defense squad figures get no extra protection against her acid breath. She's also a good anti-hero option.

The Deathreavers are just to slow down any unit getting too close to Braxas-- just enough so that she can do her magic.

[Aldin]

Superm9,

Since you know the army is weak against hordes, why spend the points on Cyprien? Doesn't it make sense to instead use a horde killer (DW8k or Brunak if you want to avoid units like Q9 or Nilfheim) of some sort? I appreciate your desire to make a competitive Shades army, but I do think it is generally best to compensate for weaknesses in units, not multiply them.

~Aldin, who kinda likes some sort of Shades/DW8k concept

[clancampbell]

I love the brunak idea Aldin. Brunak, so underused, so unloved, so misunderstood,:cry:.

Brunak 110
Shades x3 300
Rats x2 80
Isumi 10

Total 500

General specific to boot.

[Superm9]

Superm9,

Since you know the army is weak against hordes, why spend the points on Cyprien? Doesn't it make sense to instead use a horde killer (DW8k or Brunak if you want to avoid units like Q9 or Nilfheim) of some sort? I appreciate your desire to make a competitive Shades army, but I do think it is generally best to compensate for weaknesses in units, not multiply them.

~Aldin, who kinda likes some sort of Shades/DW8k concept

Ah, now there is an interesting (and intelligent ;)) statement!

To be honest, I initially considered going with a Shades/Q10 (or KA) army to be able to handle the horde issue. While this does cover more of the bases, it doesn't cover the origional base as well. In an RTS, attempting to cover too much of the map can work in your favor, or it can lead to your ultimate destruction as you are spread too thin (as a diehard Supreme Commander fan, I know ;)).

Back to Heroscape,there were several reasons why I chose Cyprien instead of Q10 or some other unit. Cyprien was the origional unit I wanted to work into an army with the Shades, partially because he was the same "theme" (I'm big on that :p), and partially because I felt he would work great in conjunction with the Shades (if, during a battle, the Shades have to pull out, Cyprien can go in, and perform much the same role as they did). They could swap back and forth, making it so the opponent couldn't focus too much time and energy on one enemy. I could mob a hero with shades for a round, forcing my opponent to move the squad figures he was going to use to attack Cyprien over to attack the Shades. Then, once he is focused entirely on the extinction of my Shades, I pull them out and switch my focus to Cyprien, using him to wreak havok on the now-abandoned OM-wise areas of my opponents army.

This flip-flop idea formed the core of my strategy concerning the Shades; I can see your point, however, that this strategy would not work against an army that had, say, 4x 4th Mass; even if 2 squads worth were attacking the Shades, there would still be 2 sqauds worth ready to attack Cyprien if he moved into their range, and I wouldn't be able to catch my opponent off-guard OM-wise.

Therefore, after your very intelligent comment (I love it when I see well-thought-out posts :D) lead me to this conclusion, I realized that I would fail very bad against swarm armies. I hadn't considered this possibility before because my HS collection is on the smaller side, with no more than 2x of any common, with many units not showing up in my collection at all. Therefore, for my personal games, the previous army would do well against the units that I own. However, this thread is about developing good, solid competitive armies, so I now know that I will have to revise my army.

I know that I wish to keep the 3x Shades (they definitely work best in that quantity), so that leaves me with 200 points left to spend. I hesitate to use DW8K, which works well in a rat-podge, but is so fragile that, against a 4th Mass-type army, he would fall relatively quickly. Then, there is Nilfhiem... He could work relatively well! I do not object to using Nilfhiem (I don't believe him to be nearly as overly tried-and-true as Q9), so I could use him, with Isamu making up my cleanup. So, that is one potential army I could try:

Nilfhiem - 185 pts.
3x Shades - 300 pts.
Isamu - 10 pts.
-------------------
495 pts.

I like the look of this army, and I believe that it could hold its own against the more swarm-like armies, with the Shades taking a more back-seat until Nilfhiem was either dead, or had cleaned up most of the squad units so the Shades could safely move around more. Against a unique-heavy army, this could still play well, using more of my origional strategy of alternating between the Shades and Cyprien (in this case, I would alternate between one squad of Shades and another, using Nilphiem to take out those targets too dangerous for the Shades to mob).

Thank you Aldin, for that post which inspired me to change my army for the better! A hearty plus-rep to you! :D

[dok]

Aldin, I agree that swapping out DW8k for Cyprien in that build does make it a bit more well-rounded. You lose a bit of ground against the KMA, but you are a lot stronger against Ashigaru, Zombies, 10th regiment, and 4th Mass. You're still in a bit of trouble against Knights, Minions, or Heavy Gruts, but no army is perfect.

Q9, Nilfheim, and Braxas also fit the bill for extreme squad killing, of course, provided you're willing to drop the Marro Warriors or play at a higher point total. Of course, all of them are also helped by adding rats, which leads you to something like Elginb's army.

[1Mmirg]

For what it is worth, Superm9, I think that your original idea of Q10 is spot on. I'd like to try, if I was going for (semi-)competitive:

Q10 - 150 pts.
3x Shades - 300 pts.
Reavers - 40 pts.
Isamu - 10 pts.
-------------------
500 pts. (if 540, then one more set of Reavers)

I agree, though, that the fun of playing Shades + Cyprien is hard to match. Good times, in a less competitive setting. Enjoy!

[Superm9]

For what it is worth, Superm9, I think that your original idea of Q10 is spot on. I'd like to try, if I was going for (semi-)competitive:

Q10 - 150 pts.
3x Shades - 300 pts.
Reavers - 40 pts.
Isamu - 10 pts.
-------------------
500 pts. (if 540, then one more set of Reavers)

I agree, though, that the fun of playing Shades + Cyprien is hard to match. Good times, in a less competitive setting. Enjoy!

That army would work well too, thanks!

[stubobj]

Superm9: I know you want to keep the 3x Shades but Id seriously think about something like:

Shades x2 - 200
KMA - 300
Nilfheim - 485
Isamu - 495

Or

Shades x 2 - 200
Braxas - 410
Rats x 2 - 490
Isamu - 500

I personally have not played the Shades yet but I would think 2 sets would be enough as long as the rest of your army compliments them. I think they may be a bit trickier to use at 2x but this way you can squeeze in more units that help compliment them.

Aldin: Hows this for a DW8k build?

Shades x 2 - 200
DW8K - 330
Rats x 2 - 410
Krav - 510
Isamu - 520

And one more because I love the Minions so much.

Shades x 2 - 200
Mininons x 2 - 420
Krav - 520

Im looking forward to getting some Shades so I can actually test these. I especially like the DW8K/Krav build.

[Elginb]

Okay, this might be more of a zombie army, but I think it would work well with Shades:

4x Zombies - 240
2x Shades - 200
1x Zetacron - 60
Total= 500

The Shades are good for holding off the ranged units while the Zombies advance, and Zetacron takes out any particularly difficult units. If I had 40 more points to work with, I'd just dump Zetacron and throw in a 3rd squad of Shades-- the Zombies' special attack is big enough to take out problem children as it is. The key point of this army is that the Shades help get the Zombies into position, and once they're there, they can be pretty devastating.

[killercactus]

Okay, this might be more of a zombie army, but I think it would work well with Shades:

4x Zombies - 240
2x Shades - 200
1x Zetacron - 60
Total= 500

The Shades are good for holding off the ranged units while the Zombies advance, and Zetacron takes out any particularly difficult units. If I had 40 more points to work with, I'd just dump Zetacron and throw in a 3rd squad of Shades-- the Zombies' special attack is big enough to take out problem children as it is. The key point of this army is that the Shades help get the Zombies into position, and once they're there, they can be pretty devastating.

Might wanna consider just dumping Zeta for another Zombie squad. Then you have great theme to go along with the good synergy, and you lose an Order Marker headache (albeit a small one).

[Elginb]

What?!? You don't think Ghosts and Ghouls would team up with a shiny white robot?

[stubobj]

I actually think Marro Warriors and a 10pt Ninja would be better. I believe the Shades and Zombies need some kind of range support. There shouldn't be an issue with OM management since you'll primarily be using Shades/Zombies with Warriors/Ninja for clean up.

[stubobj]

Shades x 2 - 200
DW8K - 330
Rats x 2 - 410
Krav - 510
Isamu - 520



Shades x 2 - 200
Mininons x 2 - 420
Krav - 520


I was reading through the thread again and realized the OP asked for 500 so lets try these again.

Shades x2 - 200
DW8k - 330
Marro Warriors - 380
Rats x 3 - 500

As I was thinking of some more armies it dawned on me that rats are actually a really good compliment to the Shades. Most counters to rats are some kind of Unique Hero with a special attack. Now your opponent must fear the Shades in order to deal with the rat swarm.

Shades x 2 - 200
Rats x 3 - 320

With the Shades and Rats as your base you can easily choose whichever ranged/special support your like.

Q9 - 180
________

Q10 - 150
Marcu - 170
Isamu - 180
________

Singers x 3 - 180
________

K.A. - 120
Marro Warriors - 170
Isamu - 180

[killercactus]

I felt like bumping this thread, because a friend of mine wants to play the Shades at NHSD, and I'd like to come up with a good army for them. The point total is 535.

I really like Raelin with them, because once they engage the enemy, they need to stay there until their next activation. Raelin helps them do that. So, if I assume Shades x2, that puts me at:

Shades x2 - 200
Raelin - 280

or

Shades x2 - 200
Raelin SotM - 320

I could see Major Q10 + Krav Maga Agents going into the first army quite nicely. They're both good squad counters and strong in general.

The second army I like either AE+Krav, or Braxas. Again, good squad counters and strong units to compliment the Shades. Thoughts?

[nyys]

I don't know, going to be tough to use Soul Devour if your worrying about keeping Raelin close by.

OM1: Move Raelin
OM2: Move Shades
OM3: Move 3 other Shades and hope some/all of the first three have a shot to Devour.

Hmmmm... I suppose Realin makes less sense with 2+ squads as opposed to just two. Maybe it's not a bad idea.

I like Braxas to fill out the army (for #2). She provides a nice big target for your opponent to stare at which may give the Shades a little more time to move into position.

As much as I like the AE, the Shades are going to be tough enough to use. Compound that with The Drop possibly not working at all... not good (IMO).

[killercactus]

I like the Krav in both armies (in theory) for the same reason I like Raelin / Krav with the Venoc Vipers. I'd plan on using the Shades the same way, and then hopefully already be in Raelin's aura after the first move. So, the game pretty much goes like this:

1) Position Raelin
2) Attack with the Krav
3) If a Soul Devour target comes in to kill the Krav, activate the Shades

The AE army probably is a bit swingy. I wonder if Brunak would work better in that army - he can Carry Raelin to a good spot early or (!) carry a Shade with him to engage a big hero. That way, you have the hero double-engaged, making him less likely to risk disengagement to move away, and the Shade is set up for Soul Devour! Plus he's good against squads!

I could see Round 1 going 1)Brunak carries Raelin 2) Shades move adjacent to Brunak 3) Brunak carries Shade to target to prepare for next round.

[dok]

I agree that the Krav are a great, relatively cheap (i.e. when compared to common squads or majors) option for dealing with ranged commons. This still leaves you with melee commons as an unresolved issue; rats would be an obvious and similarly cheap choice.

With some smallish maps in play, using Raelin with the shades does seem possible. It's going to require putting Raelin in harm's way, but nobody said playing Shades was easy.

Unfortunately, ratsx2/shadesx2/raelin/krav is 460 points leaving you a really annoying 75 points remaining. I guess the best I can manage with that is:

25 Dumutef Guard
50 Marro Warriors
100 Krav Maga Agents
80 Raelin RotV
80 rats x2
200 Shades x2
535, 24 hexes

That army has plenty of figures, and a reliable rats/range/Raelin formula to fall back on against common squad armies. As soon as someobdy steps up with a special attacking hero to try to crack your rat screen, sic 'em with the shades.

I prefer Dumutef to Marcu here because there's very few maps with glyphs at play, and you have rats to grab those anyway. So Marcu is basically relegated to endgame play. There are 8 maps with roads in the middle, though, and the Dumutef makes a nice roadblock.

While OM management can be a real headache here and this army requires a steady hand and well-executed planning to play well, I think it could do fine. You're screwed against Gruts, but who plays those? ;)

[Elginb]

Braxas - 210 pts
ShadesX3 - 300 pts
Total = 510 pts

This is a very tough army. With 4 defense, the Shades are excellent blockers, and their 7 Move and Stealth Flying allows them to assault ranged units easily. 3 sets of them almost guarantees you'll get a soul devour during a game, too, but that doesn't have to be their focus. Braxas will do her damage as per usual...

[GameBear]

I really like Raelin with them...
What about using Rats instead of Raelin?

Shades x2
Rats x3
Braxas

I see a few advantages:

1. Easier Order Marker management. I am assuming your friend is not the most experienced (since you are providing the army), so I would think Rats would be much easier to manage. The limited number of offensive army cards in this army also help to simplify order marker decisions.

2. More flexibility on offense. Rats tie down the enemy, reducing the enemy's ability to choose targets. This means your friend's units may be safer when inactive (which means switching between Shades and Braxas is a little bit safer). With Raelin, the inactive units are more vulnerable to attack, especially if they are outside her aura.

3. Limited Shades handicap. Raelin is the most frequently used hero, and in some armies is the only hero. Including Raelin (either one) in the Shades army means the Shades cannot try to Soul Devour an enemy Raelin, significantly reducing the Shades' threat. This may be the most compelling reason to choose Rats over Raelin.

Thoughts?

[killercactus]

3. Limited Shades handicap. Raelin is the most frequently used hero, and in some armies is the only hero. Including Raelin (either one) in the Shades army means the Shades cannot try to Soul Devour an enemy Raelin, significantly reducing the Shades' threat. This may be the most compelling reason to choose Rats over Raelin.

Thoughts?

That's an interesting point. Raelin is still present in many squad-filled armies and may be the only target. Hmmm....

And no, my friend isn't a very skilled player. The problem is that (at least IMO) the Rats are harder to play than Raelin is. They also don't stop the Shades from getting killed before a Devour chance, though they do help to discourage disengagement. I'll ponder that.

[Messenger]

What about using Rats instead of Raelin?

Shades x2
Rats x3
Braxas

I see a few advantages:

1. Easier Order Marker management. I am assuming your friend is not the most experienced (since you are providing the army), so I would think Rats would be much easier to manage. The limited number of offensive army cards in this army also help to simplify order marker decisions.

2. More flexibility on offense. Rats tie down the enemy, reducing the enemy's ability to choose targets. This means your friend's units may be safer when inactive (which means switching between Shades and Braxas is a little bit safer). With Raelin, the inactive units are more vulnerable to attack, especially if they are outside her aura.

3. Limited Shades handicap. Raelin is the most frequently used hero, and in some armies is the only hero. Including Raelin (either one) in the Shades army means the Shades cannot try to Soul Devour an enemy Raelin, significantly reducing the Shades' threat. This may be the most compelling reason to choose Rats over Raelin.

Thoughts?...all that, and he's a pretty good map-maker, too.

I think you've hit on the best reasons to use rats. I would add another, but with a slightly different army configuration:

200 Shades x2
120 Deathreavers x3
110 Airborne Elite
100 Krav

4. A rat-clogged map buys time for your AE to drop. Not to mention the Krav have a screen to shoot over.

[dok]

200 Shades x2
120 Deathreavers x3
110 Airborne Elite
100 Krav
Note: 25 hexes, so you have to drop a rat.

Still, Gamebear's argument about devouring Raelin takes the cake, for me. By leaving Raelin out, not only do you free up another 80 points for rats/range, but you turn the shades into a soft counter to Raelin.

You can make a good argument for either Krav/AE or Braxas, but I like going with Krav/AE. Since shades are your soft counter to Raelin, Braxas is a bit redundant there. Also, going with Krav/AE means you can devour an opposing Braxas (wait for Braxas to have no OMs, or round 3 and a possible initiative switch, though - she can melt through shades at an alarming rate).

[GameBear]

Also, going with Krav/AE means you can devour an opposing Braxas (wait for Braxas to have no OMs, or round 3 and a possible initiative switch, though - she can melt through shades at an alarming rate).
Yeah, Braxas seems like a pretty horrible match-up for Shades (barring some sub-optimal play by the Braxas player). That initiative switch would be crucial.

[killercactus]

I like the AE with Rats as well, but Brunak might also fit well here to provide a Special Attack, some Braxas protection and to exploit that mad Carry-t3ch I came up with a couple of posts back. It would also be awesome to Carry a Shade up to Raelin, Devour her on the next turn, and then Carry her away with Brunak. That's one thing that gets me about the Shades - they love to Devour on OM#1, but then if they're successful, that Hero is left out to dry.

Plus he keeps it under the hex limit, and it's doubtful you'll run into another army fielding Brunak. My friend is a big Brunak fan too for some reason....

I wonder if I can teach him to play Rats in time.... probably not.

Brunak - 110
Krav Maga Agents - 210
Shades x2 - 410
Rats x3 - 530, 23 hexes

[killercactus]

Well, my friend keeps saying he wants to play a "Halloween Army" including the Shades. I guess I could see something like this:

Shades of Bleakwoode x2 - 200
Anubian Wolves x3 - 425
Brunak / Krav + Isamu - 535

or

Shades of Bleakwoode x2 - 200
Anubian Wolves x2 - 350
Zelrig - 535

You don't have to worry too much about missing out on a Devour of Zelrig. Plus, the Wolves and Shades are great hero counters - Zelrig seems to make sense.

EDIT: He's settled on this, which I think is OK:

Cyprien - 150
Sonya - 195
Shades of Bleakewoode - 295
Stingers x4 - 535

Uses the Shades as glyph grabbers or as a strike force against a particular hero. Cyprien and the Stingers give the army a nice backbone.